The fear of this site being religious

Ted
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Post by Ted »

I accept the reality of God. I'm not talking about a being that exists. But I do see a lot of misunderstanding about religion today. A lot ofd folks are simply ignorant of what is happening.
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Post by Mickiel »

gmc;1520053 wrote: Splitting semantic hairs perhaps but I actually agree with you.

atheist

ˈeɪθɪɪst/

noun

a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

If you don't believe in a god or lack belief in a god you are an atheist. Without god. That doesn't mean you would not be open to or accept proof of god's existence but I've yet to hear or see any proof of god. Like Richard Dawkins I am 99.9% certain there is no higher being. (must read his book sometime).

An agnostic is more akin to a person who believes that the existence of a greater power, such as a god, cannot be proven or disproved. You just don't know. Which may well be and is a position I agree with (no offence intended with what follows I can respect your choice bit I don't agree with it) but I regard it is sophistry designed to deflect the antagonism of the religious when you question their reasons for believing, it's not that far back in our history to a time when being a non-believer was downright life-threatening it's ingrained in us to dissemble when it comes to religion. I don't know either but come down on the side that there is no higher power until shown otherwise I no longer use the term agnostic when applied to myself for the simple reason I was simply trying to avoid giving offence and avoid getting in to arguments which when you are talking to the devout can very quickly become very hostile. especially with the nuttier protestant sects. I suppose I could class myself as an agnostic atheist I don't believe god exists, but it can't be proved

posted by mickiel

Why not believe in God? Give me a good reason not to. Explain to me why belief in God needs to be

Questioned in the first place. Belief in God is natural. It's like nature. It was meant to be. Now why was it meant to be? Because it's part of our existence.. We are conscious of God because we were

Meant to be.

If you don't know the cause of something why invent an imaginary being to explain things? I don't know is a good enough answer until you find answers. You are the one who claims god exists the burden of proof is on you, generally speaking proving something does not exist is rather difficult on the other hand if something does exist it should manifest itself somehow.

We are conscious of God because we were Meant to be.

You think you are conscious of god (I assume) why do you think you are?


I think I am conscious of God because its my turn to be. I am alive now, becauuse I am am suppos ed to be..
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Post by Mickiel »

Mickiel;1520065 wrote: I think I am conscious of God because its my turn to be. I am alive now, becauuse I am am suppos ed to be..


You see , the meat of what I am saying is reality. I was not alive 700 years who's. I t was not my time to exist. But I was alive in the consciousnes of God. He knew he would give birth to me. So my reality is God. I exist because of him.
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Post by Mickiel »

As I consider the possible Consciousness of a universe . I must then consider Quasars because of their creative power. they create by destruction. They are the brightest k own power in the universe.
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Post by Mickiel »

Mickiel;1520086 wrote: As I consider the possible Consciousness of a universe . I must then consider Quasars because of their creative power. they create by destruction. They are the brightest k own power in the universe.


God destroys and creates, quasars do the same kind of process.
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Post by Mickiel »

Mickiel;1520069 wrote: You see , the meat of what I aying is reality. I was not alive 700 years who's. I t was not my time to exist. But I was alive in the consciousnes of God. He knew he would give birth to me. So my reality is God. I exist because of him.


A quasar is the beginning of consciousness in a galaxy.
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Post by Mickiel »

Mickiel;1520123 wrote: A quasar is the beginning of consciousness in a galaxy.


I used to think that destruction could not cause life, now I believe it can. The big bang theory possible? It could well be.I think God released A large Amount of power. And things started developing.
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Post by Mickiel »

Mickiel;1520130 wrote: I used to think that destruction could not cause life, now I believe it can. The big bang theory possible? It could well be.I think God released A large Amount of power. And things started developing.


Quasars teach us that destruction can cause life, because they create planets as they destroy the gas in a solar system.
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Post by Mickiel »

Mickiel;1520131 wrote: Quasars teach us that destruction can cause life, because they create planets as they destroy the gas in a solar system.


The first big explosion may have been the first Quasar developed by a power like God, I do not see that developing on self created destruction. Destruction, in my view, is a purposed goal, thus I think holding a conscious resonant ingrained within.
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Post by Mickiel »

Mickiel;1520133 wrote: The first big explosion may have been the first Quasar developed by a power like God, I do not see that developing on self created destruction. Destruction, in my view, is a purposed goal, thus I think holding a conscious resonant ingrained within.


When we try to understand the reasoning of God, we must look at and examine why he uses destruction to create, and that helps us understand why he uses evil to induce good.
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Post by Mickiel »

Interesting that Quasars. Do not occur today, if they did we would all be dead. But they are the most powerful things we can see back in time.
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Post by LarsMac »

Mickiel;1520135 wrote: Interesting that Quasars. Do not occur today, if they did we would all be dead. But they are the most powerful things we can see back in time.


Why do you think that they do not occur today?
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Post by FourPart »

Mickiel;1520130 wrote: I used to think that destruction could not cause life, now I believe it can. The big bang theory possible? It could well be.I think God released A large Amount of power. And things started developing.


At least on that we are agreed. On the Origin of the Universe Theism are not necessarily quite so much in conflict.

We agree on the point of the Big Bang having occured. Anything after that point is moot. It is accepted it happened & went on to develop from there. The only point where we differ is as to what the cause of the Big Bang was. My personal belief is that it was a matter of random occurence that caused a spontaneous spark which triggered a major chain reaction. The Theistic side is that of some kind of intelligent Deity that existed before time itself in a realm that didn't even exist at that point (as we have already agreed that the beginning of all would have been the Big Bang.

In Nature as well as in Science, the simplest solution is nearly always right one. The notion of a God is far from simple, whereas the notion of a spontaneous spark is as simple as you're likely to get.

As for life? That goes into the realms of philosophy. What do you define as 'life'? A rock - especially a fossil will have all the same building blocks & chemistry as we do, but it is clearly not alive, but no-one can deny that it once was so. There are only a limited number of (known) elements & most of these are found in everything we would consider to be 'life', but they also appear in those which we would not.

The philosophy of Reincarnation isn't necessarily so far fetched. Think of 'life' as being an energy force. It is the presence of this force that determines the difference in a combination of elements from being animate & inanimate. When a life form dies that energy force is passed one down the food chain to sustain the other life forms that get their sustenance from that life force. This is, after all, a form of reincarnation. The idea can also lead on to the Spiritual. What if a lifeform dies suddenly & that life energy has nowhere to go? Could that disembodied energy be what some might refer to as a 'ghost'.

You see, these are not claimed to be facts, merely hpothetical scenarios based on what is observed combined with folklore, and before you know it the seed of a Religion is born.
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Post by rstrats »

FourPart,

You have a question directed to you in post #588.
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Post by FourPart »

rstrats;1520157 wrote: FourPart,

You have a question directed to you in post #588.


Quite simple. You are indoctrinated with the stories as a child. You either choose to take them at face value or you choose to question the reasoning behind it. Either way it is a choice. A concious decision. When you watch a stage magician do you believe that he really has the magical powers that he is demonstrating, or do you question how he does it? If you believe in a God & Miracles you are essentially just the former.
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Post by rstrats »

FourPart,

Did you consciously engender a belief in leprechauns?
Ted
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Post by Ted »

Interesting that some are speaking of theists. I am a Christian but I am not a theist. The best term might be agnostic but that is not really where it's at for me.
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Post by Mickiel »

LarsMac;1520143 wrote: Why do you think that they do not occur today?


Because the science says they do not form in our time, only our distant past.
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1520150 wrote: At least on that we are agreed. On the Origin of the Universe Theism are not necessarily quite so much in conflict.

We agree on the point of the Big Bang having occured. Anything after that point is moot. It is accepted it happened & went on to develop from there. The only point where we differ is as to what the cause of the Big Bang was. My personal belief is that it was a matter of random occurence that caused a spontaneous spark which triggered a major chain reaction. The Theistic side is that of some kind of intelligent Deity that existed before time itself in a realm that didn't even exist at that point (as we have already agreed that the beginning of all would have been the Big Bang.

In Nature as well as in Science, the simplest solution is nearly always right one. The notion of a God is far from simple, whereas the notion of a spontaneous spark is as simple as you're likely to get.

As for life? That goes into the realms of philosophy. What do you define as 'life'? A rock - especially a fossil will have all the same building blocks & chemistry as we do, but it is clearly not alive, but no-one can deny that it once was so. There are only a limited number of (known) elements & most of these are found in everything we would consider to be 'life', but they also appear in those which we would not.

The philosophy of Reincarnation isn't necessarily so far fetched. Think of 'life' as being an energy force. It is the presence of this force that determines the difference in a combination of elements from being animate & inanimate. When a life form dies that energy force is passed one down the food chain to sustain the other life forms that get their sustenance from that life force. This is, after all, a form of reincarnation. The idea can also lead on to the Spiritual. What if a lifeform dies suddenly & that life energy has nowhere to go? Could that disembodied energy be what some might refer to as a 'ghost'.

You see, these are not claimed to be facts, merely hpothetical scenarios based on what is observed combined with folklore, and before you know it the seed of a Religion is born.


A spontaneous spark cannot bring itself into existence, since it must first exist to bring itself into existence. This IS as simple as it gets. So when one reasons as you do, then science becomes a religion itself, because some of its theory's are raw deals.
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Post by Mickiel »

Ted;1520201 wrote: Interesting that some are speaking of theists. I am a Christian but I am not a theist. The best term might be agnostic but that is not really where it's at for me.


I am not a Christian, but I am a theist. I definitely believe in a God.
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Post by Mickiel »

LarsMac;1520143 wrote: Why do you think that they do not occur today?


Some may form, but far and distant from us. But some scientist think a quasar will one day eat up our milky way, and form together with us.
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1520150 wrote: At least on that we are agreed. On the Origin of the Universe Theism are not necessarily quite so much in conflict.

We agree on the point of the Big Bang having occured. Anything after that point is moot. It is accepted it happened & went on to develop from there. The only point where we differ is as to what the cause of the Big Bang was. My personal belief is that it was a matter of random occurence that caused a spontaneous spark which triggered a major chain reaction. The Theistic side is that of some kind of intelligent Deity that existed before time itself in a realm that didn't even exist at that point (as we have already agreed that the beginning of all would have been the Big Bang.

In Nature as well as in Science, the simplest solution is nearly always right one. The notion of a God is far from simple, whereas the notion of a spontaneous spark is as simple as you're likely to get.

As for life? That goes into the realms of philosophy. What do you define as 'life'? A rock - especially a fossil will have all the same building blocks & chemistry as we do, but it is clearly not alive, but no-one can deny that it once was so. There are only a limited number of (known) elements & most of these are found in everything we would consider to be 'life', but they also appear in those which we would not.

The philosophy of Reincarnation isn't necessarily so far fetched. Think of 'life' as being an energy force. It is the presence of this force that determines the difference in a combination of elements from being animate & inanimate. When a life form dies that energy force is passed one down the food chain to sustain the other life forms that get their sustenance from that life force. This is, after all, a form of reincarnation. The idea can also lead on to the Spiritual. What if a lifeform dies suddenly & that life energy has nowhere to go? Could that disembodied energy be what some might refer to as a 'ghost'.

You see, these are not claimed to be facts, merely hpothetical scenarios based on what is observed combined with folklore, and before you know it the seed of a Religion is born.


I think life is a being that lives and is in motion. Conscious life is far different than average life, because now the being is thinking. Its mind is in motion, it has a mind of its own. I think some rocks were once alive , being Molton lava that now cools, but has life on it and in it. And islands are created that have incredible life.
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Post by Mickiel »

Mickiel;1520216 wrote: I think life is a being that lives and is in motion. Conscious life is far different than average life, because now the being is thinking. Its mind is in motion, it has a mind of its own. I think some rocks were once alive , being Molton lava that now cools, but has life on it and in it. And islands are created that have incredible life.


Life has taken the chemistry of the earth and made it it's own.
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Post by Mickiel »

Mickiel;1520230 wrote: Life has taken the chemistry of the earth and made it it's own.


Life hyjacks the earth chemicals and feeds the world with its own art.
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Post by Ted »

A lot of people including several scientists simply have little to no idea about the nature of religion. They pick and choose as much as the fundamentalists. Thus we do have evangelical atheists. I am a Christian but I am not a theist.
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Post by Mickiel »

Ted;1520243 wrote: A lot of people including several scientists simply have little to no idea about the nature of religion. They pick and choose as much as the fundamentalists. Thus we do have evangelical atheists. I am a Christian but I am not a theist.


I am a believer and I have no idea what the nature of religion is.
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Post by Ted »

Mickiel right on. Try reading so academic sources. "Fields of Blood" by Karen Armstrong is one example.
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Post by Ted »

Mickiel with all due respect I suggest you read Karen Armstrong's book "Fields of Blood"/
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Mickiel;1520212 wrote: Because the science says they do not form in our time, only our distant past.


I believe that the science says that in order to produce a Quasar you need a collision between galaxies one of which has a supermassive black hole at its centre.

Given that astrophysicists now believe that most galaxies have a supermassive black hole at their centre a quasar could be formed wherever two galaxies collide but, given the expanding universe, this was much more common in the distant past.

So, whilst the probability is dropping there is nothing stopping it happening.
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Post by LarsMac »

Bryn Mawr;1520304 wrote: I believe that the science says that in order to produce a Quasar you need a collision between galaxies one of which has a supermassive black hole at its centre.

Given that astrophysicists now believe that most galaxies have a supermassive black hole at their centre a quasar could be formed wherever two galaxies collide but, given the expanding universe, this was much more common in the distant past.

So, whilst the probability is dropping there is nothing stopping it happening.


Well, even if one "formed in our time", unless it was our own Universe, it will likely be a few centuries before we find out about it.

I don't plan on sticking around that long.
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Post by Mickiel »

If one formed in our galaxy it could be disastrous . a quasar forming now is possible but the science seems to doubt it.
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Post by Ted »

Most of the appropriate scientits have no doubt.
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Post by LarsMac »

Mickiel;1520328 wrote: If one formed in our galaxy it could be disastrous . a quasar forming now is possible but the science seems to doubt it.


Our galaxy is not near dense enough, according to current theories on the things.
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Post by Mickiel »

LarsMac;1520341 wrote: Our galaxy is not near dense enough, according to current theories on the things.


On another note. I think GOD Used

Quasars to create our known universe. He used more than one. So it was more than just one big bang. Proof that land and life can evolve from destruction. ? The Quasars blow themselves into position and begin to create mass and gas is created. The Quasar then sucks all the gas out of the mass. Then expels the gas. Destroying the mass then begins to reproduce new ones. So there was more than just one big bang perhaps hundreds of them.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

LarsMac;1520310 wrote: Well, even if one "formed in our time", unless it was our own Universe, it will likely be a few centuries before we find out about it.

I don't plan on sticking around that long.


Ah, but if one formed a few hundred years ago in a nearby galaxy then it could appear to strike up tomorrow :-)

But seriously, I think we'd have noticed if two nearby galaxies were in the process of colliding.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Mickiel;1520345 wrote: On another note. I think GOD Used

Quasars to create our known universe. He used more than one. So it was more than just one big bang. Proof that land and life can evolve from destruction. ? The Quasars blow themselves into position and begin to create mass and gas is created. The Quasar then sucks all the gas out of the mass. Then expels the gas. Destroying the mass then begins to reproduce new ones. So there was more than just one big bang perhaps hundreds of them.


Sorry to disagree but quasars neither create nor destroy mass, they only redistribute it.
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Post by Mickiel »

Bryn Mawr;1520349 wrote: Sorry to disagree but quasars neither create nor destroy mass, they only redistribute it.


Then they are our largest distribution to the galaxies no doubt.
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Post by Mickiel »

Bryn Mawr;1520349 wrote: Sorry to disagree but quasars neither create nor destroy mass, they only redistribute it.


Oh by the way, quasars do create stars. I think that is the latest science. Look it up.
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Post by Mickiel »

The fear of a non religious site being considered religious would certainly be a taboo wouldn't it? I talk about God often so I am constantly considered to be a religious man. Which I don't mind. I just know it's going to always be part of the judgment. I will not grieve over it. The world won't grieve. Are we afraid of people or their beliefs?

Is religion a hole in your head or mine?

And is it still the opiate of the people?
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Post by Mickiel »

Mickiel;1520384 wrote: The fear of a non religious site being considered religious would certainly be a taboo wouldn't it? I talk about God often so I am constantly considered to be a religious man. Which I don't mind. I just know it's going to always be part of the judgment. I will not grieve over it. The world won't grieve. Are we afraid of people or their beliefs?

Is religion a hole in your head or mine?

And is it still the opiate of the people?


The opiate of the "feeling people." Does one have to "feel" religion? Or has even religion grown cold?
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Post by FourPart »

Mickiel;1520355 wrote: Oh by the way, quasars do create stars. I think that is the latest science. Look it up.


"Creating" stars is a misleading term, as it implies that it is making something out of nothing. On the contrary. Quasars are believed to draw in Solar Matter which then go into making the stars as part of the evolution of galaxies. Quasars are also believed to contain Black Holes, which contain infinitely dense amounts of matter - the potential source for repeated Big Bangs. It is also a theory that the Universe has previously collapsed in on itself by way of quasars & black holes & having folded in on itself then explodes & starts all over again.
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1520534 wrote: "Creating" stars is a misleading term, as it implies that it is making something out of nothing. On the contrary. Quasars are believed to draw in Solar Matter which then go into making the stars as part of the evolution of galaxies. Quasars are also believed to contain Black Holes, which contain infinitely dense amounts of matter - the potential source for repeated Big Bangs. It is also a theory that the Universe has previously collapsed in on itself by way of quasars & black holes & having folded in on itself then explodes & starts all over again.


I would like to see a quasar.
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Post by Mickiel »

Mickiel;1520547 wrote: I would like to see a quasar.


I think God Used Quasars in helping create the universe. And I don't think he's. Finished just yet. A Quasar is a great power; and when I see great power anywhere , i always suspect God.
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Post by Ted »

Evolution is an ongoing process that will continue to whatever is its ultimate end. Creating is still occurring.
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Post by Mickiel »

Ted;1520758 wrote: Evolution is an ongoing process that will continue to whatever is its ultimate end. Creating is still occurring.


I think so myself , we are still evolving especially in our consciousness. The spirit in man is still evolving. Still learning and going through changes.
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Post by Ted »

It is also good to remember that religion has been a feature in most of human history. What is there to fear? As an edition I consider myself a Christian though I do not consider myself a Theist.
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Post by Mickiel »

I think we should have a respectful fear of getting this thing right. And I hold a respectful fear of God himself. But that's just me and how I see it as of now.
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Post by Mickiel »

The fear of this site being considered as a religious site is understood by me , the projected image they have in mind is their right . But it's just another fear to me which I see in my observation.
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Post by FourPart »

The theory behind Christianity is fine, as it is essentially a Socialist Philosophy. However, the myths behind it being the result of some divinity is just that - a myth. As for fear of the site becoming Religious. It's not a fear, but a contempt of the same few posters who would try to make it so, enforcing their own beliefs upon everyone else, which is typical of how Christianity has spread - enforcement rather than as role models.
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1520777 wrote: The theory behind Christianity is fine, as it is essentially a Socialist Philosophy. However, the myths behind it being the result of some divinity is just that - a myth. As for fear of the site becoming Religious. It's not a fear, but a contempt of the same few posters who would try to make it so, enforcing their own beliefs upon everyone else, which is typical of how Christianity has spread - enforcement rather than as role models.


I don't agree with Christianity , in my view they are in bad shape , and don't even know it. Its the seduction of the Christian mind. And that was meant to be. There are over 40,000 different Christian denominations and they are not in total agreement. Religion itself is just lost and turned out.

Philosophy and the fusion of new members bringing their different views into the church is what has confused Christianity, and they absorbed too much paganism.
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