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As an atheist I so enjoy it when stuff like this comes along!

It’s not always easy to practice what you preach and Power Construction chairperson Graham Power may be a classic example. According to the Competition Commission, Power Construction is one of three firms yet to settle for alleged violations of the Competition Act.

A source suggested the reason was because Graham Power was concerned about the reputational damage that will be caused to him and the Christian business organization he has founded, Unashamedly Ethical, if he admits guilt and pays a fine.

Power is also the chairperson of the movement where businesses and individuals sign up to a code of conduct that governs how to conduct their business.

On Unashamedly Ethical’s website Graham Power states the organization has 15 600 individual members and 3 500 companies have signed up.

The code of conduct reads as follows: “Members shall be honest and ethical in all their business dealings, including but not limited to:

» That members refuse to elicit, accept or pay any bribes, and to report those who do;

» That members negotiate and award all contracts with integrity;

» That members take no part in price fixing, collusion, fronting or misrepresentation of their business credentials and/or contributions to transformation;

» That members pay their taxes;

» That members pay reasonable salaries and wages, and pay them on time; and

» That members treat employees with dignity.

The code clearly prescribes the behavior to which most of the other alleged cartel members have admitted guilt.

According to a note on Unashamedly Ethical’s website, written by Power, he says: “God gave the vision for Unashamedly Ethical through a clear early morning dream in October 2006.

“It took a few years for us to develop the infrastructure and identity of this movement before we finally launched it to the public in May 2010.

“Unashamedly Ethical has the task of helping people to ‘turn from their wicked ways’,” Power continues in the note:

“We trust that as we see more and more people taking the stand for ethics, values and clean living, we will see God ‘hearing from heaven, forgiving our sin and healing our land’.” Power signs the note: “Yours in Christ.”

Graham Power and Power Construction failed to respond to requests from City Press for comment.

Source: News24/City Press.

South Africa.

Christianity is a tough game. The people who ask to be viewed as ethical merely because they're christian are the worst of the bunch too - they do, after all, claim to know someone who doesn't exist. Deception and lying doesn't get any more transparent than that.

Ahso!;1431640 wrote: Christianity is a tough game. The people who ask to be viewed as ethical merely because they're christian are the worst of the bunch too - they do, after all, claim to know someone who doesn't exist. Deception and lying doesn't get any more transparent than that.


You said it in spades!

easy to have no morals/ethics to preach or practice and throw stones

I find most honest people act in good faith and tend to assume everybody else does until proven otherwise. Dishonest people tend to assume everybody else is dishonest because they themselves would be given the opportunity and would overcharge, rip off etc etc when the opportunity arises. Some Christians need the threat of eternal damnation to make them moral imo that's why they tend to assume everyone who is not a believer is immoral because they cannot conceive someone would choose to be simply because it is usually the best option. Christians depend on others to tell them what is wrong and right hardly surprising their gullibility is taken advantage of by dishonest con men.

gmc;1431687 wrote: Christians depend on others to tell them what is wrong and right hardly surprising their gullibility is taken advantage of by dishonest con men.


I don't believe people are born with a sense of right or wrong. If we were, what would it be?

Call me cynical ... well when it comes to Christians I am way past that ... but when an earthling holds up a bible, I immediately figure they hiding behind it.

jones jones;1431713 wrote: Call me cynical ... well when it comes to Christians I am way past that ... but when an earthling holds up a bible, I immediately figure they hiding behind it.


My son's childhood was spent in a Xian community. Since kids are nosy & probing I told my son that when someone would ask what he "was" to say "Human Being, Planet Earth". Thought you might like this description JJ.

AnneBoleyn;1431755 wrote: My son's childhood was spent in a Xian community. Since kids are nosy & probing I told my son that when someone would ask what he "was" to say "Human Being, Planet Earth". Thought you might like this description JJ.


A ... I have been criticized here on FG for using the word "earthling" instead of the more commonplace noun "human." I do it for no other reason than this:

Everyone who lives on this planet IS an earthling ... but not all who reside here are human.

jones jones;1431797 wrote: A ... I have been criticized here on FG for using the word "earthling" instead of the more commonplace noun "human." I do it for no other reason than this:

Everyone who lives on this planet IS an earthling ...


I am not convinced of that.

tude dog;1431673 wrote: easy to have no morals/ethics to preach or practice and throw stonesAnyone care to explain this post? I know the author won't because he most likely can't.

Any takers?

tude dog;1431673 wrote: easy to have no morals/ethics to preach or practice and throw stones


You can't be talking about JJ. He is very highly principaled with a lofty ethical standard. A prince among men. :-4

AnneBoleyn;1431808 wrote: You can't be talking about JJ. He is very highly principaled with a lofty ethical standard. A prince among men. :-4You're saying it might be a passive/aggressive insult?

Ahso!;1431816 wrote: You're saying it might be a passive/aggressive insult?


Those are awfully big words Ahso!. Hmmmmm, don't think so.

Ahso!;1431801 wrote: Anyone care to explain this post? I know the author won't because he most likely can't.

Any takers?


Sergeant Ahso ... I The Chosen as you well know, am the author of this post. Would YOU kindly explain firstly ... why you think I am unable to explain this post and ...

secondly what it is you fail to grasp/understand?

jones jones;1431865 wrote: Sergeant Ahso ... I am the author of this post. Would YOU kindly explain firstly ... why you think I am unable to explain this post and ...

secondly what it is you fail to grasp/understand?No you're not.

Okay ...

tude dog;1431706 wrote: I don't believe people are born with a sense of right or wrong. If we were, what would it be?


I know how I want to be treated. So I apply that to others. Behaving otherwise is wrong, IMO.

I think a lot of common sense behavior items have been picked up by religions over the years.

oops sorry double post

I think people are born with a sense of what is right and wrong. I see many instances in the animal world of choosing deliberately to be 'kind' to another animal.

For instance, I had a horse many years ago, just your average nice horse, whom I watched standing very still in the pasture one morning. Anyone who knows animals can tell you they know by looking when something is wrong with them.

I went out and looked him over - he reacted perfectly normally to me, didn't seem to be in pain, nothing amiss. I pushed his shoulder to get him to move, and he would not. I pushed harder and he just stood there swaying, not moving. I looked down to see if there was something wrong with his feet and saw a tiny kitten directly underneath his belly in the long grass, if he had moved he would have possibly stepped on it.

Picked the kitten up and he moved off and started grazing happily.

On the other hand, I had a cat who was a monster from the time he was born, to other cats, but adored me.

I do think there is an inherent gene makeup that predisposes us one way or another, to selfishness or selflessness. Of course influenced by our environment and so many other factors.

How do you explain the decision not to step on the kitten by a horse with no religious affiliation that I know of?

Well I guess your average horse wouldn't know the difference between a foal and a kitten, except that they'd maybe smell different.

Try putting that kitten under the belly of a carnivore and you might get a completely different reaction!

jones jones;1443487 wrote: Well I guess your average horse wouldn't know the difference between a foal and a kitten, except that they'd maybe smell different.

Try putting that kitten under the belly of a carnivore and you might get a completely different reaction!


There are many recorded instances of carnivores choosing not to kill when they aren't hungry, and no, I'm not talking about cats whose pregnancy hormones make them 'instinctively' suckle a squirrel baby. There are as many varied personalities among animals as there are among humans, as I mentioned previously, and all species have killers and kind hearts among them. As well as smart ones and dumbasses.

My experience with animals of many kinds has made me realise that they are quite sentient and do make conscious and thoughtful choices, even if you and I do not always agree with, or understand, the choice.

When I was much younger I hunted and killed animals when I needed to eat (not in the West, but in the deserts of North Africa), and I suppose Iwould do so again if I had to, but I will never hunt for sport. Just so you know I'm not a Bambi syndrome type .

Its also been my experience that many religious people (not all of course) do not like the idea of animals having brains or free will. I have always wondered why.

zenda7;1443509 wrote: There are many recorded instances of carnivores choosing not to kill when they aren't hungry, and no, I'm not talking about cats whose pregnancy hormones make them 'instinctively' suckle a squirrel baby. There are as many varied personalities among animals as there are among humans, as I mentioned previously, and all species have killers and kind hearts among them. As well as smart ones and dumbasses.

My experience with animals of many kinds has made me realise that they are quite sentient and do make conscious and thoughtful choices, even if you and I do not always agree with, or understand, the choice.

When I was much younger I hunted and killed animals when I needed to eat (not in the West, but in the deserts of North Africa), and I would do so again if I had to, but I will never hunt for sport. Just so you know I'm not a Bambi syndrome type .


Of course there are exceptions to every rule. I recently watched a program on Natgeo about a lioness that that befriended a young antelope.

However I must question your statement that animals make conscious and thoughtful choices.

It is my experience that most animals only recognise hunger, thirst & pain. When they are in an estrous cycle they copulate. They fiercely protect their young while they are suckling them.

Other than the above any other feelings such as compassion is mere speculation.

jones jones;1443511 wrote: Of course there are exceptions to every rule. I recently watched a program on Natgeo about a lioness that that befriended a young antelope.

However I must question your statement that animals make conscious and thoughtful choices.

It is my experience that most animals only recognise hunger, thirst & pain. When they are in an estrous cycle they copulate. They fiercely protect their young while they are suckling them.

Other than the above any other feelings such as compassion is mere speculation.


I can't agree. I'm sure there is a lot of scientific consensus for the idea of conscious thought within the animal community. Primates have been shown to feel emotion, empathy etc.

The sooner we as ...ahem...earthlings.. get used to that, the sooner we may get to treat them a lot better

Snowfire;1443512 wrote: I can't agree. I'm sure there is a lot of scientific consensus for the idea of conscious thought within the animal community. Primates have been shown to feel emotion, empathy etc.

The sooner we as ...ahem...earthlings.. get used to that, the sooner we may get to treat them a lot better


I believe that this is mere speculation and has not been thoroughly researched or proven ... we often "find" what we are searching for ....

jones jones;1443513 wrote: I believe that this is mere speculation and has not been thoroughly researched or proven ... we often "find" what we are searching for ....


From http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ani ... ous-beings

"Science leaders have reached a critical consensus: Humans are not the only conscious beings; other animals, specifically mammals and birds, are indeed conscious, too." At this gathering, called The Francis Crick Memorial Conference, a number of scientists presented evidence that led to this self-obvious conclusion. It's difficult to believe that those who have shared their homes with companion animals didn't already know this. And, of course, many renowned and award-winning field researchers had reached the same conclusion years ago


Prominent scientists sign declaration that animals have conscious awareness, just like us............... concerning The Cambridge Declaration of Consciousness

It seems there is ever increasing evidence for it

Snowfire;1443514 wrote: From http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ani ... ous-beings



Prominent scientists sign declaration that animals have conscious awareness, just like us............... concerning The Cambridge Declaration of Consciousness

It seems there is ever increasing evidence for it


You have encountered the Chosen in a very rare mood ...

I am in "debate mode."

However dinner guests are arriving so I will have to opt out until tomorrow ... unless they leave at a reasonable hour.

Until then ...