ForumGarden

This has been going on for weeks now. Fingers poised on buttons, if you believe the Israeli Prime Minister. The papers have mostly claimed he's bluffing and at one point Netanyahu suggested he could be persuaded to wait until after elections to push the button if the US gave them a bunch of weaponry. Nevertheless, the claims that Israel wouldn't attack Iran are based on the premise that Israel wouldn't do something suicidal. Yet there he is threatening to do such a thing.

The weird thing is that the prime reason folks think Iran shouldn't have bombs is that they think Ahmadinejad is suicidal. Maybe they've cast their ballots too soon on which side is crazier.

I hope we don't find out.

If Israel attacks, Iran will be totally justified to try and blow them back into the water. I think it's a testament to Iran's temperance that they've allowed the assassinations and computer attacks to continue without retaliation so far.

In the Iranian poker game, Netanyahu and Barak have overplayed their hand - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper

Israel will not attack Iran. Israel does not have the resources to do it effectively. Were Iran to be attacked they would retaliate and the price to all involved would be tremendous.

I also think Israel has other things to worry about, with the Arab Spring and the glaring failures of bought peace such as in the case of Egypt, there is a rumble over the horizon. Any aggression by by Israel towards any Arab country will win her no favors.

The Washington Post discussed the elephant in the room last week, it's a welcome injection of clarity.

Patrick Pexton: What about Israel's nuclear weapons? - The Washington Post

Koan:

If Israel attacks, Iran will be totally justified to try and blow them back into the water. I think it's a testament to Iran's temperance that they've allowed the assassinations and computer attacks to continue without retaliation so far.
Iran has retaliated. They're just not very good at it.

Israeli officials say Iran will face retaliation for killing of tourists in Bulgaria - The Washington Post (retaliating the retaliation)

Iran bolsters retaliation capability in Gulf, experts say - The Washington Post

Iran 'trying to attack Israeli targets in retaliation for scientists' deaths' | World news | guardian.co.uk

Israel Says Iran Behind Attacks on Diplomats - WSJ.com

Israel's future 'at risk' if Iran strike sanctioned - Middle East - World - The Independent

"All of the past and present heads of the security establishment, the Shin Bet security service and the Mossad are saying 'don't strike'. And only Barak and Netanyahu will decide to do so? For what? ...Maybe there is another solution?"


There's a lot strutting and posing. Both are prodding each other like post pubescent schoolboys trying to impress their girlfriends.

Unfortunately, no one is impressed.

Mitt Romney is apparently prepared to support a unilateral strike on Iran by Israel

The only accusation of retaliation I'd read was an obviously bad set up where the US claimed Iran was trying to assassinate the Saudi Arabian ambassador. I was surprised more attention wasn't given to their attempts to frame Iran. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/12/us/us ... wanted=all

More attention definitely needs to be given to the aggression and history of Israel as a stock piling, nuke holder that has an extreme history of attacking its neighbour and tries to justify attacking yet another sovereign nation on the grounds that they are aggressive maniacs.

koan;1403273 wrote: The only accusation of retaliation I'd read was an obviously bad set up where the US claimed Iran was trying to assassinate the Saudi Arabian ambassador. I was surprised more attention wasn't given to their attempts to frame Iran. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/12/us/us ... wanted=all

More attention definitely needs to be given to the aggression and history of Israel as a stock piling, nuke holder that has an extreme history of attacking its neighbour and tries to justify attacking yet another sovereign nation on the grounds that they are aggressive maniacs.


Mmmm. I'd like to refer you to:

http://www.cija.ca/wp-content/uploads/2 ... final1.pdf

This document is: "The Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs serves as the official spokesperson for the organized

Canadian Jewish community, having been formed in the summer of 2011 out of various

predecessor organizations including Canadian Jewish Congress and the Canada-Israel

Committee. As the advocacy arm of Canada’s Jewish Federations, the Centre represents the

public policy interests and concerns of Jewish Canadians across the country.

The Centre has reviewed the Report of the Working Group on Israel/Palestine Policy, which will

be considered by the 41st General Council of the United Church of Canada in August 2012. This

document serves as the Centre’s response on behalf of Canada’s Jewish community."

I have only just began reading this, but I am impressed by such statements as: "We do not – nor have we ever – considered legitimate criticism of particular Israeli

government policies to be antisemitic." and

"The recognition by the Report that “Israel exists as a modern, democratic state. To now

question its legitimacy or its right to exist is unacceptable.” (4.1)

• The acknowledgement that since Israel’s inception “there has been opposition within

factions of Palestinian society and in surrounding Arab states to the existence of a Jewish

state. This has resulted in several wars that have threatened Israel’s very survival.” (4.3)

• The recognition of the genocidal proclamations of the leadership of the Islamic Republic

of Iran and the clear statement that “It is impossible to overstate the threats to the

existence of the State of Israel, which are felt throughout the country and by Jews around

the world.” (4.3)

You don't overlook Iran's statement that they would wipe Israel off the face of the earth. Or, DO YOU?

Of course I don't overlook that Ahmadinejad has said some nasty things. He most certainly has. He is a very opinionated man. What I insist is that we don't only scrutinize Ahmadinejad.

Also note that Jewish organizations declare other Jewish intellectuals who speak out against them to be "self hating Jews" and most certainly point at anti-Semitism in regards to anyone who questions them. They can say that they don't cry anti-Semitism but their actions speak differently.

koan:

Also note that Jewish organizations declare other Jewish intellectuals who speak out against them to be "self hating Jews" and most certainly point at anti-Semitism in regards to anyone who questions them. They can say that they don't cry anti-Semitism but their actions speak differently.


That is much too general, koan, & is not relevant to this conversation. It's not a superfluous dig, is it? Besides, as I have explained to spot on another thread, the call that one is a "self-hating" Jew means basically nothing. Christians seem to enjoy hearing it. As for the cry of anti-semitism, well I guess that's what happens when a people are literally hounded to death for a thousand years or so, culminating in the Final Solution. People can be a mite sensitive when that occurs, ya think?

PS, I have had trouble posting today, anyone else?

AnneBoleyn;1403298 wrote: koan:



That is much too general, koan, & is not relevant to this conversation. It's not a superfluous dig, is it? Besides, as I have explained to spot on another thread, the call that one is a "self-hating" Jew means basically nothing. Christians seem to enjoy hearing it. As for the cry of anti-semitism, well I guess that's what happens when a people are literally hounded to death for a thousand years or so, culminating in the Final Solution. People can be a mite sensitive when that occurs, ya think?

PS, I have had trouble posting today, anyone else?


huh?

It was a response to your post from the The Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs which has nothing to do with what I said in the quoted bit. Superfluous dig? I have more reason to think you were taking a dig at me than the reverse. Then you accuse me of being off topic? Trust me, I have no interest in discussing anti-semitism here. The term has been rendered meaningless by organizations like CIJA.

Sometimes words just get in the way. Apologies to you for any misunderstandings.

It happens, glad we cleared it up.

This is a time consuming topic as any opinions generally need to be accompanied by tons of links to justify an opinion. Hopefully it can be discussed while granting everyone freedom from assumed bad intentions.

You don't overlook Iran's statement that they would wipe Israel off the face of the earth. Or, DO YOU?


Do you know what he really said? I doubt it, it doesn't really matter anyway. You can look it up if you like. I;m not going to lead you to the water.

Scrat;1403348 wrote: Do you know what he really said? I doubt it, it doesn't really matter anyway. You can look it up if you like. I;m not going to lead you to the water.
There's a pretty good summary here Israeli Minister Agrees Ahmadinejad Never Said Israel 'Must Be Wiped Off the Map' - NYTimes.com

He's still said some pretty harsh things (like Holocaust denial) and, as the article points out:

The author, who recently spent time in Tehran, suggested that Mr. Ahmadinejad has perhaps made so little effort to explain that he was misquoted because he relishes his image as a sworn enemy of Israel, and would not want to be seen as stepping back from even threatening remarks he did not make.

As the Guardian columnist Jonathan Steele explained in 2006, a more direct translation of Mr. Ahmadinejad’s remarks would be: “this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time,” echoing a statement once made by the founder of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.
Israeli Minister Agrees Ahmadinejad Never Said Israel 'Must Be Wiped Off the Map' - NYTimes.com

A rose is a rose is a rose, but I really appreciated the link. I want truth, not fiction, so thanks to you both scrat & koan.

Damn. Now I'm glad I told Harper's phone harpies that I don't support them. Just found out we're closing the Canadian embassy in Iran.

Mundy has said it seems Prime Minister Stephen Harper is priming Canadians to support a military strike against Iran.

Ex-Canadian ambassador questions cutting ties with Iran - thestar.com

Long gone are the days when Canada was a peacekeeping country.