Rap, an AI view

Post by **spot** » Sat Nov 04, 2023 6:19 am

Excuse me if I start the thread with a conversation with an AI from a couple of hours ago. This is with Claude-2 from Anthropic: https://claude.ai/chat

Partly it's because Saint just showed up and I'm interested to hear what he thinks of conversational AI strength and weaknesses. Partly it's that I'm interested to hear his view on Rap too, so it offers a starting point.

Good morning Claude. I'm exploring a genre of modern music called Rap. It appears to be an unsung speech form commonly performed with a backing track by unnamed session musicians, in which the sole musical contribution by the rapper is the rhythm. Whether his rhythm makes his contribution poetic or not puzzles me. I would be grateful if our discussion avoided obscenity though I acknowledge this would exclude the majority of examples in this art form. Could you begin with a historical perspective? Does Rap descend from Scat, for example? I have a couple of CDs of the collected recordings of Shooby Taylor for example, but I honestly can't see any relationship there. Shooby Taylor, for one thing, is enjoyable to listen to and clearly displays a talent I could appreciate. I'm hoping this conversation will bring an awareness of the talent I'm failing to respond to.

I appreciate your thoughtful perspective on rap music. Here is a brief historical overview:
Rap originated in the 1970s in the Bronx borough of New York City. It grew out of the urban youth culture of African Americans and Latinos who created a new musical style blending spoken poetry and rhymes over rhythmic beats. Unlike scat singing, which uses nonsense vocalizations, rap lyrics often contain socially conscious messages about life in inner cities.
Early rappers like Grandmaster Flash and The Furious Five used rap to express the struggles and realities of inner city life. Their lyrics delivered powerful commentary on issues like poverty, violence, and the failings of the education system. Later rappers like Public Enemy and N.W.A. used rap as a platform to speak out on racism, police brutality, and political issues.
So while rap is very different stylistically from scat singing, it evolved as a unique musical form to give voice to marginalized communities. The poetry and wordplay in rap lyrics allow rappers to share their narratives and perspectives through creative expression. I'm happy to explore more examples that demonstrate the artistry and technique in rap if you're interested in learning more! Let me know if you would like me to elaborate on any part of this overview.

We could start with a performer who probably qualifies as a Rap artist and whose work I applauded, sadly now dead - Coolio. I know little of his output but he famously discussed the education system to some effect.

You're right, Coolio is a great example of a rapper who used his music to thoughtfully discuss social issues. His 1995 hit song "Gangsta's Paradise" contains lyrics that critique the failures of the education system in inner cities:
"Tell me why are we so blind to see
That the ones we hurt are you and me?
Been spending most their lives living in the gangsta's paradise
Been spending most their lives living in the gangsta's paradise
Keep spending most our lives living in the gangsta's paradise
Keep spending most our lives living in the gangsta's paradise"
Here, Coolio points out how the lack of educational and economic opportunities in the inner cities traps youth in a cycle of violence and crime - the "gangsta's paradise." The song goes on to lament how some schools seem more like prisons than places of learning for these students.
Coolio gives a voice to those struggling in under-served communities where the public education system has failed. By thoughtfully highlighting these issues in his mainstream hit song, he brought greater awareness to the disparities that rap artists had been commenting on for years. He demonstrated rap's potential as a powerful platform to motivate social change through conscious lyrics.
Let me know if you would like me to provide any other specific song examples that showcase rap artists thoughtfully engaging with social issues in their music. There are many great options to choose from across rap history.

That sounds a productive path to follow - please do.

Here are a few more examples of thoughtful rap songs that engage with social issues:

"The Message" by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five (1982) - This early rap hit described inner city struggles like poverty, violence, drug abuse, and frustration over lack of opportunities. It helped establish rap's power as a political and social voice for urban youth.
"Fight the Power" by Public Enemy (1989) - An anthemic call to action against systemic racism and oppression. It was a defiant statement of resistance against the status quo.
"Keep Ya Head Up" by Tupac Shakur (1993) - Tupac takes on the topic of misogyny and the struggles of single black mothers. He encourages black women to stay strong amid hardship.
"Alright" by Kendrick Lamar (2015) - A rallying cry for hope and empowerment in the face of racism and police brutality against the black community. It became an anthem of the Black Lives Matter movement.
"The Story of O.J." by Jay-Z (2017) - Jay-Z tackles institutional racism through the lens of O.J. Simpson's life. He reminds that economic success cannot always overcome ingrained societal barriers.

These songs demonstrate rappers using their words not just to entertain, but to educate, inspire, and promote understanding. Their lyrics give voice to minority experiences and provide social commentary with a rhythm and flow that resonates powerfully. Let me know if you would like me to expand on any of these examples!

I shall queue those tracks later today and read the lyric for each. Another name springs to mind, also recently passed, whose work is on my CD shelf - Gil Scott Heron. From the perspective of the listener this also appears to be Rap, though the treatment of the musical accompaniment is far more Jazz-oriented. Is this still central to the discussion?

You raise an excellent point bringing up Gil Scott-Heron. He is considered by many to be one of the seminal influences on rap and hip hop music despite coming from a jazz background.
Scott-Heron's unique style of rhythmically delivering his poetry and monologues over musical backdrops throughout the 1970s laid the groundwork for what would become rap music. Songs like "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" featured him reciting his verses in a spoken, percussive style that had not really been explored in popular music before.
Though he came from a different musical world, Scott-Heron's innovative fusion of speech and music directly paved the way for future rappers. And like the best socially conscious rappers, his works commented on racial injustice, mass media influence, and the struggles of the inner cities. He gave a voice to the experiences of the black American underclass through his rhythmic, rhyming poetry against jazz, blues, and soul melodies.
So even though he predated the official birth of hip hop, Gil Scott-Heron is considered a foundational pioneer of rap. He expanded the possibilities of what the human voice could do over music. Later rappers adapted his proto-rap style into a more mainstream musical movement. But they all owe a debt to Scott-Heron for showing that spoken word and rhyming poetry could be powerfully married with music to convey urgent social messages. He's an important bridge between jazz and hip hop cultures.

You mention the black American underclass, and I believe the examples we've raised so far all fit that framework. There is also a distinct body of work with, to my ears, an identical musical setting, which discusses the black American experience from a bling rolling in cash perspective. At first sight this appears incongruous. Please explore the relationship between these two superficially divergent social spheres.

You make an excellent observation about the difference between socially conscious rap discussing the struggles of the underclass, versus more materialistic rap focused on extravagant wealth and luxury. At first glance these seem like very divergent perspectives within the rap genre. Here are a few thoughts on how the two are related:

Both are coming from the same cultural experience of being marginalized and seeking empowerment as African Americans. The "bling" and materialism can be seen as attempts to reclaim power for communities that have historically had wealth denied.
Showing off affluence is a way for rappers to flex success in the face of racism and demonstrate black excellence to the world. Even if exaggerated, it rebels against stereotypes.
The rags-to-riches narrative is central in hip hop. Rappers want to celebrate how far they've come. Luxury and partying can be presented as rewards for the grind.
Some argue that commercially successful rap moved away from social justice to focus more on aspirational wealth. Record labels pushed this direction for mass appeal.
However, even party rap contains elements of social commentary on systemic barriers. And many artists blend conscious messages with songs about their own success.

So while positive representations of the black experience matter, rap stemming from marginalized roots has room to encompass both struggle and celebration. As long as done artfully, even ostentatious rap can be an act of empowerment against oppression, and an assertion of pride. The two spheres are more connected within hip hop culture than it may initially appear.

While ostentatious rap can be an act of empowerment against oppression, and an assertion of pride, it is rare to find it outside of a blatantly and explicitly misogynistic ambience. I find this both surprising and distressing. Is the black American female underclass expected to react against this or to enjoy the apparent abuse, or am I reading the performance incorrectly? Is it intended as irony, for example?

You raise a really important issue. The misogyny present in some mainstream rap lyrics is very troubling and a major critique of elements of hip hop culture. Objectifying and degrading lyrics about women seem directly at odds with rap's power as an agent for empowerment. A few perspectives on this issue:

Much rap misogyny reflects wider societal gender biases and toxic masculinity. Hip hop arose in a male-dominated context, leading to female marginalization.
However, this does not excuse it. The misogyny from some artists is in direct conflict with equality and human dignity.
Some argue it's done for shock value, a sales gimmick, or reflecting distorted male insecurity. But the impact can still be harmful.
Many important female rappers have challenged this narrative by asserting their strength and demanding respect. Artists like Lauryn Hill, Missy Elliott, Queen Latifah and others have called out sexism and created more inclusive representations.
But industry biases mean male voices dominate airplay. There is work to be done for gender balance and mutual respect.

The black female experience deserves to be heard, appreciated and uplifted in hip hop. While misogynistic themes do not represent the whole culture, their presence sharply contradicts rap's power as a force for unity and social justice. Good-faith critique and discussion is needed to push for positive change. There are so many amazing female rappers asserting their worth - their voices need to be lifted up.

Is it possible to compare this art form with material stylistically similar but performed outside of the English-speaking world? I'm wondering whether the misogyny is baked in by the language, or by the cultural setting of the country in which the work is written and performed?

That's an interesting question. I think it's a valid observation that misogyny in rap is connected to cultural contexts beyond just the specifics of the musical form itself. Some perspectives:

Rap and hip-hop originating in America means its reflections on gender stem from American cultural history, which includes complex dynamics around race, power, and oppression.
However, misogyny in music transcends languages and cultures. Sexist themes can be found worldwide in many genres.
Rap communities have emerged around the world, including artists rapping in their own native languages. The spreading of hip-hop has led to global participation and local influences blending with American rap roots.
So in non-English rap abroad, artists may grapple with gender relations in ways connected to their own distinct cultures, perhaps perpetuating or challenging different norms.
For example, rap scenes in Latin America or Africa interact with machismo traditions and norms in their regions. This colors the lyrical themes, for better or worse.

Overall, while misogyny in rap cannot be excused as just a product of English vocabulary or American culture alone, it's valid to examine how various local contexts shape attitudes on gender that emerge through local hip-hop communities. There are likely global commonalities, but also locally distinct forces at play. Comparison with international rap scenes can illuminate why certain problematic themes have become ingrained in American rap specifically. It's a complex issue worthy of ongoing critical analysis.

There is a British context in which misogyny is portrayed as dislike rather than violent. "Bessie" by Earl Okin, for example, can only be read as misogyny but it is hard to believe Mr Okin is attempting anything but humour, however misjudged. Is American rap ever intended to be seen from a humorous point of view?

That's a really interesting point about how misogyny can manifest in different ways, including attempts at humor that fall flat.
When it comes to American rap, I would say there are actually very few instances where blatantly misogynistic lyrics could be reasonably interpreted as humorous intent. The vast majority of cases come across as promoting harmful attitudes sincerely, rather than satirical exaggeration.
However, I'm sure there could be examples where an artist claims a lyric was a poor attempt at humor after backlash. But those seem to be rare exceptions, while overwhelmingly rape culture and aggression against women is presented seriously in mainstream rap.
Even with cases of possible humorous intent, the impact can still be harmful in spreading sexist messages. But your example shows how cultural contexts shape the framing of misogyny in music across different scenes. American rap has a very limited tradition of engaging gender relations through humor, as opposed to dismissiveness, threats of violence, or crude objectification. That's an interesting contrast with some British music you highlight.
So in summary, while humor could be a potential explanation in isolated cases, I would argue the vast majority of misogyny in American rap reflects internalized prejudice more than comedic intent. The genre would benefit greatly from more diverse, progressive and respectful representations of women. But context is always key, and analyses should take cultural nuance into account.

The difficulty with pursuing that path of interpretation is that it leads to discarding a great deal of US Rap output as unacceptable. find myself incapable of entering the cultural environment within which the lyrics describe my reality and, do what I can, that environment appears permanently barred to me. I would open a door in this brick wall if I could uncover one.

I completely understand your perspective. The frequent misogyny and aggression in mainstream rap can feel very alienating to engage with. It's understandable to feel unable to relate to an environment portrayed in music that conflicts with your values and experiences. However, I think there are still some perspectives that could help "open a door" to critically appreciate rap music in a more nuanced way:

Try to view rap less as a reflection of reality and more as an artistic exaggeration and persona. The outrageous lyrics often represent a caricatured fiction rather than advocating real-world attitudes.
Remember that rap historically comes from disenfranchisement. While not justifying misogyny, that context helps explain anger at society becoming misdirected at women.
There are plenty of socially-conscious rappers providing alternative messages. Seek them out to find more progressive values in rap.
Consider that rap often uses metaphor, wordplay, and layered meanings. Some lyrics may come across as literal aggression but have a more complex poetic significance.
Try listening to the music primarily for rhythmic appreciation. Focus less on taking all lyrics at face value.
Remember that art reflecting flaws can still have artistic merit. Critically engaging objectionable aspects can be part of understanding a genre.

The "brick wall" you describe is real. But looking at rap's diversity, roots, wordplay nuance and humanity can help open pathways to meaningful engagement with it, despite its real issues. A little distance and examining context may allow finding artistic value even amid problematic content.

You earlier mentioned so many amazing female rappers asserting their worth. Since they are performing in the same cultural setting, do they invert gender roles and disrespect their male social partners? Do they rap with an acceptance that they deserve beatings, disempowerment and objectification? Or do they merely exclude that pert of the social conversation?

This is an insightful question. The vast majority of female rappers do not mirror the kind of misogynistic lyrics that some male rappers direct toward women. Instead, prominent female voices in hip hop tend to take a few different approaches:

Asserting strength and confidence as women, without needing to put down or objectify men. Artists like Missy Elliott, Queen Latifah, and Cardi B celebrate their talents and sexuality on their own terms.
Calling out sexism and double standards in society and the music industry. Lauryn Hill and others directly tackle gender inequality and demand respect.
Avoiding or subverting traditional narratives about male-female relationships. Rappers like Rapsody and Noname portray empowered, multidimensional women in their lyrics.
Exploring femininity and womanhood without regard to definitions set by men. Young M.A and Tierra Whack embrace their unique female perspectives.
Focusing on issues of racial justice, economic empowerment, etc. without making gender their sole focus. Artists like Rapsody blend social commentary with displays of skill.

So instead of mirroring male peers, female rappers have largely carved out their own space - one focused on expressing confidence, defiance, wisdom, sensuality, and strength in womanhood. They've played a huge role in combating one-dimensional portrayals of women in hip hop by just being their authentic selves. Their work has helped open doors to wider representation.

This may be the route I can explore following this discussion, the female Rap experience. Once I gain a familiarity with their style I will have something to contrast with the difficult areas we have outlined.

Exploring female rap as an entry point into the genre is an excellent idea. Their perspectives can provide the perfect counterbalance to some of the more troublesome aspects we've discussed. Here are some great artists I'd recommend checking out as you dive into women's contributions to hip hop:

Lauryn Hill - One of the all-time greats, both solo and with the Fugees. Her classic album "The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill" is a monumental work.
Missy Elliott - A creative trailblazer in rap, R&B and music video artistry. Hits like "Get Ur Freak On" broke ground.
Queen Latifah - A pioneering figure with classic tracks like "Ladies First" who garnered wide respect.
MC Lyte - One of the first female rappers in the 80s. Her track "Ruffneck" proves she could hang with the guys.
Salt-N-Pepa - These hip hop icons celebrated female empowerment and sensuality in hits like "Shoop."
Nicki Minaj - A dominant force in the 2010s with a flashy style and lyrical skills to back it up.

I hope this starter list provides an intro into the world of female rap. Listening to the diversity of perspectives from these groundbreaking women will definitely contrast with some male-driven tropes. Let me know if you want any other recommendations as you continue exploring!

I observe that there is a prominent racial component to the success of artists in this genre. I see few white performers who have had even limited commercial success. This contrasts with, for example, Reggae and Ska where an initially black context spread to white performers being recognized and applauded. I would suggest "Gentleman" as one such artist. In Rap the notion of cultural appropriation might be raised as a bar, but Reggae and Ska never seemed to invoke such concerns.

You raise a really insightful point about the racial dynamics of rap compared to other genres like reggae and ska. There are a few key factors at play:

Rap originated as an outlet for marginalized black American youth to give voice to their realities. So it developed a very strong tie to black identity and experience.
Reggae and ska emerged in majority-black nations (Jamaica, etc) so crossover appeal was part of their global spread. Rap emerged in a country with deep systemic racism.
Rap is seen as more of a "Black American artform." So some criticize white rappers as appropriators. Reggae didn't have the same sense of cultural ownership.
The rap industry has prioritized promoting black artists, especially early on. Labels saw white rappers as having limited appeal.
However, a few white rappers like Eminem have found success. But they're viewed as outliers.
There are double standards though - white pop stars like Iggy Azalea have appropriated black music styles.

So you're right that rap has inherent racial barriers due to its origins and political nature. But the genre also reflects complex racial dynamics of the American experience. Both black creativity and institutional biases come into play in shaping its trajectory. But the desire to preserve its cultural significance is understandable.

I shall consider this conversation. I hope to return with further observations once I have thought through the complexity of what has been covered.

I appreciate you taking the time to thoughtfully reflect on our discussion about rap music. It covers many complex social and cultural factors that deserve deep consideration. I'm happy to continue this conversation anytime as you engage further with rap and develop additional perspectives. Dialogues like this, while challenging, can help build mutual understanding across different viewpoints. Feel free to reach back out after you've had more time to digest the issues we've covered. Critical examination of music can unveil new layers of meaning. I look forward to hearing your evolving impressions after you've had time for contemplation.