Why does God not follow the Golden Rule? His best rule?

Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:16 am

Ted;1484243 wrote: Your judgement on the Ten Commandments is purely a judgement in hind site which is not valid in this situation. Which God are you emulating the war God of the OT or the God manifest in one Jesus of Nazareth?. In my view our highest moral is to be a servant of all.

I agree and you will note that Yahweh wanted to be served and not serve even though Jesus said he came to serve.

My judgement is not with hind sight. It is judging them today for what they are.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:17 pm

To say the Bible is full of lies is simply a non-starter. The people who wrote the various parts of the scriptures were interpreting their experiences. Something bad happened the people had sinned and were punished and those who did good and positive things were thought to receive God's blessing. Right or wrong is not the question. That is how they interpreted what happen with an ancient conceptualizing ability and and a language wich simply was unable to let them go further. The actually believe those things though many understood midrash and its use of metaphor. Yes the Bible has been added to subtracted and changed and many for the right reasons in their minds. Number 31 is a good example. That is what they believed God told them to do.Judging antiquity on the basis of 21st century knowledge is a non starter. It is in my experiences simply ludicrous. But some people get off on that.

Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:11 pm

Ted;1484293 wrote: To say the Bible is full of lies is simply a non-starter. The people who wrote the various parts of the scriptures were interpreting their experiences. Something bad happened the people had sinned and were punished and those who did good and positive things were thought to receive God's blessing. Right or wrong is not the question. That is how they interpreted what happen with an ancient conceptualizing ability and and a language wich simply was unable to let them go further. The actually believe those things though many understood midrash and its use of metaphor. Yes the Bible has been added to subtracted and changed and many for the right reasons in their minds. Number 31 is a good example. That is what they believed God told them to do.Judging antiquity on the basis of 21st century knowledge is a non starter. It is in my experiences simply ludicrous. But some people get off on that.

If read literally, it is a bunch of lies.

If read as myth then I basically agree with your description but would point out that the ancients produced most of the concepts we use today and to say that they were not quite bright would be wrong.

I don't know if you have read Socrates and other philosophers but even their use of language, rhetoric, tautology, numerology in scriptures etc., show quite clearly that they were quite bright.

look at how long it took us to dither out how they built the pyramids and we still don't know how some huge stones were moved as we cannot reproduce what they did today.

I respect our ancients because they deserve it.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:22 am

First of all I have said elsewhere that their was nothing wrong with their intelligence. No they did not have the conceptualizing ability we do because they lacked the knowledge we have today. I fail to see how you can say if read literally it is full of lies and read properly to say it is not full of lies. Because some one takes it one way and someone else takes it another do not alter what the Bible is saying. The fault is not with the Bible and certainly not the folks. Who is to say what reading it properly is.. The Jews probably. But there are multiple valid interpretations to be found therein.

Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:11 pm

Ted;1484413 wrote: First of all I have said elsewhere that their was nothing wrong with their intelligence. No they did not have the conceptualizing ability we do because they lacked the knowledge we have today. I fail to see how you can say if read literally it is full of lies and read properly to say it is not full of lies. Because some one takes it one way and someone else takes it another do not alter what the Bible is saying. The fault is not with the Bible and certainly not the folks. Who is to say what reading it properly is.. The Jews probably. But there are multiple valid interpretations to be found therein.

If read as a myth, for sure.

If read literally then I continue to maintain that it shows a bunch of lies.

For instance. Talking snakes and donkeys, if read literally are lies. There are no such thing.

If read as myth, then there are the multiple valid interpretations that you speak of.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:11 pm

Not lies at all. They are just misguided ast to how it should be interpreted but that too is ok since the Jewish scholars tell us there is no one correct interpretation but they are all valid. That is a failure to understand ancient Jewish thinking. Changes in the reading and interpretation began in or about the year 300 (John Spong) Misguided people are not generally considered liars. The written book cannot be considered a liar. I think a true ecumenist would recognize that fact. In fact is "misguided" even a valid interpretation since may and all interpretations can and are valid. I personally don't agree with those who read the Bible literally.

Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:53 pm

Ted;1484572 wrote: Not lies at all. They are just misguided ast to how it should be interpreted but that too is ok since the Jewish scholars tell us there is no one correct interpretation but they are all valid. That is a failure to understand ancient Jewish thinking. Changes in the reading and interpretation began in or about the year 300 (John Spong) Misguided people are not generally considered liars. The written book cannot be considered a liar. I think a true ecumenist would recognize that fact. In fact is "misguided" even a valid interpretation since may and all interpretations can and are valid. I personally don't agree with those who read the Bible literally.

Certainly a written book can be considered full of lies. That is why the Jews follow their oral tradition over the written word.

To your last. Neither do I. They tend to be idol worshiping fools who believe lies.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:50 am

I still do not agree. Yes some books present untruths but books on spirituality cannot be accused of lying. It is a personal judgement.

Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:12 pm

Ted;1484816 wrote: I still do not agree. Yes some books present untruths but books on spirituality cannot be accused of lying. It is a personal judgement.

True.

Said of Gnostic Christian versus Christian bible reading practices.

“Both read the Bible day and night; but you read black where I read white.”

William Blake.

I would take this further and advise you to read any scriptures from as many POV as is within you. Question everything including yourself.

The bible, if read as a book of wisdom, does have much wisdom though.

You just have to read it the way Gnostics do and revers a lot of the Christian morals.

Christians call evil good while Gnostic Christians call evil, evil.

I E. Gnostic Christians think that bible God, the demiurge to us, is quite immoral for thinking that torturing King David's baby for 6 days before finally killing it is good justice. Gnostic Christians think that evil while Christians think that a good form of justice.

Which group do you think is right?

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:29 pm

Do they?? I take the advice of scholars and try to see the issues through Jewish eyes based on what I know about Jewish history. Of course there are sins in the scriptures but we try to read the scriptures with that in mind. Some of us do and many don't and that is too bad. Some want the Bible to be literally true because it gives them a sense of security even if it is a false sense of security. IMO.

Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:47 pm

Ted;1484850 wrote: Do they??

Almost to a man thus showing how their religious beliefs have corrupted their morals.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:56 pm

That accusation may fit some Christians but not all of them. Like politics there are a great many ideas and interpretations. One size does not fit all. Are you not doing what Richard Dawkins did. In his book "The God Delusion". He has tried to make in his book that all Christians are the same. Not very good research there.

Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:01 pm

Ted;1485053 wrote: That accusation may fit some Christians but not all of them. Like politics there are a great many ideas and interpretations. One size does not fit all. Are you not doing what Richard Dawkins did. In his book "The God Delusion". He has tried to make in his book that all Christians are the same. Not very good research there.

It is not all Christian but the vast majority.

I am beginning to use the term, all who fly the cross, because all who do see Jesus as a messiah, and FMPOV, all who think that substitutionary atonement is good have had their morals corrupted by their religion as that is an evil moral tenet.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:11 pm

Morals corrupted or misinformed by decent but misinformed well meaning teachers??

Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:42 pm

Ted;1485058 wrote: Morals corrupted or misinformed by decent but misinformed well meaning teachers??

Believe that if you will. I see all priests and imams as liars.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:45 pm

Believe as you will. I have met some fine priests in my day and they truly believe what they say. I consider some among my best friends.

Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:51 am

Ted;1485074 wrote: Believe as you will. I have met some fine priests in my day and they truly believe what they say. I consider some among my best friends.

This does not surprise me. Priests and imams can be just as gullible as other sheeple.

Their delusions might even be deeper than the average sheeple.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:07 pm

Of course that is your opinion. Are you claiming to have the only or the sole true handle on the truth??

Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:50 am

Ted;1485125 wrote: Of course that is your opinion. Are you claiming to have the only or the sole true handle on the truth??

You know better.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:12 pm

What I know is that I trust God. I do not believe that I have the sole handle on the Christian faith or the truth. After some 11 years at university I learned how little I really know. When folks imply they have the sole handle on the truth all I can do is laugh and shake my head.

Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:59 am

Ted;1485255 wrote: What I know is that I trust God. I do not believe that I have the sole handle on the Christian faith or the truth. After some 11 years at university I learned how little I really know. When folks imply they have the sole handle on the truth all I can do is laugh and shake my head.

I trust the God I believe in as well. I, my God, have done well in guiding myself to date.

Who is your God and what has he done to have you trust him?

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:35 pm

I was assuming that we both trusted in the same God. What has he done? He manifest himself/herself/itself in the human we call Jesus of Nazareth. We are not just to be hearers of the message but doers as well. Perhaps you don't accept the same God???

Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:46 pm

Ted;1485358 wrote: I was assuming that we both trusted in the same God. What has he done? He manifest himself/herself/itself in the human we call Jesus of Nazareth. We are not just to be hearers of the message but doers as well. Perhaps you don't accept the same God???

Yes and no. I do not see it quite as you do.

I hope I did not show you this yet.

Gnostic Christians are perpetual seekers after God. God here I define as the best laws and rules to live life with.

We believe that those laws and rules, as Jesus said, are found in our minds/hearts. I use the following to try to illustrate this notion. A bit of history and then a mindset and method to do what I promote.

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized to activate your higher mind.

This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus, in the esoteric sense.

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. Becoming a God is to become more fully human and a brethren to Jesus.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:54 pm

I believe that we need "God language" to speak of the divine. The problem is our human languages are not up to the task. Human language cannot corral God. Paul wrote about seeing through a glass darkly. So we do.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:23 pm

It always amazes me that folks fight for total freedom but when something happens they then want God to intervene. You cannot have it both ways. We simply do not understand and do not have the language or conceptualizing ability to do so. I do not believe that the Divine intervenes in the day to day lives of people...It would seem God is damned if he doesn't intervene and damned if he/she/it does. Now what do people want?? If people don't get it their way they bitch and complain. But we are in charge of our own destiny. When threats come we are in charge. We can oppose them or we can accept them. That is our choice.

Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:48 am

Ted;1485460 wrote: I believe that we need "God language" to speak of the divine. The problem is our human languages are not up to the task. Human language cannot corral God. Paul wrote about seeing through a glass darkly. So we do.

Regards

DL

Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:52 am

Ted;1485464 wrote: It always amazes me that folks fight for total freedom but when something happens they then want God to intervene. You cannot have it both ways. We simply do not understand and do not have the language or conceptualizing ability to do so. I do not believe that the Divine intervenes in the day to day lives of people...It would seem God is damned if he doesn't intervene and damned if he/she/it does. Now what do people want?? If people don't get it their way they bitch and complain. But we are in charge of our own destiny. When threats come we are in charge. We can oppose them or we can accept them. That is our choice.

Rather Gnostic Christian that.

Call your God I am, and mean you, and be done with the lies you have been told.

You cannot seek God when holding to someone else's idea of God.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:27 pm

These are only lies in the opinion of some folks and not others. Nonetheless atrocities were committed The ancients wrote as they believed. And should only be judged on that basis. All kinds of atrocities were committed and with the ancient thinking they thought God allowed it. Not lies but honest thought for the time.

Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:34 am

Ted;1485531 wrote: These are only lies in the opinion of some folks and not others. Nonetheless atrocities were committed The ancients wrote as they believed. And should only be judged on that basis. All kinds of atrocities were committed and with the ancient thinking they thought God allowed it. Not lies but honest thought for the time.

Honest thoughts of men. Not of a God.

God is just a tool men use to do their will. Have you seen this movie?

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:48 pm

Perhaps you need some lessons at a theological school. You just might learn something. Wishful thinking does not make anything happen.

Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:08 pm

Ted;1485682 wrote: Perhaps you need some lessons at a theological school. You just might learn something. Wishful thinking does not make anything happen.

No one indicated that it did.

The only things I see theological schools as teaching are how to lie to your parishioners for their money.

Regards

DL

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:26 am

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1486151 wrote: No one indicated that it did.

The only things I see theological schools as teaching are how to lie to your parishioners for their money.

Regards

DL

Now you see why they call Politicians Ministers.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:44 pm

LOL priceless.

Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:10 pm

FourPart;1486194 wrote: Now you see why they call Politicians Ministers.

Yes but politicians are restricted by facts and statistics.

Priests and imams do not have those restrictions and are at a higher level of liar than politicians.

Regards

DL

Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:47 pm

FourPart;1486194 wrote: Now you see why they call Politicians Ministers.

Brits have a funny arrangements. Your politicians are also head of the Church.

In politics, they have to give all equality yet in the workings of the church, they deny women equality.

Weird.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:03 pm

Fortunately the politicians have little if anything in the running of the church. The Bishops and clergy and laity run the church.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:50 pm

A total failure on Gnostic's understanding of the Bible. God does of is evil" A point in jest me thinks.

Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:48 am

Ted;1486249 wrote: Fortunately the politicians have little if anything in the running of the church. The Bishops and clergy and laity run the church.

Then the politicians are shirking their duty and are allowing the church to deny women equality and ignoring the law of the land.

Nice corporate citizens and compliant politicians eh?

Regards

DL

Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:50 am

Ted;1486258 wrote: A total failure on Gnostic's understanding of the Bible. God does of is evil" A point in jest me thinks.

Sorry. I don't know what you are saying.

Regards

DL

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:48 pm

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1486221 wrote: Brits have a funny arrangements. Your politicians are also head of the Church.

Actually, the Queen (or Crown) is Head of the Church - "Defender of (the) Faith" - not the Politicians.

Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:15 pm

FourPart;1486297 wrote: Actually, the Queen (or Crown) is Head of the Church - "Defender of (the) Faith" - not the Politicians.

Then your politicians should get the Queen to follow the law of the land and demand equality for all.

Regards

DL

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:17 pm

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1486301 wrote: Then your politicians should get the Queen to follow the law of the land and demand equality for all.

Regards

DL

She does. She's also a tax payer. She also pays rent.

Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:45 pm

FourPart;1486303 wrote: She does. .

Then why does her church deny her equality?

She cannot be a bishop in her own church.

Or did I hear the other day that they finally allowed a female bishop?

Regards

DL

Post by **LarsMac** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:09 pm

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1486306 wrote: Then why does her church deny her equality?

She cannot be a bishop in her own church.

Or did I hear the other day that they finally allowed a female bishop?

Regards

DL

They ordained Libby Lane in January, at York Minster.

Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:19 am

LarsMac;1486311 wrote: They ordained Libby Lane in January, at York Minster.

No thanks to the Queen or your government. Shame on both their houses for not having legislated this injustice many years ago.

If the West does not walk it's equality talk, how can we expect the even more regressive regimes to change their ways?

That was a rhetorical question.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:02 pm

Gnostic I'm beginning to think you have a chip on your shoulder or a plank in your eye. The past is the past and that is the way it was. We are progressing slowly but perhaps not to your liking.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:13 am

When part of the world desperately clings to its primitive Religious culture, whilst at the same time trying to embrace all the perks of modern culture which are brought about by change, there is bound to be trouble. The most obvious example of which is currently that of ISIS. Insisting that they live by Sharia law, unchanged from the days of the Qu'ran, whilst at the same time depending on the technology of the Infidel West - The Great Satan.

Bear in mind that Allah is supposedly the same God as that of the Christians & the Jews, yet each of them slaughter the others in the name of their particular God, because it is His will.

The whole concept of Religion is a Hypocritical farce.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:55 pm

The queen's position is mostly ceremonial and as a figure head. No the queen does not run the church. Ultimately it is the people themselves. To be a clergy has to be accepted by the parishioners. Bishops have to be elected by both houses, the other bishops and also by the laity.