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Tony Blair has seen to it that only criminals have the guns

Death of a Teenage Father Highlights the Plight of Britain's Gun

Generation

Terri Judd and Ian Herbert, Independent (London), 9/2005

Ramone Cumberbatch, a proud teenage father, had been seen regularly

pushing his new son's pram near his home.

But on Tuesday, the day before his 19th birthday, a gunman turned up at

his house in a leafy Manchester avenue and shot him dead.

Yesterday, police released a picture of the young man neighbours

described as "one of the nicest boys you could meet" cradling

three-month-old Amarno, as they appealed for help in tracing his

killers. Officers are investigating whether his death in Chorlton is

linked to a multiple shooting last week, after which a 16-year-old was

detained.

The murder of Mr Cumberbatch provides the latest tragic evidence that

young people are now at the heart of gun crime in Britain. Research and

interviews carried out by The Independent reveal that schoolchildren

are increasingly carrying weapons that give a lethal dimension to

fights that break out over items as trivial as PlayStations.

Youth workers estimate that as many as 80 per cent of youngsters from

tough inner-city areas are involved in gangs. Three fifths of those

have guns.

"People get killed over stupid stuff. Because I scratch your car and I

don't want to pay for it. I know people of 14 who have their first gun.

It is a fashion accessory," said one south London teenager yesterday.

For those with the right contacts, firearms are readily available and

sub machine guns are the current preferred weapon. "They are easy to

get hold of. It is as simple as someone older asking you to hold on to

it," explained the teenager.

A third of those convicted of possessing guns are now under 18, with

campaigners revealing that children as young as 11 are wielding

firearms-whether imitation or real.

One of the country's foremost experts in the field, the head of

Scotland Yard's Operation Trident, a special unit to combat

black-on-black gun crime in London, has revealed that the most common

age of suspects and victims he now dealt with was just 19.

Detective Chief Superintendent John Coles explained that when the unit

was launched six years ago, most of the perpetrators were in their

twenties. Now the age range is 17 to 25.

Det Chief Supt Coles explained that the youngest offenders were just 14

and referred to a recent case when a gun fight broke out in south-east

London between teenagers over a game console. "That was one of the most

ridiculous things I had heard, a disrespect issue over a PlayStation,"

he said.

Just weeks ago, a 14-year-old and a 16-year-old were charged with

shooting Zainab Kalokoh, 33, dead in front of guests at a christening

party in Peckham, south London.

In the first eight months of this year, Trident charged nine young

people in connection with shooting incidents, whereas there was only

one such case in the same period last year.

Today, the Metropolitan Police and its partners in the community are

trying to educate children as young as seven as to the dangers of guns.

"The 19-year-olds of today are the group who were about 13 or 14 when

we started and didn't receive that kind of attention. They are now

emerging as the new generation committing these crimes because they

have not had that attention either operationally or in terms of

intervention," Det Chief Supt Coles said.

He blamed underlying social issues, such as lack of education and

dysfunctional families, as well as the availability of guns coming in

from former conflict zones. Whereas once, organised criminals used

firearms specifically and temporarily for a crime, now they are often

carried routinely and fights which might once have been settled with

fists are with handguns.

"Kids see it as normal life. They carry the guns mainly for machismo

and power. They fear if they have not got a gun they will get shot.

They get into disrespect issues and they fire the gun.

"They want everything fast, the cars, the ladies. They think 'I am only

going to live to 25 so I might as well have it now'. There are

thousands in circulation. In the past two weeks we have seized three or

four Mac-10s [machine pistols]."

Pastor Nims Obunge, of the Haringey Peace Alliance, agreed: "It seems

the ages are getting younger. I know of a girl of 11 who used an

imitation gun to rob somebody of £5. I also heard of a youth worker who

confronted a young boy and got shot in the foot. That is not the norm,

but it shows that if a young person feels disrespect they will take it

out on you."

He agreed that many vulnerable teenagers he dealt with considered it

normal to carry a gun or a knife. They told him they felt "untouchable"

with a weapon, a sign of the underlying fear behind the practice.

"I was speaking to young people a few days ago. Whereas we think it is

sensational [for them to be carrying guns], they do not. It is their

reality," he said.

Ishmahil Blagrove, a documentary maker who has worked with gangs,

blamed a breakdown of family values and a culture of greed dating back

to the Thatcher era. The 35-year-old said: "When I was growing up, if

you were a teacher or worked in a bank you earned respect. No one wants

to grow up and work in a bank or be a teacher now."

In June, the Government announced that it would be clamping down on the

availability of imitation firearms under the Violent Crime Reduction

Bill.

Det Chief Supt Coles is convinced of the need to continue fighting the

spread of all guns-imitation or real: "We have to keep going otherwise

there will be mayhem on the streets."

posted by pearl harbor

Tony Blair has seen to it that only criminals have the guns


Bollocks!

Oh...but, gee whiz....I thought there was a gun ban over there? Gosh, I'm so confused.

Since there's a gun ban, doesn't that mean there should be no guns? Well, no legal guns, anyway.... :yh_eyerol

Pearl Harbor wrote: Ishmahil Blagrove, a documentary maker who has worked with gangs, blamed a breakdown of family values and a culture of greed dating back to the Thatcher era. The 35-year-old said: "When I was growing up, if you were a teacher or worked in a bank you earned respect. No one wants to grow up and work in a bank or be a teacher now."
Someone knowledgeable can argue about Thatcher. If the problem is family values, and I believe it very well may be, is there a way to reinstate such values? Would it not take at least a generation of concentrated effort?

Have to agree with GMC and this as an ex firearms owner (legally Held).

The big unsaid truth is that the highest number of killings is among black gang members, a large part of whose culture is copied straight from Compton and elsewhere. It's always said that we are 10 years behind the USA in these matters and sure enough crack is now becoming very widespread.

The one thing the gun ban did was reduce the number available to steal although if you know who to talk to they are not that difficult to buy.

It's the willingness to use them that is scary.

Abbey may have an input here as I know Manchester has had more than it's fair share of shootings for it's relative size.

As usual whilst it's quoted that a lot of the shootings are for minor "disrespect" I would put my mortgage on the basis being drugs. One day we may wake up to the fact that drugs are the blight of our age.

Blaming Margaret Thatcher is absolute bollocks, although the "I want" society part is true she did not create that. It works like this if you want a pair of £100 nike trainers dont earn the money, go and steal it. That has nothing to do with MT. These "Vunerable" youths with no job no money etc live in acountry where unemplyment has never been lower, the job centre boards are full of jobs, a lot of these jobs are considered too menial for these little darlings, I mean what cred have got sweeping up at McDonalds when you can deal a few rocks and be a name.

Which, of course brings up a whole other thread subject.



The prohibition of anything doesn't stop the thing, but simply relieves any obligation to common business courtesy and safety rules.

The statistics speak for themselves, although the talking heads at the top do all in their power to keep them from being general knowledge.. be it the USA, the UK, Japan etc...



Prohibition of fireams of the LAW ABIDING (that's the key here folks !) does nothing to stop crime of any kind, in any form, using ANY type of weapon.. all it does is create MORE food (law abidiing defenseless citizesn) for the criminal type predatory animal.

Research your history and you will see what happens when you disarm the total of the law abiding.. they not only fall prey to the crims, but an unchecked

government as well..... lambs to the slaughter !

I would like someone, anyone to cite me once instance, one city or country where the law abiding civilian population was disarmed where the criminal element DID NOT obtain firearms (illegally) for their own use ....

tick tock, tick tock... count down is on... answers "?

We have legal guns in our house.......in the US

If someone breaks into a house in England and not only wants to steal but do harm to the people - and the owner of that house has a gun - and protects his/herself - they will be in more legal trouble than the person committing the crime????

What action they take is what determines how much trouble they will be in. You have always and still are allowed to use "Reasonable" force to protect you and yours.

It has been said many times in discussions on FG but there is a huge difference between the UK and USA on this. The right to bear arms is a constitutional right in America, it is not here and never will be. From what I read the two opposing camps in the USA debate endlessly whether the need for a well armed militia ststed by the framers of the constitution still holds water today. We have never had that, we do not even have a written constitution.

I will try and ask one question that I would like my American friends to have a stab at.

I got these figure from a study at Wharton School in the USA

USA population = 275 Million

Gun Homicides = 10,801

EU population = 376 Million

Gun Homicides = 1,260

The major difference being the availability of firearms, how can this be explained?

I feel I should state my personal position, I was the legal holder of a firearms certificate and shot a few rounds here and ther when I was in the army so I have no particular beef against anyone owning guns as long as they are considerably harder to obtain legally than they were.