Ban Shaira Muslims from U.S. Entry Agree or Disagree?

[Lon]

Since Muslims of the Shaira persuasion believe that Shaira Law supercedes all other laws why would we ever want to allow them entry?

[LarsMac]

I don't recall ever hearing of Shaira Muslims.

Heard of Shia Muslims, and Sunni Muslims, and Sufi Muslims.

No Shaira.

But, the only people I think that we should refuse entry to would be people known to be associated with illegal activities, or people whom we suspect of actually being members of terrorists organization, regardless of their avowed religious leanings.

[AnneBoleyn]

Lon;1497620 wrote: Since Muslims of the Shaira persuasion believe that Shaira Law supercedes all other laws why would we ever want to allow them entry?


Because OUR Laws, within the US supercedes Theirs.

[LarsMac]

AnneBoleyn;1497624 wrote: Because OUR Laws, within the US supercedes Theirs.


True.

It's not so much about who They are, as it is about who WE are.

[gmc]

I'd have thought you have enough problems with christians who believe god's law (as they see it) supercedes US law and the US constitution a bigger threat to your freedom than any muslim is likely to be at the moment.

[AnneBoleyn]

gmc;1497632 wrote: I'd have thought you have enough problems with christians who believe god's law (as they see it) supercedes US law and the US constitution a bigger threat to your freedom than any muslim is likely to be at the moment.


Yes, gmc, I admit to those problems, but when someone is caught breaking laws, i.e. bombing, etc. abortion clinics, they are tried under existing laws that are on the books. As Jo Cox's death showed, there are nuts everywhere. btw, it has become time again for me to switch almost exclusively to BBC & EURO news. I do so every four years for balanced coverage of the USA, but Ms. Cox's death & BREXIT has hastened my news clock.

[Bryn Mawr]

AnneBoleyn;1497634 wrote: Yes, gmc, I admit to those problems, but when someone is caught breaking laws, i.e. bombing, etc. abortion clinics, they are tried under existing laws that are on the books. As Jo Cox's death showed, there are nuts everywhere. btw, it has become time again for me to switch almost exclusively to BBC & EURO news. I do so every four years for balanced coverage of the USA, but Ms. Cox's death & BREXIT has hastened my news clock.


Try adding Al Jazira English to the mix for another (relatively unbiased) viewpoint.

[AnneBoleyn]

Bryn Mawr;1497635 wrote: Try adding Al Jazira English to the mix for another (relatively unbiased) viewpoint.


Try? Do *I* personally own a cable station? Anyway, check your facts. My son, who has Time-Warner Cable in Manhattan, has Al Jazira. I, who live in Brooklyn & have Cablevision, do not. Some are offering it, some are not.

I am not the apologist for the USA, just as I don't see you as an apologist for the UK. You know something of me by now, I hope, it has been 8 years. I am not a typical anything or anybody & I do the best I can.

[Bruv]

Lon;1497620 wrote: Since Muslims of the Shaira persuasion believe that Shaira Law supercedes all other laws why would we ever want to allow them entry?


Would you have them answer a questionnaire before entry ?

[Bryn Mawr]

AnneBoleyn;1497637 wrote: Try? Do *I* personally own a cable station? Anyway, check your facts. My son, who has Time-Warner Cable in Manhattan, has Al Jazira. I, who live in Brooklyn & have Cablevision, do not. Some are offering it, some are not.

I am not the apologist for the USA, just as I don't see you as an apologist for the UK. You know something of me by now, I hope, it has been 8 years. I am not a typical anything or anybody & I do the best I can.


I just thought that, if you could get it, it would be of interest to you.

[LarsMac]

AnneBoleyn;1497637 wrote: Try? Do *I* personally own a cable station? Anyway, check your facts. My son, who has Time-Warner Cable in Manhattan, has Al Jazira. I, who live in Brooklyn & have Cablevision, do not. Some are offering it, some are not.

I am not the apologist for the USA, just as I don't see you as an apologist for the UK. You know something of me by now, I hope, it has been 8 years. I am not a typical anything or anybody & I do the best I can.


I have broken away from almost all TV news channels. They spend way too much time on irrelevant BS.

[FourPart]

There's always the live streaming one - Live Stream HD - Al Jazeera English

Also, there's the Arabic one on FilmOn.com in the Middle Eastern category.

[Lon]

Bruv;1497640 wrote: Would you have them answer a questionnaire before entry ?




Yes Why Not?

[FourPart]

Lon;1497660 wrote: Yes Why Not?
I thought they already had to.

[Lon]

I believe that one of the best sources for recruiting new Isis followers is from Muslims that adhere to Sharia Law. Sharia Law is fundamentally opposite Western morality, culture and laws. These are the Muslims that pose a real threat and fitting in with Western Culture just ain't gonna happen. There is no way they can assimilate as other groups like Asians, Mexicans etc. have. There has to be a effective way to screen this particular group of Muslims and bar their entry.

[FourPart]

Islam expects that they follow the Law of the Land. However it also expects that Law of the Land to be Sharia.

[Bruv]

Lon;1497668 wrote: I believe that one of the best sources for recruiting new Isis followers is from Muslims that adhere to Sharia Law. Sharia Law is fundamentally opposite Western morality, culture and laws. These are the Muslims that pose a real threat and fitting in with Western Culture just ain't gonna happen. There is no way they can assimilate as other groups like Asians, Mexicans etc. have. There has to be a effective way to screen this particular group of Muslims and bar their entry.


Trump has got you hook line and sinker.

I think you are looking in the wrong direction.

Might it be like a magician doing a trick......a bit of misdirection ?

[LarsMac]

Lon;1497668 wrote: I believe that one of the best sources for recruiting new Isis followers is from Muslims that adhere to Sharia Law. Sharia Law is fundamentally opposite Western morality, culture and laws. These are the Muslims that pose a real threat and fitting in with Western Culture just ain't gonna happen. There is no way they can assimilate as other groups like Asians, Mexicans etc. have. There has to be a effective way to screen this particular group of Muslims and bar their entry.


I honestly don't care what they think about Sharia. when they come to the US, US law takes precedent. If they cannot agree to that, they cannot remain here. The Rule of Law is what we as a country are about. And that applies to Muslims, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Atheists, and Satanists.

We have to make that very clear. A muslim cannot ignore US law any more than that twit county Clerk in Indiana, or that Baker in Colorado. And the US Courts, and Law Enforcement must hold to that.

You can appeal to Sharia, or Christian Biblical, or Talmudic laws on personal matters within your community, as long as they do not contradict US, State, County, and civil laws of this country.

[FourPart]

LarsMac;1497672 wrote: I honestly don't care what they think about Sharia. when they come to the US, US law takes precedent. If they cannot agree to that, they cannot remain here. The Rule of Law is what we as a country are about. And that applies to Muslims, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Atheists, and Satanists.

We have to make that very clear. A muslim cannot ignore US law any more than that twit county Clerk in Indiana, or that Baker in Colorado. And the US Courts, and Law Enforcement must hold to that.

You can appeal to Sharia, or Christian Biblical, or Talmudic laws on personal matters within your community, as long as they do not contradict US, State, County, and civil laws of this country.


And no doubt the American Indians didn't care what the White Settlers thought about Western Laws. They knew that their own laws took precedence as well.

[LarsMac]

FourPart;1497675 wrote: And no doubt the American Indians didn't care what the White Settlers thought about Western Laws. They knew that their own laws took precedence as well.


Yup, right up until they were beat down and forced to surrender to "Manifest Destiny"

[FourPart]

LarsMac;1497679 wrote: Yup, right up until they were beat down and forced to surrender to "Manifest Destiny"
That's the whole point. History can repeat itself.

[gmc]

AnneBoleyn;1497637 wrote: Try? Do *I* personally own a cable station? Anyway, check your facts. My son, who has Time-Warner Cable in Manhattan, has Al Jazira. I, who live in Brooklyn & have Cablevision, do not. Some are offering it, some are not.

I am not the apologist for the USA, just as I don't see you as an apologist for the UK. You know something of me by now, I hope, it has been 8 years. I am not a typical anything or anybody & I do the best I can.


Watch it on the internet. I don't get russai today on cable and will occasionally watch it on lione the amereucan media I like to trawl through every now and then - msnbc I look at rachel maddow and sometimes fox news. Boy is the frequency of ad breaks irritating is it true that's why americans can't concentrate for more than five minutes at a time or is that just one of these jokes you hear.

[AnneBoleyn]

It's summertime, and that is short. Not going to spend my life at a computer or TV for the summer. Anyway, I have seen Al Jazeera, wasn't overly impressed with them either.

After Rachel Maddow is Lawrence O'Donnell. He is absolutely wonderful. Give him a listen if you have time, you won't be sorry.

As for russians, I'm surrounded as it is.

[gmc]

posted by anne boleyn

It's summertime, and that is short. Not going to spend my life at a computer or TV for the summer. Anyway, I have seen Al Jazeera, wasn't overly impressed with them either.


It's like most news channels sometimes it's good sometimes it's not. I occasionaly cross reference the same story to see how the same story is reported from different viewpoints it's rather starting sometimes to find out things not being reported on th e likes of the bbc etc etc.

[Saint_]

Actually, to become a citizen of the U.S. you have to take the following pledge:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

Since the Muslim God, "Allah" is the same as the Christian God, you'd have to lie to your own God to take that oath and then break it.

[Saint_]

gmc;1497692 wrote: why americans can't concentrate for more than five minutes at a time


You just haven't learned how to watch American news. There are five news channels I watch in the morning, and they stagger their ads, so I just switch to another channel when an ad comes on!

[Bruv]

Saint_;1497851 wrote: You just haven't learned how to watch American news. There are five news channels I watch in the morning, and they stagger their ads, so I just switch to another channel when an ad comes on!


Haven't got it programmed to sychronise the adverts yet ?

They even devised your national game to be advert friendly didn't they ?

[FourPart]

8 C.F.R. 337.1 provides that the phrase "so help me God" is optional and that the words ‘on oath’ can be substituted with ‘and solemnly affirm’.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_A ... ed_States))

[Saint_]

Bruv;1497857 wrote:

They even devised your national game to be advert friendly didn't they ?


Darn tootin'! Our whole society is based on ads. How else would we know what to think, what to buy, and what to feel?

[Bruv]

Saint_;1497849 wrote: Actually, to become a citizen of the U.S. you have to take the following pledge:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

Since the Muslim God, "Allah" is the same as the Christian God, you'd have to lie to your own God to take that oath and then break it.


Phrased in a time when the country was forming with citizens from nations which you were in conflict with you.

Nothing changes does it ?

[Saint_]

Sure fashion changes, languages, and technology change. But people? Not so much.

[magentaflame]

Its good to see a country who learns from their history of extreme religious thought. No more lynching of blacks and burning of witches.

[LarsMac]

magentaflame;1497966 wrote: Its good to see a country who learns from their history of extreme religious thought. No more lynching of blacks and burning of witches.


There is reason of late to wonder just how far we have come.

[Wandrin]

LarsMac;1497970 wrote: There is reason of late to wonder just how far we have come.


I have wondered, more than a few times recently, if much of the progress I thought we had made as a society was illusionary.

[Bruv]

LarsMac;1497970 wrote: There is reason of late to wonder just how far we have come.


I was a member for a long time on a now defunct Black website, I was out, they knew I was an 'impostor', some objected to my presence, others put up with me, some enjoyed my 'biased' view.

There was a general agreement that has stuck in my mind on a topic about whether anyone had real white friends, some had friends and relatives.

The general consensus was that when push came to shove, where black and white was the choice......all whites chose their own kind. This covered workplace disputes, family tiffs, job interviews, interaction with police etc. etc.

I have always considered there to be an invisible barrier amongst inter race relationships of any kind. I think this barrier will naturally diminish over generations, it has over my life time. How long will it take to disappear entirely ? I would guess 10s of generations if not more.

[Saint_]

LarsMac;1497970 wrote: There is reason of late to wonder just how far we have come.


True enough. But we still don't mix religion and politics. I read somewhere once, that's why the East fell and the West rose.

[Ted]

I don't care who: Red, black, yellow or white all are human beings and justice demands equality. Anything else is in my view evil. Of course there are bad things in all of the races but most simply want to live and let live. In Canada the integration is great. We need to ban only those who will not cooperate with the general scheme of things. Sharia law is not appropriate for many cultures. Canada had a request to allow sharia law for Muslims but it was turned down as it has no place in Canada. Want sharia law go to a country where it is accepted.

[magentaflame]

What i find unsettling is the mish mesh of laws covering up honour killings. We had a spate of them here, then all the sudden they stopped.......really????? Turns out they didnt stop at all but suddenly got slotted in under domestic violence laws etc. So we dont hear about them anymore. Same wirh underage marriage, forced pregnancys and bride prices.

[Ted]

When immigrants come to a foreign country they are expected to follow the laws of that nation. Anything less they should be sent back.

[magentaflame]

A queensland polirician just got elected into the senate ,

She wants all halal food banned .

Wants all jobs offered to citizens first before immigrants

And wants more something oor other for indginous

Look up Pauline Hanson

[gmc]

Saint_;1497997 wrote: True enough. But we still don't mix religion and politics. I read somewhere once, that's why the East fell and the West rose.


The mongols wiped the floor with european armies when they came up against them. The west rose because religion lost it's stranglehold, feudal society broke down and most importantly the west started to industrialise - we had better cannon and muskets. What do you mean by the east China and Japan seem to be doing OK nowadays.

[Ted]

Down through history there have been many times when politics and religion were the same thing. In the Roman empire Caesar was worshiped as a god is one example. The invasion of the Holy Land was also a politico/religious event.