Should we ban the indoctrination and brainwashing of children by religions? Is it chi

[AnneBoleyn]

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1490950 wrote: Strange that some Muslim countries will not allow ( the respected ), to build churches in their countries. Islam/Muslims only respects Sharia.

You have yet to ponder.

Regards

DL


Not strange at all, nothing to ponder. They are fanatics, want to keep their people enslaved in thought & deed, with no competition of ideas.

Their respect is for a book, but not it's teachings, which they acquired to make their own.

[gmc]

Well it's now official schools in england have to teach that religion is the only world view

Schools must teach that Britain is 'mainly Christian' and need not cover atheism, says Nicky Morgan | Education | News | The Independent

Nicky Morgan, the Education Secretary, has sidestepped a High Court ruling which found she unlawfully excluded atheism from the school curriculum.


Problem comes when they get to teaching about the enlightenment or maybe they wonl;t mention that at all since clearly it has failed and we are still a religious non-secukar country.

Next they'll be teaching that the queen was anointed by god and can overrule parliament.

[Ted]

In my view the only type of religion that should be taught is the role that religion has played in society down through the ages. They could look at all the major religions.

[Fuzzy]

I went through public school being taught religious nonsense. The only thing it taught me was that it is not the truth.:-2

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Bryn Mawr;1490951 wrote: So any form of religious training is abuse or indoctrination/brainwashing?


When based on lies and the supernatural, I would say yes.

There are good reasons for the church to say ----

Martin Luther.

“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”

“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

And.

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet



Regards

DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

LarsMac;1490985 wrote: Same with my family church experience. No fear. Simply demonstrating the love and compassion of God to those around us. The Fire and Brimstone stuff was for the wackos.


70% or Americans must be wackos.

Eternal Destinations: Americans Believe in Heaven, Hell

Regards

DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

gmc;1490994 wrote: Well it's now official schools in england have to teach that religion is the only world view

Schools must teach that Britain is 'mainly Christian' and need not cover atheism, says Nicky Morgan | Education | News | The Independent



Problem comes when they get to teaching about the enlightenment or maybe they wonl;t mention that at all since clearly it has failed and we are still a religious non-secukar country.

Next they'll be teaching that the queen was anointed by god and can overrule parliament.


Strange that the Queen, --- who heads the Church of England, --- could not be elected to its highest office.

Even the Queen is a second class citizen to her church.

Morgan deserves to be fired.

Regards

DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

AnneBoleyn;1490988 wrote: Not strange at all, nothing to ponder. They are fanatics, want to keep their people enslaved in thought & deed, with no competition of ideas.

Their respect is for a book, but not it's teachings, which they acquired to make their own.


They want the same for the whole world and are pushing for protection from blasphemous truth.



Regards

DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Ted;1491237 wrote: In my view the only type of religion that should be taught is the role that religion has played in society down through the ages. They could look at all the major religions.


Comparative religions is a worthy topic for sure.

Inform without preaching any belief.

Regards

DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Fuzzy;1491253 wrote: I went through public school being taught religious nonsense. The only thing it taught me was that it is not the truth.:-2


All who value truth will reject the teachings of the idol worshiping cults like Christianity and Islam.

Regards

DL

[Ted]

A lot of folks claim to have the sole handle on the truth. In my view no one church or group has a handle on religious truth. They think they have.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Ted;1491470 wrote: A lot of folks claim to have the sole handle on the truth. In my view no one church or group has a handle on religious truth. They think they have.


They, like all believers, are delusional.

That is why Jesus said to seek God. No one seeks God any longer.

Idol worship is all we now have in Christianity and Islam and look at all the crap that has caused over time.

Regards

DL

[Ted]

Unfortunately it is the same old same old.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Ted;1491495 wrote: Unfortunately it is the same old same old.


Indeed. Inquisition has a new name called jihad.

God damned religions, both.

Regards

DL

[Smaug]

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1491476 wrote: They, like all believers, are delusional.

That is why Jesus said to seek God. No one seeks God any longer.

Idol worship is all we now have in Christianity and Islam and look at all the crap that has caused over time.

Regards

DL


Delusional or not, I would agree that Man's INTERPRETATIONS and religious stances over time have indeed caused most of the bloodshed,upset and turmoil in the world. Pity we can't all agree to disagree in a civilized manner!

[Ted]

An actual study show this to be wrong. Yes religion was implicated in some atrocities but there has been many more atrocities by non religious people. Diana Butler Bass.

[AnneBoleyn]

Ted;1491537 wrote: An actual study show this to be wrong. Yes religion was implicated in some atrocities but there has been many more atrocities by non religious people. Diana Butler Bass.


Who? Pol Pot? Mao? Help me out in this.

[Smaug]

Ted;1491537 wrote: An actual study show this to be wrong. Yes religion was implicated in some atrocities but there has been many more atrocities by non religious people. Diana Butler Bass.


And religion is STILL causing much bloodshed world-wide! How many people have the fundamentalist followers of Islam murdered in the name of Allah/Islam in the last 12 moths alone? And in a needlessly barbaric manner to boot....

[Bryn Mawr]

Smaug;1491558 wrote: And religion is STILL causing much bloodshed world-wide! How many people have the fundamentalist followers of Islam murdered in the name of Allah/Islam in the last 12 moths alone? And in a needlessly barbaric manner to boot....


And how many innocent citizens of Iraq died as a direct result of our illegal invasion? Over a million at the last count and still rising.

[Ted]

What should be our response when tyrants are murdering innocent people or torturing them?

[Bryn Mawr]

Ted;1491573 wrote: What should be our response when tyrants are murdering innocent people or torturing them?


Not to have provided them with the weapons of mass destruction in the first place!

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Smaug;1491529 wrote: Delusional or not, I would agree that Man's INTERPRETATIONS and religious stances over time have indeed caused most of the bloodshed,upset and turmoil in the world. Pity we can't all agree to disagree in a civilized manner!


We have at various times in history but then demographics change and insecure people start to fight.

Spain for instance, before the Inquisition, saw the various Abrahamic cults even sharing churches and mosques.

Regards

DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Ted;1491573 wrote: What should be our response when tyrants are murdering innocent people or torturing them?


Our response to Saudi Arabia seems to be all kisses and hugs. Just man to man though as they will not even shake hands with the wife of President Obama.

Regards

DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Bryn Mawr;1491575 wrote: Not to have provided them with the weapons of mass destruction in the first place!


Balance of trade.

They do not want anything else from us and it seems to serve the West well to have Muslims killing Muslims.

Regards

DL

[Bryn Mawr]

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1491583 wrote: We have at various times in history but then demographics change and insecure people start to fight.

Spain for instance, before the Inquisition, saw the various Abrahamic cults even sharing churches and mosques.

Regards

DL


Interesting times those, when Christians Jews and Muslims shared a multicultural society of tolerance and equality under Islamic rulers.

It was such a shame that, when the Christians took back control they massacred the Muslims and expelled the Jews.

[Bryn Mawr]

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1491586 wrote: Balance of trade.

They do not want anything else from us and it seems to serve the West well to have Muslims killing Muslims.

Regards

DL


What has balance of trade to do with it? The West sold Saddam the chemical weapons and then used the fact that he had them the prime cause for the invasion and the fact that he'd used them as the excuse to execute him. Logs and eyeballs spring to mind.

[Ted]

The west has not been kind to the middle east. I think it is called greed.

[Smaug]

Bryn Mawr;1491565 wrote: And how many innocent citizens of Iraq died as a direct result of our illegal invasion? Over a million at the last count and still rising.


Agreed! And all because our Parliament was lied to by Bush/Blair over weapons of mass destruction....Parliament is the living embodiment of an easily corruptible organization with far to much power controlled by far too few individuals! A perfect recipe for disaster....

URGENT REFORM REQUIRED!

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Bryn Mawr;1491592 wrote: Interesting times those, when Christians Jews and Muslims shared a multicultural society of tolerance and equality under Islamic rulers.

It was such a shame that, when the Christians took back control they massacred the Muslims and expelled the Jews.


Tolerance in both Christianity and Islam is a fleeting thing.

Neither religion is worthy of our respect yet both are thriving.

That is how immoral people are and our governments are allowing it. A de-stabled population of poor morality is easy to control as compared to a moral stable one.

MEMRI: Tunisian Professor Amel Grami: Homosexuality Emerged from Our Heritage

People live to hate and politicians, priests and imams are in the hate creation business.

Regards

DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Bryn Mawr;1491594 wrote: What has balance of trade to do with it? The West sold Saddam the chemical weapons and then used the fact that he had them the prime cause for the invasion and the fact that he'd used them as the excuse to execute him. Logs and eyeballs spring to mind.


That was my point. The West sold it so as to get some of their money back.

You do know what balance of trade is I hope.

Regards

DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Ted;1491595 wrote: The west has not been kind to the middle east. I think it is called greed.


The world, more or less, looks like this graph shows.

9 out of 10 Americans are completely wrong about this mind-blowing fact.

That is real and visible greed that all can see yet we are collectively doing nothing about it.

We the masses are getting the kind of government we deserve.

Unless the masses decide to remedy things, they will never be set right.

If we do not bring our socio economical demographic pyramid to a more moral shape, things will never improve.

Regards

DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Smaug;1491623 wrote: Agreed! And all because our Parliament was lied to by Bush/Blair over weapons of mass destruction....Parliament is the living embodiment of an easily corruptible organization with far to much power controlled by far too few individuals! A perfect recipe for disaster....

URGENT REFORM REQUIRED!


Changing the talking heads that are owned and controlled by their oligarch owners is not doing us much good over time.

How would you reform an end to our oligarchies so as to make them truly democratic when the oligarch control the schools, media and governments?

How do you depose those who are not even elected?

Regards

DL

[Smaug]

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1491639 wrote: Changing the talking heads that are owned and controlled by their oligarch owners is not doing us much good over time.

How would you reform an end to our oligarchies so as to make them truly democratic when the oligarch control the schools, media and governments?

How do you depose those who are not even elected?

Regards

DL


How could an Oligarch influence millions of people? It's easy enough to influence and manipulate the thoght processes of 650-odd MP's weilding centralized power (such as Parliament), but it's a whole different 'ballgame' trying that with a free voting population numbering tens of millions, would you not agree? The trouble with small numbers of 'men' holding vast quantities of power is precisely that it's easy to corrupt them, as all the 'eggs are in one basket', so-to-speak.

Divide that power up amongst the entire voting population and BANG goes the 'string-pulling' ability of the Oligarchs....!

No need to depose the Oligarchs, they are now effectively excluded......

And for these reasons you can be sure that major reform will be resisted 'beak and claw' by those who stand to lose their hold on society!

As for the media, it's always sung to the tune of whatever Oligarch or political party that owns or funds it. That'll never change.

[Bryn Mawr]

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1491636 wrote: That was my point. The West sold it so as to get some of their money back.

You do know what balance of trade is I hope.

Regards

DL


And you do know what a trifling amount that transaction was in terms of the balance of trade?

As a cause for the transaction it doesn't even register at the bottom of the scale.

[Bryn Mawr]

Smaug;1491643 wrote: How could an Oligarch influence millions of people? It's easy enough to influence and manipulate the thoght processes of 650-odd MP's weilding centralized power (such as Parliament), but it's a whole different 'ballgame' trying that with a free voting population numbering tens of millions, would you not agree? The trouble with small numbers of 'men' holding vast quantities of power is precisely that it's easy to corrupt them, as all the 'eggs are in one basket', so-to-speak.

Divide that power up amongst the entire voting population and BANG goes the 'string-pulling' ability of the Oligarchs....!

No need to depose the Oligarchs, they are now effectively excluded......

And for these reasons you can be sure that major reform will be resisted 'beak and claw' by those who stand to lose their hold on society!

As for the media, it's always sung to the tune of whatever Oligarch or political party that owns or funds it. That'll never change.


Sadly, I cannot agree with that.

There is a large percentage of our population who are too lazy to think for themselves, they are easily influenced by the media and can be stampeded into following the crowd by distorted reporting. This effect is sufficiently large that the outcome of any referendum is more a question of who controls the media than it is of the details of the problem being addressed.

Just look at the media scare tactics used in the Scottish Devolution debate if you don't believe me - and the EU In/Out referendum will be a doozy, just watch the misinformation fly.

[Smaug]

Bryn Mawr;1491650 wrote: Sadly, I cannot agree with that.

There is a large percentage of our population who are too lazy to think for themselves, they are easily influenced by the media and can be stampeded into following the crowd by distorted reporting. This effect is sufficiently large that the outcome of any referendum is more a question of who controls the media than it is of the details of the problem being addressed.

Just look at the media scare tactics used in the Scottish Devolution debate if you don't believe me - and the EU In/Out referendum will be a doozy, just watch the misinformation fly.


And where do you think this misinformation will come from? It will indeed come from the politically/Oligarch controlled media. I don't see that the people of this country could make a worse mess of things than the corrupt political elite have done to date. There are quite a few decent, free-thinking individuals in this country who are NOT fooled by the political chicanery indulged in by Parliament, as evinced by the protests about the illegal war in Iraq that millions took part in, and the dubious 'value'of being part of the EU. People need to be given a better choice if we are to survive as a viable, free society. If not, we'll probably degenerate into a divided, tawdry industrial dictatorship, or a strife-torn third-world nation of precious little importance ripe for conquest/subjugation by one aggressor or another.

Is this the future you would like for this country and it's people? If things don't change, it's the one you'll more than likely get. Action has consequences, but so does inaction!

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Smaug;1491643 wrote: How could an Oligarch influence millions of people? It's easy enough to influence and manipulate the thoght processes of 650-odd MP's weilding centralized power (such as Parliament), but it's a whole different 'ballgame' trying that with a free voting population numbering tens of millions, would you not agree? The trouble with small numbers of 'men' holding vast quantities of power is precisely that it's easy to corrupt them, as all the 'eggs are in one basket', so-to-speak.

Divide that power up amongst the entire voting population and BANG goes the 'string-pulling' ability of the Oligarchs....!

No need to depose the Oligarchs, they are now effectively excluded......

And for these reasons you can be sure that major reform will be resisted 'beak and claw' by those who stand to lose their hold on society!

As for the media, it's always sung to the tune of whatever Oligarch or political party that owns or funds it. That'll never change.


Your last answers your question on "How could an Oligarch influence millions of people?"

Just a few oligarchs control the media and the media controls the thinking, or the lack of thinking, of the people.

Have you heard George Carlin on this issue?



Regards

DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Bryn Mawr;1491649 wrote: And you do know what a trifling amount that transaction was in terms of the balance of trade?

As a cause for the transaction it doesn't even register at the bottom of the scale.


I don't know how significant it is but for every dollar Saudi spends on arms, the less they are spending on export of their ideology so double the bonus for the West.



Regards

DL

[Smaug]

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1491671 wrote: Your last answers your question on "How could an Oligarch influence millions of people?"

Just a few oligarchs control the media and the media controls the thinking, or the lack of thinking, of the people.

Have you heard George Carlin on this issue?



Regards

DL


That's absolutely 'bang on', GCB! He's an intelligent guy who sees straight through the charade. There are quite a few folk who see things in a similar light ( I would include you and I in that list...) so I won't give up hope for an eventual solution to the many woes that beset us just yet. It's the same in the UK my friend (unsurprising as our bastard half-brother countries do seem to be 'joined at the hip' in so many ways....)

Power to the people I say. The intelligent will more than likely vote in a reformed system, whereas the lazy/apathetic/uneducated/unintelligent will probably continue not bothering, same as now, which would definitely improve the quality of the decisions taken! That's why I advocate 'swipe card voting' on political issues. People such as you, me and Mr. Carlin are not fooled by Oligarchs, their political 'glove puppets', or the media controlled by them because we are capable of 'reading between the lines'.

[Bryn Mawr]

Smaug;1491670 wrote: And where do you think this misinformation will come from? It will indeed come from the politically/Oligarch controlled media. I don't see that the people of this country could make a worse mess of things than the corrupt political elite have done to date. There are quite a few decent, free-thinking individuals in this country who are NOT fooled by the political chicanery indulged in by Parliament, as evinced by the protests about the illegal war in Iraq that millions took part in, and the dubious 'value'of being part of the EU. People need to be given a better choice if we are to survive as a viable, free society. If not, we'll probably degenerate into a divided, tawdry industrial dictatorship, or a strife-torn third-world nation of precious little importance ripe for conquest/subjugation by one aggressor or another.

Is this the future you would like for this country and it's people? If things don't change, it's the one you'll more than likely get. Action has consequences, but so does inaction!


Obviously it would come from the controlling interests but it would be far worse than current - at least now we can attempt to hold them accountable, with rule by referendum they still get control but they can say "but you chose it that way".

The few decent, free thinking, individuals would be pissing against the wind - they'd be outvoted by the morons every time.

[Smaug]

Bryn Mawr;1491676 wrote: Obviously it would come from the controlling interests but it would be far worse than current - at least now we can attempt to hold them accountable, with rule by referendum they still get control but they can say "but you chose it that way".

The few decent, free thinking, individuals would be pissing against the wind - they'd be outvoted by the morons every time.


I would dispute that, judging by the turnout at election time! Plus, it would certainly be no worse than now;-the only say we have at present is to decide which party of political monsters we want to be abused by (in our name, by our choice) this time! Some choice....

[Ted]

Human rights should dictate what is done. No referendum, no vote. Commons sense should be the rule along with human rights..

[Smaug]

Ted;1491683 wrote: Human rights should dictate what is done. No referendum, no vote. Commons sense should be the rule along with human rights..


High time for ordinary people to have their say, right OR wrong, rather than Oligarchs and their political 'glove puppets', supposedly acting 'in our name', methinks! Ethics and the humanities might start to make an appearance then.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Smaug;1491675 wrote: That's absolutely 'bang on', GCB! He's an intelligent guy who sees straight through the charade. There are quite a few folk who see things in a similar light ( I would include you and I in that list...) so I won't give up hope for an eventual solution to the many woes that beset us just yet. It's the same in the UK my friend (unsurprising as our bastard half-brother countries do seem to be 'joined at the hip' in so many ways....)

Power to the people I say. The intelligent will more than likely vote in a reformed system, whereas the lazy/apathetic/uneducated/unintelligent will probably continue not bothering, same as now, which would definitely improve the quality of the decisions taken! That's why I advocate 'swipe card voting' on political issues. People such as you, me and Mr. Carlin are not fooled by Oligarchs, their political 'glove puppets', or the media controlled by them because we are capable of 'reading between the lines'.


No argument except that the lazy/apathetic/uneducated/unintelligent do get manipulated by the media and do vote.

Point. -- George Bush was elected twice.

That is why it is a slow road for the intelligentsia. Not that I put myself in that category as I was not educated anywhere near enough. I do not think that I am particularly stupid though and like to think I can think on my feet.

If not for that ability of self education in all of us to some extent, the world would be a lot worse and few would be talking about our owners.

I just picked us this piece on the economy that shows the injustice of it and the governments that have allowed it.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/r ... -1.2500284

Regards

DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Bryn Mawr;1491676 wrote: Obviously it would come from the controlling interests but it would be far worse than current - at least now we can attempt to hold them accountable, with rule by referendum they still get control but they can say "but you chose it that way".

The few decent, free thinking, individuals would be pissing against the wind - they'd be outvoted by the morons every time.


As the world gets more educated, intelligence will win out. You just gotta have -----



Regards

DL

[Ted]

Will it win out? Not too likely as the chance of a higher education is becoming only available to the rich. Keep the masses ignorant but that only works so long.

[Bryn Mawr]

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1491704 wrote: As the world gets more educated, intelligence will win out. You just gotta have -----



Regards

DL


In my lifetime? No way!

I my great grandkids lifetime maybe.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Ted;1491718 wrote: Will it win out? Not too likely as the chance of a higher education is becoming only available to the rich. Keep the masses ignorant but that only works so long.


Yes it will win out because the world and its education level cannot be halted. It can only be slowed down. You will note that in some more disciplined societies, notably in Asian countries, education talks a much higher priority than in some Western societies who actually try to dumb down the general population.

The more we take people out of poverty, the more want an education.

Education is a part of our fitness and our instincts push us to be the fittest we can be.

Being dumb and dumbed down as a virtue is only a Christian way of thinking. They are the only ones who think it a curse to seek the knowledge of good and evil, which is basically the knowledge of everything, because of their religious indoctrination. That is close to insanity in my book.

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

Regards

DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Bryn Mawr;1491725 wrote: In my lifetime? No way!

I my great grandkids lifetime maybe.


They are saying that knowledge is doubling every, what was it, 10 years.

This link says every 12 months but I do not believe it.

Knowledge Doubling Every 12 Months, Soon to be Every 12 Hours - Industry Tap

Regards

DL

[Bryn Mawr]

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1491731 wrote: They are saying that knowledge is doubling every, what was it, 10 years.

This link says every 12 months but I do not believe it.

Knowledge Doubling Every 12 Months, Soon to be Every 12 Hours - Industry Tap

Regards

DL


That is the knowledge (more likely information) held by society as a whole, in no way is it the knowledge held be each and every individual within that society and even less is it the intelligence of those individuals.

In short, it has nothing to do with what was being discussed.