ForumGarden

Am I the only one that gets a bit confused over my country's foreign policy?

It's OK that France, England, the Soviet Union and Israel have atomic weapons. but we get in a huff over the possibility that Iran and North Korea may develop them. Is that because we deem France, England, the Soviet Union and Israel to be friendly towards us, and the others unfriendly and perhaps unstable. I think that we shouldn't object to their developing atomic weapons or energy of any kind. We have a huge amount of weaponry stockpiled. If they use atomic weapons against a neighbor or us, then nuke em out of existence, but don't get iinto a land war, try to change regimes and use military force before hand.

We abhor military dictatorships as long as there is nothing that we need or want from the regime, but we tolerate others where we benefit by the relationship. We tolerate or ignore genocidal killings in Cambodia and Rwanda and have the Kurdish massacres at the hands of Saddam a newsworthy item. Let's see now, were the Serbs our friends, or was it the Croats? Lot's of atrocities going on back then.

And still, I am pro American and support my country and have no problem with them doing what is in the best interest of the country. I just find that BEST INTEREST a bit confusing at times.

I think Clint it's just the reality of modern politics, the shifting of alliances and emnities, it's gone on since the beginning of time. I agree with you that the way we (and I include the UK) pick and choose what behaviour to be outraged at makes me feel a little grubby at times. I always come back to Rwanda, I mean 800,000 people were killed there, most of them hacked to death, men, women and children and we did absolutely nothing.

It's only 20 years ago that Saddam was our new best friend, I suppose the only thing the ordinary man in the street can do is excercise their democratic right to vote and see if anything changes, which I doubt.

This may seem a bit anti american. But trust me it is not. I support our country and would not choose to live anywhere else, furthermore my husband is in Iraq as i write this.

The united states as a whole lives on the flash of gore and violence. We pick and choose where to go based on the boredom of the country. The more people out of work and underpaid, the faster we create our enemies. In the past 30 years every conflict that the US has been in has been against a group that we put into power. One that we helped organize and possibly helped over throw the past government that was in place.

We as a whole are the new roman empire. We have our games that we watch on the television to sooth the heavy hearts of the masses and new campeigns to weed out the morally unjust (as we see it at the moment). As we sweep across the earth no one says anything just as no one could say anything to rome



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Just some food for thought-- swollow it or dont thats up to you.

Scrat wrote: Very close to the mark TG. Like the Roman Empire it is them against us, them being anyone who dare not do as we say or dare to stand up to us. I am sickened by the foreign policies we have, a good example is the Orange revolution in the Ukraine. It is a disaster to rival some of the worst of the plans by any "dictator" yet.

Anyone ever hear about the ''Project for the New American Century?


I have not heard of this?? What is it?? anything like the un"patriot" act? LOL

posted by tennesee girl

This may seem a bit anti american. But trust me it is not. I support our country and would not choose to live anywhere else, furthermore my husband is in Iraq as i write this.


One of the bizarre things I find about this forum is the number of times Americans, or non-americans come to that, criticising the US Govt are called anti-american irrespective of whether they are making a valid point or not and with no attempt to counter the point raised, as if calling someone anti-american ends the arguement as not being worthy.

Like in the above, you start off by almost apologising for being critical. "This may seem anti-american.

Why? It's a free country why do you hesitate to say what you think.

I'm British, If I criticise our government policy in Iraq no one in the UK would accuse me of being anti British. Nor do you get you are supporting terrorists or you do not support our troops. No politician would dare say that of anyone opposed to the war, at least in public, as it is so patently ridiculous. Even at the height of the IRA attacks pointing out flaws in Govt policy did not lead to that kind of accusation.

Just curious, you do tend to get the impression that opposition to the war in Iraq in America is viewed as unpatriotic with no real thought given as to how to fight a war against terrorism beyond wanting to shoot somebody.

posted by scrat

Very close to the mark TG. Like the Roman Empire it is them against us, them being anyone who dare not do as we say or dare to stand up to us. I am sickened by the foreign policies we have, a good example is the Orange revolution in the Ukraine. It is a disaster to rival some of the worst of the plans by any "dictator" yet.




So you are saying it is a bad thing? Democracy is a flawed system of government that needs to change all the time to survive. But it is never as bad as the results of those who think they know best getting control, democracy screws up some of the tome and sorts itself out, dictatorships screw up inevitable and can ponly be fixed by ending it.

gmc wrote: [...]

Just curious, you do tend to get the impression that opposition to the war in Iraq in America is viewed as unpatriotic with no real thought given as to how to fight a war against terrorism beyond wanting to shoot somebody.

[...]
It's part of the US culture, thanks to our one political party under two names, that "yer either for us or agin us." Yes, disagreement is seen as opposition in it's strictest definition. T-girl is new to the Garden, so has to soften the leading edge of her statement to avoid getting drawn and quartered. People are currently very docile here, so it may not be necessary, but again, she's new. Sorry if I stole your thunder, T-girl.

arnold layne

There has been widespread condemnation of the governments decision to go to war in Iraq. Quite vehement and angry at times but never seen as anti-British. Whatever ones stance on the war in Iraq, doesnt stop us from supporting the boys once they are there


More to the point I don't think anyone would dare suggest that opposition to the war means you don't support the troops. Bring back spitting image, it would be compulsive viewing just now.

Accountable wrote: It's part of the US culture, thanks to our one political party under two names, that "yer either for us or agin us." Yes, disagreement is seen as opposition in it's strictest definition. T-girl is new to the Garden, so has to soften the leading edge of her statement to avoid getting drawn and quartered. People are currently very docile here, so it may not be necessary, but again, she's new. Sorry if I stole your thunder, T-girl.


Yeah what he said!!! LMAO

In responce to the question though-- to regurgitate what has already been said-- In the united states it is very much a for us or against us-- especially with things like the patriot act in place and the current state of the union i rather not be all out balsy and abrasive. I do not believe that --as much as we are-- we are a truley free country. there are many people who will seek to stifle a criticism on the goings on of the government. I just chose to cut those people off ahead of time by saying that i am not anti american. There are things that i would change given the proper financial resources, however i would not choose any other country to live in.

Also i did not want to be part of the bush hating bandwaggon as i call them. those people who trash the blessings that being an american has. the people who hate it here but have no earthly clue what it would be like if they lived in another country--

gmc wrote: arnold layne



More to the point I don't think anyone would dare suggest that opposition to the war means you don't support the troops. Bring back spitting image, it would be compulsive viewing just now.


often times they do.. Alot of people here (living next to an army instillation) believe if you dont support our commander in cheif and the decisions that he makes then you dont support the people who enforce those decisions. I would not dare to go onto fort campbell and say that the war on iraq is unjust and should not have happened.

The other day people actually protested the war by going to a soldiers funeral and protesting it there. PROTESTING AT A SOLDIERS FUNERAL! i would say deffinatly without a doubt that those a$$ holes do not support our troops. with out a doubt!

ArnoldLayne wrote: More to the point I don't think anyone would dare suggest that opposition to the war means you don't support the troops. Bring back spitting image, it would be compulsive viewing just now.




Bringing back Spitting Image should be a national prority. Nothing like cruel, biting satire to show the government just how the public were thinking. Also one of the funniest programmes, before or since.


A Spitting Image revival would be fantastic Arnold. I suspect the 'Politically Correct' brigade would put a stop to it though....sad world ! I think all the puppets have been sold off and the guy who made the puppets has vowed NEVER to make another.

posted by bez

A Spitting Image revival would be fantastic Arnold. I suspect the 'Politically Correct' brigade would put a stop to it though....sad world ! I think all the puppets have been sold off and the guy who made the puppets has vowed NEVER to make another.




Not so much the PC crowd as labour spin doctors who don't think anyone should take the **** out of politicians any more-bad for the image don't you know. It's a bad thing when politicians start believing people shouldn't question them but just do what they are told. The mad maggie puppet was hilarious-I always reckon when that appeared she was on her way out. Wonder what TB's would look like?

posted by tennesee girl

often times they do.. Alot of people here (living next to an army instillation) believe if you dont support our commander in cheif and the decisions that he makes then you dont support the people who enforce those decisions. I would not dare to go onto fort campbell and say that the war on iraq is unjust and should not have happened.


Is that kind of blind patriotism really that prevalent?

The other day people actually protested the war by going to a soldiers funeral and protesting it there. PROTESTING AT A SOLDIERS FUNERAL! i would say deffinatly without a doubt that those a$$ holes do not support our troops. with out a doubt!


Must admit I find that fairly appalling behaviour as well. You obviously hav your loony left as well.

posted by arnoldlayne

gmc, I watched Jack Straw on Newsnight last night in front of a small invited audience. Jeremy Paxman doesnt take prisoners. I like his style of interviewing , much like Robin Day. I like the complete lack of respect for his office unlike some sycophantic interviewers.

Handled himself reasonably well though


He probably had the labour bouncers remove all the old age pensioners beforehand in case they heckled him again:yh_laugh

Chance for a new t shirt slogan campaign there-"arrest me I'm a pensioner" or "OAP ready to do time any time" "Hitler didn't frighten me labour can't either""

As you say Arnold.....priceless