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Two previous trials both not guilty verdicts.

No new evidence.

No new forensics.

No new witness's.

Monumental balls up of the entire Investigation by police fro the start.

Third time around.... guilty.

What do you think ?

Doreen Lawrence: convictions are no cause for celebration | UK news | guardian.co.uk

I was born and brought up in Eltham, so have followed the case through out the years with concern.

I can't see how they could ever get an unbiased verdict.

I remember seeing them growling and kicking out when leaving an inquest, I recall the widely seen covert police video of them in a flat, acting out what they would do with the n**gers in Lewisham with graphic images of knife and stamping and colourful language.

I am glad someone has been convicted, but it still leaves a strange taste and a lot of concerns about the double jeopardy changes in law that have made it possible.

The only people who have come through with any dignity have been the parents, and for them it has cost them dearly.

I don't understand this article or the laws that convicted these two people.

A private firm convicted these people .....I'm not good with that . Does this mean that anyone who is not convicted of a crime will be eventually be convicted because of individual or public pressure? You can change laws but you cant change public opinion on race matters .

What are the particulars of this case . I saw that some covert operation had filmed the teens talking about it? ro ? I don't understand that part.

Bruv;1380249 wrote: I was born and brought up in Eltham, so have followed the case through out the years with concern.

I can't see how they could ever get an unbiased verdict.

I remember seeing them growling and kicking out when leaving an inquest, I recall the widely seen covert police video of them in a flat, acting out what they would do with the n**gers in Lewisham with graphic images of knife and stamping and colourful language.

I am glad someone has been convicted, but it still leaves a strange taste and a lot of concerns about the double jeopardy changes in law that have made it possible.

The only people who have come through with any dignity have been the parents, and for them it has cost them dearly.


I am similar to you.

My humble opinion for what It's worth is this..... It's most likely that the two convicted today were there on the night or at least knows who put the knife In him..... that does not make It murder In any book. It's highly likely they had racial tendencies and were bigots but that does not make them guilty of Murder.

I think the most outrageous part for me In this trial was that It came to light there were no safeguards for cross contamination of fibres and DNA. The victems clothes were stored In the same room as the alleged ....so when you are talking about one single fibre or a miniscule drop of blood the mere fact that there COULD have been cross contamination gives probable doubt. Even more shocking was a forensic scientist who had been working on the victems clothing one day then went on to call at one of the accussed homes to collect his clothing that same day. When the Inspector In charge of the Initial Investigation was asked In court what precautions were In place to secure against cross crontamination, he said ... 'None'.

Now I will write something that I will no doubt be lambasted for here but I speak my mind.

If this was a white teenager stabbed In London and not one but two trials had found the accussed not guilty, I doubt you would never hear of It again.

I am not In agreement that his Mother never gave up for Justice. This whole thing became extremely political because she accussed the police of being racist and forced enquiry after enquiry even bringing about the change of the double Jeopardy law. She had not one but two trials... why did she not accept the Jury's verdict?

It all leaves me with an uncomfortable feeling of appeasement rather than justice...

Now they are going hell for leather for anyone associated with the two convicted.

There Is no doubt this gang was a nasty lot but I do not feel this Is justice and I hope they appeal.

Their faces have been plastered over newspapers and tv for 18 years. Even their parents have publically been called liars.

fuzzywuzzy;1380264 wrote: I don't understand this article or the laws that convicted these two people.

A private firm convicted these people .....I'm not good with that . Does this mean that anyone who is not convicted of a crime will be eventually be convicted because of individual or public pressure? You can change laws but you cant change public opinion on race matters .

What are the particulars of this case . I saw that some covert operation had filmed the teens talking about it? ro ? I don't understand that part.


I will try and give a simple summary from my own recollections, somebody may come up with better details.

Two black teenagers were set upon by at least five white youths, one was fatally stabbed and died within 15 minutes on the side of the road. The police immediately thought it was a black on black crime, no medical aid was administered at the scene, and the assailants were not immediately pursued.

Over the following couple of weeks, after anonymous callers naming the five white youths the police began to investigate their involvement. The police were subsequently found to be inefficient and supposedly racist in the course of the investigation. A parent of one of the alleged attackers was supposedly getting advanced knowledge of any police action, the police charges were dropped by the Crown Prosecution for lack of evidence . A later private prosecution was brought on behalf of the family which collapsed also.

There then followed a public enquiry where the police and the way the case was run was castigated and new rules were urgently brought in to sort out police procedure.

So now 18 years afterwards and the scientific improvements in forensic testing etc. two of the original five white youths have been convicted, and are going to receive sentence tomorrow. Apparently based on the situation back then (according to the news tonight) sentenced as youths might have been if they had been convicted at the first trial.



A link to the timeline of events

oscar;1380269 wrote:

If this was a white teenager stabbed In London and not one but two trials had found the accused not guilty, I doubt you would never hear of It again.
Was a 'Not guilty' verdict brought in ?



I am not In agreement that his Mother never gave up for Justice. This whole thing became extremely political because she accused the police of being racist and forced enquiry after enquiry even bringing about the change of the double Jeopardy law. She had not one but two trials... why did she not accept the Jury's verdict?
It became political because it was political, it became racial because it was racial. I do have reservations about the reversal of the double jeopardy ruling, which could be good or bad, depending on how it is used and the safeguards in place.



It all leaves me with an uncomfortable feeling of appeasement rather than justice...




It makes me feel uncomfortable because it seems like the consolation prize, given ungraciously just to get the family to shut up.

And thats not justice as I see it.

Bruv;1380281 wrote: Was a 'Not guilty' verdict brought in ?

It became political because it was political, it became racial because it was racial. I do have reservations about the reversal of the double jeopardy ruling, which could be good or bad, depending on how it is used and the safeguards in place.



It makes me feel uncomfortable because it seems like the consolation prize, given ungraciously just to get the family to shut up.

And thats not justice as I see it.
A Consolation prize with every possibility two Innocent men are behind bars?

I also watched the doco tonight Bruv and surely the question must now be raised.... Would Stephen Lawrence have lived If the police given medical treatment at the scene?

It hasn't shut the family up has It ? Now the Mother Is talking about getting the rest of the group.... I don't think she will ever let go.

I am hoping and assuming that British Justice has got it right......at last.

The consolation prize is in the timing, if it is a victory it seems empty after 18 years.

It actually amazed me no one leaned over the guy to find out what the problem might be, even the crying god squad devotee who held his hand telling him he was loved, did not investigate the pool of blood.

If police can now administer instant medical aid under such circumstances now, everybody wins.

Bruv;1380284 wrote: I am hoping and assuming that British Justice has got it right......at last.

The consolation prize is in the timing, if it is a victory it seems empty after 18 years.

It actually amazed me no one leaned over the guy to find out what the problem might be, even the crying god squad devotee who held his hand telling him he was loved, did not investigate the pool of blood.

If police can now administer instant medical aid under such circumstances now, everybody wins. Yes I noticed the God Squad seeming to exult themselves with their actions but for goodness sake... It was 18 years ago not the Bronze age... Someone could have done something to Investigate the bleed point and stem the blood.

Did I get this right In the doco.... On the convicted clothes 18 years ago, no Forensic or DNA evidence was found.

After 18 years of their clothes being stored In the same room as the Victems blood soaked shirt they find new DNA evidence?

In court this should have been dismissed as cross contamination surely ?

Forensic science has improved, hence the finding of the microscopic blood spatter.

The Expert in the program said it couldn't have been later contamination, due to it being embedded into the fibres, and not as the defence claimed contaminated while doing other tests.

I think in the original investigation the police were a bit lackadaisical to put it politely and this would have all gone away quietly were it not for the parents. London police could be fairly aggressive in their dealings with the public and some were undoubtedly racist. On one occasion my wife was waiting on a bus with some of her school pupils when a police car pulled up and they started demanding to know what they were all doing and where they were going. A group of kids - with teachers present - on a school trip being hassled in a most offensive manner because most of them happened to be coloured.

gmc;1380351 wrote: I think in the original investigation the police were a bit lackadaisical to put it politely and this would have all gone away quietly were it not for the parents. London police could be fairly aggressive in their dealings with the public and some were undoubtedly racist. On one occasion my wife was waiting on a bus with some of her school pupils when a police car pulled up and they started demanding to know what they were all doing and where they were going. A group of kids - with teachers present - on a school trip being hassled in a most offensive manner because most of them happened to be coloured. I think It was through the Lawrence enquiry that the Met was labelled 'Institutionally Racist'.... Those old enough to remember that, I am sure use It to their advantage at times.

The monumental balls up of the entire Investigation by the police does not surprise me at all but I find the mere concept of police forensics being carried out by private companies all competing for business rather worrying.

oscar;1380355 wrote: I think It was through the Lawrence enquiry that the Met was labelled 'Institutionally Racist'.... Those old enough to remember that, I am sure use It to their advantage at times.

The monumental balls up of the entire Investigation by the police does not surprise me at all but I find the mere concept of police forensics being carried out by private companies all competing for business rather worrying.


Most everybody is some sort of 'ist' or has an 'ism' (with apologies to Maureen Lipman)

An institution like the old boys club Met most surely had all the symptoms, and is still in denial.

'Playing the black card' is still a useful and powerful lever and is used by many, and the fear of being accused of being racist is like a double bluff, you lose by default either way.

Racism is still alive and well, or at least it's affects.

I don't believe it will be eradicated any time soon unfortunately, but one can dream.

hi oscar my apologies it appears i,ve jumped all over your thread with one of my own

but heres my opinion from my column

now please allow me to crave your indulgence

what if the situation was reversed and a black man killed a white teenager would the case be reopened after 19 years ... NO

would it have been such a high profile case... NO

and what right has m lud got to tell scotland yard to find the other three NONE ... this is two tier justice on the orders of a politically correct government foisting multiculutualism on us and as a PC publicity stunt as the political elite are terrified of a repeat of the london riots or the brixton riots where black feral youths went on the rampage.

these same black youths who instead of being in jail for carrying knives rioting,looting escape with police cautions for the london riots.

these same blacks who escape with a smack on wrist for an unproved racist attack on a white girl but this didnt get the same amount of publicity as the stephen lawrence case.

one commenter even wrote there are a large enclave of BNP in eltham which is typical blame the BNP for the killing .

now im not racist or anti black but justice must be the same for all regardless of the colour of your skin

and clodhopper has accused me on my column of being racist and anti black because i support the BNP

Here's why:

Griffin in quotes



On the Holocaust



I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that 6 million Jews were gassed and cremated or turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also once held that the earth is flat… I have reached the conclusion that the ‘extermination’ tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter-day witch-hysteria.”



On Race



Without the White race, nothing matters. [Other right-wing parties] believe that the answer to the race question is integration and a futile attempt to create ‘Black Britons’, while we affirm that non-Whites have no place here at all and will not rest until every last one has left our land.”



On power



When the crunch comes, power is the product of force and will, not of rational debate. We have to have a body of trained young men capable of defending our organisation. If people come to crack our heads we will break theirs.”



On Adolf Hitler’s Mein Kampf



The chapter I most enjoyed was the one on propaganda and organisation – there were some really useful ideas there.”

Clodhopper;1380442 wrote: Here's why:

Griffin in quotes


Me and Nick on one of our nights out.... :sneaky::sneaky:

Attached files

Utterly disgusting.

Clodhopper;1380487 wrote: Utterly disgusting. I'm seeing him next Monday.... I'll give him your regards xxxxx

Oh joy.

You mean I can actually get at him direct through you? That explains a few things.

Clodhopper;1380497 wrote: Oh joy.

You mean I can actually get at him direct through you? That explains a few things. And you seriously believe that anything you have to say Is of Interest or Importance to myself or Nick Griffin ?????????????



You're more deluded than I first believed.

And you seriously believe that anything you have to say Is of Interest or Importance to myself or Nick Griffin


If I was neither of interest nor importance to you, you would ignore me. Since you do not ignore me and there are many posts from you attempting to argue with me I conclude I AM in fact of interest and importance you. Just not in a way you like.

And I can only be of interest to Nazi Nick if you've talked to him about me.

Clodhopper;1380676 wrote: If I was neither of interest nor importance to you, you would ignore me. Since you do not ignore me and there are many posts from you attempting to argue with me I conclude I AM in fact of interest and importance you. Just not in a way you like.

And I can only be of interest to Nazi Nick if you've talked to him about me.


Interested or have some Importance to me? No.... Just astounded by your bait racism and general cobblers that you write on a subject you know nothing of.

It's actually a great shame you are unlikely to meet Nick Griffin. You would be laughed out of the building. He doesn't suffer fools gladly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12645311

Nor does the elctorate

Just astounded by your bait racism and general cobblers that you write on a subject you know nothing of.




Hullo Pot, my name is Kettle.