AnneBoleyn;1455294 wrote: Be a jew. Don't be a jew.
Hayim Donin. The best there is.
AnneBoleyn;1455295 wrote: Expect to fart a lot.
I'll keep that in mind. Thank you.
Religious Slaughter
-
High Threshold
- Posts: 2856
- Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:20 am
Religious Slaughter
Bruv;1455278 wrote:
My question remains the same, in humane terms, what is the difference ?
All animals will smell and glimpse and hear the discomfort of those preceding them......hence......."they suffer through panic and fear"
So the statement commencing "Some British Farmers are saying..........." is pure balderdash.
So the question was about "Religious Slaughter"
NOT the killing of Trooper Rigby.
NOT animal welfare in relation to National Hunt racing.
But of course if there is no suitable answer, muddy the water, change the direction of the argument.
I shall atempt to answer my own question.......Right Bruv no bleeding difference bro, both sets of animals suffer panic and fear, any objections are purely on religious grounds.
If the thrust of the argument was due to religious reasons that is fair enough, using animal welfare is bottling it.
My question remains the same, in humane terms, what is the difference ?
All animals will smell and glimpse and hear the discomfort of those preceding them......hence......."they suffer through panic and fear"
So the statement commencing "Some British Farmers are saying..........." is pure balderdash.
So the question was about "Religious Slaughter"
NOT the killing of Trooper Rigby.
NOT animal welfare in relation to National Hunt racing.
But of course if there is no suitable answer, muddy the water, change the direction of the argument.
I shall atempt to answer my own question.......Right Bruv no bleeding difference bro, both sets of animals suffer panic and fear, any objections are purely on religious grounds.
If the thrust of the argument was due to religious reasons that is fair enough, using animal welfare is bottling it.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
-
AnneBoleyn
- Posts: 6632
- Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:17 pm
Religious Slaughter
"Right Bruv no bleeding difference bro, both sets of animals suffer panic and fear, any objections are purely on religious grounds.
If the thrust of the argument was due to religious reasons that is fair enough, using animal welfare is bottling it."
Yeah. It's eat or be eaten. Primal. Basic.
If the thrust of the argument was due to religious reasons that is fair enough, using animal welfare is bottling it."
Yeah. It's eat or be eaten. Primal. Basic.
-
High Threshold
- Posts: 2856
- Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:20 am
Religious Slaughter
AnneBoleyn;1455300 wrote: Yeah. It's eat or be eaten. Primal. Basic.
Right. I was attacked by a chicken once that clearly wanted to devour me. It had been stalking me for the better part of an hour so I was prepared for it. When it finally pounced I managed to get hold of its neck and dispatched that treacherous beast without any prayer. I figured I didn’t have the time for it, you see.
Right. I was attacked by a chicken once that clearly wanted to devour me. It had been stalking me for the better part of an hour so I was prepared for it. When it finally pounced I managed to get hold of its neck and dispatched that treacherous beast without any prayer. I figured I didn’t have the time for it, you see.
Religious Slaughter
Quote Originally Posted by tude dog View Post
We can start with Binding of Isaac to know that G-d is into the animal sacrifice thing.
I don't know off hand if there is a direct quote from the Torah commanding animal sacrifice, but we are instructed
Deuteronomy 12:11
Very nice, but who wrote it? Certainly not G-d Himself?
Golly. Books have been written on the subject of the not only who, but when different parts of the Bible were written, with a fair amount of disagreement to boot. I spent a fair amount of time in the study of the Tanach[Old Testement), but certainly no scholar on the subject. Gotta ask somebody else.
Quote Originally Posted by tude dog View Post
All said, none of that applies to you.
And why's that?
OK
There is nothing in the Judaism which would expect non Jews to observe any ritual rules of our religion.
With that said, there is the Seven Laws of Noah
Take it for what it's worth.
We can start with Binding of Isaac to know that G-d is into the animal sacrifice thing.
I don't know off hand if there is a direct quote from the Torah commanding animal sacrifice, but we are instructed
Deuteronomy 12:11
Very nice, but who wrote it? Certainly not G-d Himself?
Golly. Books have been written on the subject of the not only who, but when different parts of the Bible were written, with a fair amount of disagreement to boot. I spent a fair amount of time in the study of the Tanach[Old Testement), but certainly no scholar on the subject. Gotta ask somebody else.
Quote Originally Posted by tude dog View Post
All said, none of that applies to you.
And why's that?
OK
There is nothing in the Judaism which would expect non Jews to observe any ritual rules of our religion.
With that said, there is the Seven Laws of Noah
Take it for what it's worth.
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
-
High Threshold
- Posts: 2856
- Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:20 am
Religious Slaughter
tude dog;1455303 wrote: There is nothing in the Judaism which would expect non Jews to observe any ritual rules of our religion.
According Judaism, non-Jews are not expected to follow all of the laws that were accepted by those who "chose" to do so ... the "chosen people". However, to be in G-d's grace non-Jews are expected to keep and observe the bare minimum, which are fairly-well spelled out.
tude dog;1455303 wrote: I spent a fair amount of time in the study of the Tanach[Old Testement)
Very commendable. I'm impressed.
tude dog;1455303 wrote: ..... but certainly no scholar on the subject. Gotta ask somebody else.
I don't follow you. Who is it I should ask why it is that YOU (Tude Dog) believe G-d required man to sacrifice animals?
One of the most interesting practices of Judaism is that Jews are encouraged to ask, to debate .... whereas Christians, for example, are expected to take the whole package "on faith" and ask nothing or else be considered not a true believer of Jesus, the Virgin Mary, the Trinity, jada, jada, jada ...
So I am still asking you why you believe that G-d required animal sacrifice? That, in fact, is the only question I have for you. Still, always, the same question. What have you taken from the Tanach, or any other source, that convinces you that G-d required animal sacrifice?
According Judaism, non-Jews are not expected to follow all of the laws that were accepted by those who "chose" to do so ... the "chosen people". However, to be in G-d's grace non-Jews are expected to keep and observe the bare minimum, which are fairly-well spelled out.
tude dog;1455303 wrote: I spent a fair amount of time in the study of the Tanach[Old Testement)
Very commendable. I'm impressed.
tude dog;1455303 wrote: ..... but certainly no scholar on the subject. Gotta ask somebody else.
I don't follow you. Who is it I should ask why it is that YOU (Tude Dog) believe G-d required man to sacrifice animals?
One of the most interesting practices of Judaism is that Jews are encouraged to ask, to debate .... whereas Christians, for example, are expected to take the whole package "on faith" and ask nothing or else be considered not a true believer of Jesus, the Virgin Mary, the Trinity, jada, jada, jada ...
So I am still asking you why you believe that G-d required animal sacrifice? That, in fact, is the only question I have for you. Still, always, the same question. What have you taken from the Tanach, or any other source, that convinces you that G-d required animal sacrifice?
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Religious Slaughter
Bruv;1455299 wrote: So the question was about "Religious Slaughter"
NOT the killing of Trooper Rigby.
NOT animal welfare in relation to National Hunt racing.
But of course if there is no suitable answer, muddy the water, change the direction of the argument.
I shall atempt to answer my own question.......Right Bruv no bleeding difference bro, both sets of animals suffer panic and fear, any objections are purely on religious grounds.
If the thrust of the argument was due to religious reasons that is fair enough, using animal welfare is bottling it. Let me try a different angle with you....
The Muslim population In the UK Is approx 4 million.
British Sikh's do not want their food blessed In the name of Allah. Hindu's don't, nor do Japanese, Chinese, other Asian, British Christians, British Jews, British Catholics. Atheist's etc etc etc
The food Industry Is the single largest Industry In the country.
Now, you tell me why every other religious faith, race, colour, creed minority and majority should be blatantly disrespected and Ignored because surely to dismiss the feelings of other faiths over one minority, makes you the bigot eh ?
Why should the wishes of just 4 million people take precedent over every other faith ?
Why should their ritual practice take precedent over the law of the land and affect the entire population en mass?
Where Is the Jewish faith slipping unlabelled Kosher Into our schools and food outlets?
NOT the killing of Trooper Rigby.
NOT animal welfare in relation to National Hunt racing.
But of course if there is no suitable answer, muddy the water, change the direction of the argument.
I shall atempt to answer my own question.......Right Bruv no bleeding difference bro, both sets of animals suffer panic and fear, any objections are purely on religious grounds.
If the thrust of the argument was due to religious reasons that is fair enough, using animal welfare is bottling it. Let me try a different angle with you....
The Muslim population In the UK Is approx 4 million.
British Sikh's do not want their food blessed In the name of Allah. Hindu's don't, nor do Japanese, Chinese, other Asian, British Christians, British Jews, British Catholics. Atheist's etc etc etc
The food Industry Is the single largest Industry In the country.
Now, you tell me why every other religious faith, race, colour, creed minority and majority should be blatantly disrespected and Ignored because surely to dismiss the feelings of other faiths over one minority, makes you the bigot eh ?
Why should the wishes of just 4 million people take precedent over every other faith ?
Why should their ritual practice take precedent over the law of the land and affect the entire population en mass?
Where Is the Jewish faith slipping unlabelled Kosher Into our schools and food outlets?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
-
AnneBoleyn
- Posts: 6632
- Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:17 pm
Religious Slaughter
High Threshold;1455302 wrote: Right. I was attacked by a chicken once that clearly wanted to devour me. It had been stalking me for the better part of an hour so I was prepared for it. When it finally pounced I managed to get hold of its neck and dispatched that treacherous beast without any prayer. I figured I didn’t have the time for it, you see.
Hmmmm. Wise Guy, hey? I lived on a farm where the chickens roamed free. If you were unlucky enough to pass by their nests they would fly up to your face level & come at you claws first. Surprise attacks. Not that I'm blaming them, & we got their eggs anyway. Delicious. But those girls could cause serious damage, going straight for your eyes.
Hmmmm. Wise Guy, hey? I lived on a farm where the chickens roamed free. If you were unlucky enough to pass by their nests they would fly up to your face level & come at you claws first. Surprise attacks. Not that I'm blaming them, & we got their eggs anyway. Delicious. But those girls could cause serious damage, going straight for your eyes.
Religious Slaughter
Oscar Sellotape;1455306 wrote: Let me try a different angle with you....
The Muslim population In the UK Is approx 4 million.
British Sikh's do not want their food blessed In the name of Allah. Hindu's don't, nor do Japanese, Chinese, other Asian, British Christians, British Jews, British Catholics. Atheist's etc etc etc
The food Industry Is the single largest Industry In the country.
Now, you tell me why every other religious faith, race, colour, creed minority and majority should be blatantly disrespected and Ignored because surely to dismiss the feelings of other faiths over one minority, makes you the bigot eh ?
Why should the wishes of just 4 million people take precedent over every other faith ?
Why should their ritual practice take precedent over the law of the land and affect the entire population en mass?
Where Is the Jewish faith slipping unlabelled Kosher Into our schools and food outlets?
So that has just cleared it all up.
You oppose Halal slaughter on religious grounds only......all the animal welfare claims were just a smokescreen.
Have you Polled all those you claim to speak for?
Why do you sling in the random information that Food is the largest industry in the UK?
The Muslim population In the UK Is approx 4 million.
British Sikh's do not want their food blessed In the name of Allah. Hindu's don't, nor do Japanese, Chinese, other Asian, British Christians, British Jews, British Catholics. Atheist's etc etc etc
The food Industry Is the single largest Industry In the country.
Now, you tell me why every other religious faith, race, colour, creed minority and majority should be blatantly disrespected and Ignored because surely to dismiss the feelings of other faiths over one minority, makes you the bigot eh ?
Why should the wishes of just 4 million people take precedent over every other faith ?
Why should their ritual practice take precedent over the law of the land and affect the entire population en mass?
Where Is the Jewish faith slipping unlabelled Kosher Into our schools and food outlets?
So that has just cleared it all up.
You oppose Halal slaughter on religious grounds only......all the animal welfare claims were just a smokescreen.
Have you Polled all those you claim to speak for?
Why do you sling in the random information that Food is the largest industry in the UK?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Religious Slaughter
Bruv;1455316 wrote: So that has just cleared it all up.
You oppose Halal slaughter on religious grounds only......all the animal welfare claims were just a smokescreen.
Have you Polled all those you claim to speak for?
Why do you sling in the random information that Food is the largest industry in the UK? For me, It's every aspect. It's the ritual of religion, It's the barbaric practice to animals and It's the fraud of not labelling It.
Why do I have to have just one objection?
That's why, In the limited wording I was allowed In my petition, I hit every bullet point.
Come on then... you tell me one Industry In this country that's bigger than the food Industry and I'll buy you a lollipop.
You oppose Halal slaughter on religious grounds only......all the animal welfare claims were just a smokescreen.
Have you Polled all those you claim to speak for?
Why do you sling in the random information that Food is the largest industry in the UK? For me, It's every aspect. It's the ritual of religion, It's the barbaric practice to animals and It's the fraud of not labelling It.
Why do I have to have just one objection?
That's why, In the limited wording I was allowed In my petition, I hit every bullet point.
Come on then... you tell me one Industry In this country that's bigger than the food Industry and I'll buy you a lollipop.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Religious Slaughter
Bruv;1455318 wrote: Nhs ? Nope that's the Concorde effect.
I'll ask again:
Now, you tell me why the beliefs and wishes of every other religious faith, race, colour, creed minority and majority should be blatantly disrespected and Ignored.
I'll ask again:
Now, you tell me why the beliefs and wishes of every other religious faith, race, colour, creed minority and majority should be blatantly disrespected and Ignored.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
-
AnneBoleyn
- Posts: 6632
- Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:17 pm
Religious Slaughter
Maybe they should ALL be blatantly disrespected and Ignored. I'll shut up now, I'm exhausted from playing Badigon 2 at the arcade & all the strife on this planet. "Can't we all just get along?" NO, someone is always trying to push people around. If it's not that guy, it's that other guy. Or gal. What a squabbling mess of humanity we are! No wonder there are so many comedians! & I'm as guilty as the next one.
Religious Slaughter
High Threshold;1455305 wrote: According Judaism, non-Jews are not expected to follow all of the laws that were accepted by those who "chose" to do so ...
Bingo
High Threshold;1455305 wrote: the "chosen people".
Yea, lucky us.
High Threshold;1455305 wrote: However, to be in G-d's grace non-Jews are expected to keep and observe the bare minimum, which are fairly-well spelled out.
One way to look at it.
High Threshold;1455305 wrote: Very commendable. I'm impressed.
Glad to be of service.
I don't follow you. Who is it I should ask why it is that YOU (Tude Dog) believe G-d required man to sacrifice animals?
I never said I believed G-d required animal sacrifice, just that it was the practice of the time.
High Threshold;1455305 wrote: So I am still asking you why you believe that G-d required animal sacrifice? That, in fact, is the only question I have for you. Still, always, the same question. What have you taken from the Tanach, or any other source, that convinces you that G-d required animal sacrifice?
sorry, i am at a loss
Bingo
High Threshold;1455305 wrote: the "chosen people".
Yea, lucky us.
High Threshold;1455305 wrote: However, to be in G-d's grace non-Jews are expected to keep and observe the bare minimum, which are fairly-well spelled out.
One way to look at it.
High Threshold;1455305 wrote: Very commendable. I'm impressed.
Glad to be of service.
I don't follow you. Who is it I should ask why it is that YOU (Tude Dog) believe G-d required man to sacrifice animals?
I never said I believed G-d required animal sacrifice, just that it was the practice of the time.
High Threshold;1455305 wrote: So I am still asking you why you believe that G-d required animal sacrifice? That, in fact, is the only question I have for you. Still, always, the same question. What have you taken from the Tanach, or any other source, that convinces you that G-d required animal sacrifice?
sorry, i am at a loss
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
Religious Slaughter
Oscar Sellotape;1455321 wrote: Nope that's the Concorde effect.
I'll ask again:
Now, you tell me why the beliefs and wishes of every other religious faith, race, colour, creed minority and majority should be blatantly disrespected and Ignored.
You are becoming more enigmatic.......if that is possible.
Google's not too sure what the concorde affect is......so why should I ?
So as I asked......did you poll "every other religious faith, race, colour, creed minority and majority"?
I'll ask again:
Now, you tell me why the beliefs and wishes of every other religious faith, race, colour, creed minority and majority should be blatantly disrespected and Ignored.
You are becoming more enigmatic.......if that is possible.
Google's not too sure what the concorde affect is......so why should I ?
So as I asked......did you poll "every other religious faith, race, colour, creed minority and majority"?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Religious Slaughter
Bruv;1455331 wrote: You are becoming more enigmatic.......if that is possible.
Google's not too sure what the concorde affect is......so why should I ?
So as I asked......did you poll "every other religious faith, race, colour, creed minority and majority"?Concorde effect.... right over the top of my head.
Yes, I joined Sikh's against Halal, Kosher vs Halal, Hindu and Sikh against Halal sites. I have been on Jewish sites, Christian sites, catholic sites, agnostic sites and even asked Dave from Rotherham. In other words, I have done as much research as I can Including British farmers.
Google's not too sure what the concorde affect is......so why should I ?
So as I asked......did you poll "every other religious faith, race, colour, creed minority and majority"?Concorde effect.... right over the top of my head.
Yes, I joined Sikh's against Halal, Kosher vs Halal, Hindu and Sikh against Halal sites. I have been on Jewish sites, Christian sites, catholic sites, agnostic sites and even asked Dave from Rotherham. In other words, I have done as much research as I can Including British farmers.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Religious Slaughter
Oscar Sellotape;1455339 wrote: Concorde effect.... right over the top of my head.
Yes, I joined Sikh's against Halal, Kosher vs Halal, Hindu and Sikh against Halal sites. I have been on Jewish sites, Christian sites, catholic sites, agnostic sites and even asked Dave from Rotherham. In other words, I have done as much research as I can Including British farmers.
So thats it then............."Suburban housewife visits a few websites, Government listens..........changes Halal slaughter Laws"
Yes, I joined Sikh's against Halal, Kosher vs Halal, Hindu and Sikh against Halal sites. I have been on Jewish sites, Christian sites, catholic sites, agnostic sites and even asked Dave from Rotherham. In other words, I have done as much research as I can Including British farmers.
So thats it then............."Suburban housewife visits a few websites, Government listens..........changes Halal slaughter Laws"
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
-
fuzzywuzzy
- Posts: 6596
- Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:35 pm
Religious Slaughter
Okay...... .now you have to admit, that was kinda funny
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Religious Slaughter
Bruv;1455348 wrote: So thats it then............."Suburban housewife visits a few websites, Government listens..........changes Halal slaughter Laws"
You haven't answered my question. Why do you think the beliefs of every other minority and majority be Ignored ? Why don't you answer? Or can't you?
So do you think any law got changed over night? Do you think Emily Pankhurst thought sod It, I give up ? Do you think the Anti-hunt got the law changed over night? Do you think Mandela thought F888 this for a game of soldiers? Do you think the protesters who just brought about the end of Japanese Whaling thought ' I give up' ?
Some campaigns take decades....they all start somewhere but thank **** I am not of your thinking In not even trying. By the time I'm dead, I'll be able to say I gave It my best shot.... Suburbia or not.
You haven't answered my question. Why do you think the beliefs of every other minority and majority be Ignored ? Why don't you answer? Or can't you?
So do you think any law got changed over night? Do you think Emily Pankhurst thought sod It, I give up ? Do you think the Anti-hunt got the law changed over night? Do you think Mandela thought F888 this for a game of soldiers? Do you think the protesters who just brought about the end of Japanese Whaling thought ' I give up' ?
Some campaigns take decades....they all start somewhere but thank **** I am not of your thinking In not even trying. By the time I'm dead, I'll be able to say I gave It my best shot.... Suburbia or not.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Religious Slaughter
Did anyone tell the Japanese their whaling has been banned?
What was the first question?
How long before Lawrence's memorial was put in place? (I don't know personally.......but I expect they came up with the same sort of arguments ie Is it cos we black? etc before it happened)
I would agree the food labelling should be stricter.
I would agree stunned Halal and Non stunned should be labelled.
I agree Halal should not filter unknown into the food chain.
I don't agree Halal or approved slaughter methods are so far apart that either can be called totally humane.
Halal slaughter done properly is equivilant to approved slaughter methods......in my opinion.
Good slaughterhouse methods depend on good slaughtermen.
Did I miss anything?
What was the first question?
How long before Lawrence's memorial was put in place? (I don't know personally.......but I expect they came up with the same sort of arguments ie Is it cos we black? etc before it happened)
I would agree the food labelling should be stricter.
I would agree stunned Halal and Non stunned should be labelled.
I agree Halal should not filter unknown into the food chain.
I don't agree Halal or approved slaughter methods are so far apart that either can be called totally humane.
Halal slaughter done properly is equivilant to approved slaughter methods......in my opinion.
Good slaughterhouse methods depend on good slaughtermen.
Did I miss anything?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
-
fuzzywuzzy
- Posts: 6596
- Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:35 pm
Religious Slaughter
To be honest with you all . I don't care what religion, creed, race ...whatever you want to call it does this kind of slaughtering . To begin slaughtering an animal before it is dead is wrong. (but that's my personal opinion) It won't be westeners that bring it to an end no matter how much you jump up and down about it. It will be the children and grandchildren of those who practice this slaughtering that will achieve much more because they are the ones who shoulder it. And continuing integration will pass it's course and what happened in the past will change.
-
High Threshold
- Posts: 2856
- Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:20 am
Religious Slaughter
Bruv;1455316 wrote: ...... all the animal welfare claims were just a smokescreen.
I thought you knew more than this ...
I thought you knew more than this ...
-
High Threshold
- Posts: 2856
- Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:20 am
Religious Slaughter
tude dog;1455330 wrote:
One way to look at it.
No. It is THE WAY.
tude dog;1455330 wrote: I never said I believed G-d required animal sacrifice, just that it was the practice of the time. sorry, i am at a loss
Eh? That's one hell of a back-peddle. Getting too hot for you?
One way to look at it.
No. It is THE WAY.
tude dog;1455330 wrote: I never said I believed G-d required animal sacrifice, just that it was the practice of the time. sorry, i am at a loss
Eh? That's one hell of a back-peddle. Getting too hot for you?
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Religious Slaughter
Bruv;1455370 wrote:
Did I miss anything?
Yep
You haven't answered my question. Why do you think the beliefs of every other minority and majority be Ignored ?
Right, It's 07 am... I'm off out for the day... That should give you time... Laters :wah:
Did I miss anything?
Yep
You haven't answered my question. Why do you think the beliefs of every other minority and majority be Ignored ?
Right, It's 07 am... I'm off out for the day... That should give you time... Laters :wah:
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Religious Slaughter
Oscar Sellotape;1455387 wrote: You haven't answered my question. Why do you think the beliefs of every other minority and majority be Ignored ?
How can you ask such a question? What percentage of the vote returns a government? I have been in the minority most of my life.......that's the way democracy works.
A half decent democracy looks after it's minorities, including it's Muslims.
Not too long ago there was a scandal of horse meat crossing into the beef food chain.........bear with me please.
When Halal meat crossed into non Halal meat chain you want Halal banned.......why didn't you ask for horses to be banned?
The problem is with the suppliers not with Muslims.
How was the beef detected? DNA testing.........why ? Because horse meat could not otherwise have been detected.
How was Halal detected in the non Halal side of meat production? Not by DNA testing..........because they have not yet been able to detect Islamic incantations in animal tissue......if they could do that I would convert immediately.
The way it has been found is either due to suppliers 'owning up'........or.....the traceablity built into the current system. All legal suppliers must show sources, so when Halal crosses over it is traceable, and possibly down to over production of Halal.
My opinion for what it's worth, tighten up food source accountability, remove the ability for Halal and non Halal to be interchangeable in the market place.
Make stunning compulsory in all slaughter houses, unless on religious premises, and raise standards in all slaughterhouses.
Non stunned meat would still be available but at a premium for those that really feel the need.
But of course that wouldn't placate the righteous on either side.....................but that's democracy for you.
How can you ask such a question? What percentage of the vote returns a government? I have been in the minority most of my life.......that's the way democracy works.
A half decent democracy looks after it's minorities, including it's Muslims.
Not too long ago there was a scandal of horse meat crossing into the beef food chain.........bear with me please.
When Halal meat crossed into non Halal meat chain you want Halal banned.......why didn't you ask for horses to be banned?
The problem is with the suppliers not with Muslims.
How was the beef detected? DNA testing.........why ? Because horse meat could not otherwise have been detected.
How was Halal detected in the non Halal side of meat production? Not by DNA testing..........because they have not yet been able to detect Islamic incantations in animal tissue......if they could do that I would convert immediately.
The way it has been found is either due to suppliers 'owning up'........or.....the traceablity built into the current system. All legal suppliers must show sources, so when Halal crosses over it is traceable, and possibly down to over production of Halal.
My opinion for what it's worth, tighten up food source accountability, remove the ability for Halal and non Halal to be interchangeable in the market place.
Make stunning compulsory in all slaughter houses, unless on religious premises, and raise standards in all slaughterhouses.
Non stunned meat would still be available but at a premium for those that really feel the need.
But of course that wouldn't placate the righteous on either side.....................but that's democracy for you.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Religious Slaughter
Bruv;1455398 wrote: How can you ask such a question? What percentage of the vote returns a government? I have been in the minority most of my life.......that's the way democracy works.
A half decent democracy looks after it's minorities, including it's Muslims.
Not too long ago there was a scandal of horse meat crossing into the beef food chain.........bear with me please.
When Halal meat crossed into non Halal meat chain you want Halal banned.......why didn't you ask for horses to be banned?
The problem is with the suppliers not with Muslims.
How was the beef detected? DNA testing.........why ? Because horse meat could not otherwise have been detected.
How was Halal detected in the non Halal side of meat production? Not by DNA testing..........because they have not yet been able to detect Islamic incantations in animal tissue......if they could do that I would convert immediately.
The way it has been found is either due to suppliers 'owning up'........or.....the traceablity built into the current system. All legal suppliers must show sources, so when Halal crosses over it is traceable, and possibly down to over production of Halal.
My opinion for what it's worth, tighten up food source accountability, remove the ability for Halal and non Halal to be interchangeable in the market place.
Make stunning compulsory in all slaughter houses, unless on religious premises, and raise standards in all slaughterhouses.
Non stunned meat would still be available but at a premium for those that really feel the need.
But of course that wouldn't placate the righteous on either side.....................but that's democracy for you. I agree with everything you have said because.... It's a start !!! And I would be 80 % happy If that were to follow In the years to come. Yet sometimes, when you do make a protest, you can not be wishy washy as you just won't get attention and that's the whole purpose of It. I would like at the very minimum the 13% of non stun being forced to fall In with the law.
You know, something occurred to me In one of your last posts. It was something my husband picked up on. Isn't It funny how those who do **** all about anything sneer at those who do ? See ? I have finally got you to debate and offer suggestions.
15 years ago, I proposed opening a 3rd entrance/exit for the Primary school next door to me to spread parent parking. I was told by some residents who sneered ' Ha, you'll never get that, we tried'. So I set about It and It took years. There were massive objections, the 1 million cost to create a new road, budgets, resident opposition on the East side, failure to get planning permission etc etc. Two years ago, I got them to put In parking restrictions on the understanding It would be reviewed If they failed. They did, parents still blocked drives, parked on pavements etc etc. I kept on and on and on and on. I got local press Involved, got petitions going etc etc. This year they built and opened my new road Into the school after applying to government for extra budget.
Yet when I look back at those people who seem to enjoy sneering at the efforts of others... oh how I laugh at them now.
There's a world of people like that but If I believe In something I will fight for It as I did Fox hunting bans. You may not like my methods. In fact the head teacher resigned from my residents committee over the new road because she found me so difficult, but sometimes, fighting full on Is better than sitting back and doing **** all except whinge and whine. You may not like my methods... 10,000 people apparently do..And If this fails.... I'll try something else.
ETA... Derr I forgot the point I was trying to make about the school.... I didn't get my own way all the way. I had to make concessions. I had to agree and get two elected councillors to agree with me to give up part of the field outside my house for additional parking on the North side. We were dead against It especially the Tory who at first refused to yield any green space In the village but to get my way, we had to agree... that's how Councils and Government works. You have to make concessions but If you are not tough enough Initially, you get nowhere.
A half decent democracy looks after it's minorities, including it's Muslims.
Not too long ago there was a scandal of horse meat crossing into the beef food chain.........bear with me please.
When Halal meat crossed into non Halal meat chain you want Halal banned.......why didn't you ask for horses to be banned?
The problem is with the suppliers not with Muslims.
How was the beef detected? DNA testing.........why ? Because horse meat could not otherwise have been detected.
How was Halal detected in the non Halal side of meat production? Not by DNA testing..........because they have not yet been able to detect Islamic incantations in animal tissue......if they could do that I would convert immediately.
The way it has been found is either due to suppliers 'owning up'........or.....the traceablity built into the current system. All legal suppliers must show sources, so when Halal crosses over it is traceable, and possibly down to over production of Halal.
My opinion for what it's worth, tighten up food source accountability, remove the ability for Halal and non Halal to be interchangeable in the market place.
Make stunning compulsory in all slaughter houses, unless on religious premises, and raise standards in all slaughterhouses.
Non stunned meat would still be available but at a premium for those that really feel the need.
But of course that wouldn't placate the righteous on either side.....................but that's democracy for you. I agree with everything you have said because.... It's a start !!! And I would be 80 % happy If that were to follow In the years to come. Yet sometimes, when you do make a protest, you can not be wishy washy as you just won't get attention and that's the whole purpose of It. I would like at the very minimum the 13% of non stun being forced to fall In with the law.
You know, something occurred to me In one of your last posts. It was something my husband picked up on. Isn't It funny how those who do **** all about anything sneer at those who do ? See ? I have finally got you to debate and offer suggestions.
15 years ago, I proposed opening a 3rd entrance/exit for the Primary school next door to me to spread parent parking. I was told by some residents who sneered ' Ha, you'll never get that, we tried'. So I set about It and It took years. There were massive objections, the 1 million cost to create a new road, budgets, resident opposition on the East side, failure to get planning permission etc etc. Two years ago, I got them to put In parking restrictions on the understanding It would be reviewed If they failed. They did, parents still blocked drives, parked on pavements etc etc. I kept on and on and on and on. I got local press Involved, got petitions going etc etc. This year they built and opened my new road Into the school after applying to government for extra budget.
Yet when I look back at those people who seem to enjoy sneering at the efforts of others... oh how I laugh at them now.
There's a world of people like that but If I believe In something I will fight for It as I did Fox hunting bans. You may not like my methods. In fact the head teacher resigned from my residents committee over the new road because she found me so difficult, but sometimes, fighting full on Is better than sitting back and doing **** all except whinge and whine. You may not like my methods... 10,000 people apparently do..And If this fails.... I'll try something else.
ETA... Derr I forgot the point I was trying to make about the school.... I didn't get my own way all the way. I had to make concessions. I had to agree and get two elected councillors to agree with me to give up part of the field outside my house for additional parking on the North side. We were dead against It especially the Tory who at first refused to yield any green space In the village but to get my way, we had to agree... that's how Councils and Government works. You have to make concessions but If you are not tough enough Initially, you get nowhere.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Religious Slaughter
Oscar Sellotape;1455400 wrote: I have finally got you to debate and offer suggestionsBugger off.....this is a forum......I joined before I knew you......I formed my opinions/debating techniques looooong before I knew of your existance.
You may not like my methods. In fact the head teacher resigned ..................... because she found me so difficult,............. Don't be too hard on yourself...............but I know how she feelsYou may not like my methods... You said that alreadyETA... Derr I forgot the point I was trying to make......................... That's nothing new.........carry on
I didn't get my own way all the way. I had to make concessions. I had to agree and get two elected councillors to agree with me
Thank goodness there is a resistance to you.......like a modern day Dad's Army.....or you will take over the whole kit and caboodle............not while I have breathe in me you wont.
You may not like my methods. In fact the head teacher resigned ..................... because she found me so difficult,............. Don't be too hard on yourself...............but I know how she feelsYou may not like my methods... You said that alreadyETA... Derr I forgot the point I was trying to make......................... That's nothing new.........carry on
I didn't get my own way all the way. I had to make concessions. I had to agree and get two elected councillors to agree with me
Thank goodness there is a resistance to you.......like a modern day Dad's Army.....or you will take over the whole kit and caboodle............not while I have breathe in me you wont.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Religious Slaughter
Bruv;1455406 wrote: breathe in me you wont. I don't have to... you are sleepwalking Into a Far Right Government due to British complacency and apathy.
And frankly, If that's all you've got then I feel perversely let down by you.
And frankly, If that's all you've got then I feel perversely let down by you.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Religious Slaughter
Bruv;1455406 wrote: Bugger off.....this is a forum......I joined before I knew you......I formed my opinions/debating techniques looooong before I knew of your existance.
Don't be too hard on yourself...............but I know how she feelsYou said that alreadyThat's nothing new.........carry on
Thank goodness there is a resistance to you.......like a modern day Dad's Army.....or you will take over the whole kit and caboodle............not while I have breathe in me you wont. Funny old world... I have just spent 10 minutes looking at your threads posted since December. I wouldn't waste ten minutes doing this with anyone else but your comments made me wonder so I went looking.
Female Genital Mutilation
My Brother The Islamist
BNP Video
BNP by Neil Hamilton
St Georges day
State Schools Isolate Non Muslims
Love for all... Hatred for none...Muslim leaflets
Student Loans Sharia style
Herr Griffin ( BNP )
Europe takes UK To Court ( Migrant Workers )
Human Rights and Wrongs.... ( Illegal Immigrants )
Racial Harassment
Benifity Wszyskie ( Polish on benefits)
Freedom of Speech ( Re: writing about burning down a Mosque )
USA goes Anti Gay
Gay Dad's Deception
Illegal after 15 years.... ( Illegal Immigrant )
Baiting Muslims ( Britain First Far Right )
Passed Wind Racially
India and Homosexuality
And I'm the racist ... to quote MJ... I starting with the man In the mirror.... oh and the best bit ??? It was me who had to ask you to refrain from using ' Mossie's and Muzzy's on this forum.
Don't be too hard on yourself...............but I know how she feelsYou said that alreadyThat's nothing new.........carry on
Thank goodness there is a resistance to you.......like a modern day Dad's Army.....or you will take over the whole kit and caboodle............not while I have breathe in me you wont. Funny old world... I have just spent 10 minutes looking at your threads posted since December. I wouldn't waste ten minutes doing this with anyone else but your comments made me wonder so I went looking.
Female Genital Mutilation
My Brother The Islamist
BNP Video
BNP by Neil Hamilton
St Georges day
State Schools Isolate Non Muslims
Love for all... Hatred for none...Muslim leaflets
Student Loans Sharia style
Herr Griffin ( BNP )
Europe takes UK To Court ( Migrant Workers )
Human Rights and Wrongs.... ( Illegal Immigrants )
Racial Harassment
Benifity Wszyskie ( Polish on benefits)
Freedom of Speech ( Re: writing about burning down a Mosque )
USA goes Anti Gay
Gay Dad's Deception
Illegal after 15 years.... ( Illegal Immigrant )
Baiting Muslims ( Britain First Far Right )
Passed Wind Racially
India and Homosexuality
And I'm the racist ... to quote MJ... I starting with the man In the mirror.... oh and the best bit ??? It was me who had to ask you to refrain from using ' Mossie's and Muzzy's on this forum.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Religious Slaughter
Oscar Sellotape;1455408 wrote: And frankly, If that's all you've got then I feel perversely let down by you.
As your protege do you mean?
As the one who you have finally got to debate and to offer suggestions?
I am truely sorry for letting you down......I will try harder in future.
As your protege do you mean?
As the one who you have finally got to debate and to offer suggestions?
I am truely sorry for letting you down......I will try harder in future.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Religious Slaughter
Bruv;1455417 wrote: As your protege do you mean?
As the one who you have finally got to debate and to offer suggestions?
I am truely sorry for letting you down......I will try harder in future. The reason I highlighted your threads was because we all have beliefs, passions and views In life. We all want different things In life and your thread history tells a story about what's Important to you. There Is a world of difference between disagreeing with another person but trashing someone's efforts just to be a b.itch Is something else. Compromise and concession goes much further than b.itchiness In life. It doesn't mean however, that we think anything less of anyone just because they oppose our views. That's providing we have some kind of respect for opposing views as I do you..... so ner
As the one who you have finally got to debate and to offer suggestions?
I am truely sorry for letting you down......I will try harder in future. The reason I highlighted your threads was because we all have beliefs, passions and views In life. We all want different things In life and your thread history tells a story about what's Important to you. There Is a world of difference between disagreeing with another person but trashing someone's efforts just to be a b.itch Is something else. Compromise and concession goes much further than b.itchiness In life. It doesn't mean however, that we think anything less of anyone just because they oppose our views. That's providing we have some kind of respect for opposing views as I do you..... so ner
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Religious Slaughter
Oscar Sellotape;1455411 wrote: Funny old world... I have just spent 10 minutes looking at your threads posted since December. I wouldn't waste ten minutes doing this with anyone else but your comments made me wonder so I went looking.
Female Genital Mutilation
My Brother The Islamist
BNP Video
BNP by Neil Hamilton
St Georges day
State Schools Isolate Non Muslims
Love for all... Hatred for none...Muslim leaflets
Student Loans Sharia style
Herr Griffin ( BNP )
Europe takes UK To Court ( Migrant Workers )
Human Rights and Wrongs.... ( Illegal Immigrants )
Racial Harassment
Benifity Wszyskie ( Polish on benefits)
Freedom of Speech ( Re: writing about burning down a Mosque )
USA goes Anti Gay
Gay Dad's Deception
Illegal after 15 years.... ( Illegal Immigrant )
Baiting Muslims ( Britain First Far Right )
Passed Wind Racially
India and Homosexuality
And I'm the racist ... to quote MJ... I starting with the man In the mirror.... oh and the best bit ??? It was me who had to ask you to refrain from using ' Mossie's and Muzzy's on this forum.
Don't remember calling anyone racist recently.....but......I am flattered the utterances of Bruv have occupied so much of your time.
Better read the one where as a white man married to a black African women I questioned my position on race, recognising and questioning my own prejudices.
To be fair the use of mossie was done self deprecatingly and it was myself that said I wish I wouldn't use such terms.
Self contemplation is good in moderation, as oppossed to naval gazing.
Female Genital Mutilation
My Brother The Islamist
BNP Video
BNP by Neil Hamilton
St Georges day
State Schools Isolate Non Muslims
Love for all... Hatred for none...Muslim leaflets
Student Loans Sharia style
Herr Griffin ( BNP )
Europe takes UK To Court ( Migrant Workers )
Human Rights and Wrongs.... ( Illegal Immigrants )
Racial Harassment
Benifity Wszyskie ( Polish on benefits)
Freedom of Speech ( Re: writing about burning down a Mosque )
USA goes Anti Gay
Gay Dad's Deception
Illegal after 15 years.... ( Illegal Immigrant )
Baiting Muslims ( Britain First Far Right )
Passed Wind Racially
India and Homosexuality
And I'm the racist ... to quote MJ... I starting with the man In the mirror.... oh and the best bit ??? It was me who had to ask you to refrain from using ' Mossie's and Muzzy's on this forum.
Don't remember calling anyone racist recently.....but......I am flattered the utterances of Bruv have occupied so much of your time.
Better read the one where as a white man married to a black African women I questioned my position on race, recognising and questioning my own prejudices.
To be fair the use of mossie was done self deprecatingly and it was myself that said I wish I wouldn't use such terms.
Self contemplation is good in moderation, as oppossed to naval gazing.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Religious Slaughter
This is turning into a love in.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Religious Slaughter
Bruv;1455425 wrote: Don't remember calling anyone racist recently.....but......I am flattered the utterances of Bruv have occupied so much of your time.
Better read the one where as a white man married to a black African women I questioned my position on race, recognising and questioning my own prejudices.
To be fair the use of mossie was done self deprecatingly and it was myself that said I wish I wouldn't use such terms.
Self contemplation is good in moderation, as oppossed to naval gazing.
Yet If I was a psychologist going by your threads alone, I'd have you down as an anti gay, Illegal Immigrant with a man crush on Nick Griffin and a yearning to join the BNP
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
You see how much can be read Into something that's not there ?
Better read the one where as a white man married to a black African women I questioned my position on race, recognising and questioning my own prejudices.
To be fair the use of mossie was done self deprecatingly and it was myself that said I wish I wouldn't use such terms.
Self contemplation is good in moderation, as oppossed to naval gazing.
Yet If I was a psychologist going by your threads alone, I'd have you down as an anti gay, Illegal Immigrant with a man crush on Nick Griffin and a yearning to join the BNP
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
You see how much can be read Into something that's not there ?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Religious Slaughter
Bruv;1455426 wrote: This is turning into a love in. You know It makes sense Rodney.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Religious Slaughter
fuzzywuzzy;1455380 wrote: To begin slaughtering an animal before it is dead is wrong. (but that's my personal opinion)
Not only wrong in my opinion, but NOT KOSHER.
Not only wrong in my opinion, but NOT KOSHER.
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
Religious Slaughter
High Threshold;1455385 wrote: No. It is THE WAY.
Oh Gee, till now, who knew?
High Threshold;1455385 wrote: Eh? That's one hell of a back-peddle. Getting too hot for you?
I've answered you the best I can. This has become really tiresome.
Oh Gee, till now, who knew?
High Threshold;1455385 wrote: Eh? That's one hell of a back-peddle. Getting too hot for you?
I've answered you the best I can. This has become really tiresome.
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
-
High Threshold
- Posts: 2856
- Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:20 am
Religious Slaughter
How heart-breaking seeing two admirable people at one another's throat. :yh_nailbi
Ps. Sorry Tude, I'm referring to someone else.
Ps. Sorry Tude, I'm referring to someone else.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Religious Slaughter
Last night my E Petition went over 10,000.
Whilst ordinarily any E Petition must reach 100,000 to be debated In Parliament, my local MP assured me that should I get 10,000 signatures, and I prepared something, he'd look at It and we could meet to discuss It.
So 10,000 was my own personal target and I know he'll be true to his word.
For the critics who think 10,000 signatures can be sniffed at, then try Inviting them round to your back garden for a BBQ !
From little acorns etc etc.... It's a start. that's the positive.
Whilst ordinarily any E Petition must reach 100,000 to be debated In Parliament, my local MP assured me that should I get 10,000 signatures, and I prepared something, he'd look at It and we could meet to discuss It.
So 10,000 was my own personal target and I know he'll be true to his word.
For the critics who think 10,000 signatures can be sniffed at, then try Inviting them round to your back garden for a BBQ !
From little acorns etc etc.... It's a start. that's the positive.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Religious Slaughter
Congrats, Oscar. Too few are willing to take direct action on things important to them.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Religious Slaughter
Accountable;1456290 wrote: Congrats, Oscar. Too few are willing to take direct action on things important to them. That means a lot to me Accountable especially from a chap like yourself.
Decades ago, we started campaigning to have Fox Hunting made Illegal. Oh how they scoffed. That started with petitions also. Laws will take decades sometimes to overturn or bring In but what a sorry mess the world would be In If everyone just did nothing.
I may not get very far with this, who knows? but It's a start, that's the Important thing.
My local MP Is a good egg. He risked his entire political career to be In court with me every day when I was on trial. Since then, we've become good friends. At least I can sit down with him and discuss It. He may at least be able to push for all non-stun meat to be labeled ( a compromise).
Since the petition, I had a huge amount of people contact me asking what's next ?
And If I fail miserably.... then I tried and stuff the critics.
Decades ago, we started campaigning to have Fox Hunting made Illegal. Oh how they scoffed. That started with petitions also. Laws will take decades sometimes to overturn or bring In but what a sorry mess the world would be In If everyone just did nothing.
I may not get very far with this, who knows? but It's a start, that's the Important thing.
My local MP Is a good egg. He risked his entire political career to be In court with me every day when I was on trial. Since then, we've become good friends. At least I can sit down with him and discuss It. He may at least be able to push for all non-stun meat to be labeled ( a compromise).
Since the petition, I had a huge amount of people contact me asking what's next ?
And If I fail miserably.... then I tried and stuff the critics.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Religious Slaughter
Today, I had my meeting via Skype and talked at length re: non stun slaughter and the religious aspect of how that may be offensive to other religious minorities In the UK. Not with my local MP but I was passed on ( as a favour) to another more Informed on the voting for labelling In the HOC.
It was agreed that a proportion of the electorate were In the dark as to non stun methods due to no labelling and for that, we could not make a choice when buying from large outlets. It was agreed that petitions however few signatures were on them are a useful tool In bringing awareness. It was agreed over 10,000 sigs was not to be sniffed at.
The outcome was no promises but recognition that to a nation of animal lovers, non stun may be abhorant. I've been advised how to go about applying for more pressure to at least get more media attention and awareness and I will be doing this. MP's voted against labelling of Halal non stun very recently and one MP can't change this themselves. The way forward Is to keep up awareness and pressure will follow maybe In time forcing another vote.
It's a start and at least I got to speak on behalf of so many people. I wasn't treated like an Idiot by someone who thought he knew It all without presenting anything In return....and my opinions were respected.... I can work with someone like that and compromise.
eta... oh and just for the record... the wording of my E Petition was described as hitting all the spots In one short piece without waffle, the animal welfare concern, the religious aspect and the ambiguity of what we are buying. Apparently It hit all aspects.
It was agreed that a proportion of the electorate were In the dark as to non stun methods due to no labelling and for that, we could not make a choice when buying from large outlets. It was agreed that petitions however few signatures were on them are a useful tool In bringing awareness. It was agreed over 10,000 sigs was not to be sniffed at.
The outcome was no promises but recognition that to a nation of animal lovers, non stun may be abhorant. I've been advised how to go about applying for more pressure to at least get more media attention and awareness and I will be doing this. MP's voted against labelling of Halal non stun very recently and one MP can't change this themselves. The way forward Is to keep up awareness and pressure will follow maybe In time forcing another vote.
It's a start and at least I got to speak on behalf of so many people. I wasn't treated like an Idiot by someone who thought he knew It all without presenting anything In return....and my opinions were respected.... I can work with someone like that and compromise.
eta... oh and just for the record... the wording of my E Petition was described as hitting all the spots In one short piece without waffle, the animal welfare concern, the religious aspect and the ambiguity of what we are buying. Apparently It hit all aspects.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Religious Slaughter
My beliefs here may be considered non P.C., for which I make no apologies. I find P.C. to be about the most contemptible thing to be introduced ever.
As I have made clear in other posts, I believe that if anyone wishes to integrate into our country, they should abide by our laws & culture & not expect us to kow-tow to theirs, and the same should apply to anyone from this country who decide to resettle elsewhere.
We have laws regarding the minimising of suffering of animals during the slaughter process, yet we allow these laws to be cast by the wayside when other Religious cultures demand that they be permitted to perform their barbaric ritual slaughters, despite the laws of the rest of the country.
I say that if they refuse to eat non ritually slaughtered meat, let them remain vegetarian. The law should remain the law & not make exceptions to those who believe that they should be exempt.
As I have made clear in other posts, I believe that if anyone wishes to integrate into our country, they should abide by our laws & culture & not expect us to kow-tow to theirs, and the same should apply to anyone from this country who decide to resettle elsewhere.
We have laws regarding the minimising of suffering of animals during the slaughter process, yet we allow these laws to be cast by the wayside when other Religious cultures demand that they be permitted to perform their barbaric ritual slaughters, despite the laws of the rest of the country.
I say that if they refuse to eat non ritually slaughtered meat, let them remain vegetarian. The law should remain the law & not make exceptions to those who believe that they should be exempt.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Religious Slaughter
FourPart;1458729 wrote: My beliefs here may be considered non P.C., for which I make no apologies. I find P.C. to be about the most contemptible thing to be introduced ever.
As I have made clear in other posts, I believe that if anyone wishes to integrate into our country, they should abide by our laws & culture & not expect us to kow-tow to theirs, and the same should apply to anyone from this country who decide to resettle elsewhere.
We have laws regarding the minimising of suffering of animals during the slaughter process, yet we allow these laws to be cast by the wayside when other Religious cultures demand that they be permitted to perform their barbaric ritual slaughters, despite the laws of the rest of the country.
I say that if they refuse to eat non ritually slaughtered meat, let them remain vegetarian. The law should remain the law & not make exceptions to those who believe that they should be exempt. I thoroughly appreciate your honest reply. So many go with the flow for fear of PC.
My view Is that I am happy with religious exemption In a diverse country such as exemption of wearing a crash helmet with Sikh's because that exemption stays within the Sikh community and Is not forced upon the masses.
I have been an anti-hunt and animal welfare campaigner all of my life although not rabid. eg, I'm happy for a farmer to humanely shoot a troublesome Fox In Lambing season. Yet, I do not want an animal to suffer to feed me. I expect our laws to be adhered to simply because they passed through Parliament for good reason.
I do not want my food blessed In the name of Allah when I was raised as a Christian, nor do our Jews, Sikh's, Hindu's, agnostics, even scientologists.
I do not want non stun slaughter to be slipped surreptitiously unlabelled by stealth Into our food chains.
If the very least we achieve In the future Is that non stun Is clearly labelled, our population will have a choice. That choice could lead to a dramatic decrease In demand.... that's a start,
As I have made clear in other posts, I believe that if anyone wishes to integrate into our country, they should abide by our laws & culture & not expect us to kow-tow to theirs, and the same should apply to anyone from this country who decide to resettle elsewhere.
We have laws regarding the minimising of suffering of animals during the slaughter process, yet we allow these laws to be cast by the wayside when other Religious cultures demand that they be permitted to perform their barbaric ritual slaughters, despite the laws of the rest of the country.
I say that if they refuse to eat non ritually slaughtered meat, let them remain vegetarian. The law should remain the law & not make exceptions to those who believe that they should be exempt. I thoroughly appreciate your honest reply. So many go with the flow for fear of PC.
My view Is that I am happy with religious exemption In a diverse country such as exemption of wearing a crash helmet with Sikh's because that exemption stays within the Sikh community and Is not forced upon the masses.
I have been an anti-hunt and animal welfare campaigner all of my life although not rabid. eg, I'm happy for a farmer to humanely shoot a troublesome Fox In Lambing season. Yet, I do not want an animal to suffer to feed me. I expect our laws to be adhered to simply because they passed through Parliament for good reason.
I do not want my food blessed In the name of Allah when I was raised as a Christian, nor do our Jews, Sikh's, Hindu's, agnostics, even scientologists.
I do not want non stun slaughter to be slipped surreptitiously unlabelled by stealth Into our food chains.
If the very least we achieve In the future Is that non stun Is clearly labelled, our population will have a choice. That choice could lead to a dramatic decrease In demand.... that's a start,
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
-
High Threshold
- Posts: 2856
- Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:20 am
Religious Slaughter
FourPart;1458729 wrote: My beliefs here may be considered non P.C., for which I make no apologies. I find P.C. to be about the most contemptible thing to be introduced ever.
As I have made clear in other posts, I believe that if anyone wishes to integrate into our country, they should abide by our laws & culture & not expect us to kow-tow to theirs, and the same should apply to anyone from this country who decide to resettle elsewhere.
We have laws regarding the minimising of suffering of animals during the slaughter process, yet we allow these laws to be cast by the wayside when other Religious cultures demand that they be permitted to perform their barbaric ritual slaughters, despite the laws of the rest of the country.
I say that if they refuse to eat non ritually slaughtered meat, let them remain vegetarian. The law should remain the law & not make exceptions to those who believe that they should be exempt.
I agree to a very large extent but (as is my wont) I try to find an example that goes against the grain, only to be fair, and I may have suceeded. Alcohol is forbidden by Islamic law, no more so than in Saudi Arabia. I've never actually been to Saudi myself but I do believe that foreigners are allowed to purchase and consume the stuff in designated areas, such as hotel pubs. But please correct me if I'm wrong.
As I have made clear in other posts, I believe that if anyone wishes to integrate into our country, they should abide by our laws & culture & not expect us to kow-tow to theirs, and the same should apply to anyone from this country who decide to resettle elsewhere.
We have laws regarding the minimising of suffering of animals during the slaughter process, yet we allow these laws to be cast by the wayside when other Religious cultures demand that they be permitted to perform their barbaric ritual slaughters, despite the laws of the rest of the country.
I say that if they refuse to eat non ritually slaughtered meat, let them remain vegetarian. The law should remain the law & not make exceptions to those who believe that they should be exempt.
I agree to a very large extent but (as is my wont) I try to find an example that goes against the grain, only to be fair, and I may have suceeded. Alcohol is forbidden by Islamic law, no more so than in Saudi Arabia. I've never actually been to Saudi myself but I do believe that foreigners are allowed to purchase and consume the stuff in designated areas, such as hotel pubs. But please correct me if I'm wrong.
Religious Slaughter
I get what you say about the Sikhs, although I still believe that as it is the law, then they should abide by that law or not ride a motorbike. However, I'm not 100% in favour of the compulsory law regarding helmets anyway (with the exception of children riding as pillion passengers, of course). After all, anyone who decides not to use one is a fool unto themselves & is only their own lives that they're putting at risk - besides, we need more organ donors.
The point is that the law should be the law & not have to be modified left right & centre to all comers. If this law was totally adhered to across the board there would be no need for separate labeling as you would already know the standards by which the animal had been slaughtered.
The point is that the law should be the law & not have to be modified left right & centre to all comers. If this law was totally adhered to across the board there would be no need for separate labeling as you would already know the standards by which the animal had been slaughtered.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Religious Slaughter
FourPart;1458738 wrote: I get what you say about the Sikhs, although I still believe that as it is the law, then they should abide by that law or not ride a motorbike. However, I'm not 100% in favour of the compulsory law regarding helmets anyway (with the exception of children riding as pillion passengers, of course). After all, anyone who decides not to use one is a fool unto themselves & is only their own lives that they're putting at risk - besides, we need more organ donors.
The point is that the law should be the law & not have to be modified left right & centre to all comers. If this law was totally adhered to across the board there would be no need for separate labeling as you would already know the standards by which the animal had been slaughtered.
You are such a refreshing addition to this forum as was Highthreshold when he joined.
Until such time that all non stun slaughter houses are shut down and the Islamic prayer taken out of those who do stun, labelling may the fast track way forward as I was advised this morning... slide Into the back door.
The point is that the law should be the law & not have to be modified left right & centre to all comers. If this law was totally adhered to across the board there would be no need for separate labeling as you would already know the standards by which the animal had been slaughtered.
You are such a refreshing addition to this forum as was Highthreshold when he joined.
Until such time that all non stun slaughter houses are shut down and the Islamic prayer taken out of those who do stun, labelling may the fast track way forward as I was advised this morning... slide Into the back door.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Religious Slaughter
Sikhs that injure themselves due to not wearing helmets put a financial burden on the health service, so their action affects us all.
Mixing halal meat with non halal is a distribution problem. Greedy distributors top up non halal deliveries with over produced halal meat supplies.
Whether halal non stun slaughter in less humane than stunned slaughter is still debateable.
Mixing halal meat with non halal is a distribution problem. Greedy distributors top up non halal deliveries with over produced halal meat supplies.
Whether halal non stun slaughter in less humane than stunned slaughter is still debateable.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Religious Slaughter
Bruv;1458772 wrote: Sikhs that injure themselves due to not wearing helmets put a financial burden on the health service, so their action affects us all.
Mixing halal meat with non halal is a distribution problem. Greedy distributors top up non halal deliveries with over produced halal meat supplies.
Whether halal non stun slaughter in less humane than stunned slaughter is still debateable. Do you mean debatable ?
I'll take years of detailed research by the RSPCA, the FSA, and the FAWC as my bench mark.
Not all Sikh's ride motor bikes. Not all Sikh's crash them when they do. Many Sikh's may have private health care. I bet the proportion of Sikh's draining resources from the NHS following a motor bike crash Is far less than the twats who get stranded up some Scottish Mountain they decided to scale wearing flip flops.
Go on then... show me stats for Sikh's draining the NHS from motor bike crashes... or Is that just an opinion ?
Mixing halal meat with non halal is a distribution problem. Greedy distributors top up non halal deliveries with over produced halal meat supplies.
Whether halal non stun slaughter in less humane than stunned slaughter is still debateable. Do you mean debatable ?
I'll take years of detailed research by the RSPCA, the FSA, and the FAWC as my bench mark.
Not all Sikh's ride motor bikes. Not all Sikh's crash them when they do. Many Sikh's may have private health care. I bet the proportion of Sikh's draining resources from the NHS following a motor bike crash Is far less than the twats who get stranded up some Scottish Mountain they decided to scale wearing flip flops.
Go on then... show me stats for Sikh's draining the NHS from motor bike crashes... or Is that just an opinion ?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Religious Slaughter
Oscar Namechange;1458774 wrote: Do you mean debatable ? Yes thats what I meant......thank you
I'll take years of detailed research by the RSPCA, the FSA, and the FAWC as my bench mark.
Not PETA ?
Why not ask Bensons and Hedges about cigarettes ?
I still reckon it's debateable.......wholesale streamlined animal slaughter is a brutal trade.......as soon as the Inspectors are out the door.
Not all Sikh's ride motor bikes. Not all Sikh's crash them when they do. Many Sikh's may have private health care. I bet the proportion of Sikh's draining resources from the NHS following a motor bike crash Is far less than the twats who get stranded up some Scottish Mountain they decided to scale wearing flip flops.
Go on then... show me stats for Sikh's draining the NHS from motor bike crashes... or Is that just an opinion ?
I am talking about the principle of allowing different religions exemptions from the law.
You focus on everything other than the solution to the problem.......the distribution problem.
You want non stunned labelled? (Correct my spelling of labeled if you wish)
Sort out the distributors, keep the two streams of supply seperate.
I'll take years of detailed research by the RSPCA, the FSA, and the FAWC as my bench mark.
Not PETA ?
Why not ask Bensons and Hedges about cigarettes ?
I still reckon it's debateable.......wholesale streamlined animal slaughter is a brutal trade.......as soon as the Inspectors are out the door.
Not all Sikh's ride motor bikes. Not all Sikh's crash them when they do. Many Sikh's may have private health care. I bet the proportion of Sikh's draining resources from the NHS following a motor bike crash Is far less than the twats who get stranded up some Scottish Mountain they decided to scale wearing flip flops.
Go on then... show me stats for Sikh's draining the NHS from motor bike crashes... or Is that just an opinion ?
I am talking about the principle of allowing different religions exemptions from the law.
You focus on everything other than the solution to the problem.......the distribution problem.
You want non stunned labelled? (Correct my spelling of labeled if you wish)
Sort out the distributors, keep the two streams of supply seperate.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth