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US said Saddam was a dictator and activated a war on Iraq. As a result, Islamic extremists control Iraq and Iraq Christian suffered severe persecution. They escaped to Syria. Now US says Assad is a dictator and ..... Poor Christians, where will they go this time?

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The price of regime change

By David Warren, Ottawa Citizen

There are millions of Christians in Syria, who probably have the Russians and Chinese to thank that they may live there a little longer. The Security Council vetoes, a fortnight ago, on a resolution calling upon Syria's dictator to step down, and supporting an Arab-sponsored plan to "end the violence," put paid to any immediate prospect of western intervention.

The outrage expressed by Hillary Clinton, William Hague, and other western foreign ministers, probably concealed a little relief, for the vetoes provided the excuse they needed to avoid the issue, while continuing to posture about "humanitarianism" and "democracy."

…….



Christians were as common in Syria as in Egypt, before their numbers were immensely swelled by refugees from Iraq - well over a million fleeing up the Euphrates River valley, from anti-Christian persecution by Iraq's Islamists. By now, there could be more than four million Christians within Syria's borders.

When the Assad regime falls, it will be open season on them, on the Alawites, and all the other minorities. Granted, Assad is a monster who has earned an ugly fate. But at what expense should we indulge the fleeting satisfaction of deposing him?



Read more: The price of regime change

Iraq: Worse for Christians Now Than under Saddam Hussein

Michael Ireland, Chief Correspondent, ASSIST News Service

Tuesday, July 01, 2008

July 2, 2008

BAGHDAD (ANS) -- The Reverend Canon Andrew White, affectionately known as The Vicar of Baghdad, says the situation for Christians in Iraq is "clearly worse" than under the Saddam Hussein regime, toppled by US and Coalition forces in 2003.

In a segment of the CBS news program 60 Minutes, originally broadcast on Dec. 2, 2007, updated June 26 and aired on June 29, 2008, correspondent Scott Pelley asked Canon White: "You were here during Saddam’s reign. And now after. Which was better? Which was worse?"

"The situation now is clearly worse” than under Saddam, White replied.

"There’s no comparison between Iraq now and then," he told Pelley. "Things are the most difficult they have ever been for Christians. Probably ever in history. They’ve never known it like now."

Iraq: Worse for Christians Now Than under Saddam Hussein - Religion Today News Headlines

There were churches in Afghan before US invasion. None is left 10 years after US occupied Afghan. Be noticed that this news indirectly(may be the news agency is afraid of being called "unpatriot"?) related this to US foreign policy.

Not a Single Christian Church Left in Afghanistan, Says State Department

By Edwin Mora

October 10, 2011

Subscribe to Edwin Mora's posts



(CNSNews.com) -- There is not a single, public Christian church left in Afghanistan, according to the U.S. State Department.

This reflects the state of religious freedom in that country ten years after the United States first invaded it and overthrew its Islamist Taliban regime.

In the intervening decade, U.S. taxpayers have spent $440 billion to support Afghanistan's new government and more than 1,700 U.S. military personnel have died serving in that country.

The last public Christian church in Afghanistan was razed in March 2010, according to the State Department's latest International Religious Freedom Report.

Syrian Christians worry about life after Bashar Assad

They fear civil war and revenge attacks if President Bashar Assad falls, an anxiety fed by the sectarian violence seen in Egypt and Iraq.

Ignatius IV, patriarch of the Greek Orthodox Church, described Syria as an oasis of religious tolerance where Christians can worship freely, build sanctuaries and run schools, activities that are restricted by varying degrees in a number of Middle Eastern countries.

Christian clerics are frequently shown on television taking part in joint prayer services with their Muslim counterparts. The defense minister is a Christian, as are other senior members of the government and security forces.

"Wherever you go, you find Christians and Muslims," said the patriarch, who has a photograph of himself with Assad displayed on his office wall. "There is no distinction."

Syria Christians worry about life after President Bashar Assad - chicagotribune.com

It seems to me that what you are saying is that unless there is a dictator to stop them, muslims persecute christians. Is that what you mean?

I mean the purpose of the war in Mid-east is for the oil interest not for so said "democracy". Just look at the fate of those Christians. It's a looting war for the interest group. They controlled the natural resource. Pentagon got fat budget. The Feds expanded its power: the Patriot Act and NDAA. With media, they play people as fool. Are you real ignorant or just pretend to?

I think the examples you presented demonstrate my point as well or better than yours. As it happens, I think it more complicated than that.

In my case, a dictator represses internal dissent of any sort. But that does not remove social and religious hatreds, it just bottles them up and when the repression is removed they come bubbling up again.

In your case, yes, oil was certainly a major part of the removal of Saddam Hussein. But there are other reasons too, and I think it took all of them to create the coalition. Genuine loathing of the dictator was also part of it, the massacre of the Kurds, the threat of WMD and a sense of unfinished business all played their part.

I think you oversimplify. For example, you take evidence which could mean many things and say it only means what you want it to mean, which is one way conspiracy theories happen.

I am concerned at the way the USA is going. It has always had its brutal side, another example of which you posted in another thread, and I think the lobbyist system is just awful, oh and I can go on. But it isn't the whole story. By just standing tall for democracy as they have done they enabled it to survive its darkest hours and seen off both fascism and communism. If they hadn't you and I would not be able to have this discussion. I think their religious side is a weakness of their society, and that isn't helping their dealings with the Islamic world or their own internal issues.

edit: And we're certainly not perfect over here, either!

So far you still haven't make your point clear in your vague comment. You try to cover up for your master by accusing others are at the side of dictators.

US and its allies started war in the name of "democracy" and "regime change on dictators". What the war brought to people are the disaster much worse than the "life under dictators". The life of Christians in Mid-east is a proof. That's what I have put in this thread. You have nothing to argue but blame "dictators".

Here is more for you: Iraq, after nine years of US occupation, has become the worst corrupt country in Mid-east. Tha's not the result of saddam's rule but the result after he was eliminated by the US.

Iraq the world’s fourth-most-corrupt country and by far the worst in the Middle East. That's what an US asset politician in Iraq says.

How the U.S. and the world can help Iraq

By Ayad Allawi, Published: August 31



“More than eight years after Saddam Hussein’s regime was overthrown, basic services are in a woeful state: Most of the country has only a few hours of electricity a day. Blackouts were increasingly common this summer.

“Oil exports, still Iraq’s only source of income, are barely more than they were when Hussein was toppled. The government has squandered the boon of high oil prices and failed to create real and sustainable job growth. Iraq’s economy has become an ever more dysfunctional mix of cronyism and mismanagement, with high unemployment and endemic corruption.

“Transparency International ranks Iraq the world’s fourth-most-corrupt country and by far the worst in the Middle East. The promise of improved security has been empty, with sectarianism on the rise.”

False Promises

Allawi also cites the false promises of democracy:

“Despite failing to win the most seats in last year’s elections, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki clung to power through a combination of Iranian support and U.S. compliance. He now shows an alarming disregard for democratic principles and the rule of law.

“Vital independent institutions such as the election commission, the transparency commission and Iraq’s central bank have been ordered to report directly to the office of the prime minister. Meanwhile, Maliki refuses to appoint consensus candidates as defense and interior ministers, as per last year’s power-sharing agreement.

“The government is using blatant dictatorial tactics and intimidation to quell opposition, ignoring the most basic human rights. Human Rights Watch reported in February on secret torture prisons under Maliki’s authority.

“In June, it exposed the government’s use of hired thugs to beat, stab and even sexually assault peaceful demonstrators in Baghdad who were complaining about corruption and poor services. These horrors are reminiscent of autocratic responses to demonstrations by failing regimes elsewhere in the region, and a far cry from the freedom and democracy promised in the new Iraq.

“Is this really what the United States sacrificed more than 4,000 young men and women, and hundreds of billions of dollars, to build? The trend of failure is becoming irreversible.”

So what is going on here? How can the U.S. media hail Petraeus’s “successful surge” and write about “victory at last” in Iraq when it appears that the Bush-Cheney-neocon intervention has created what amounts to a failed state in Iraq?



How the U.S. and the world can help Iraq - The Washington Post

So you prefer life under dictators? Your article says it's going back to that, after all: Steadily increasing corruption and so on? Whereas the Ba'ath Party didn't murder and torture dissidents by the thousand and ten of thousand, massacre villages with nerve gas? And still would be killing if the invasion had not happened?

The mistake the US made with their planning - right from the start - was to assume that democracy would just naturally follow. Frankly, it doesn't surprise me that a government headed by a corporate glove puppet like GW Bush made an error like that - I don't need conspiracy theories when stupidity, ignorance and greed will do. The US needed a twenty year follow-up plan after the invasion. It had no concept such a thing would be needed at any level that saw official light that I'm aware of. You might say that would be evidence they never intended to do anything but trash the place; but I would say that official America can easily be that dumb.

I understand the Christian sect in Syria is allied to the ruling party along with other minor Islamic groups and involved in the current massacres, and that the situation is moving from protest to civil war at considerable speed. It seems - I'm not sure of this - that the ruling party is forcing many of the militias to do their dirty work and so get them guilty and implicated in the crimes of the regime and so forced to support the regime. I wouldn't be surprised if their own families were under threat if they didn't. Is this better or worse than Iraq? Should we arm the rebels? Intervene with some air support? Invade? Do nothing? And as Russia and China veto any action, the violence starts between pro and anti Assad groups in Tripoli. This is starting to spread.

I am aware I have little chance of convincing you of anything. I am just trying to point out that other interpretations of the evidence exist.

Clodhopper;1395368 wrote: So you prefer life under dictators? Your article says it's going back to that, after all: Steadily increasing corruption and so on? .


Again you use "dictators" to justify unjust war in Mid-east. You avoid to talk about disaster the new regime (set up by US and its allies) have brought upon Mid-east people. My opinion is very clear. The new regime set up by US and its allies is no other than so said "dictators". The people live a worse life after regime change. It's not I prefer life under dictators. You should ask people over there for this question. Do they prefer life uner dictators? It seems they know better that the regime change preferred by you is worse.

Most Syrians back President Assad, but you'd never know from western media

Assad's popularity, Arab League observers, US military involvement: all distorted in the west's propaganda war

Jonathan Steele guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 17 January 2012

The key finding was that while most Arabs outside Syria feel the president should resign, attitudes in the country are different. Some 55% of Syrians want Assad to stay, motivated by fear of civil war – a spectre that is not theoretical as it is for those who live outside Syria's borders.

Most Syrians back President Assad


And you are shameless to boast on corruption. Iraq becomes the world’s fourth-most-corrupt country and by far the worst in the Middle East after US occupation. That's what an US asset politician in Iraq says.

How the U.S. and the world can help Iraq

By Ayad Allawi, Published: August 31



“More than eight years after Saddam Hussein’s regime was overthrown, basic services are in a woeful state: Most of the country has only a few hours of electricity a day. Blackouts were increasingly common this summer.

“Oil exports, still Iraq’s only source of income, are barely more than they were when Hussein was toppled. The government has squandered the boon of high oil prices and failed to create real and sustainable job growth. Iraq’s economy has become an ever more dysfunctional mix of cronyism and mismanagement, with high unemployment and endemic corruption.

[“Transparency International ranks Iraq the world’s fourth-most-corrupt country and by far the worst in the Middle East.[ The promise of improved security has been empty, with sectarianism on the rise.”

False Promises

Allawi also cites the false promises of democracy:

“Despite failing to win the most seats in last year’s elections, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki clung to power through a combination of Iranian support and U.S. compliance. He now shows an alarming disregard for democratic principles and the rule of law.

“Vital independent institutions such as the election commission, the transparency commission and Iraq’s central bank have been ordered to report directly to the office of the prime minister. Meanwhile, Maliki refuses to appoint consensus candidates as defense and interior ministers, as per last year’s power-sharing agreement.

“The government is using blatant dictatorial tactics and intimidation to quell opposition, ignoring the most basic human rights. Human Rights Watch reported in February on secret torture prisons under Maliki’s authority.

“In June, it exposed the government’s use of hired thugs to beat, stab and even sexually assault peaceful demonstrators in Baghdad who were complaining about corruption and poor services. These horrors are reminiscent of autocratic responses to demonstrations by failing regimes elsewhere in the region, and a far cry from the freedom and democracy promised in the new Iraq.

“Is this really what the United States sacrificed more than 4,000 young men and women, and hundreds of billions of dollars, to build? The trend of failure is becoming irreversible.”

So what is going on here? How can the U.S. media hail Petraeus’s “successful surge” and write about “victory at last” in Iraq when it appears that the Bush-Cheney-neocon intervention has created what amounts to a failed state in Iraq?



How the U.S. and the world can help Iraq - The Washington Post




Yes, your slogan and hollow accusing won't convince me. It's the people's life over there that does.

I suppose the current state of Syria is nothing to do with Assad, and entirely a American plot which Russia is bravely fighting, and the CIA killed the victims in Houla?

I have agreed the state of Iraq is pretty bad and said I think it is down to the total lack of a plan for after the invasion had succeeded. But you don't seem to want to talk to me, you just shout a lot.

I would like to know what YOU think should be done about the current state of Syria? I think even the Americans have realised democracy won't just break out in Syria after a civil war - it will be a cesspit of sectarian violence for decades. Talking of corruption, I gather one of the problems in Syria is that it has been getting steadily worse over the last thirty years and that is what has caused a lot of the current unrest.

Oh, and yes, I really loathe dictators. Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, all of them.

I started this thread with four posts to prove that Christians in Mid-east have worse lives after US started its war in Mid-east. Which means US and the puppet government it set up are worse than the dictators they overturned. It seems that angers you, you begin to tarnish with "dictator".



It seems to me that what you are saying is that unless there is a dictator to stop them, muslims persecute christians. Is that what you mean?


So you prefer life under dictators?


You have nothing to debate but hollowly accusing "conspiracy".

I think you oversimplify. For example, you take evidence which could mean many things and say it only means what you want it to mean, which is one way conspiracy theories happen.


And defend your master by "mistake of plan". and attack I support "Steadily increasing corruption and so on?"

But I proved it is the US who established the most corrupt country in Mid-east. Then you go back to your slogan again.



Oh, and yes, I really loathe dictators. Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, all of them.


It's easy to shout slogan just like those presidents do in their election campaign. Don't imitate them. They are just as bad as those dictators. They killed more civilians then those dictators did.(Please don't accuse me of stand with "dictators". I never did so. You hint so. I view them as bad as US regime.And US regime maybe worse.)

Number of years the Iraq War lasted — the official tally is eight years, eight months, and 25 days. As a start date, The Washington Post points to March 20, 2003, when an airstrike was launched in southern Baghdad where Saddam Hussein was presumed to be hiding.



104,080 to 113,728

Estimated number of Iraqi civilians killed during the mission, according to Iraq Body Count

The Iraq War's 'quiet' end: By the numbers - Yahoo! News


As for your "I wouldn't be surprised if their own families were under threat if they didn't."

Syria: anti-government groups committed Houla massacre

Reuters – 1 hr 6 mins ago

BEIRUT (Reuters) - Syria said on Thursday a preliminary investigation showed that anti-government armed groups committed a massacre last week in Houla, in which 108 people were killed, with the aim of encouraging foreign military intervention against the Syrian government.

Brigadier General Qassem Jamal Suleiman, head of the investigation committee formed by the government, said the victims were families "who refused to oppose the government and were at odds with the armed groups".

He said many of the victims were relatives of a member of the Syrian parliament.

(Reporting by Mariam Karouny; Editing by Kevin Liffey)

Syria: anti-government groups committed Houla massacre - Yahoo! News

Clodhopper;1395397 wrote: I suppose the current state of Syria is nothing to do with Assad, and entirely a American plot which Russia is bravely fighting, and the CIA killed the victims in Houla?


Or, to be more sensible, the Syrian opposition. Read BBC world news editor: Houla massacre coverage based on opposition propaganda for the quotes taken from the blog of the BBC's world news editor Jon Williams. The Western media coverage is more biased than ever, just as it was in Libya.

You want to know the source of the problem? Here's a clue... "SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: Putting U.S. ground forces in would be not only not appropriate, but counterproductive. We just need to arm and equip these people, the same way that we did in Libya".

I started this thread with four posts to prove that Christians in Mid-east have worse lives after US started its war in Mid-east. Which means US and the puppet government it set up are worse than the dictators they overturned. It seems that angers you, you begin to tarnish with "dictator".


Logical fallacy. The two sentences do not connect: Even if the situation is worse for Christians afterwards that does not prove that the US is worse than dictators in itself.



You have nothing to debate but hollowly accusing "conspiracy".


I am not aware of a particular conspiracy in this case. I pointed out that the way you are linking data together without showing sufficient reason to do so is one way conspiracy theories happen.



And defend your master by "mistake of plan". and attack I support "Steadily increasing corruption and so on?

But I proved it is the US who established the most corrupt country in Mid-east. Then you go back to your slogan again.




I could start saying everything you post is just the opinion of your masters in Beijing. After all, you are supporting the Assad regime by your posts which surely "proves" you are just a Chinese puppet...Or we could both agree that personal insults aren't going to get us anywhere. Just stick to being rude about my arguments and I'll do you the same courtesy. And quoting Allad Allawi's view as a politician does not prove anything. Because the result of an action is poor, it does not mean that the intention behind the action MUST have been to produce that poor outcome.





It's easy to shout slogan just like those presidents do in their election campaign. Don't imitate them. They are just as bad as those dictators. They killed more civilians then those dictators did.(Please don't accuse me of stand with "dictators". I never did so. You hint so. I view them as bad as US regime.And US regime maybe worse.)


I am glad we can agree on something.



As for your "I wouldn't be surprised if their own families were under threat if they didn't."


The person you quote is described in the article as an officer in Assad's Army. What do you think he is going to say? "Yes we did it, oops, sorry"?

I really wouldn't be surprised if their families were threatened to make them do it. I'm not saying it's a definite fact, just that it's the sort of thing I'd expect. I also would not be surprised to find the uprising has committed its own massacres, even if we haven't heard of them. Once civil war gets going the one thing you can be sure of is atrocity.

spot;1396555 wrote: Or, to be more sensible, the Syrian opposition. Read BBC world news editor: Houla massacre coverage based on opposition propaganda for the quotes taken from the blog of the BBC's world news editor Jon Williams. The Western media coverage is more biased than ever, just as it was in Libya.

You want to know the source of the problem? Here's a clue... "SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: Putting U.S. ground forces in would be not only not appropriate, but counterproductive. We just need to arm and equip these people, the same way that we did in Libya".


Interesting articles. Thanks. We will see what happens. Someone killed those people in Houla and elsewhere...

katsung47;1388073 wrote: US said Saddam was a dictator and activated a war on Iraq. As a result, Islamic extremists control Iraq and Iraq Christian suffered severe persecution. They escaped to Syria. Now US says Assad is a dictator and ..... Poor Christians, where will they go this time?




Maybe they can camp out on George Bush's big ranch. Probably what needs to happen is the U.S. should stop electing Christians who attack oil-rich Muslim countries. It's not going to help tribal relations. Locally we had an increase in hate crimes against Mulsims after 9/11. Some redneck Christian drove his truck into a local mosque. Though of course in the U.S., we'd say that "poor Christian" drove his "poor truck" into an "anti-Christian" mosque. We make sure to demonize one group, and place less value on them as humans. That's probably half the problem.

katsung: You are arguing in a language that is not your own. I would like to mention that I am impressed by your ability to express your opinion. The language we argue in is my own. Please understand you have my respect. If you did not, I would not be talking to you.

Clodhopper;1396579 wrote:

I could start saying everything you post is just the opinion of your masters in Beijing. After all, you are supporting the Assad regime by your posts which surely "proves" you are just a Chinese puppet...Or we could both agree that personal insults aren't going to get us anywhere. Just stick to being rude about my arguments and I'll do you the same courtesy.

.


Well, I don't know where did you have the idea that Beijing is my master. I think my reference is very clear. It is what Syrian's opinion. I post them here again,

Syrian Christians worry about life after Bashar Assad

They fear civil war and revenge attacks if President Bashar Assad falls, an anxiety fed by the sectarian violence seen in Egypt and Iraq.

Ignatius IV, patriarch of the Greek Orthodox Church, described Syria as an oasis of religious tolerance where Christians can worship freely, build sanctuaries and run schools, activities that are restricted by varying degrees in a number of Middle Eastern countries.

Christian clerics are frequently shown on television taking part in joint prayer services with their Muslim counterparts. The defense minister is a Christian, as are other senior members of the government and security forces.



Syria Christians worry about life after President Bashar Assad - chicagotribune.com




Most Syrians back President Assad, but you'd never know from western media

Assad's popularity, Arab League observers, US military involvement: all distorted in the west's propaganda war

Jonathan Steele guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 17 January 2012

The key finding was that while most Arabs outside Syria feel the president should resign, attitudes in the country are different. Some 55% of Syrians want Assad to stay, motivated by fear of civil war – a spectre that is not theoretical as it is for those who live outside Syria's borders.

Most Syrians back President Assad




please find Beijing's shadow from them for me.

Clodhopper;1396579 wrote:

And quoting Allad Allawi's view as a politician does not prove anything. Because the result of an action is poor, it does not mean that the intention behind the action MUST have been to produce that poor outcome.

.


Allawi said, "“Transparency International ranks Iraq the world’s fourth-most-corrupt country and by far the worst in the Middle East. The promise of improved security has been empty, with sectarianism on the rise.”


It doesn't prove anything? Though English is my second language, I understand the word "worst in the Middle East". If I don't make a mistake, you mean US's war in Mid-east is good because the intention is good but the action is poor. I am afraid your logic won't go through a court. You rob a bank, you won't be innocent because you say you will spend the money on poor. The fact is Iraq is worse than Saddam's regime. And much more people became refugee.

By they way, your "intention" here is hypocrite. I mean your master use "for freedom", "democracy", "overturn dictatorship" to justify its illegal action. It's easy to shout slogan. As a matter of fact, new regime set up by US are more corrupt Islamic extremist. The purpose is to replace disorbedient "dictator" with a puppet agent of its own so US can control oil rich resources.

Beijing is as much your master as the USA is mine (if that is who you meant when your referred to my "master"?)

If this war was the only one the USA had fought, I would be much more likely to agree with you. Previously the USA fought wars to oppose Communism and to liberate Europe (and free Kuwait from Saddam Hussein's illegal invasion). If they had not, I would probably be writing in German or Russian if I was alive at all. This does not mean I support the USA unconditionally - I argue with Americans on these boards on many issues, and Guantanamo Bay is a permanent stain on the USA's reputation (as Abu Ghraib is on the UK's).

I remind you again that referring to me as having a master is very offensive, and if you continue to do so, I will simply leave you to rant alone. Also my intention is not hypocritical - I know that and you don't.

I am now too angry to continue this at the moment. It's not every day I am called a slave and a hypocrite in the same post.

Clodhopper;1396678 wrote: I would probably be writing in German or RussianI'm trying to think of instances within living memory where a nationality has changed language as a result of an invasion. Alsace-Lorraine might just qualify but they do share a border with the invading force and they were bilingual to begin with. It's to do with forced schooling solely in the invader's language. Maybe my brain's not working well but I can't bring examples to mind. Did the Boer do it to anyone? Israel? Australians did, score one for Australia, but they've apologised. The US did around the 1880s. They, of course, haven't apologised at all.

Clodhopper;1396678 wrote: Beijing is as much your master as the USA is mine (if that is who you meant when your referred to my "master"?)

If this war was the only one the USA had fought, I would be much more likely to agree with you. Previously the USA fought wars to oppose Communism and to liberate Europe (and free Kuwait from Saddam Hussein's illegal invasion). If they had not, I would probably be writing in German or Russian if I was alive at all. This does not mean I support the USA unconditionally - I argue with Americans on these boards on many issues, and Guantanamo Bay is a permanent stain on the USA's reputation (as Abu Ghraib is on the UK's).

I remind you again that referring to me as having a master is very offensive, and if you continue to do so, I will simply leave you to rant alone. Also my intention is not hypocritical - I know that and you don't.

I am now too angry to continue this at the moment. It's not every day I am called a slave and a hypocrite in the same post.


I'm sorry I've offended you that much. I won't do that on you any more. Please be understandable that is a debate.

SYRIA: US-NATO Supported "Opposition" Commits Extensive War Crimes

by Devon DB

Global Research, March 20, 2012

Finally, it should be noted that there are many similarities between the Syrian rebels and the Libyan rebels. The Libyan rebels launched a media propaganda war against Gaddafi, must like how Al Jazeera has lied about the ongoing events in Syria. In addition to this, much like the Syrian rebels, the Libyan rebels also committed war crimes.

While there are those who may be pushing for intervention into Syria, they may want to rethink it the situation in light of this new information. The situation may end up much worse as the Libyan rebels were linked to Al Qaeda and the NTC is now going to enact Sharia law. We should not want the same fate for the people of Syria.

SYRIA: US-NATO Supported "Opposition" Commits Extensive War Crimes

Houla massacre carried out by Free Syrian Army, according to Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung



By Chris Marsden

13 June 2012



The May 25 Houla massacre was perpetrated by opposition forces aligned with the Free Syrian Army (FSA), according to Germany’s leading daily newspaper, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.



The report refutes the official account by the United States and other major powers and presented uncritically by the media. The massacre was attributed to pro-government forces and used to step up the propaganda offensive for military intervention against the regime of Bashar al-Assad. Without providing any serious evidence, the US and its allies claimed that either the Syrian Army or pro-government Shabiha militas carried out the mass killing of over 100 people.



The Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung on June 7 published a report from Damascus by Rainer Hermann, who based his article on investigations by oppositionists who visited the area and took eye-witness testimony. They largely confirm the account of the events in Houla given by the Assad government.



“Their findings contradict allegations of the rebels, who had blamed the Shabiha militias which are close to the regime”, Hermann wrote, adding, “As oppositionists rejecting the use of force have been killed or at least threatened lately, the oppositionists did not want to see their names mentioned.”



The massacre took place after Friday prayers and began with an attack by Sunni “rebels” on three Syrian army checkpoints around Houla. “The checkpoints are designed to protect the Alawite villages around the mostly Sunni Houla”, the German daily reported.



......



The regime noted that the massacre was timed to coincide with the visit of UN envoy Kofi Annan to Damascus. It charged that the mass killings were carried out to undermine the ceasefire Annan had negotiated. Soon after, the FSA, which is now accused of carrying out the massacre, said it would no longer respect the Annan peace plan. New demands for military intervention came thick and fast.

Houla massacre carried out by Free Syrian Army, according to Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung

German Intelligence: "al-Qaeda" All Over Syria

2012-07-25





By John Rosenthal

German intelligence estimates that "around 90" terror attacks that "can be attributed to organizations that are close to al-Qaeda or jihadist groups" were carried out in Syria between the end of December and the beginning of July, as reported by the German daily Die Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (FAZ). This was revealed by the German government in a response to a parliamentary question.

German Intelligence: "al-Qaeda" All Over Syria

US Treasury Confirms that Al Qaeda Runs Syrian "Rebellion"

by Tony Cartalucci

Global Research, July 27, 2012

US fails to sell militants in Syria as "freedom fighters," tells truth for pretext to liquidate monsters of their own creation.

The Wall Street Journal (WSJ) in its article, "Al Qaeda's War for Syria," cited officials from the US Treasury Department stating, "Al Qaeda in Syria (often operating as the "Al Nusra Front for the People of the Levant") is using traffickers—some ideologically aligned, some motivated by money—to secure routes through Turkey and Iraq for foreign fighters, most of whom are from the Middle East and North Africa. A growing number of donors from the Persian Gulf and Levant appear to be sending financial support."

This undercuts the West's year and a half-long narrative that Syria's violence was the result of a so-called "uprising" by the people of Syria. While the WJS attempts to downplay this admission by claiming, "al Qaeda makes up a small part of the resistance movement," it concedes that, "its strength appears to be rising." In reality, it was Al Qaeda militants from the very beginning, and the only aspect of the conflict "rising" is public awareness of this fact.

Since 2007, US Aided and Abetted Al Qaeda Affiliates Against Syria

A Foreign Invasion, not a Rebellion

The WSJ's article begins with the sentence, "the United States and its allies should consider opening a second front in the Syrian war. In addition to helping end Bashar Assad's rule, there is a growing need to conduct a covert campaign against al Qaeda and other extremist groups gaining a presence in the country."

West Used Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and Libya, Is Using Al Qaeda Now in Syria

US Treasury Confirms that Al Qaeda Runs Syrian "Rebellion"

None of insurgents were Syrian: UK journalist



Monday August 6, 2012 - 08:43



Not a Syrian in sight. This wasn’t what I had expected…Two of them were so Anglicised they couldn’t speak Arabic.”

John Cantile, British journalist freed from capture in Syria

A British photographer who was captured by insurgents in Syria has said that his captors were foreign extremists including several Britons with “not a Syrian in sight”.

On July 19, freelance photographer John Cantile, alongside his Dutch colleague Jeroen Oerlemans, was kidnapped in northern Syrian and freed one week later.

Cantile said he was held in a camp by 30 foreign extremists including some from Britain and Pakistan. He also revealed that some of his captors were “young men with south London accents”.

“Not a Syrian in sight. This wasn't what I had expected”, Cantile added. “Two of them were so Anglicised they couldn't speak Arabic”.

PressTV - None of insurgents were Syrian: UK journalist

‘US, Israel behind terrorism and social unrest in Syria’

Apr 29, 2012

Syria has been experiencing unrest since mid-March 2011 and many people, including members of the security forces, have been killed in the turmoil.

Damascus blames armed terrorist groups for the country’s year-long unrest, asserting that violent acts are being orchestrated from abroad.

Press TV has conducted an interview with Paul Sheldon Foote, professor at the California State University, Irvine, to further discuss the issue. The following is a rough transcription of the interview.

Press TV: Professor, how would you explain Russia’s stance and position towards Syria?

Foote: I think it’s time that someone started telling the truth about it. It’s very obvious that America, Israel and some Arab countries are behind this terrorism in Syria.

PressTV - ‘US, Israel behind terrorism and social unrest in Syria’

PressTV is Iran's official network. Take whatever they say knowing the source from which it comes. As for PS Foote, here is one of his insane comments: "There is a very long history of the successful use of the Crypto-Jew technique. Jews have pretended to convert from Judaism to Christianity and to Islam…Currently, Crypto-Jews, Jews, Christian Zionists, Zionists, neo-conservatives (neo-Trotskyites), and others are attempting to convince Christians to hate Muslims. How many Christian soldiers have died in Iraq and in Afghanistan to advance the sick, totalitarian dreams of the admirers of Trotsky?"

Crypto-Jews Duping Christians to Hate Muslims « Paul Sheldon Foote

Shove it batshitt47

Bush was the president of the US. He declares war on Iraq on March 2003. All mainstream media repeat his "WMD" lie. What's your say?

katsung47;1405334 wrote: Bush was the president of the US. He declares war on Iraq on March 2003. All mainstream media repeat his "WMD" lie. What's your say?


I say I agree with this particular statement.

Al Qaeda leader urges support for ousting Syria's Assad

Reuters – Thu, Sep 13, 2012.

DUBAI (Reuters) - Al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahri has called on all Muslims to back the rebels in Syria, saying the overthrow of President Bashar al-Assad would bring them closer to the ultimate goal of defeating Israel, according to an audio recording posted on the Internet on Thursday.

Al Qaeda leader urges support for ousting Syria's Assad - Yahoo! News

Christians 'emptied from Middle East'

Rowan Callick

October 06, 2012

THE mother superior of a 1500-year-old monastery in Syria warned yesterday during a visit to Australia that the uprising against Bashar al-Assad has been hijacked by foreign Islamist mercenaries, with strong support from Western countries.

Mother Agnes-Mariam de la Croix was forced to flee to neighbouring Lebanon in June when she was warned of a plot to abduct her, after she revealed that about 80,000 Christians had been "cleared" by rebel forces from their homes in Homs province.

She described on the website of the Greek-Melkite Catholic monastery of St James, the church she rebuilt 18 years ago after discovering it in ruins, how Islamist rebels had gathered Christian and Alawi hostages in a building in Khalidiya in Homs. Then they blew it up with dynamite and attributed the act to the regular army.

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

Western-Backed Rebels Move Against Syria’s Christian Minority

Churches in Homs Under Constant Attack

by Jason Ditz, October 14, 2012

Militant factions in rebel-held cities like Homs see Christian communities as easy targets for extortion, and the more Islamist blocs regularly target their churches, damaging many and destroying others.



Christians and other minorities have tried to form militias to protect their neighborhoods, but with the rebels awash in Western money and arms, they are simply out-manned and outgunned. As the fight continues to escalate, the groups are facing a tougher and tougher choice about whether to try to stay or to flee abroad.

Western-Backed Rebels Move Against Syria’s Christian Minority -- News from Antiwar.com

The plight of Syria's Christians: 'We left Homs because they were trying to kill us'



In the civil war, they have tried to stay neutral. But despite this, many are now facing persecution and death



Kim Sengupta



Al-Qaa, Lebanon Friday 02 November 2012

The car may have been the reason why the 23-year-old student was ambushed and taken hostage, along with a female friend, as they were travelling to a shopping complex. The revolutionary fighters with Kalashnikovs who led them away subjected Mr Bedrosian – blindfolded and tied up – to savage beatings and threats of execution before the pair was finally freed in exchange for a ransom.

Or there may have been a different reason for the attack: they were targeted by the Sunni Muslim rebels because they were Christians. Mr Bedrosian did not wait long to find out, leaving – along with his brother – for Lebanon. Others from the Syrian Armenian community followed, abandoning their homes.

The plight of Syria's Christians: 'We left Homs because they were trying to kill us' - Middle East - World - The Independent

General Wesley Clark: Wars Were Planned - Seven Countries In Five Years

General Wesley Clark:

Because I had been through the Pentagon right after 9/11. About ten days after 9/11, I went through the Pentagon and I saw Secretary Rumsfeld and Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz. I went downstairs just to say hello to some of the people on the Joint Staff who used to work for me, and one of the generals called me in. He said, "Sir, you've got to come in and talk to me a second." I said, "Well, you're too busy." He said, "No, no." He says, "We've made the decision we're going to war with Iraq." This was on or about the 20th of September. I said, "We're going to war with Iraq? Why?" He said, "I don't know." He said, "I guess they don't know what else to do." So I said, "Well, did they find some information connecting Saddam to al-Qaeda?" He said, "No, no." He says, "There's nothing new that way. They just made the decision to go to war with Iraq." He said, "I guess it's like we don't know what to do about terrorists, but we've got a good military and we can take down governments." And he said, "I guess if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem has to look like a nail."



So I came back to see him a few weeks later, and by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan. I said, "Are we still going to war with Iraq?" And he said, "Oh, it's worse than that." He reached over on his desk. He picked up a piece of paper. And he said, "I just got this down from upstairs" -- meaning the Secretary of Defense's office -- "today." And he said, "This is a memo that describes how we're going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran." I said, "Is it classified?" He said, "Yes, sir." I said, "Well, don't show it to me." And I saw him a year or so ago, and I said, "You remember that?" He said, "Sir, I didn't show you that memo! I didn't show it to you!"

General Wesley Clark: Wars Were Planned - Seven Countries In Five Years - YouTube


So all these were hoaxes. Arab spring, Libya regime change, Syria unrest….. all done by the CIA for the war plan of the US planned.

US and Zionist thugs murder people of Syria and claim that Syrian army "killed them"

US and Zionist thugs murder people of Syria and claim that Syrian army "killed them"

Rebels threaten to storm 2 Syrian Christian towns

By By BASSEM MROUE | Associated Press – 12/22/2012

BEIRUT (AP) — Rebels have threated to storm two predominantly Christian towns in central Syria if residents do not "evict" government troops they say are using the towns as a base to attack nearby areas.

Rebels threaten to storm 2 Syrian Christian towns - Yahoo! News

Syria rebels 'beheaded a Christian and fed him to the dogs' as fears grow over Islamist atrocities

Christian Andrei Arbashe, 38, was kidnapped and beheaded by rebel fighters in northern town of Ras Al-Ayn on the Turkish border

News came as pro-government forces celebrated their victory against rebels near Aleppo Airport



By Nick Fagge



PUBLISHED:19:41 EST, 30 December 2012



Syrian rebels beheaded a Christian man and fed his body to dogs, according to a nun who says the West is ignoring atrocities committed by Islamic extremists.



The nun said taxi driver Andrei Arbashe, 38, was kidnapped after his brother was heard complaining that fighters against the ruling regime behaved like bandits.



She said his headless corpse was found by the side of the road, surrounded by hungry dogs. He had recently married and was soon to be a father.



Read more: Syria rebels 'beheaded a Christian and fed him to the dogs' as fears grow over Islamist atrocities | Mail Online

Katsung, I feel for you, I really do. And I don't condone persecution or mayhem in any part of the world for any reason. But if you want America to step in the answer is....we're tired. We've just come off the longest war ever fought by our country. We lost trillions of dollars worth of treasure and thousands of lives. We have nothing to show for it. Any time we intervene, we find that the people we were trying to help have banded together with the ones that hate us and they all despise us now.

We just can't seem to win by being the world's policeman. Maybe the Syrian Christians will have to fight back themselves. Sorry about that.

From what I have picked up from the miasma we call todays media the Christians are fighting back when and where they can. Many of them have volunteered to fight in the Syrian army, many have fled to Turkey, Russia, Cyprus, Lebanon, Crete and other places not to mention western Syria. There are Christian militias in about every Christian enclave still there that work with Alawites and others, even the Kurds. Sadly they don't have a lot of power and there have been massacres and other atrocities all over. I do suspect that these Christian militias are not innocent either but then this has become war of the worst kind.

And for Katsung. I am sickened by what my country is supporting. From where I stand it goes against everything the flag stands for, everything good some of us still have in us. Shameful. I wish you and yours the best.

Syrian Rebels Ransack Christian Churches



NATO-backed thugs desecrate places of worship



Paul Joseph Watson

Infowars.com

Wednesday, June 27, 2012

Shocking images have emerged which show the aftermath of Christian churches ransacked by NATO-backed Syrian rebels, illustrating once again how western powers are supporting Muslim extremists in their bid to achieve regime change in the middle east.



A photograph provided to us by a Christian woman in Homs, scene of some of the bloodiest clashes of the conflict, shows a member of the Free Syrian Army posing with a looted Catholic cross in one hand and a gun in the other while wearing a priest’s robe.

» Syrian Rebels Ransack Christian Churches Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

Syrian rebels burn and plunder religious sites – Human Rights Watch.

RT.com

23 January, 2013, 19:49

Syrian rebels have looted and burned minority religious sites in Northern Syria, US-based Human Rights Watch says. The attacks highlight the increasingly sectarian nature of the conflict as the bloodshed continues unabated.

The three incidents took place in November and December of last year in religiously mixed areas.

Rebels looted two Christian churches in separate villages in the relatively peaceful western governorate of Latakia, local witnesses told the rights watchdog.