ForumGarden

Does the Koran command that you love your neighbor as yourself like the Bible does? Where can I find it if it does?

Clint wrote: Does the Koran command that you love your neighbor as yourself like the Bible does? Where can I find it if it does?
I haven't spent much (ok, ANY) time studying the koran, but if I had to guess, I'd say there is no where in it that states anything even remotely resembling "neighborly love."

Just a guess, of course, based on what little I know it DOES teach...

I recently got my free quran from freequran.org (yes, it's real). I doesn't have a concordance or index or anything, so It's hard to research.



I think there is an electronic quran online somewhere.

5 Pillars of Islam talk about alms, taking care of others less fortunate then you. Now it depends on the person, whether this consists of unselfish love or duty.

http://www.carm.org/islam/faith_five_pillars.htm

Here are some electronic versions at Project Gutenberg

http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/world/results

Clint wrote: Does the Koran command that you love your neighbor as yourself like the Bible does? Where can I find it if it does?


You can find it in the text if you choose to read a copy.

Fletch wrote: You can find it in the text if you choose to read a copy.
My copy's in my hand, Fletch. Can you be just a touch more specific?

Good grief!

If it was as easy as saying, "Yeah page 28, column 2, line 4, word 3"...I would!

Take your time to read it and you'll see there is more peace offering in there than the news would have you believe.

It's like asking where in the Bible does it say not to slaughter a million Saracens in a two crusade.

It doesn't does it. But there is still a message of peace throughout the bible.

Same qoes for the Qu'ran.

Fletch wrote: Good grief!

If it was as easy as saying, "Yeah page 28, column 2, line 4, word 3"...I would!



Take your time to read it and you'll see there is more peace offering in there than the news would have you believe.



It's like asking where in the Bible does it say not to slaughter a million Saracens in a two crusade.

It doesn't does it. But there is still a message of peace throughout the bible.



Same qoes for the Qu'ran.
Deep cleansing breath, Fletch. The Bible, as you know, has a the life rules in that nice little top ten list. I, and I assume Clint, was hoping for something similar in the Qu'ran.

Aaahhh the Commandments that need to be put in the preface.

Des the Hindu book, The Geeta have that in the preface?

I don't think the Qu'ran does have that, but then any book should be read cover to cover.

A lot of people flick through the bible and miss all the bits inbetween.

Personally, I care little for religion, but if it makes people happy, who am I to say otherwise!

I think I'm more interested in human motivations more than religion per se. That's my motivation: motivation.

Nice!

I think people who lack the courage of their convictions need to find solace in some kind of book.

If that's the case, I'm worshiping at the altar of The Lion, The Witch & The Wardrobe.

That way, when a preacher grabs me and starts quoting from the Bible or Qu'ran, I can take a step back, point a finger and say "Ah but Mr Tumnus did say unto Lucy, daughter of Eve, that she should go back to where she came from and out of Narnia as her kind weren't wanted there."

It is sad that many hear the words of hate spoken by a few who use the Koran as a soap box..and the words of so many who preach love, honour, tolerance and acceptance are ignored..

Like Fletch said if you want to read a book, don't go for the footnotes read the whole thing.

Nice quote Fletch, how many will see the message...

Ah, Fletch, the undertones of the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe are Christian, who do you think Aslan is?

Aslan is actually the Turkish word for Lion.

In fact, a lot of the books are made up from Asian or what you guys called East Indian myths etc.

Many of the names throughout, are also taken from Arabic or eastern words.

Shasta, Bree, Aravis, Thakur, Vizier, Aslan, Tash etc.

It's a dichotomy really considering C.S Lewis' university friend and fellow Club member was J.R.R.Tolkien who was brought up in the confines of church and state unlike Lewis.

Clint wrote: Does the Koran command that you love your neighbor as yourself like the Bible does? Where can I find it if it does?


The Koran commands and promotes what you see happen all over the world. Muslims are not kind and loving to one another, and they certainly are not kind and loving toward the kaffir/infidel, which is what you are.

A recent conversation with a Muslim revealed that he would kill his children if they'd show any signs of leaving Islam. Then he denied it, only to reiterate the same a few posts later. What would he do to his neighbor? Why, the same thing, of course.

Muslims are encouraged to lie as a means to an end. It doesn't matter what you read in the Koran, the Muslim will deny what it says and he'll swear up and down it means something else. Has'nt that happened to you yet?

From "Lying in Islam"

By Abdullah Al Araby

Like most religions, Islam in general, forbids lying. The Quran says, "Truly Allah guides not one who transgresses and lies." Surah 40:28. In the Hadith, Mohammed was also quoted as saying, "Be honest because honesty leads to goodness, and goodness leads to Paradise. Beware of falsehood because it leads to immorality, and immorality leads to Hell."

However, unlike most religions, within Islam there are certain provisions under which lying is not simply tolerated, but actually encouraged. The book "The spirit of Islam," by the Muslim scholar, Afif A. Tabbarah was written to promote Islam. On page 247, Tabbarah stated: "Lying is not always bad, to be sure; there are times when telling a lie is more profitable and better for the general welfare, and for the settlement of conciliation among people, than telling the truth. To this effect, the Prophet says: 'He is not a false person who (through lies) settles conciliation among people, supports good or says what is good."

Etc.

venus wrote: It is sad that many hear the words of hate spoken by a few who use the Koran as a soap box..and the words of so many who preach love, honour, tolerance and acceptance are ignored..

Like Fletch said if you want to read a book, don't go for the footnotes read the whole thing.

Nice quote Fletch, how many will see the message...


They use the Koran for a soapbox because it qualifies for use to instruct the terrorist, or he would not do it. Those who preach other than the Koran preaches??????, are awesomely faint. I'd like to see a general uprising by those who insist that Islam is peace. You know, the kind that happened over those cartoons.

Fletch wrote: Nice!

I think people who lack the courage of their convictions need to find solace in some kind of book.

If that's the case, I'm worshiping at the altar of The Lion, The Witch & The Wardrobe.

That way, when a preacher grabs me and starts quoting from the Bible or Qu'ran, I can take a step back, point a finger and say "Ah but Mr Tumnus did say unto Lucy, daughter of Eve, that she should go back to where she came from and out of Narnia as her kind weren't wanted there."


Lewis was a deeply religious man and a fantasist. The book is not promoted as a replacement for scripture, but an incentive for children of all ages to search out the real thing.

The book promotes the eventual victory of good over evil. It is what we want, yes?

Accountable wrote: I recently got my free quran from freequran.org (yes, it's real). I doesn't have a concordance or index or anything, so It's hard to research.



I think there is an electronic quran online somewhere.


You can get a full 22 hour audio download from .. Audiobooksforfree.com

It's interesting..

Well, it's been a year today. I assume a year is long enough to wait for an answer before you conclude it is at the least, illusive.

Clint;102326 wrote: Does the Koran command that you love your neighbor as yourself like the Bible does? Where can I find it if it does?


Just A Though Do You Follow The Bible To The Letter Because It Say Thou Shall Not Kill . Funny How People Can Quote The Scriptures Be It The Qur'aan / Bible Etc But Never Follow It To The Letter Hummmmmmmmm.

What's the Aramaic word for letter?

Daniyal;909115 wrote: Just A Though Do You Follow The Bible To The Letter Because It Say Thou Shall Not Kill . Funny How People Can Quote The Scriptures Be It The Qur'aan / Bible Etc But Never Follow It To The Letter Hummmmmmmmm.


Sheesh, all I did was ask a question.:wah:

Clint;909196 wrote: Sheesh, all I did was ask a question.:wah:




Sorry Just Making A Statement Wasn't meant As An Insult Forgive Me This Time Ok

Daniyal;909243 wrote: Sorry Just Making A Statement Wasn't meant As An Insult Forgive Me This Time Ok


All is cool...no problem.

BabyRider;102367 wrote: I haven't spent much (ok, ANY) time studying the koran, but if I had to guess, I'd say there is no where in it that states anything even remotely resembling "neighborly love."

Just a guess, of course, based on what little I know it DOES teach...




Fighting In Self Defense Holy Qur'aan 2 ; 190 - 196

Textual analysis reveals that nowhere in the Koran is there an expression of the Golden Rule…therefore, it is of no importance in Islam and Muslims have no reason to observe it. Since Islam's most important message to humanity (the Noble Koran) does not contain the Golden Rule, it is logical that it was unimportant to Allah. This explains why he entirely omitted it from the Koran. The Golden Rule is held to be central by all religions except Islam. Muslims are surprised to learn their faith does not teach it. There religion teaches dualist ethics, not the unitary, universal Golden Rule.

There is however, a very restricted version of the principle of reciprocity found in the Hadiths. The Hadiths are a non-binding collection of sayings and acts of Mohammed and his companions. They have much less authority than the Koran, but contain a version of the Golden Rule which applies only among "brother" Muslims. This Islamic "brotherhood rule" is not universal and does not apply to non-Muslims.

Islamic reciprocity is restricted to interactions between Muslim "brothers". (An infidel is not to be addressed as "brother" by a Muslim.)

The Hadith quotes Mohammed as saying: "None of you believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself." (Number 13 of Imam al-Nawawi's "Forty Hadiths.)

Other Hadiths clarify the limitation of reciprocity to relations between Muslim brothers:

Bukhari 9,85,83 Mohammed said: "A Muslim is a brother to other Muslims. He should never oppress them nor should he facilitate their oppression." (Note: but he may oppress infidels)

Bukhari 8,73,70 Mohammed said: "Harming a Muslim is an evil act; killing a Muslim means rejecting Allah." (Note: but harming or killing an infidel is a mere misdemeanour.)

Finally, the Koran itself makes it perfectly clear that brotherhood applies only towards other Muslims: (Koran 48:29) : "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are harsh against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other."

Such a standard is no higher than that of the mafia or another similar “crime family”. Islam does teach this, and there is the proof of it.

Islam divides the entire world into Islam and the Kafirs (unbelievers) and has two separate sets of ethics for each sphere. The words “kafir” (a disgusting subhuman) and the “jihad” a permanent holy war against the “kafirs” are central doctrines of Islam that completely cancel a universal Golden Rule. Islam’s ethical system is dualistic and opportunistic. “Good” is what is helps Islam grow and “bad” is whatever resists the growth of Islam.

Almighty Allah thought so little of the Golden Rule, that he entirely excluded it from his most important message to humanity, the Noble Koran. However, he did not forget to include 164 commandments to make permanent war on the non-Moslems, 14 commandments not to befriend them, and many verses expressing how to abuse them in various ways. Approximately 61% of the Koran is an argument that the kufaar are evil for disagreeing with Mohammed and should be treated violently. It is to be emphasized that Islamic jurisprudence rules that all “gentle” verses (regarding kufaar) in the Koran have been annulled by later “harsher” ones. The Koran thus entirely rules out a universal, unitary code of ethics expressed in the Golden Rule. Kufaar are to be killed, decapitated, mutilated, plundered, enslaved, raped, lied to, as required, opportunistically to support the growth of political Islam. Thus, any Hadith that expresses the Golden Rule must be an invalid and/or fabricated one, since it contradicts both the letter and the spirit of Allah’s entirely perfect message, the Koran. Furthermore, the Koran is alleged to be letter-perfect and cannot be changed or added to. Moslems who try to insert the Golden Rule into Allah’s perfect religion commit the sin of innovation (bid’a) and deserve capital punishment under Islamic law. The Fallacy of Conflicting Conditions is a contradiction which rules the Golden Rule null and void in Islam.:-5

Much misinformation can be pruned away by applying the Fallacy of Conflicting Conditions and analysing the statistical frequency of themes in the Koran.