Religious Slaughter

[Oscar Namechange]

Halal Meat: What is the Christian Position? - Christian Voice UK

Top vet calls for reform of kosher and halal slaughter practices | World news | The Guardian

How do we feel about this ?

Should religious slaughter be tolerated In countries where we have strict slaughter house regulations ?

[Accountable]

Sorry. It's food, nothing more to me. We do lots of cruel and inhumane things to our food before killing it. This is just one more thing, seems to me.

[Oscar Namechange]

Accountable;1453391 wrote: Sorry. It's food, nothing more to me. We do lots of cruel and inhumane things to our food before killing it. This is just one more thing, seems to me. Ok, then do you think every animal slaughtered should be blessed In the name of Allah as It has It's throat slit open. ?

[LarsMac]

Kosher, Halal, whatever. Food is food.

I think that we should treat our food humanely before we kill it.

Whether someone blesses it or not is irrelevant to me.

[High Threshold]

Who knows really? It is said that bleeding to death is the easiest of all. Weakness, drowsiness, sleep, good night. What do I know? Moslems bleed the animal to death .... Gosh! But they spare the pig - we don't .... Golly! It's animals we're talking about but what about circumcision? What's humane about that?

[Oscar Namechange]

As a world, us humans are hypocritical.

We generally don't like seeing any suffer until It comes to our food, then It's OK. Why Is It OK ? Because we believe that humans are the superior race and In order for us to be fed, we can dismiss another species life?

First of all, The reason Muslims bleed their animals In slaughter Is because they believe death should come when the heart stops beating. British laws and regs using bolt guns to the brain means death Is by the brain. They do not spare the pig. There Is nothing sparing about It.

The Holy Koran

“Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah.”

Pigs are considered dirty as they can thrive In muck and feces.

If ' food Is food' why does any country have strict regulated slaughterhouse laws? As In any cause, the effect Is to cause the animal the least suffering as humanly possible, yet we flout those laws when It comes to religious slaughter ? We pander to a religion, an Ideal to excuse unnecessary suffering to another species. Label It with a religion and It becomes acceptable ????

[High Threshold]

Oscar Mate;1453424 wrote: As a world, us humans are hypocritical.

We generally don't like seeing any suffer until It comes to our food, then It's OK. Why Is It OK ? Because we believe that humans are the superior race and In order for us to be fed, we can dismiss another species life?

First of all, The reason Muslims bleed their animals In slaughter Is because they believe death should come when the heart stops beating. British laws and regs using bolt guns to the brain means death Is by the brain. They do not spare the pig. There Is nothing sparing about It.

The Holy Koran

“Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah.”

Pigs are considered dirty as they can thrive In muck and feces.

If ' food Is food' why does any country have strict regulated slaughterhouse laws? As In any cause, the effect Is to cause the animal the least suffering as humanly possible, yet we flout those laws when It comes to religious slaughter ? We pander to a religion, an Ideal to excuse unnecessary suffering to another species. Label It with a religion and It becomes acceptable ????


The thing is, there is a whole lot of hypocrisy all round. How do "vegetarians" know that plants don't suffer ... because we cannot hear their screams? I'm a bonsai-ist and I've heard some criticism stating that bonsai techniques are torturous to plants. Funny that most of the critique comes from vegetarians!

I think anti-cruelty laws are fair, for the most part, and they can just as well be implemented for the slaughter of cattle. But then, is slaughtering animals not cruel anyway? I guess it depends upon how hungry you are.

[Bruv]

And do you think with their heightened sense of smell and animal instincts, forcing creatures wholesale through a slaughter house with the smells and noises associated is humane?

I have never understood that idea.

All meat eaters should have to slaughter their own meat once in their lives in as humane way as they see fit at least once, pontificating about it is not good enough.

I don't believe that Halal or Kosher slaughter methods are any more or less humane than our so called good practice slaughter in all honesty.

[High Threshold]

Bruv;1453429 wrote:

I don't believe that Halal or Kosher slaughter methods are any more or less humane than our so called good practice slaughter in all honesty.


You might be right.

[Snowfire]

Bruv;1453429 wrote: And do you think with their heightened sense of smell and animal instincts, forcing creatures wholesale through a slaughter house with the smells and noises associated is humane?

I have never understood that idea.

All meat eaters should have to slaughter their own meat once in their lives in as humane way as they see fit at least once, pontificating about it is not good enough.

I don't believe that Halal or Kosher slaughter methods are any more or less humane than our so called good practice slaughter in all honesty.


That largely sums up how I feel on the subject. I have killed and butchered rabbit. Not sure how I'd feel toward doing the same to a larger animal but if push came to shove....

[Oscar Namechange]

The other aspect Is the animal blessed In the name of Allah. I don't care what anyone's religion Is, each to their own but I believe as a Christian country ( don't forget our Prime Minister has recently got Into trouble for saying that) we should not be pandering to any religion.

I am not against Mosques, Muslims need to pray but I don't want someone else's beliefs forced upon me. If they want Halal meat, then I don't believe my government should breach our slaughter regs and laws and allow Halal slaughter houses here. They can Import It.

[Bruv]

What do you care what the slaughterman mutters? You don't have to attend the event.

You might be offended by the language in an English slaughterhouse.

[Oscar Namechange]

Bruv;1453458 wrote: What do you care what the slaughterman mutters? You don't have to attend the event.

You might be offended by the language in an English slaughterhouse. There's another aspect.

Advertising.

OK, so by your reckoning, Muslims will eat meat blessed In the name of Jesus Christ ????

[Bruv]

Oscar Mate;1453463 wrote: There's another aspect.

Advertising.

OK, so by your reckoning, Muslims will eat meat blessed In the name of Jesus Christ ????


How did you jump to that?

I don't particularly care how my Sunday roast is killed, I eat stuff that other religions believe unclean, if Muslims feel the need to believe their meat is killed in a special way so be it, I don't believe every beast is prayed over anyway, I don't believe every English slaughterhouse is blameless either.

[AnneBoleyn]

I'm with my mate Bruv here, oscar. Who cares? The thing is the poor animal is killed & we eat it. Maybe I'll turn vegetabletarian.

[Oscar Namechange]

AnneBoleyn;1453466 wrote: I'm with my mate Bruv here, oscar. Who cares? The thing is the poor animal is killed & we eat it. Maybe I'll turn vegetabletarian. I'm not vegetarian. But If animals are killed to feed us, that's one thing. For an animal to suffer to feed me, Is another.

I had the experience of sitting through a conference on Halal meat a couple of years ago where we were shown actual recorded footage. I had to walk out after a few minutes...

[Oscar Namechange]

Bruv;1453465 wrote: How did you jump to that?

I don't particularly care how my Sunday roast is killed, I eat stuff that other religions believe unclean, if Muslims feel the need to believe their meat is killed in a special way so be it, I don't believe every beast is prayed over anyway, I don't believe every English slaughterhouse is blameless either. " Who cares what someone mumbles"

A Muslim would care If you mumbled ' In the name of our saviour Jesus Christ.

The hypocrisy... Go and buy a Cow. Slit It's throat In your back garden. I'd bet you'd be In a police cell under animal cruelty laws by the end of the day. Have you actually seen footage of a Halal slaughterhouse?

[Bruv]

Oscar Mate;1453474 wrote: " Who cares what someone mumbles"

A Muslim would care If you mumbled ' In the name of our saviour Jesus Christ.

The hypocrisy... Go and buy a Cow. Slit It's throat In your back garden. I'd bet you'd be In a police cell under animal cruelty laws by the end of the day. Have you actually seen footage of a Halal slaughterhouse?


Would the Muslim be correct ?

I don't base my life on other's beliefs, do you?

Muslims don't slaughter in their back garden do they ?

Yes I have witnessed both slaughter methods, only on TV, I passed a abattoir daily for several years and can report they chuck up a bit at times.

[Accountable]

Oscar Mate;1453414 wrote: Ok, then do you think every animal slaughtered should be blessed In the name of Allah as It has It's throat slit open. ?
It really doesn't matter to me if it is blessed or not. If it makes someone feel better, then fine. Blessed or not, if I'm hungry, I'm eating.

[Accountable]

Bruv;1453429 wrote: And do you think with their heightened sense of smell and animal instincts, forcing creatures wholesale through a slaughter house with the smells and noises associated is humane?

I have never understood that idea.

All meat eaters should have to slaughter their own meat once in their lives in as humane way as they see fit at least once, pontificating about it is not good enough.

I don't believe that Halal or Kosher slaughter methods are any more or less humane than our so called good practice slaughter in all honesty.


That's an excellent suggestion. Living on a small farm as a child taught me an awful lot about the cycle of life. Watching puppies being made, then born, then grow into dogs, then get hit by a car because he was so stupid as to try to catch it. .. Watching a calf being born. Watching a cow butchered, packaged, and then enjoying a great steak. I know I'm doing a horrible job of describing the experience, but I think it helped me understand life.

[Betty Boop]

This quote is from the originally quoted article;

But he said that the debate should be "moved forward so that the animals are stunned" before being killed. And he said that the BVA would like a "collective meeting of minds [with religious groups] to review the science".



Top vet calls for reform of kosher and halal slaughter practices | World news | The Guardian



Yet also in the Guardian I came across this, so yes, religious slaughter should be allowed here because the majority of it IS actually meeting our standards for humane slaughter.

anner headlines about "ritually slaughtered meat" conceal the fact that, according to a 2012 Food Standards Agency report cited by the RSPCA, 97% of cattle, 96% of poultry and 90% of sheep slaughtered using the halal method in UK abattoirs are stunned before being killed – a procedure that makes them insensible to pain and distress.

That, of course, means that up to 10% of British halal meat may come from animals that have not been slaughtered in a way animal welfare experts consider humane: some stricter Muslims insist stunning is not halal, and some halal authentication bodies – of which there are five in the UK alone – deem it an offence against Qur'anic law and tradition. But the halal meat served by KFC, Nando's, Pizza Express and Subway is certified by bodies that do permit pre-stunning. These chains stress that their suppliers are "contractually obliged" to provide only pre-stunned meat, that all EU and UK legislation has been met, and, in the words of KFC, that "none of our welfare standards have been compromised".

Which restaurant chains have gone halal – and why? | Life and style The Guardian

So, Just 10% MAY not be stunned, where is the problem exactly?

More scaremongering IMO.

[High Threshold]

Accountable;1453492 wrote: It really doesn't matter to me if it is blessed or not. If it makes someone feel better, then fine. Blessed or not, if I'm hungry, I'm eating.


Blessed are the cheesemakers - or all manufacturers of dairy products.

[High Threshold]

AnneBoleyn;1453466 wrote: Maybe I'll turn vegetabletarian.


And plunge innocent, non-offensive plants into a saucepan of boiling water or an oil-sizzling wok? How can you? At least animals are already dead before they are submitted to such barbaric rituals!

[Oscar Namechange]

Betty Boop;1453511 wrote: This quote is from the originally quoted article;

But he said that the debate should be "moved forward so that the animals are stunned" before being killed. And he said that the BVA would like a "collective meeting of minds [with religious groups] to review the science".



Top vet calls for reform of kosher and halal slaughter practices | World news | The Guardian



Yet also in the Guardian I came across this, so yes, religious slaughter should be allowed here because the majority of it IS actually meeting our standards for humane slaughter.

anner headlines about "ritually slaughtered meat" conceal the fact that, according to a 2012 Food Standards Agency report cited by the RSPCA, 97% of cattle, 96% of poultry and 90% of sheep slaughtered using the halal method in UK abattoirs are stunned before being killed – a procedure that makes them insensible to pain and distress.

That, of course, means that up to 10% of British halal meat may come from animals that have not been slaughtered in a way animal welfare experts consider humane: some stricter Muslims insist stunning is not halal, and some halal authentication bodies – of which there are five in the UK alone – deem it an offence against Qur'anic law and tradition. But the halal meat served by KFC, Nando's, Pizza Express and Subway is certified by bodies that do permit pre-stunning. These chains stress that their suppliers are "contractually obliged" to provide only pre-stunned meat, that all EU and UK legislation has been met, and, in the words of KFC, that "none of our welfare standards have been compromised".

Which restaurant chains have gone halal – and why? | Life and style The Guardian

So, Just 10% MAY not be stunned, where is the problem exactly?

More scaremongering IMO. It's not about the ' majority' of It meeting our standards.

It Is not about wether It Is 100%, 50 %, 10 % or 1 %.

Do you have any concept of the millions of animals slaughtered every year In this country that go Into the food chain ?

Even, 10 % equates to thousands of animals being slaughtered In conditions that breach our laws and regulations. It's about getting that 10 % If that figure Is accurate, to conform or shut down the slaughter houses.

Religious slaughter - Slaughter - Farm animals

Scaremongering... a word used as a cop out to excuse unacceptable behaviour.

What does It matter "

click on pic to enlarge

Attached files

[Betty Boop]

Oscar Mate;1453520 wrote: It's not about the ' majority' of It meeting our standards.

It Is not about wether It Is 100%, 50 %, 10 % or 1 %.

Do you have any concept of the millions of animals slaughtered every year In this country that go Into the food chain ?

Even, 10 % equates to thousands of animals being slaughtered In conditions that breach our laws and regulations. It's about getting that 10 % If that figure Is accurate, to conform or shut down the slaughter houses.

Religious slaughter - Slaughter - Farm animals

Scaremongering... a word used as a cop out to excuse unacceptable behaviour.


Your article claims 88% are killed alongside the use of stunning equipment, mine claims a higher percentage, so guess what, the message is getting out and things are improving. Just in case you've missed my reasoning for that improvement, your article states figures from 2011, mine states figures from 2012. So therefore there is an improvement over the course of a year. Maybe by now percentages are closer to 100%.

British English: scaremongering If one person or group accuses another person or group of scaremongering, they accuse them of deliberately spreading worrying stories to try and frighten people.

Collins English Dictionary | Always Free Online

[Oscar Namechange]

Betty Boop;1453522 wrote: Your article claims 88% are killed alongside the use of stunning equipment, mine claims a higher percentage, so guess what, the message is getting out and things are improving. Just in case you've missed my reasoning for that improvement, your article states figures from 2011, mine states figures from 2012. So therefore there is an improvement over the course of a year. Maybe by now percentages are closer to 100%.

British English: scaremongering If one person or group accuses another person or group of scaremongering, they accuse them of deliberately spreading worrying stories to try and frighten people.

Collins English Dictionary | Always Free Online


Frighten who and why ? How Is alerting the public to the fact that thousands of animals are suffering without pre-stunning ' frightening'.

It's fact. The RSPCA have carried out extensive research for years.

[Bruv]

How do we know the picture is in a Halal slaughterhouse, how do you tell the difference?

[Oscar Namechange]

Bruv;1453525 wrote: How do we know the picture is in a Halal slaughterhouse, how do you tell the difference? I could link numerous video clips of the real thing. That way you can hear the animals screams also but for me, It's too offensive.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... first.html

What does It matter ? It's only 10 %

So by that reckoning, we now stop calling for lambs that are being skinned alive to make Ugg Boots to be outlawed. Or we stop calling for the fences to be made safer In the Grand National because only 2 horses die every year on average. We stop calling for burning rabbits alive with cosmetic testing to be banned.

We stop whining that horse meat has turned up In our beef lasagne without being clearly advertised.



It's simple... If we have laws then I do not believe religion Is enough to exempt any group for breaking those laws. If the laws were not needed, they would not be here In the beginning.

Much of the Issue with Halal meat exactly the same as with the horse meat scandal, Is that It Is not clearly labelled by many supermarket giants. If people are eating It Unwittingly, their Ignorance Is creating a greater demand. The higher the demand, the more animals go unstunned.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05 ... _hp_ref=uk

[Bruv]

You do go over the top Oscar don't you?

Slaughterhouses are for slaughtering creatures that are bled before butchering, the image shown could have been either type of slaughterhouse......throat slashing and carcass twitching and floods of blood are common in both.

A UK Non Halal slaughterhouse Graphic content.........you decide if you want to see it.

My point being?

Due care ought to be taken when slaughtering, having a Certificate doesn't guarantee good practice in Certified or Halal slaughterhouses.

[Oscar Namechange]

Bruv;1453533 wrote: You do go over the top Oscar don't you?. When faced with... ' only 10 % what does It matter '.... yes

[Accountable]

High Threshold;1453519 wrote: And plunge innocent, non-offensive plants into a saucepan of boiling water or an oil-sizzling wok? How can you? At least animals are already dead before they are submitted to such barbaric rituals!
*Ahem*

Lobster

[High Threshold]

Accountable;1453563 wrote: *Ahem*

Lobster


Oooooo! I love lobster! You made your point and now I feel ill ............

[AnneBoleyn]

High Threshold;1453565 wrote: Oooooo! I love lobster! You made your point and now I feel ill ............


That's not the only way. Last night on Chef Ramsey's Hell's Kitchen a woman thrust a knife into the middle of the lobster's head. She did apologize to the lobster, however.

[Bruv]

Too many years ago to remember the method of despatching a lobster was always a sharp pointed knife through the head before throwing it into hot water.

Blue trout were stunned by holding in a dry cloth (otherwise they slip through your fingers) and wacking them against a table top before a very hot bath.....with carrots and stuff.

[Oscar Namechange]

AnneBoleyn;1453580 wrote: That's not the only way. Last night on Chef Ramsey's Hell's Kitchen a woman thrust a knife into the middle of the lobster's head. She did apologize to the lobster, however.


The correct procedure for Lobster these days Is to put them In the freezer for a short period of time to render then unconscious.

[High Threshold]

AnneBoleyn;1453580 wrote: That's not the only way. Last night on Chef Ramsey's Hell's Kitchen a woman thrust a knife into the middle of the lobster's head. She did apologize to the lobster, however.


Only "sorry"? No kadish?

[Oscar Namechange]

Bruv;1453584 wrote:

Blue trout were stunned by holding in a dry cloth (otherwise they slip through your fingers) and wacking them against a table top before a very hot bath.....with carrots and stuff.
Meanwhile, my petition gathers pace.

Ban Halal Slaughter houses In the UK and sale of Halal Meat - e-petitions

[High Threshold]

Oscar Mate;1453585 wrote: The correct procedure for Lobster these days Is to put them In the freezer for a short period of time to render then unconscious.


So tell me, how much of window is calculated between "unconsciousness" and "freezing to death"?

[High Threshold]

Bruv;1453584 wrote:

Blue trout were stunned by holding in a dry cloth (otherwise they slip through your fingers) and wacking them against a table top before a very hot bath.....with carrots and stuff.


And a rabbit was given a short, sharp karate chop to the back of the neck ... presumably where the term "rabbit punch" comes from?

[Oscar Namechange]

High Threshold;1453588 wrote: So tell me, how much of window is calculated between "unconsciousness" and "freezing to death"?


A few minutes.



How to Kill a Lobster (Humanely) Fine Cooking | The Kitchn

[High Threshold]

Oscar Mate;1453587 wrote: Meanwhile, my petition gathers pace.

Ban Halal Slaughter houses In the UK and sale of Halal Meat - e-petitions


I don't want to draw any conclusions here but I believe in repairing the roof rather than placing saucepans about the floor.

[Oscar Namechange]

High Threshold;1453591 wrote: I don't want to draw any conclusions here but I believe in repairing the roof rather than placing saucepans about the floor. E petitions are a good way of drawing attention to your cause. Very often, your local MP will bring It up for you should you get enough signatures. My local Member of Parliament Is already Involved with me.

I however, see your point but then the people who whine about Issue's and do nothing to change them are the people who hack me off the worst.

[High Threshold]

Oscar Mate;1453592 wrote: E petitions are a good way of drawing attention to your cause. Very often, your local MP will bring It up for you should you get enough signatures. My local Member of Parliament Is already Involved with me.

I however, see your point but then the people who whine about Issue's and do nothing to change them are the people who hack me off the worst.


I agree, but perhaps I was being too cryptic. I was trying to say that if you don't like the rules, don't play the game, or ..... stay home. Or maybe I was trying to say, "Members only". Don't make me be more specific than that, please.

[AnneBoleyn]

High Threshold;1453586 wrote: Only "sorry"? No kadish?


Shellfish (crustaceans) can't be Jewish, silly! & I don't think the chef was either!

[AnneBoleyn]

oscar, your petition is quite offensive---"The animal Is blessed In the name of Allah as It dies and we are a Christian country."

Nationalistic, divisive & downright racist. Animal cruelty takes second place here to the main topic.

[High Threshold]

AnneBoleyn;1453594 wrote: Shellfish (crustaceans) can't be Jewish, silly!


How stupid of me. But you never know, it might have befriended a few Gefilte fish and have been bestowed the title of Righteous Gentile? :wah:

[AnneBoleyn]

High Threshold;1453596 wrote: How stupid of me. But you never know, it might have befriended a few Gefilte fish and have been bestowed the title of Righteous Gentile? :wah:


That's right. I'll never know.

[Oscar Namechange]

AnneBoleyn;1453595 wrote: oscar, your petition is quite offensive---"The animal Is blessed In the name of Allah as It dies and we are a Christian country."

Nationalistic, divisive & downright racist. Animal cruelty takes second place here to the main topic.


Many Muslims are Intolerant of other religions. Why should religion be brought Into the food chain process? Why should any dedicated Christian have an animal blessed In the name of any other religion?

Why Is OK to whine about any other Muslim practice we have Inherited due to Immigration such as Honour Killings, Grooming gangs, Sharia Law, First Cousin Marraiges, etc but we can't complain about other Muslim practices such as blessing meat In the name of Allah.

Any E Petition when submitted has to be approved by a Government official before It's granted. It takes up to 2 weeks to be viewed, discussed and approved before It goes live. Any hint of racism and It would not have been approved.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/terms-and-conditions

Matters relating to honours or appointments

Nominations for honours. Find out how to submit nominations for honours at: www.direct.gov.uk/honours This link opens in a new window

E-petitions that do not follow these guidelines cannot be accepted. In these cases, you will be informed by email of the reason(s) your e-petition has been refused.

We will publish the full text of rejected e-petitions, unless the content is illegal or offensive.



It is not possible to alter a rejected e-petition, and no correspondence will be entered into regarding rejected e-petitions. Rejection of an e-petition does not stop you from submitting a new e-petition which meets the terms and conditions of the site.

BBC News - David Cameron says the UK is a Christian country

[Betty Boop]

AnneBoleyn;1453595 wrote: oscar, your petition is quite offensive---"The animal Is blessed In the name of Allah as It dies and we are a Christian country."

Nationalistic, divisive & downright racist. Animal cruelty takes second place here to the main topic.


Totally agree, its aggressive and it's totally against a particular religion with Julie Lake hiding behind some stupid arsed reason of halal meat being a cruel method when in actual fact Julie has a problem with the religious words that are said within the walls of the slaughter house and nothing else :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Oscar Namechange]

Betty Boop;1453599 wrote: Totally agree, its aggressive and it's totally against a particular religion with Julie Lake hiding behind some stupid arsed reason of halal meat being a cruel method when in actual fact Julie has a problem with the religious words that are said within the walls of the slaughter house and nothing else :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


So you reckon If I went to Pakistan and slaughtered meat In the name of Jesus Christ and sold It wholesale without labelling It, no-one would object ?

Even In Britain do you think If British slaughterhouses blesses the animal In the name of Christ our saviour, no Muslim would object ?

UK: Lunch Lady Fired from Multi-faith School for Accidentally Serving Non-halal meat | Pamela Geller, Atlas Shrugs

Row over Halal meat at school (From East London and West Essex Guardian Series)

Yeah right !!!!

"Therefore eat of that on which Allah's name has been mentioned if you are believers in His communications."

— Qurʼan, Surah 6 (al-Anʻam), ayah