when the proverbial hits the fan in the US

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:45 pm

After the live streaming of a girlfriend wittnessing the shooting of her boyfriend being shot beside her in a car. The president talking on it ....now police shot in protests.

All because of a broken tail light? Really?

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:46 pm

No seriously!!!!!........really?

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:12 pm

11 officers shot...

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:14 am

Well, obviously it was not the broken tail light.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:42 am

Back in the day redneck cops would pull you over for having a broken tail light even if you didn't have a broken tail light. If you disagreed with him about not having a broken tail light he would go to the back of the car and knock out a taillight with his batton and tell you, "well I'm lookin right at it and its broke"

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:16 pm

I'm not sure why this isn't considered an act of domestic terror?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:32 pm

What a horrific two days.

Watching the graphic videos, I tried to put myself in the position of the police officers.

I have not followed each case, but have seen both videos.

The lady in the car, live on Facebook, appeared very calm as the policeman waved his gun menacingly. What caused the officer to shoot through a car window at a man sitting reaching for documents the officer had asked for.....who can say?

The other two officers rolling on the floor, as one draws a pistol and then fires point blank into the victim, and then falls backward surprised and frightened at the outcome.

The only reasonable answer, presuming both officers are decent men, is that the fear of guns being used against them was overwhelming enough for them to have protect their own lives...........

I believe that there are more whites than blacks die in the same sort of confrontations, but that there are many more whites than blacks, so that percentage wise there is a greater proportion of blacks dieing. I don't really understand statistics (I am a simple soul) but looking at how many inter racial deaths occur, ie whites killing whites, whites killing blacks, blacks killing blacks, and so on, the blacks seem to kill more in every category.

Which fuels the theory 'they' are more inclined that way, so are blacks more inclined to violence so the police killings are understandable, or is there another reason ?

And would we listen if any extenuating circumstances were found, such as poverty, white privilege ?

Obviously not the biggest tragedy but it illustrates so graphically the idiocy of gun violence to solve any bloody thing......is the story of Shetamia Taylor caught in the cross fire of a very angry blackman.

I think both black and white have their problems with each other, I have said that on here before, there is a mistrust, an unease................sadly only time will heal.....maybe.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:55 pm

Obviously needed the guns purely for self defence.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:10 pm

YZGI;1498411 wrote: Back in the day redneck cops would pull you over for having a broken tail light even if you didn't have a broken tail light. If you disagreed with him about not having a broken tail light he would go to the back of the car and knock out a taillight with his batton and tell you, "well I'm lookin right at it and its broke"

Did they really? Or have you been watching too many films?

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:48 pm

Bruv, it has been a horrific 2 days.

a lot is running thru my mind if anyone can follow please reply.

This video shooting - which led to the Texas police officer shooting, and now all gatherings - rally's etc.

Every black shooting leads to protest - rally's - the right to be heard.

I ask myself - when was the last time the " White " people protested - held a rally?

oh - it was the Revolutionary War.

The majority of us "White" "people" sit back and watch.

Sorry - all this killing - all this shooting - I'm so anti gun - sorry.

YZGI - in the good ole' days - no one had a gun except the cop.

Who remembers the 60"s ??

BLACK POWER - remember - the fist in the air & the red band around the forehead?

well we gave them all a gun.

Patsy

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:14 am

Statistically, an average of 400 people are shot to death by police in a year. Of those, 26% are black, 23% are Hispanic and the rest are non-hispanic/Caucasian.

There is a slight disproportionate number of Blacks based on population statistics.

I wonder about such things. Watching the Baton Rouge video, one thing stuck out. The video started after the confrontation had already got out of hand. I have to wonder. Did the police approach the guy with an attitude to start with. Perhaps they got off to a bad start, and we end up with three men, testosterone rising, get into that "Fight or Flight" mode, all at the same time, and none of them know when to stand down. Is it possible that it had nothing to do with white vs. Black? But of course anyone viewing the video will see only two white cops attacking a single Black man. That will immediately get the assumptions flying.

In the Minnesota event, it appears from the witnesses the Cop asked for ID, the guy says "I have a licensed gun", as he is reaching for his wallet, the Cop then sees the gun and says "Don't move!" but it may not have registered with the guy, so the cop then pulls gun and shoots. Tragic, and foolish. Would the cop have been as quick to shoot if the guy was white? Who will ever know. Will anyone even let such discussions develop?

Probably not. They will hold on to their prejudices and preconceptions, and presume racism is at fault.

Of course, the Dallas thing does appear to be born of Racism. The young man who shot the cops apparently went on at length that he wanted to kill White People, and especially White Cops.

Patsy, In the sixties we had guns, at least out in the country, but we didn't make a big deal of it. Nobody cared about Guns until the NRA started their "The gummint is coming to take your guns away!!" campaign.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Jul 09, 2016 1:43 pm

Latest news on the shooting in Minnesota, it seems that Mr Castile looked very much like the suspect in a Convenience store Robbery a few days before, so the police apparently did NOT pull the car over for a busted tail light, but were suspecting the driver of an armed robbery. This would shed new light on the behavior. The cop thinks he is dealing with an Armed Robbery suspect, and that person appears to reach for his weapon.

Bang! Lights out.

If this is true, then, even if Mr Castile was not the robber, the whole situation plays out much differently. The police shooting will be deemed justifiable. The anger that caused the shooting in Dallas will prove to have been misdirected, and the entire argument falls apart.

We are back to "There are too many people with guns out there, and too many people are dying."

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:58 pm

I am of the belief that a lot of interaction between black and white is overly tentative.

I think of it as when a young driver is pulled over for driving too cautiously in a decent car.

The car being too expensive for one so young, plus being driven too slowly uncharacteristic for most youth......this happened to my adopted black daughter driving a BMW in the UK. It was her car and everything was legal, she was defensive of questions about her driving, because she knew she was driving well, she always drives like that.

Had she been a brash young man, and the policeman armed, their different stances/attitudes may have caused problems. As it happens the daughter is savvy enough and was wise enough to realise it wasn't "cos I'm black" and the man was just doing his job, and she went on her way after a few checks.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:52 pm

LarsMac;1498438 wrote: Latest news on the shooting in Minnesota, it seems that Mr Castile looked very much like the suspect in a Convenience store Robbery a few days before, so the police apparently did NOT pull the car over for a busted tail light, but were suspecting the driver of an armed robbery. This would shed new light on the behavior. The cop thinks he is dealing with an Armed Robbery suspect, and that person appears to reach for his weapon.

Bang! Lights out.

If this is true, then, even if Mr Castile was not the robber, the whole situation plays out much differently. The police shooting will be deemed justifiable. The anger that caused the shooting in Dallas will prove to have been misdirected, and the entire argument falls apart.

We are back to "There are too many people with guns out there, and too many people are dying."

So a man was shot because one black man looks much like another black man ? Thats racist in its self. Another words hes shot because hes black.. still the same argument.

And how would you lgically explain a man lying on the ground who is shot six time ....SIX!

My eldest was asked to be searched because he looked like someone the police were looking for. ..... he was okay with it but they needed his permission! You cant go all out ballistic on people because they are waljing down a street or driving in a car. Because thats essentially whats happening in America. Its genecidal.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:23 pm

magentaflame;1498451 wrote: So a man was shot because one black man looks much like another black man ? Thats racist in its self. Another words hes shot because hes black.. still the same argument.

And how would you lgically explain a man lying on the ground who is shot six time ....SIX!

My eldest was asked to be searched because he looked like someone the police were looking for. ..... he was okay with it but they needed his permission! You cant go all out ballistic on people because they are waljing down a street or driving in a car. Because thats essentially whats happening in America. Its genecidal.

Well, trying to get past the emotions is probably a good first step.

It was a tragedy, no doubt. People don' think. That applies to cops as much as to everyone else. We really don't know what exactly took place. And as long as we are reacting in fear and anger, we will never get to the heart of the matter. We need to try and understand what happened and why. If for no other reason than how to train cops to use better judgement. Though training the average citizen to think a little wouldn't hurt, either.

And no it was not just a black man looking like another black man.

A black man who looks like an armed robbery suspect reaching for a gun.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:35 am

It all hinges on the line "There are too many people with guns out there, and too many people are dying."

Just to throw into the discussion the strange statistic that car safety and presumably the fear of dieing has lowered traffic fatalities in America.

Due to the Constitution 'and the right to bear arms' the death toll down to gun deaths continue to rise, and are due to intersect as they rise......strange country.

Gun Deaths Compared Motor Vehicle Deaths

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:22 am

Bruv;1498459 wrote: It all hinges on the line "There are too many people with guns out there, and too many people are dying."

Just to throw into the discussion the strange statistic that car safety and presumably the fear of dieing has lowered traffic fatalities in America.

Due to the Constitution 'and the right to bear arms' the death toll down to gun deaths continue to rise, and are due to intersect as they rise......strange country.

Gun Deaths Compared Motor Vehicle Deaths

Actually, they already have crossed. There are now fewer deaths by automobile than by firearms in the US.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:06 am

LarsMac;1498460 wrote: Actually, they already have crossed. There are now fewer deaths by automobile than by firearms in the US.

That is a tragedy......................unbloodybelievable.....a shockingly deplorable stat.

If that was happening in some third world oil rich country, America might take it upon themselves to free them from such a tyranny.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:43 pm

A disabled man with a carer...... the disabled man sitting on the ground playing with a truck. The carer lying on his back with his hands in the air yelling he is unarmed is still shot.

When asked why he shot the man the policeman eespibds with..."i dont know"

And that still sits okay qith people.......sigh.