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Since I posted my thread yesterday “The Two Fiends Have Been Sentenced At Last,” I’ve been doing some thinking. Like what maybe transpired before they committed their barbaric act.

Surely there must have been some discussion between them at some stage during which one of them must have come up with the suggestion to go out onto the streets of London and commit a horrific murder.

Of course this pre-supposes that the plan was theirs in the first place. So I began to wonder if they really are simply two British born earthlings allegedly raised among a gang culture who decided one day to convert to Islam. Two British citizens who one day decided to hatch a plan to gruesomely butcher a fellow Englishman.

And this of course begs the question; why did they only feel the urge to kill after their conversion? Or did another fiend or fiends also allied to the Muslim cause plant the seed within their warped minds at an earlier stage?

After his arrest the older of the two spoke of how they chose the target for their despicable deed. According to him Lee Rigby was a legitimate target simply because by enlisting in the military he had placed himself in a position of danger so to speak.

Of course this is the same type of Bin Ladenspeak that has spewed from the mouths of Islamic militants since 9/11.

Leaving aside for a change the old hoary hobbyhorse about Iraq & Afghanistan and the so called American & British invasion and occupation, does anyone have an inkling of why Britain has seemingly become a haven for Islamic militants?

I have my own answer to this … but what do you think?

There was no gang before the killing. As I understand It, both were decent youngsters who were Christians... Until they converted to Islam.

Due to that, I feel there Is no other explanation than that they were radicalised while In prison for petty crime.

Soldier killers' extremist links - ITV News

It Is why the Far Right call for religious segregated prisons and hate preachers such as Anjem Choudrey to be deported.

oscar;1449080 wrote: There was no gang before the killing. As I understand It, both were decent youngsters who were Christians... Until they converted to Islam.

Due to that, I feel there Is no other explanation than that they were radicalised while In prison for petty crime.

Soldier killers' extremist links - ITV News

It Is why the Far Right call for religious segregated prisons and hate preachers such as Anjem Choudrey to be deported.


Then I'm afraid you are misinformed because it was stated in court that they both belonged to gangs in their youth.

jones jones;1449082 wrote: Then I'm afraid you are misinformed because it was stated in court that they both belonged to gangs in their youth. Then I missed that... I beg your pardon.

oscar;1449084 wrote: Then I missed that... I beg your pardon.




Granted.

jones jones;1449085 wrote: Granted. Regardless, gang culture Is a real Issue here and black gang culture In London. However, whilst most can be quite unsavoury crime wise, the amount committing atrocities such as this Is extremely rare. So not all young black gang members go on to commit murder In the name of Islam.

For that, the connection to hate preacher Anjem Choudry Is a key element.

oscar;1449087 wrote: Regardless, gang culture Is a real Issue here and black gang culture In London. However, whilst most can be quite unsavoury crime wise, the amount committing atrocities such as this Is extremely rare. So not all young black gang members go on to commit murder In the name of Islam.

For that, the connection to hate preacher Anjem Choudry Is a key element.


I have no doubt that it has nothing at all to with young blacks per se ... Islamic extremists radicalize without regard to colour or creed. All that is required is a hatred for infidels.

jones jones;1449074 wrote:

Leaving aside for a change the old hoary hobbyhorse about Iraq & Afghanistan and the so called American & British invasion and occupation, does anyone have an inkling of why Britain has seemingly become a haven for Islamic militants?




Leaving aside the hoary old hobbyhorse slaughter of millions of earthlings who have the misfortune to be practicing Muslims resident in their own countries in a world dominated by a self rightious armament rich oil poor Christians.......................

Think you are missing a few crucial points !!!!!!

Somethings that might get overlooked,viewed from the moral high ground

Operations Enduring Freedom casualties



As to why the UK has become a haven for Islamic Militants I refer you to 2 maps.

Muslim countries

British Empire

Doesn't take too much imagination to work that one out does it ?

I'll have a look at your links later Bruv.. bit pushed for time now...

But a quick Oscar rant coming.

You know what annoys me most about this whole saga?

Barracks now being told In some places not to wear their uniform.

Since when did this country bow down to murderers?

Oh yeah, when Cameron got Into No: 10.

oscar;1449150 wrote: I'll have a look at your links later Bruv.. bit pushed for time now...

But a quick Oscar rant coming.

You know what annoys me most about this whole saga?

Barracks now being told In some places not to wear their uniform.

Since when did this country bow down to murderers?

Oh yeah, when Cameron got Into No: 10.


Exactly Oscar ... Since when have the English military kow-towed to the Muslim extremists?

oscar;1449150 wrote: I'll have a look at your links later Bruv.. bit pushed for time now...

But a quick Oscar rant coming.

You know what annoys me most about this whole saga?

Barracks now being told In some places not to wear their uniform.

Since when did this country bow down to murderers?

Oh yeah, when Cameron got Into No: 10.


That's nothing new. It's not a recent innovation. I was in the Armed forces in the 70's and wearing the uniform downtown to the pub was a no-no. In fact I was refused service in a pub once because I wore a uniform. At the time I was pissed but looking back I can understand, given the situation in N.I. at the time, why people would be wary of having regulars in uniform. Think Birmingham, Woolwich etc.

It's not "kow-towing" to terrorists. Its something blown out of proportion. It's what certain newspapers are good at

Snowfire;1449167 wrote: That's nothing new. It's not a recent innovation. I was in the Armed forces in the 70's and wearing the uniform downtown to the pub was a no-no. In fact I was refused service in a pub once because I wore a uniform. At the time I was pissed but looking back I can understand, given the situation in N.I. at the time, why people would be wary of having regulars in uniform. Think Birmingham, Woolwich etc.

It's not "kow-towing" to terrorists. Its something blown out of proportion. It's what certain newspapers are good at There's two ways of looking at It.

One, governments and armed forces should stand by their foreign policy and not have a problem displaying uniform In public but two, minimise the risk to life.

What a silly inflammatory choice of words "Kow-towing"? by judiciously looking after soldiers welfare when out of the safety of their barracks ?

oscar;1449169 wrote: There's two ways of looking at It.

One, governments and armed forces should stand by their foreign policy and not have a problem displaying uniform In public but two, minimise the risk to life.


Well our governments certainly. The armed forces are there to carry out the dirty work, should it arise. If it minimises risk to soldiers and the publics lives then I wouldn't disagree with the not wearing of uniform in public, as proud as I was to wear mine

Bruv;1449171 wrote: What a silly inflammatory choice of words "Kow-towing"? by judiciously looking after soldiers welfare when out of the safety of their barracks ?


When we change our lives through fear of terrorism, then the terrorists have won the war.

oscar;1449174 wrote: When we change our lives through fear of terrorism, then the terrorists have won the war.


Well lets take the arms off the police, put all the rubbish bins back on the railway stations.......it was you that started being silly not me.

oscar;1449174 wrote: When we change our lives through fear of terrorism, then the terrorists have won the war.


I would agree with that in general terms but I'm not sure this is it. As I said, this is nothing new. We will carry on with our lives as usual despite the odd tabloid - often not a Daily Mail - headline.

Remember Christmas was never banned as some would like us to believe. The real truth doesnt make good headlines and thats what seems to sell papers. Better to make it up or embellish it with a "source"

oscar;1449087 wrote: Regardless, gang culture Is a real Issue here and black gang culture In London. However, whilst most can be quite unsavoury crime wise, the amount committing atrocities such as this Is extremely rare. So not all young black gang members go on to commit murder In the name of Islam.

For that, the connection to hate preacher Anjem Choudry Is a key element.


I think you'll find that most young black gang members in London are Christian

Bryn Mawr;1449347 wrote: I think you'll find that most young black gang members in London are Christian


Yes they are Bryn exactly as Lee Rigby's killers were Christian until they went Into prison.

I would Imagine however, that despite killings In black gangs, the atrocity carried out on Lee Rigby is extremely rare.

oscar;1449348 wrote: Yes they are Bryn exactly as Lee Rigby's killers were Christian until they went Into prison.

I would Imagine however, that despite killings In black gangs, the atrocity carried out on Lee Rigby is extremely rare.


Your previous post :-



Regardless, gang culture Is a real Issue here and black gang culture In London. However, whilst most can be quite unsavoury crime wise, the amount committing atrocities such as this Is extremely rare. So not all young black gang members go on to commit murder In the name of Islam.

For that, the connection to hate preacher Anjem Choudry Is a key element.




suggests that you think young black gang members in general are Muslim

Black gang members in London or in any other major city on the planet are in fact very unlikely to be of the Islamic faith.

My take on this and the only reason why I mentioned the gang culture in the first place was simply because these are the people who could easily become a target for radical Islamist. By target I mean that they might more easily be persuaded to renounce whatever faith if any they had in favour of Islam and eventually end up committing such a horrendous crime.

Bryn Mawr;1449356 wrote: Your previous post :-



suggests that you think young black gang members in general are Muslim My post may have been badly worded In hindsight, but no, I don't think black gang members are Muslims. I don't class Muslim ie Asian as black as In black African or Afro- Carribean descent..

Black gangs In London In the main tend to be Black African or Afro- Caribbean descent. Having said that, there are also Asian Muslim Street gangs In major cities.

Disproportionality of Black African and Black Caribbean Youth Victims of Serious Violence (murder and GBH) in London | Citizens Report UK

The point I was trying to make badly In my post was that,however unsavoury Black gang crime Is, they are not carrying out atrocities In the name of Islam until such time they may be radicalised whilst In prison.