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This poor man now has to live with himself for the rest of his life and has forced the rest of this boy's family to have to do the same. Pity!

State police say Mr. Loughrey, 44, of Sharpsville was getting back inside his pickup truck when the 9 mm handgun went off, the bullet flying through Craig's chest as he sat in a booster seat on the passenger side. He died instantly.

Read more: Mercer boy, 7, dies after father's gun goes off - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The "poor man" is an idiot.

I agree with the idea of gun control. Idiots should never be allowed to own guns.

(or to have children, for that matter)

LarsMac;1414868 wrote: The "poor man" is an idiot.

I agree with the idea of gun control. Idiots should never be allowed to own guns.

(or to have children, for that matter)The problem is, of course, that more often than not, it's not known who an idiot is until they make idiotic mistakes. For all we know, this could have been this person's first, or, large enough one to qualify.

Besides, we're all idiots at times.

It was an accident and the parents will live with the ' what If's ' for the rest of their days but then so do thousands of other people who are responsible for stupidity that leads to a child death.

Of course the anti-gun lobby jumps on this kind of accident but omits the stats of how many parents have guns and don't have accidents.

In this case, the gun was the cause of death but parental stupidity has also seen deaths of children climbing Into washing machines, falling out of cars, running Into traffic, falling out of prams, etc etc etc...

oscar;1414873 wrote: It was an accident and the parents will live with the ' what If's ' for the rest of their days but then so do thousands of other people who are responsible for stupidity that leads to a child death.

Of course the anti-gun lobby jumps on this kind of accident but omits the stats of how many parents have guns and don't have accidents.

In this case, the gun was the cause of death but parental stupidity has also seen deaths of children climbing Into washing machines, falling out of cars, running Into traffic, falling out of prams, etc etc etc...


No, the cause of death was careless handling of a firearm. This is similar to careless driving.

If the guy drives with as much attention as he used handling the gun, he should have his driver's license revoked.

The man should be in jail.

LarsMac;1414882 wrote: No, the cause of death was careless handling of a firearm. This is similar to careless driving.

If the guy drives with as much attention as he used handling the gun, he should have his driver's license revoked.

The man should be in jail. I don't think he should be in Jail. You can't Imprison folk for stupidity. He did not Intend to kill his child and his guilt will burden him for life.

oscar;1414887 wrote: I don't think he should be in Jail. You can't Imprison folk for stupidity. He did not Intend to kill his child and his guilt will burden him for life.


And, how do you know that?

oscar;1414887 wrote: I don't think he should be in Jail. You can't Imprison folk for stupidity. He did not Intend to kill his child and his guilt will burden him for life.


There is no law against stupidity, but there are for manslaughter. This goes beyond stupid. It was his responsibility to secure the firearm and insure safety of his son.

He violated several rules of safe gun handling. Guns just don't go off sending bullets off to who knows where.

Here's a perfect example where guns create criminals and gun enthusiasts are simply happy to throw people in jail for stupidity so they can keep their guns. Altruistic, they are not.

LarsMac;1414891 wrote: And, how do you know that?


Taken from the article:





State police say Mr. Loughrey, 44, of Sharpsville was getting back inside his pickup truck when the 9 mm handgun went off, the bullet flying through Craig's chest as he sat in a booster seat on the passenger side.

Don't you think the police would have at least checked the bullet projectile by now ?

Question

was this gun in a holster ? - in the guy's hand as he entered the truck ?

Patsy

Why would he have the guns loaded when the guy was trying to sell them?

The guy (father) may not be charged - declared a accident - but this was clear negligence.

Another gun issue - horrible scenario.

Patsy

Ahso!;1414895 wrote: Here's a perfect example where guns create criminals and gun enthusiasts are simply happy to throw people in jail for stupidity so they can keep their guns. Altruistic, they are not.


Read more carefully and tell me where I said that I wanted him to go to jail. I did point out his gross irresponsibility which could land him in jail. nothing more.

Does it reflect badly on responsible gun owners?

No.

What it shows is the eagerness of some who hate guns to "never let a tragedy go to waste".

At least this time the body was cold by the time you dug it up again.

To me this is old news, read it first on

The Truth About Guns

I like that site, as for the most part it is mature and has zero problem with pointing out gun owner problems.

Read more carefully and tell me where I said that I wanted him to go to jail. I did point out his gross irresponsibility which could land him in jail. nothing more.The first thing you're ready to do is put the father up for manslaughter charges. The only people who don't permit gun related tragedy go to waste are gun enthusiasts.

tude dog;1414911 wrote: Does it reflect badly on responsible gun owners?

No.Nobody said it does.

tude dog;1414911 wrote: What it shows is the eagerness of some who hate guns to "never let a tragedy go to waste".You guys and your guilt-tripping. So what? people such as myself are not allowed to comment on these situations and express our outrage? Get real!

tude dog;1414911 wrote: At least this time the body was cold by the time you dug it up again.Self-righteous! Do you gun-righteous people practice saying this sort of BS in the mirror to become easy with it?

tude dog;1414911 wrote: To me this is old newsMy guess is you just read about it today because I brought it up. Why not share stuff like this with us and get in front of it if you knew?

tude dog;1414911 wrote: I like that site, as for the most part it is mature and has zero problem with pointing out gun owner problems.That's not your style though and why I think you just found that site today.

Hang On, Tude has a good point here.

This Incident happened on 9 th of December so why post this 3 weeks after the event?

Ahso!;1414915 wrote: The first thing you're ready to do is put the father up for manslaughter charges.


Really? Where did you get that from?

Ahso!;1414915 wrote: The only people who don't permit gun related tragedy go to waste are gun enthusiasts.


Give me an example.

Ahso!;1414915 wrote: Nobody said it does.[/url]

BS, If not the current spasm of suggested gun laws would not apply to everybody.

[QUOTE=Ahso!;1414915]You guys and your guilt-tripping.


No guilt here.

Ahso!;1414915 wrote: So what? people such as myself are not allowed to comment on these situations and express our outrage?


Nobody said different.

Ahso!;1414915 wrote: Self-righteous! Do you gun-righteous people practice saying this sort of BS in the mirror to become easy with it?

My guess is you just read about it today because I brought it up. Why not share stuff like this with us and get in front of it if you knew?


Before I shared that link which I like very much I wondered what comment you might have to say about it.

Ahso!;1414915 wrote: That's not your style though and why I think you just found that site today.


I didn't expect to be called a liar.

I have nothing more to say.

Ahso!;1414895 wrote: Here's a perfect example where guns create criminals and gun enthusiasts are simply happy to throw people in jail for stupidity so they can keep their guns. Altruistic, they are not.


I'm sorry, but if you are driving your car, being stupid, and cause the death of someone, would you not expect to be charged with violating applicable laws?

If the guy had handled the gun properly, the boy would not be dead. End of story.

Guns don't "just go off" without being mishandled.

oscar;1414917 wrote: Hang On, Tude has a good point here.

This Incident happened on 9 th of December so why post this 3 weeks after the event?


Because AHSO! wanted to make a point?

LarsMac;1414924 wrote: Because AHSO! wanted to make a point?AHSO! only read about this today. Okay?

tude dog;1414922 wrote: Before I shared that link which I like very much I wondered what comment you might have to say about it.That's odd. Most people couldn't care less what others thinks of posted links. And three weeks ago you and I hadn't had these discussions. Your timing is suspect.

tude dog;1414922 wrote: I didn't expect to be called a liar.

I have nothing more to say.I'd say that that's convenient but I don't care enough to.

I realize some of you are claiming that guns are the perfect mahine that never malfunction, but I learned a long time ago that such a machine does not exist. State police Lt. Eric Hermick said Sunday the father had secured a rifle in the back of the truck and placed his pistol on the console when the handgun went off. Hermick said police are reviewing surveillance video from the store, which helped lay out the chain of events; the video is not being released.

"It is very clear-cut exactly what transpired here," Hermick said of what he called clearly an accident. "As he's laying it down, it discharges." Craig Allen Loughrey, Boy, Shot At Gun Store Was Buckling Himself In When Father's Weapon Fired

Ahso!;1414929 wrote: I realize some of you are claiming that guns are the perfect mahine that never malfunction, but I learned a long time ago that such a machine does not exist. Craig Allen Loughrey, Boy, Shot At Gun Store Was Buckling Himself In When Father's Weapon Fired


A gun/rifle will only discharge if there is a round in the breach. Normal good practice is to clear the weapon by removing the magazine, cocking it several times to ensure there are no rounds in the breach, replacing the magazine and applying the safety catch. That is clearly not what happened here. Weapons need to be "made safe" when they are not in use.

My knowledge of US gun culture is plainly non existant. Are you suggesting it is acceptable to carry a gun loaded and cocked ?

The point has been made that pressure had to be applied to the trigger. The best information I can find is that video surveillance apparently shows the gun being placed on the truck console and discharging.

The father obviously did not clear the chamber and that is a tragedy, but it also appears the thing malfunctioned.

Guns do not belong in the general public where they are in the hands of so many. The more people who own these things the higher the rate of accidental as well as intentional killings by them. As a society, we live with the expectation of accidents and even intentional misuse of items that cause death. However, those items are intended to serve a different purpose which usually adds to our quality of life. The argument that guns serve a purpose of security is nullified by the fact that the majority of homicides due to crime are accomplished using the same product.

Snowfire;1414930 wrote: A gun/rifle will only discharge if there is a round in the breach. Normal good practice is to clear the weapon by removing the magazine, cocking it several times to ensure there are no rounds in the breach, replacing the magazine and applying the safety catch. That is clearly not what happened here. Weapons need to be "made safe" when they are not in use.

My knowledge of US gun culture is plainly non existant. Are you suggesting it is acceptable to carry a gun loaded and cocked ?To my knowledge, it appears so with certain permits.

Ahso!;1414932 wrote:

The father obviously did not clear the chamber and that is a tragedy, but it also appears the thing malfunctioned.






Thats my whole point. A weapon can malfunction anytime but if it isnt cocked and ready to fire, there are no consequences. The father was astonishingly irresponsible it not making it safe, malfunction or not.

Touching the trigger is often not required to make the weapon discharge. A jolt is sometimes enough, that is why clearing it is so important and necessary

I've been on this Forum, on and off, since early 2005 and there have been countless threads about gun control and if there is one thing I have learned is how much the subject polarises everyone. Not just the US and non-US contingent, because God knows we don't understand the obsession with guns - least of all assault weapons - but also those in the US on both sides of the fence. There always seems little middle ground between the two and the insecurity about tweaking certain Amendments lest civil war ensues.

Ive never thought that a weapon of any sorts should be part our life, even for our average police officer. I've never met anyone who thought it remotely necessary. The whole thing is a mystery to us

I just don't know what the answer is.

Snowfire;1414934 wrote: Thats my whole point. A weapon can malfunction anytime but if it isnt cocked and ready to fire, there are no consequences. The father was astonishingly irresponsible it not making it safe, malfunction or not.

Touching the trigger is often not required to make the weapon discharge. A jolt is sometimes enough, that is why clearing it is so important and necessaryI completely agree with you.

tudedog's link though says something totally different and I've been taking issue with it.

...A man’s handgun went off while he was holding it as he got into his truck in the parking lot of a western Pennsylvania gun store Saturday, and the shot killed his 7-year-old son, authorities said.

Bullshit . . .

That gun did not “go off.” That gun fired at the command of a man’s trigger.

..........................................................................................................................

... Keep your finger off the trigger until you have made the decision to fire, which usually doesn’t include placing the gun in the car.

What happened to this man and his son sucks, but this was not the fault of the gun. It was negligence on the part of the father, pure and simple. He squeezed the trigger and the firearm did what it was designed to do by dropping the hammer on a live round.This is the problem we have with the gun lobby and their head-nodding lappies. They refuse to give and inch no matter how the evidence stacks up.

Snowfire;1414936 wrote: I've been on this Forum, on and off, since early 2005 and there have been countless threads about gun control and if there is one thing I have learned is how much the subject polarises everyone. Not just the US and non-US contingent, because God knows we don't understand the obsession with guns - least of all assault weapons - but also those in the US on both sides of the fence. There always seems little middle ground between the two and the insecurity about tweaking certain Amendments lest civil war ensues.

Ive never thought that a weapon of any sorts should be part our life, even for our average police officer. I've never met anyone who thought it remotely necessary. The whole thing is a mystery to us

I just don't know what the answer is.For those of us living here the decision has to be to cease being passive and letting these people slide by with their weak and outrageous arguments. They have to be confronted if for no other reason than to understand that we're here to voice the need to change this ridiculous trend for the long run. Our children are being slaughtered for goodness sake. The nice, responsible gun owners are going to have to face the fact that maybe it's time to do the right thing and sacrifice for the welfare of our society.

I know I come at this from a different perspective. Guns havent been necessary for us since gawd knows when and presumably never will. There does seem to be a reluctance to let go of something that has survived for pretty much your whole history. Even a reluctance to acknowledge a problem. Entrenched into your psyche as well as your Constitution. Even us over here like to fire guns, like to hunt but then we put them away. Only an oddball in the UK would think it acceptable to walk around in public with a loaded gun and think it necessary. Only teenage gang members carry a knife "for protection" No self respecting citizen carries protection

This is a different world now and its time to grow up and grow out of it. Only an Nation full of insecurity and fear puts their right to bear arms over the lives of their children

Ahso!;1414937 wrote: I completely agree with you.

tudedog's link though says something totally different and I've been taking issue with it.

This is the problem we have with the gun lobby and their head-nodding lappies. They refuse to give and inch no matter how the evidence stacks up.


That is pretty good.

This all reminds me of the fable it went of as I was cleaning it.

The gun is a meachanical thing.

Is no different than a chain saw.

A chain saw will not start itself up if dropped no matter how much gas is in the tank. It might explode or catch fire under certain conditions.

I can't believe these arguments.

Snowfire;1414941 wrote: I know I come at this from a different perspective. Guns havent been necessary for us since gawd knows when and presumably never will. There does seem to be a reluctance to let go of something that has survived for pretty much your whole history. Even a reluctance to acknowledge a problem. Entrenched into your psyche as well as your Constitution. Even us over here like to fire guns, like to hunt but then we put them away. Only an oddball in the UK would think it acceptable to walk around in public with a loaded gun and think it necessary. Only teenage gang members carry a knife "for protection" No self respecting citizen carries protection

This is a different world now and its time to grow up and grow out of it. Only an Nation full of insecurity and fear puts their right to bear arms over the lives of their childrenI recently had a similar argument on another forum with a guy (x-military, devout christian) where he finally admitted to wanting his guns in order to have the ability to shoot people in certain groups if the need came about according to his judgment. That's what some of these creeps are doing - walking around with their six-shooters just looking to have a shoot-out.

Ahso - snowfire

I so agree with your replies

I don't see this as a accident - it's clear negligence on the Father

And then - the Father is trying to sell these guns and ones looking at the items never stated they were loaded ? - no one asked?

I just can't stomach the News anymore..

Patsy

Ahso!;1414943 wrote: A chain saw will not start itself up if dropped no matter how much gas is in the tank. It might explode or catch fire under certain conditions.

I can't believe these arguments.


Not unlike my gun.

This fool obviously violated more than one safety rule, I think he needs to be taught a real lesson. Let's have a public caning or something, make an example of him to this seriously messed up society we have to live in. Having to live with what he did isn't enough IMO. Maybe a brand on his forehead, the word idiot will do fine. I'm so freaking tired of this.

Scrat;1414956 wrote: This fool obviously violated more than one safety rule, I think he needs to be taught a real lesson. Let's have a public caning or something, make an example of him to this seriously messed up society we have to live in. Having to live with what he did isn't enough IMO. Maybe a brand on his forehead, the word idiot will do fine. I'm so freaking tired of this.


WOW

And I though was harsh words with words. You take punishment to a level I would only want for the most vile of criminals.

Patsy Warnick;1414947 wrote: Ahso - snowfire

I so agree with your replies

I don't see this as a accident - it's clear negligence on the Father

And then - the Father is trying to sell these guns and ones looking at the items never stated they were loaded ? - no one asked?

I just can't stomach the News anymore..

Patsy


Offer to seal me a gun, car or snow plow, and out of hand I decline. Have no use for it.

Now tell me how I have any responsibility for that item I never touched or wanted.

Duane John, Miss. man, charged in crash that killed 5 kids, 1 adult - Crimesider - CBS News

And I though was harsh words with words. You take punishment to a level I would only want for the most vile of criminals.


How do we get people to THINK? Isn't public shame worth a try? Last summer in SPACE OF A MONTH 3 or 4 kids were killed by idiots who had guns in the Puget Sound area alone.

SO FRUSTRATING!!!!

Scrat;1414962 wrote: How do we get people to THINK? Isn't public shame worth a try? Last summer in SPACE OF A MONTH 3 or 4 kids were killed by idiots who had guns in the Puget Sound area alone.

SO FRUSTRATING!!!!You'd like us to believe your posts are the result of reasonable inner deliberation as opposed to a purely emotional reaction?

Shame, whether it be public or private is an insult, not a remedy for accidents or absent mindedness.

It's ironic that it's me defending the gun enthusiast in this thread.

Ahso!;1414971 wrote: You'd like us to believe your posts are the result of reasonable inner deliberation as opposed to a purely emotional reaction?

Shame, whether it be public or private is an insult, not a remedy for accidents or absent mindedness.

It's ironic that it's me defending the gun enthusiast in this thread.


Nothing ironic.

It's the party line, blame the inanimate object.

tude dog;1414994 wrote: Nothing ironic.

It's the party line, blame the inanimate object.In certain specific cases they do malfunction and that is a fact of life. The question is: is it a fact that we can continue to live with? The numbers are telling us - no! Nor do we need to.

Ahso!;1414997 wrote: In certain specific cases they do malfunction and that is a fact of life. The question is: is it a fact that we can continue to live with? The numbers are telling us - no! Nor do we need to.


It would be nice if you could tell the rest of some of those certain specific cases.

Go to any gun blog, site and learn that the biggest concern of gun owners is that the gun might not fire. No go where ever you want, and tell the rest of us tales of how magically a gun just went off.

tude dog;1415316 wrote: It would be nice if you could tell the rest of some of those certain specific cases.

Go to any gun blog, site and learn that the biggest concern of gun owners is that the gun might not fire. No go where ever you want, and tell the rest of us tales of how magically a gun just went off.There's nothing magical about it, they malfunction sometimes.

I wouldn't go looking at gun advocate site for these types problems with guns, I'd check official records of the one that have been reported.

So you're saying that the sheriff that said this gun fired when the owner put it down on the console is either lying or is misinterpreting the evidence? Remember, he saw the video and none of us have.

Ahso!;1415318 wrote: There's nothing magical about it, they malfunction sometimes.

I wouldn't go looking at gun advocate site for these types problems with guns, I'd check official records of the one that have been reported.

So you're saying that the sheriff that said this gun fired when the owner put it down on the console is either lying or is misinterpreting the evidence? Remember, he saw the video and none of us have.


Ahso!;1415318 wrote: There's nothing magical about it, they malfunction sometimes.


yea, like they just don't work when you pull the trigger.

Ahso!;1415318 wrote: I wouldn't go looking at gun advocate site for these types problems with guns, I'd check official records of the one that have been reported.


Go anywhere you want, show me.

tude dog;1415324 wrote: Go anywhere you want, show me.If I provide you with more examples of guns malfunctioning will you concede the issue?

Ahso!;1415328 wrote: If I provide you with more examples of guns malfunctioning will you concede the issue?


Oh please do.

I will trade your information with the gun sites I visit and let them be aware.

You seem to be under the illusion that gun owners by nature are irresponsible.

It has been my experience that gun owners, like anybody else who care about our families. We are, as everybody responsible citizens.

tude dog;1415362 wrote: Oh please do.Is that a yes, you'll concede the issue?

tude dog;1415362 wrote: You seem to be under the illusion that gun owners by nature are irresponsible.Where did you get that idea from? What I've consistently said is that there are too many of these things laying around due to an aggressive marketing campaign by the gun lobby. It was you who first stated that "there are idiots all over the place". Far too many gun owners are not responsible enough. That's not a condemnation of all gun owners.

tude dog;1415362 wrote: It has been my experience that gun owners, like anybody else who care about our families. We are, as everybody responsible citizens.Well, not EVERYBODY is a responsible citizen regardless of what group they assign themselves to, but otherwise, I can agree with your statement. I have friends who are gun owners.

Ahso!=1415337 wrote: Is that a yes, you'll concede the issue?


Ahso!=1415337 wrote: If I provide you with more examples of guns malfunctioning will you concede the issue?


Still waiting.

Ahso!;1415337 wrote: Where did you get that idea from? What I've consistently said is that there are too many of these things laying around due to an aggressive marketing campaign by the gun lobby.


I know what you said.

Name one gun lobby which markets firearms, agressive or not.



Ahso!;1415366 wrote: It was you who first stated that "there are idiots all over the place". Far too many gun owners are not responsible enough. That's not a condemnation of all gun owners.

Well, not EVERYBODY is a responsible citizen regardless of what group they assign themselves to, but otherwise, I can agree with your statement. I have friends who are gun owners.


Yea, we have an idiot in the White House, but that is another story.

tude dog;1415497 wrote: [QUOTE=Ahso!=1415337]If I provide you with more examples of guns malfunctioning will you concede the issue?
Still waiting.

Ahso!;1415337 wrote: Where did you get that idea from? What I've consistently said is that there are too many of these things laying around due to an aggressive marketing campaign by the gun lobby.


I know what you said.

Name one gun lobby which markets firearms, agressive or not.





Yea, we have an idiot in the White House, but that is another story.[/QUOTE]Just say "yes, I will concede the issue if you can show me credible proof of gun malfunctions". Your unwillingness to do that I think speaks volumes about your confidence on this.

I'll give you credible proof if you give me what I'm asking for in return. That's how negotiations and compromise works.

BTW, if you'd like to fix the difficulty you're having with quotes just change the [/url] to [/QUOTE]