minimum wage

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Sat May 31, 2014 11:06 am

There was a time in life when I saw a purpose for a minimum wage and that was a long time ago. Beyond the fact it was the law and not an issue to me, did nâ€™t care. I cleaned the kitchen, washed the dishes, bused the tables of a convalescent hospital. A buddy worked at McDonalds. Had other friends,High School students, earning a little cash.

Who knew such menial jobs would be a career path?

Meanwhile,

Obama to sign executive order raising minimum wage for federal contractors

Take from the taxpayer, buy a vote.

What really got me was this cartoon,

â€œLetâ€™s declare that in the wealthiest nation on Earth, no one who works full-time should have to live in poverty and raise the federal minimum wage to $9 an hour,â€ the president said to applause in his 2013 address.

The new executive order affects only future contracts, not existing ones, and would only apply to contract renewals if other terms of the agreement changed. As a result, the order would benefit far fewer workers than the number foreseen by advocates of federal contract employees.

executive order

It was a few years ago driving over the road stopped at a Dillons grocery store.

I was in a hurry, gotta get going. Loaded my cart went to pay.

OK, it was like 3 am in a store open 24 hours. I went the the checkout only to find I am suppose to check my stuff myself!!!?

OK so I proceed and have problems. Look around for help and saw a group whom I assumed to be employees standing around shooting the breeze.

I call over, NOTHING

Now I am P.O.d

Hollered, can I get some HELP HERE ?!!?

So some snarky gal saunters over to show me how to do it.

Whatever.

Anyway, these self serve things seems all the rage.

The last few times I was at HOME DEPOT they are all self serve. It is my habit to screw up the system, they need to send somebody to clear it up.

So,

What is the future of burger flippers?

It would be negligence for me not mention that the local Walmart has self service lanes.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat May 31, 2014 11:11 am

There are many arguments In the UK also to the Minimum wage.... all depends who you vote for.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Sat May 31, 2014 11:29 am

Oscar Farage;1456038 wrote: There are many arguments In the UK also to the Minimum wage.... all depends who you vote for.

To me, there is only one argument.

Am I at liberty to negotiate a labor contract without the interference of the gubernment?

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Sat May 31, 2014 12:40 pm

Tude

exactly - who knew a fast food server would be a career.

by demanding the minimum wage hike their education is limited - that is their goal - their career.

that's very sad

Patsy

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat May 31, 2014 3:08 pm

When you hear politicians hollering about the minimum wage, look around, because they're trying to distract you from something important.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sat May 31, 2014 3:09 pm

There are not enough good paying jobs in the U.S. Besides, it's not a wage problem, it's a Cost Problem, it's a Price of Goods Problem. If wages go up, so will the cost of all we buy, including where we live. Wages aren't keeping up with the Cost. If the Cost of Goods were lower, we would be fine.

Also, I don't think any job is undignified or sad. People, not so long ago, could be high-school drop-outs & still earn a living wage. Now many Baristas are College Grads.

We have only a few factory jobs, it's been shipped overseas. Even customer service call centers are shipped overseas.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sat May 31, 2014 3:11 pm

Accountable;1456057 wrote: When you hear politicians hollering about the minimum wage, look around, because they're trying to distract you from something important.

Many things politicians holler about are diversions that aim to keep a status quo on some issue.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sat May 31, 2014 3:17 pm

TD: "There was a time in life when I saw a purpose for a minimum wage and that was a long time ago. Beyond the fact it was the law and not an issue to me, did nâ€™t care. I cleaned the kitchen, washed the dishes, bused the tables of a convalescent hospital. A buddy worked at McDonalds. Had other friends,High School students, earning a little cash.

Who knew such menial jobs would be a career path?"

Driving a truck isn't menial to someone? I say there are no menial jobs. All jobs that fulfill a need in society are worthwhile & deserving of respect. The maintenance people where I live, there are 2 whose basic job is to clean, not fix. Is that menial? No, it is useful for all the people here. They do the schitt, literally. That is worthy & deserves a living wage, not to barely scrape by.

eta--So, when You Saw a Purpose, it was OK, but now that you don't, it's not. The only complaint I have about raising the minimum wage is that it will be the excuse to raise prices & profits and the rest of us are back to square one.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sat May 31, 2014 3:33 pm

TD: "It would be negligence for me not mention that the local Walmart has self service lanes."

That's because these stores, banks, etc. do not want to pay a human being a salary, any salary at all. i.e. Being a bank teller used to be a damn good job. ATM machines have replaced them, which I can understand for many transactions, but some banks are actually asking a service charge to use the teller.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Sat May 31, 2014 3:35 pm

The minimum base wage (CPI index) stopped during Reagans' reign and never caught up

Wandrin · Post by **Wandrin** » Sat May 31, 2014 4:07 pm

AnneBoleyn;1456058 wrote: There are not enough good paying jobs in the U.S. Besides, it's not a wage problem, it's a Cost Problem, it's a Price of Goods Problem. If wages go up, so will the cost of all we buy, including where we live. Wages aren't keeping up with the Cost. If the Cost of Goods were lower, we would be fine.

Also, I don't think any job is undignified or sad. People, not so long ago, could be high-school drop-outs & still earn a living wage. Now many Baristas are College Grads.

We have only a few factory jobs, it's been shipped overseas. Even customer service call centers are shipped overseas.

Shipping jobs overseas is certainly a problem. So is importing workers from overseas, rather than training people for technical jobs. It is cheaper to simply say that there aren't enough skilled workers and as for H1b visas to fill those jobs (paying them less than they would for comparable US workers). It was once common for employers to help promising workers with college tuition and provide training for them to move up. Doing so allowed them to grow their skilled workforce and would also open up entry level jobs when someone moved up.

Today, the big corporations feel no sense of responsibility toward their workers or the community/country. It is all about increased profit without regard to the damage it is doing - even the damage to their potential customer base.

A little over a year ago, one of the trendy clothing stores in San Francisco said that they needed a lot of H1b visas to handle their Christmas rush. They claimed that they couldn't find anyone in the US looking for a job. Really? It turned out that they had decided not to put a sign in their window, run a classified ad, or do anything else to let anyone know that they were hiring. They just wanted cheap labor from overseas.

The US gave away most of its manufacturing jobs, is in the process of giving away many of its engineering jobs, and is trying to suppress wages for those still working. This is not a sustainable system. Workers with jobs that pay a decent wage can afford to buy the products their employer sells. It is really as simple as that. If you take away those jobs or don't pay a living wage, you lose business.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Sat May 31, 2014 6:02 pm

Anne

I think if a graduate's goal is to flip burgers as a career - that's sad.

I'm saying - the graduate is limiting themselves.

Tude stated he & friends had these positions & were a starter job - a High School get some money rolling - as a kid in High School.

I was not referring to a employee whom was released from their career.

Different avenue of thought

Patsy

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Sat May 31, 2014 6:30 pm

Wandrin;1456067 wrote: Shipping jobs overseas is certainly a problem. So is importing workers from overseas, rather than training people for technical jobs. It is cheaper to simply say that there aren't enough skilled workers and as for H1b visas to fill those jobs (paying them less than they would for comparable US workers). It was once common for employers to help promising workers with college tuition and provide training for them to move up. Doing so allowed them to grow their skilled workforce and would also open up entry level jobs when someone moved up.

Today, the big corporations feel no sense of responsibility toward their workers or the community/country. It is all about increased profit without regard to the damage it is doing - even the damage to their potential customer base.

A little over a year ago, one of the trendy clothing stores in San Francisco said that they needed a lot of H1b visas to handle their Christmas rush. They claimed that they couldn't find anyone in the US looking for a job. Really? It turned out that they had decided not to put a sign in their window, run a classified ad, or do anything else to let anyone know that they were hiring. They just wanted cheap labor from overseas.

The US gave away most of its manufacturing jobs, is in the process of giving away many of its engineering jobs, and is trying to suppress wages for those still working. This is not a sustainable system. Workers with jobs that pay a decent wage can afford to buy the products their employer sells. It is really as simple as that. If you take away those jobs or don't pay a living wage, you lose business.

That is exactly what is happening here with 457 visa's.......I heard a woman on the radio complaining the government wouldn't extend her visa and how unfair it was. I can tell you now she didn't get a lot of sympathy that day.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:19 am

Patsy Warnick;1456075 wrote: Anne

I think if a graduate's goal is to flip burgers as a career - that's sad.

I'm saying - the graduate is limiting themselves.

Tude stated he & friends had these positions & were a starter job - a High School get some money rolling - as a kid in High School.

If the graduate has very special needs, it is not sad. For those who wind up doing that for reasons unknown to us, it's not sad. No graduate of normal ability has that as a career goal. If you actually know of anyone spending 4 years of high school with that "dream", well gosh, post a link. But you can't because life doesn't happen that way on purpose, but by unforeseen necessity.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:45 am

Anne

You may also post your link of knowledge where "No grad with normal abilities choose flipping burgers as a career".

You said it yourself - few jobs - automated- high tech world

not much to choose from.

Grads work flipping burgers to help with school costs etc. Do they finish further education or are they now a career flipper? it's that unforeseen necessity.

Patsy

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:32 am

Our news showed Fast Food Employees rallying for minimum wage for $ 15.00 @ hour.

$ 15.00 dollars @ hour is a lot of money - to me anyway.

When I first heard this - I thought the workers wouldn't further their education.

With fewer job - where do they go without a education?

Many will be very happy with the $15.00 @ hour & will make fast foods the career.

Patsy

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:05 pm

Patsy Warnick;1456143 wrote: Our news showed Fast Food Employees rallying for minimum wage for $ 15.00 @ hour.

$ 15.00 dollars @ hour is a lot of money - to me anyway.

When I first heard this - I thought the workers wouldn't further their education.

With fewer job - where do they go without a education?

Many will be very happy with the $15.00 @ hour & will make fast foods the career.

Patsy

I honestly don't see someone else's career choice, even if it is fast foods, as anything to be ashamed of. Maybe some will become managers. I don't see honest work as being sad or shameful if the worker has a degree of contentment & can live from what they earn.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:07 pm

PS--Perhaps a worker's Personal Life, if they are not too tired or poor to have one, is enriching & fulfilling for them. A person gets their esteem & enjoyment from their total life, & that includes everything they do.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:32 pm

Patsy going by the American CPI index the min wage should $22 per hour. Just imagine what the rest of you should be getting. Inflation still goes up but your wages have remained under the CPI.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:45 pm

Anne

I never stated a honest work was some thing to be ashamed of.

Don't speak for me.

There's nothing to be ashamed for being a Manager at a fast food chain, or delivering newspapers. I've done my share.

I see $ 15.00 @ hour satisfying & comfortable for many and therefore will not pursue further education - goals. limiting themselves

Minimum wage was @ $ 2.65 @ hour - so that certainly motivated one to further educated yourself - a path for a career.

What was Minimum Wage when you started working?

It wasn't enough to sustain one's life and all the enrichments.

Patsy

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:12 pm

Many people will never have the ability to get anything other than low grade jobs. Sewage and refuse and burgers and cash tills need to be serviced, are these people destined to have no families, being unable to afford them ?

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:17 pm

The equivalent of the workhouses of the Victorian era.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:21 pm

Patsy Warnick;1456156 wrote: Anne

I never stated a honest work was some thing to be ashamed of.

Don't speak for me.

There's nothing to be ashamed for being a Manager at a fast food chain, or delivering newspapers. I've done my share.

I see $ 15.00 @ hour satisfying & comfortable for many and therefore will not pursue further education - goals. limiting themselves

Minimum wage was @ $ 2.65 @ hour - so that certainly motivated one to further educated yourself - a path for a career.

What was Minimum Wage when you started working?

It wasn't enough to sustain one's life and all the enrichments.

Patsy

I honestly don't remember what the minimum wage was when I started working. I'd have to look it up. But I do remember, in the early '70's, being paid slightly under 10K a year. On that wage, I had my own apartment in Manhattan, took taxi's whenever I wanted, went on European vacations lasting over a month (I had 5 weeks vacation), went to Broadway shows, ate at good restaurants, joined what is now an exclusive Health Club, shopped & bought what I wanted. All for under 10K a year. I was not yet a college grad. I became one, & furthered my education to Graduate work because I wanted to. I didn't need to, I just enjoyed college.

People should adjust their lives how they need to based on their needs. If forced into education they may not be qualified for, we wind up with a bunch of professional Incompetents. We're limited by ourselves, & if you realize an average I.Q. is 90-100: Well, we're not all cut out for brain surgery. I'd rather be treated or dealt with by an 'A' student rather than a 'C' student, but both can get the same degrees.

I'm not speaking for you, but there should be no shame in being a fast food worker, rather than mgr., either. My whole premise is that it is prices out of control, not wages. When I was a kid a grocery clerk could afford their own home on one salary & raise a family. &, that clerk may well have been a high school drop-out. Any person who works should be able to provide for themselves. In the '60's, in Manhattan one part-time job in the family could cover all expenses. Maybe meager ones, but hey, it's not up to me.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:23 pm

Bruv;1456160 wrote: Many people will never have the ability to get anything other than low grade jobs. Sewage and refuse and burgers and cash tills need to be serviced, are these people destined to have no families, being unable to afford them ?

Exactly.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:26 pm

fuzzywuzzy;1456161 wrote: The equivalent of the workhouses of the Victorian era.

â€œIf they would rather die, . . . they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.â€

â€• Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:28 pm

Patsy: re: minimum wage: "It wasn't enough to sustain one's life and all the enrichments."

I must be older than you. It was enough to sustain life, but I agree, not ALL the enrichments.

Also, as a child why was one person, usually the man, able to support everyone but now a family with two working parents has a harder struggle?

Because the dollar has shrunk, buying power has shrunk.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:29 pm

Have the requirements of the average guy got more expensive, or there more necessities these days.

Or has the differential between Bank manager and burger flipper wage grown wider ?

If it has.....why ?

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:30 pm

Yes, and there was on the job training for many- many positions.

The day's the employer invested in their employees - from training to vacations to health care coverage.

soon that hamburger you order will be from a automated machine.

Patsy

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:34 pm

Bruv;1456167 wrote: Have the requirements of the average guy got more expensive, or there more necessities these days.

Or has the differential between Bank manager and burger flipper wage grown wider ?

If it has.....why ?

Greed & tax cuts & incentives for those already wealthy. Socialism for the rich is my expression, but you may borrow it.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:35 pm

Patsy Warnick;1456168 wrote: Yes, and there was on the job training for many- many positions.

The day's the employer invested in their employees - from training to vacations to health care coverage.

soon that hamburger you order will be from a automated machine.

Patsy

I don't eat fast food; maybe twice a year or so. IMO, now the employer invests mostly in themselves. Dog eat dog.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:17 pm

I have always been opposed to the whole Minimum Wage Concept simply because of of the concept of Offer & Acceptance. I am free to offer and you are free to accept. I offer my car for sale at $5,000 and you are free to accept or counter. I offer you a job for $10 per hour and you can accept or not, or even counter. Why do top atheletes and entertainers make the Big Bucks? Because some one is willing to pay them the Big Bucks and they accept the Big Bucks. A person is worth no more than what some one is willing to pay them. The fact that you can't raise a family on a certain level of income is of no consequense.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:05 pm

Lon;1456176 wrote: I have always been opposed to the whole Minimum Wage Concept simply because of of the concept of Offer & Acceptance. I am free to offer and you are free to accept. I offer my car for sale at $5,000 and you are free to accept or counter. I offer you a job for $10 per hour and you can accept or not, or even counter. Why do top atheletes and entertainers make the Big Bucks? Because some one is willing to pay them the Big Bucks and they accept the Big Bucks. A person is worth no more than what some one is willing to pay them. The fact that you can't raise a family on a certain level of income is of no consequense.

You talk like most of these folks have a choice. As if there are tons of high paying jobs out there for the taking, and these people make the choice to go after that part-time job that pays 10 bucks an hour, instead of dressing themselves up and going after that power job at Wall Street.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:09 pm

Lon;1456176 wrote: I have always been opposed to the whole Minimum Wage Concept simply because of of the concept of Offer & Acceptance. I am free to offer and you are free to accept. I offer my car for sale at $5,000 and you are free to accept or counter. I offer you a job for $10 per hour and you can accept or not, or even counter. Why do top atheletes and entertainers make the Big Bucks? Because some one is willing to pay them the Big Bucks and they accept the Big Bucks. A person is worth no more than what some one is willing to pay them. The fact that you can't raise a family on a certain level of income is of no consequense.

Who is talking about $ 5,000 cars?

If you offer a hungry man $ 2 an hour what are his choices ?

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:21 pm

LarsMac;1456181 wrote: You talk like most of these folks have a choice. As if there are tons of high paying jobs out there for the taking, and these people make the choice to go after that part-time job that pays 10 bucks an hour, instead of dressing themselves up and going after that power job at Wall Street.

Of course they have a choise Lars. I am not talking about High Paying jobs, just offer and acceptance. Oh, there are FULL TIME JOBS that pay 10 bucks an hour as well as part time.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:23 pm

Me personally? I would offer the Hungry Man a meal instead of $2 per hour.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:47 pm

AnneBoleyn;1456169 wrote: Greed & tax cuts & incentives for those already wealthy. Socialism for the rich is my expression, but you may borrow it.

ooohhhh I like that . (the quote that is not the concept)

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:01 am

AnneBoleyn;1456060 wrote:

Driving a truck isn't menial to someone? I say there are no menial jobs.

A better word would have been unskilled.

AnneBoleyn;1456060 wrote: All jobs that fulfill a need in society are worthwhile & deserving of respect.

^ ^ ^^ ^

THAT

AnneBoleyn;1456060 wrote: The maintenance people where I live, there are 2 whose basic job is to clean, not fix. Is that menial? No, it is useful for all the people here. They do the schitt, literally. That is worthy & deserves a living wage, not to barely scrape by.

eta--So, when You Saw a Purpose,

Wish I could explain that purpose, that was a really long time ago.

AnneBoleyn;1456060 wrote: it was OK, but now that you don't, it's not. The only complaint I have about raising the minimum wage is that it will be the excuse to raise prices & profits and the rest of us are back to square one.

I had nothing personal to gain when I changed my mind on that subject.

A question I have is, just how many jobs minimum wage costs?

We know it does, The Effects of a Minimum-Wage Increase on Employment and Family Income

Increasing the minimum wage would have two principal effects on low-wage workers. Most of them would receive higher pay that would increase their familyâ€™s income, and some of those families would see their income rise above the federal poverty threshold. But some jobs for low-wage workers would probably be eliminated, the income of most workers who became jobless would fall substantially, and the share of low-wage workers who were employed would probably fall slightly.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:19 pm

Government double speak.....?

Increasing the minimum wage would have two principal effects on low-wage workers. Most of them would receive higher pay that would increase their familyâ€™s income, and some of those families would see their income rise above the federal poverty threshold.

(So a positive affect then)

But some jobs for low-wage workers would probably be eliminated, the income of most workers who became jobless would fall substantially, and the share of low-wage workers who were employed would probably fall slightly.

(Stating the bleeding obvious.....or what)

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:32 pm

Bruv;1456226 wrote: Government double speak.....?

Increasing the minimum wage would have two principal effects on low-wage workers. Most of them would receive higher pay that would increase their familyâ€™s income, and some of those families would see their income rise above the federal poverty threshold.

(So a positive affect then)

But some jobs for low-wage workers would probably be eliminated, the income of most workers who became jobless would fall substantially, and the share of low-wage workers who were employed would probably fall slightly.

(Stating the bleeding obvious.....or what)

Gee Wizz

QAuote something, with a link so the some of us could have a clure.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:39 pm

tude dog;1456237 wrote: Gee Wizz

QAuote something, with a link so the some of us could have a clure.

Gee double wizz........ it was a quote direct from YOUR post Tude.......with your link....................Congressional Budget Office You quoted it.......first paragraph.......remember?

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:46 pm

TD: "A better word would have been unskilled."

Unskilled, menial, a tisket a tasket. They are synonymous.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:04 pm

Bruv;1456226 wrote: Government double speak.....?

Increasing the minimum wage would have two principal effects on low-wage workers. Most of them would receive higher pay that would increase their familyâ€™s income, and some of those families would see their income rise above the federal poverty threshold.

(So a positive affect then)

But some jobs for low-wage workers would probably be eliminated, the income of most workers who became jobless would fall substantially, and the share of low-wage workers who were employed would probably fall slightly.

(Stating the bleeding obvious.....or what)

Babble on, ,

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:53 pm

tude dog;1456254 wrote: Babble on, ,

Ditto

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:02 pm

I just literally laughed out loud.....thanks for that Tude.

I copy the first paragraph of Tudes link that supposedly backs up his point of view, I then highlight a few words, throw it back in the mix, he fails to recognise his own link .......and when reminded it was his own quoted paragraph, interpreted differently.......he dismisses it out of hand.

None so blind as those that cannot see another mans point of view.....

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:17 pm

AnneBoleyn;1456243 wrote: TD: "A better word would have been unskilled."

AnneBoleyn;1456243 wrote: Unskilled, menial, a tisket a tasket. They are synonymous.

Similiar but not the same.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:44 pm

Bruv;1456239 wrote: Gee double wizz........ it was a quote direct from YOUR post Tude.......with your link....................Congressional Budget Office You quoted it.......first paragraph.......remember?

No it was not a direct quote, it was changed, and I answered accordingly.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:51 pm

Seattle Washington Council has passed $ 15.00 @ hour minimum wage.

Others to follow.

Patsy

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:23 am

America did well in the 50's,60's and seventies because it had high wage economy and people had disposabl inome to spend andgenerate more profits for manufacturing and agricuture. All those highly paid jobs have been shipped abroad to low wage economies the theory being low wage cost fuels profit the only problem is when you destroy the livelihoods of your own population they no longer have the money to buy the stuff you are importing short term profit turns in to long term economic disaster, it's poor economics, not capitalism, and is what happens when you let accountants who see only the bottom line and not the whole picture run the place. Add in an unregulated financial sector and you have catastophe. If it was as simple as low wages the third world would be richer than us. You can't have an economy built on service industries, flipping burgers or working in shops and financial services. The rich didn't get rich without employing people they did not educate or transporting their goods around in an infrastructure they did nothing to create they owe siociety an obligation an if they don't see it why the hell should the rest of us put up with them or allow them to destroy the environment in which we live.

True you are free to negotiate your own wages and certainly don't need a minimum wage or any kind of legislation to protect you from exploitation but when an employer offers you food and maybe a roof over your head to work or him or asks you to work with, for example, hazardous chemicals without any kind of protective gear because he knows you have no choice in the matter don't complain just remember you didn't need anyone's help or protection.

If you buy in to the the theory that you should not tax the rich because then they can spend more, create jobs and generate wealth for everyone else good luck to you but you're an idiot. Next people will be arguing that democracy doesn't work and not everyone should be allowed to vote only those who pay a certain amount of tax should be eligible then this nonsense about minimum wages and social security would not arise. After all america wasn't founded as a democracy was it. Do americans have the phrase educated idiot? If you don't know what it means have a look at our politicians like tony blair & co.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:29 am

tude dog;1456266 wrote: No it was not a direct quote, it was changed, and I answered accordingly.

It was an exact quote, with some words bolded and my comment added in brackets.

You dismissed it out of hand, if I didn't know better I would say that was bigotry........of course you will dismiss that thought too.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:24 am

To large or small businesses, more paid out in wages equals either less in profit or higher prices. Less profit in larger corporations will not be acceptable, so prices will be jacked to counter. Even us small companies will have to raise prices if we're forced to increase payroll. So then the "higher" paid minimum wage worker may end up with the same buying power they had before the wage hike. I know if I have to raise all of my workers (including entry level positions) pay I will HAVE to raise my prices just to stay in business and keep my head above water.

If they raise minimum wages to lets say $10.00 an hour, I will have to also raise my experienced workers who are making $20.00 an hour to $23-$25 an hour so that they are the level above entry level workers that they should be. How do I compensate for that? I raise prices. I have to if I want to make a profit or I go out of business.