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Men who 'control' their partners targeted in domestic violence crackdown | Mail Online

What I find alarming Is this taken from the article...

' Any changes will be mainly be aimed at men who abuse women and girls.'

Why ?

Another...

'Any new definition of domestic violence would also cover women who bully and abuse their male partners.'

Who would decide this alleged bullying ?

This Is bloody ridiculous and the State of England now tries to dictate who can do what In the privacy of their own home. I am not talking about physical abuse.

Who is going to police this so called Bullying ???

What a surprise that the loony leftie Clegg Is backing this.

Having seen a couple of relationships where a domineering partner has shattered the self confidence of their partner I can understand where they are coming from but I think it unworkable in practice. I have had one victim of abuse make excuses for her boyfriend that she provoked him by talking to another boy at a party when they were out tigether. A black eye is a pretty obvioius clue something is wrong the effect of constant denigration is harder to spot. What can you do when you see it happening?

oscar;1378305 wrote: Men who 'control' their partners targeted in domestic violence crackdown | Mail Online

What I find alarming Is this taken from the article...

' Any changes will be mainly be aimed at men who abuse women and girls.'

Why ?

Another...

'Any new definition of domestic violence would also cover women who bully and abuse their male partners.'

Who would decide this alleged bullying ?

This Is bloody ridiculous and the State of England now tries to dictate who can do what In the privacy of their own home. I am not talking about physical abuse.

Who is going to police this so called Bullying ???

What a surprise that the loony leftie Clegg Is backing this.

Read more: Men who 'control' their partners targeted in domestic violence crackdown | Mail Online








It's important to note that the article states

'A government-agreed definition of domestic violence already exists. This describes it as ‘any incident of threatening behaviour, violence or abuse (psychological, physical, sexual financial or emotional) between adults who are or have been intimate partners or family members, regardless of gender or sexuality’.

But ministers fear the police, councils and government agencies are not applying this rigorously enough and will consult on whether there should be a new legal definition and how it should be phrased.'

I don't see what the problem is, or your point really. The police don't take seriously claims of being controlled by a partner (be they male or female). The sad thing is unless you have bruises to show a partner is violent no one really takes any notice of mental abuse inflicted within households. If more victims were educated to the fact that no one should exercise control over them, and they then know they have the back up of the authorities they may be more inclined to leave.

I'm shocked to think you don't think the domestic violence laws need looking at and updating, emotional abuse needs bringing to the forefront.

This Is bloody ridiculous and the State of England now tries to dictate who can do what In the privacy of their own home. I am not talking about physical abuse.


Are you seriously suggesting that people should be allowed to abuse one another within their own four walls and get away with it? There has to be something missing from your sentence above :-2

Betty Boop;1378317 wrote: It's important to note that the article states

'A government-agreed definition of domestic violence already exists. This describes it as ‘any incident of threatening behaviour, violence or abuse (psychological, physical, sexual financial or emotional) between adults who are or have been intimate partners or family members, regardless of gender or sexuality’.

But ministers fear the police, councils and government agencies are not applying this rigorously enough and will consult on whether there should be a new legal definition and how it should be phrased.'

I don't see what the problem is, or your point really. The police don't take seriously claims of being controlled by a partner (be they male or female). The sad thing is unless you have bruises to show a partner is violent no one really takes any notice of mental abuse inflicted within households. If more victims were educated to the fact that no one should exercise control over them, and they then know they have the back up of the authorities they may be more inclined to leave.

I'm shocked to think you don't think the domestic violence laws need looking at and updating, emotional abuse needs bringing to the forefront.



Are you seriously suggesting that people should be allowed to abuse one another within their own four walls and get away with it? There has to be something missing from your sentence above :-2
Look at the first paragraph of the article again.

Men accused of ‘bullying or abusing’ their wives could face criminal charges under new domestic violence laws.

It could mean prosecution for husbands who treat their wives in a controlling way but do not assault them physically.



So, I'll ask again.... who exactly Is going to police this?

oscar;1378318 wrote: Look at the first paragraph of the article again.

Men accused of ‘bullying or abusing’ their wives could face criminal charges under new domestic violence laws.

It could mean prosecution for husbands who treat their wives in a controlling way but do not assault them physically.



So, I'll ask again.... who exactly Is going to police this?


The domestic violence officers obviously! They are already there doing a job but only one where they take photographic evidence into court, emotional abuse is ignored, it counts for nothing. Believe me, I can't even begin to decide which is worse, being beaten physically or being mentally ground down to the lowest you could ever be. I would happily have taken my ex to court if it were an option six years ago, maybe then I would have been given the marital home and provided with the police protection I needed to be safe from him. I wasn't entitled to a police panic button because there was no evidence he had physically abused me, yet I lived in constant fear that he would come and get me because I'd actually left. It wouldn't take much to gather evidence from family, friends and work colleagues to realise I'd completely changed from the person I was before meeting him. I wouldn't want him banged up in prison, I'd want him on anger management courses and some sort of counselling to adjust his abusive behaviour. Interestingly, bullies have their own sets of problems that need addressing, both sides need some sort of constructive help to stop the cycle of abuse as well.

You missed a bit....

This Is bloody ridiculous and the State of England now tries to dictate who can do what In the privacy of their own home. I am not talking about physical abuse.


Are you seriously suggesting that people should be allowed to abuse one another within their own four walls and get away with it? There has to be something missing from your sentence above :-2

HHmmm ....Oscar the police will police it.

here's something to think about . The other week I had to go to the police because it was suggested to me that a certain incident warranted an IVO.

I went to the police station on the advice of four friends that were worried about me. I was just generally pissed off but others were worried (could see a pattern I suppose)

Okay here's what happened. I was coming up my driveway in the car and saw someone at the gate. Thought at first it was the farmer yarding his cows. It was actually an ex boyfriend...who I told summarily to piss off about a month ago. I got to the gate and got out of my car to open it. he offered to open it but I said "no it's alright I've got it. . I knew something didn't seem right but couldn't figure out what. He seemed calm. I drove through the gate adn he insisted he wanted two minutes to talk to me . I hesitated because we'd been through all this before but relented, I said "okay two minutes" thinking I'll finally get this out of the way . He spoke to me and I listened ...I again said I was sorry and it was over....His responce. "NO it's not" ....Okay first red flag. He kept trying to hug me but I folded my arms to make it very clear I didn't want him doing that ....didn't make a difference (another red flag because he wouldn't take notice of my body language)

I then tried to leave but he'd postioned himself at the driver door I tried to calmly get around him but he wouldn't move ......second red flag.

Then he tried to force a few grand into my hand ....I took two steps back ...he even said "You don't have to back away" I just want to give you money . I told him I don't want his money. Third red flag because he's acknowledged I'm uncomfortable now.

Then I realised what was wrong with the situation ... I asked him where his car was. He said "I parked it down the road because I knew if you saw my car coming up the drive you'd locked up the house and pretend you weren't home." .........and this is the biggest red flag because he was actually admitting he'd hidden his car and he was going to sneak up to the house to catch me off guard. Not once did he raise his voice. Not once did he talk abusively to me . But it's still intimidation and bullying because I had to modify my behaviour to stay safe. I had to allow him to keep going in his way because of the position I was in.

When I told this to the police officer he immediately began getting things ready for an IVO . I refrained from going that far and asked if they could have a word with him instead ...They said they would but one of the things he did is an inditable offence . Not allowing me to get into my car is false imprisonment. He stopped me from leaving a place I wanted to leave, he detained me .

Oscar there are many small things you can do to another person other than hitting them . And they all carry penalties . if it's not being applied by the local fuzz because it's just too hard then there is a serious issue.

I know all about domestic violence thanks to my ex husband who was a violent, physcotic, alcoholic thug. Even when he was arrested which was an occupational hazzard In our house at the time, the local police never came In numbers under 6 of them. In 13 years I was hospitalised over 30 times ranging from concussion to broken limbs. Although that Is all a far and distant memory now thank god, In those days, we had no laws at all and It was put down as 'A domestic dispute' and police were loathed to Intervene.

So I don't need a lecture about domestic violence nor Intimidation.

All I am saying here Is that I don't believe this Is for the better.

I am not talking about the positions BB found herself In because I have been there too. Someone can strike fear Into your soul without even being there but In most cases, there are already laws In place such as Harassment, Malicious communication, stalking, and public order offences which a section 5 of the public order act includes 'Putting someone In mortal fear of violence'..... but, I can see this getting stupid with a wife wanting a husband arrested because he won't give her more money.... there will be cases where some will take advantage.

oscar;1378322 wrote: I know all about domestic violence thanks to my ex husband who was a violent, physcotic, alcoholic thug. Even when he was arrested which was an occupational hazzard In our house at the time, the local police never came In numbers under 6 of them. In 13 years I was hospitalised over 30 times ranging from concussion to broken limbs. Although that Is all a far and distant memory now thank god, In those days, we had no laws at all and It was put down as 'A domestic dispute' and police were loathed to Intervene.

So I don't need a lecture about domestic violence nor Intimidation.

All I am saying here Is that I don't believe this Is for the better.

I am not talking about the positions BB found herself In because I have been there too. Someone can strike fear Into your soul without even being there but In most cases, there are already laws In place such as Harassment, Malicious communication, stalking, and public order offences which a section 5 of the public order act includes 'Putting someone In mortal fear of violence'..... but, I can see this getting stupid with a wife wanting a husband arrested because he won't give her more money.... there will be cases where some will take advantage.


errmm, the fact that the police are loathe to intervene on a domestic dispute still stands today and given that lack of intervention all the other laws you mention above are absolutely useless for cases of domestic violence!

I'm pretty sure the police can distinguish between a disgruntled wife seeking petty revenge and a wife that is kept short of money on purpose as a means of control.

Betty Boop;1378323 wrote: errmm, the fact that the police are loathe to intervene on a domestic dispute still stands today and given that lack of intervention all the other laws you mention above are absolutely useless for cases of domestic violence!

I'm pretty sure the police can distinguish between a disgruntled wife seeking petty revenge and a wife that is kept short of money on purpose as a means of control.


Well back In those days, I was told by the police that they were loathed to Intervene because all they had In the way of charges was actual assault and due to lack of laws It often meant that the women withdrew the complaint before they even got to court either because the woman went back to him or Intimidation thus resulting In a heck of a lot of wasted police time. The laws simply were just not there for the police to use. You also had a situation back then where women with children would have no-where to go If they left the husband and no money.

oscar;1378324 wrote: Well back In those days, I was told by the police that they were loathed to Intervene because all they had In the way of charges was actual assault and due to lack of laws It often meant that the women withdrew the complaint before they even got to court either because the woman went back to him or Intimidation thus resulting In a heck of a lot of wasted police time. The laws simply were just not there for the police to use. You also had a situation back then where women with children would have no-where to go If they left the husband and no money.


Nothing has changed, still the same crappy situations apart from going to a refuge which means leaving your home town, your family and starting again on your own. It's not good enough protection, school bullies get dealt with more swiftly. I say a big YES to any reforms for domestic violence laws, it's high time it all got taken seriously.

Betty Boop;1378325 wrote: Nothing has changed, still the same crappy situations apart from going to a refuge which means leaving your home town, your family and starting again on your own. It's not good enough protection, school bullies get dealt with more swiftly. I say a big YES to any reforms for domestic violence laws, it's high time it all got taken seriously.


I strongly disagree and there Is far too much on the net concerning the changes In criminal acts relating to domestic abuse over the past 30 years to post up.

Society has changed over the past 30 years and womens rights have changed. Gone are the days when a man got a job over a woman even In the church and Parliament as examples. We have screamed 'women's rights' from the rooftops until we have got equal pay, equal rights etc etc. Yet when It comes to men In a relationship, we expect them to treat us like some delicate little flower.

Gone are the days where the police could not act unless the woman testified In court against him. Gone are the days where a woman and her children had nowhere to go.

Any woman leaving her husband these days with children will be put up In a hotel until a house becomes available. There Is a minefield of support charities, hostels and goodness knows what else available. There are restraining orders, new stalking laws, harassment laws etc etc etc.

oscar;1378326 wrote: I strongly disagree and there Is far too much on the net concerning the changes In criminal acts relating to domestic abuse over the past 30 years to post up.

Society has changed over the past 30 years and womens rights have changed. Gone are the days when a man got a job over a woman even In the church and Parliament as examples. We have screamed 'women's rights' from the rooftops until we have got equal pay, equal rights etc etc. Yet when It comes to men In a relationship, we expect them to treat us like some delicate little flower.

Gone are the days where the police could not act unless the woman testified In court against him. Gone are the days where a woman and her children had nowhere to go.

Any woman leaving her husband these days with children will be put up In a hotel until a house becomes available. There Is a minefield of support charities, hostels and goodness knows what else available. There are restraining orders, new stalking laws, harassment laws etc etc etc.


Bollocks! I'm not spouting womens rights, I'm all for the individual that is being abused being allowed to speak up and be noticed be they male or female.

Take a look around you, a long hard look, there are not equal rights within this society everywhere at all.

Six years ago because I walked out of the marital home I made myself and my children HOMELESS, no one housed me, the council totally refused to accept me and my children as homeless. If I had shown up on the councils doorstep battered and bruised maybe they would have listened, emotional abuse didn't count for a thing when it came to filling in their forms.

Not once have I mentioned needing to be treated like a delicate wallflower either. Exactly how do you bring stalking orders to the person you have to live with because you have no other choice, you can't claim harassment in that situation either! Stalking and harassment orders only come into play once you are out of the situation, whilst you are in the situation there is no protection and there is no help from the authorities available to help you get out because the police will not intervene.

The charities you mention will help guide you and counsel you but they can't protect you.

Betty Boop;1378328 wrote: Bollocks! I'm not spouting womens rights, I'm all for the individual that is being abused being allowed to speak up and be noticed be they male or female.

Take a look around you, a long hard look, there are not equal rights within this society everywhere at all.

Six years ago because I walked out of the marital home I made myself and my children HOMELESS, no one housed me, the council totally refused to accept me and my children as homeless. If I had shown up on the councils doorstep battered and bruised maybe they would have listened, emotional abuse didn't count for a thing when it came to filling in their forms.

Not once have I mentioned needing to be treated like a delicate wallflower either. Exactly how do you bring stalking orders to the person you have to live with because you have no other choice, you can't claim harassment in that situation either! Stalking and harassment orders only come into play once you are out of the situation, whilst you are in the situation there is no protection and there is no help from the authorities available to help you get out because the police will not intervene.

The charities you mention will help guide you and counsel you but they can't protect you.


Betty, I am on your side.

However, If In your situation 6 years ago, how exactly do you think this new law would have helped you back then?

oscar;1378329 wrote: Betty, I am on your side.

However, If In your situation 6 years ago, how exactly do you think this new law would have helped you back then?


It would have given recognition that emotional domestic violence is as serious as physical, the police no doubt will have still declined to actually intervene in any incident but once I'd actually run from the marital home in fear I may have been provided with a panic button which would have reassured mine and my children's safety. The council would have had to recognise me as a victim of domestic violence and would have had a duty to provide emergency housing until I was able to get my affairs in order and sort myself out. The judge who allowed an anti molestation order to be served on my ex for one week only would have granted extra time on that order had he taken emotional violence more seriously. As all the charities will confirm, once a victim has left the bully they are more at risk than ever of serious violent attacks from their partner, I actually didn't know that until well after I'd left, but I still lived in fear for over a year after leaving that he would come after me. He still abuses now from beyond divorce and there's not a thing I can do about it. Why should he be allowed to do that all these years on.

How about a male point of view ?

When the divorce was under way with my ex, my lawyer told me she was fearful of her safety.

I was shocked and amazed, having never ever raised a hand or threatened her in any way.

The incident that she based her accusation on, when relayed to me was true, but blown out of all proportion.

I was doing some DIY, lining a hatch between kitchen and dining room during an argument and for a second I flashed and jumped through the hatch and confronted her 'aggressively', never raised a hand or touched her, and that was the only ever incident, but it loomed large in subsequent proceedings.

So I do have some misgivings as to how some events could be misconstrued.

Bruv;1378332 wrote: How about a male point of view ?

When the divorce was under way with my ex, my lawyer told me she was fearful of her safety.

I was shocked and amazed, having never ever raised a hand or threatened her in any way.

The incident that she based her accusation on, when relayed to me was true, but blown out of all proportion.

I was doing some DIY, lining a hatch between kitchen and dining room during an argument and for a second I flashed and jumped through the hatch and confronted her 'aggressively', never raised a hand or touched her, and that was the only ever incident, but it loomed large in subsequent proceedings.

So I do have some misgivings as to how some events could be misconstrued.


I can understand those misgivings but no one should turn a blind eye to the hundreds of victims who are trapped. One incident does not mean there is domestic violence occurring within a relationship, but when you have a catalogue of incidents such as being tipped out of a bed whilst fast asleep, being dumped by the side of the road at 31 weeks pregnant, being locked in your own home and the phone being removed so you can't get help and loads more threats being issued at you constantly there has to be some sort of help available for genuine victims.

Betty Boop;1378347 wrote: I can understand those misgivings but no one should turn a blind eye to the hundreds of victims who are trapped. One incident does not mean there is domestic violence occurring within a relationship, but when you have a catalogue of incidents such as being tipped out of a bed whilst fast asleep, being dumped by the side of the road at 31 weeks pregnant, being locked in your own home and the phone being removed so you can't get help and loads more threats being issued at you constantly there has to be some sort of help available for genuine victims.


I am not disputing that there are genuine victims of emotional abuse but I am talking about these proposals for law change that I believe are un-policable and unmanageable.

In reference to your post prior to this, what you are saying Is more that society and our services need to change. I agree.....for genuine victims but you will have a minefield of complications If It's made law.

For one...In most cases, emotional abuse Is not carried out In front of an army of witness's. It's done over the phone or In the home. Where the police would be looking for a conviction, It would be a case of her word against his.... Unprovable In a court of law.

Where you start re-housing women because they have claimed emotional abuse, what is the precedent? How do you distinguish between a woman or man guilding the lily and a genuine victem?

I know a man who has been denied access to his child for two years because he once shouted at his partner. I know another woman who winds her husband up, goading him until he explodes In temper and then looks for sympathy. Where do you draw the line? Should a woman jump the housing queue because she's wound her husband up, baiting and goading him for years but then complains that he's shouted at her? It would be a very unfair system and certainly you will have many exploit the laws.

oscar;1378350 wrote: I am not disputing that there are genuine victims of emotional abuse but I am talking about these proposals for law change that I believe are un-policable and unmanageable.

In reference to your post prior to this, what you are saying Is more that society and our services need to change. I agree.....for genuine victims but you will have a minefield of complications If It's made law.

For one...In most cases, emotional abuse Is not carried out In front of an army of witness's. It's done over the phone or In the home. Where the police would be looking for a conviction, It would be a case of her word against his.... Unprovable In a court of law.

Where you start re-housing women because they have claimed emotional abuse, what is the precedent? How do you distinguish between a woman or man guilding the lily and a genuine victem?

I know a man who has been denied access to his child for two years because he once shouted at his partner. I know another woman who winds her husband up, goading him until he explodes In temper and then looks for sympathy. Where do you draw the line? Should a woman jump the housing queue because she's wound her husband up, baiting and goading him for years but then complains that he's shouted at her? It would be a very unfair system and certainly you will have many exploit the laws.


So you propose that because there are those who abuse the system it means that the genuine victims can never achieve the protection they need, all because some people cry wolf. Where's the fairness in that, we'll just ignore all the victims shall we, tell them it's their imagination, or even better let's tell them it's all their fault they deserve it, after all that's what the bully is telling them anyway we as a society may as well just back it up.

I said before, it takes a catalogue of events to build up for domestic violence to be confirmed, no there generally aren't any witnesses but there are family members and friends who often become concerned. These people generally know damn well something is going on and certainly in some cases the abuser becomes so used to exerting control they slip up and do display aggressive behaviour in front of others. Some are stupid enough to use facebook or to text threats, there's your hard evidence that at the moment can't actually be acted on. Domestic violence officers would have the responsibility of working out the genuine cases.

If the laws are changed the women wouldn't actually need re housing would they! They'd be safe to stay in their own homes with the children and the abuser would need to find their own accommodation. If someone is being abusive and the victim wants them to leave the property there is no way to get them out, the abuser isn't just going to walk out the door unless they're made to. The reality is that to get the abuser out takes months, it's a situation where the victim needs to be out of the house whilst the court procedures are going on, once the abuser has been removed, and this only seems to be happening in cases where children are involved and the victim can prove they are the main carer, the victim can return to their home but they're still not safe. They still have no extra protection from the abuser, and people wonder why so many victims stay with abusers, it's because sadly, they're actually safer staying where they are.

Betty Boop;1378351 wrote: So you propose that because there are those who abuse the system it means that the genuine victims can never achieve the protection they need, all because some people cry wolf. Where's the fairness in that, we'll just ignore all the victims shall we, tell them it's their imagination, or even better let's tell them it's all their fault they deserve it, after all that's what the bully is telling them anyway we as a society may as well just back it up.

I said before, it takes a catalogue of events to build up for domestic violence to be confirmed, no there generally aren't any witnesses but there are family members and friends who often become concerned. These people generally know damn well something is going on and certainly in some cases the abuser becomes so used to exerting control they slip up and do display aggressive behaviour in front of others. Some are stupid enough to use facebook or to text threats, there's your hard evidence that at the moment can't actually be acted on. Domestic violence officers would have the responsibility of working out the genuine cases.

If the laws are changed the women wouldn't actually need re housing would they! They'd be safe to stay in their own homes with the children and the abuser would need to find their own accommodation. If someone is being abusive and the victim wants them to leave the property there is no way to get them out, the abuser isn't just going to walk out the door unless they're made to. The reality is that to get the abuser out takes months, it's a situation where the victim needs to be out of the house whilst the court procedures are going on, once the abuser has been removed, and this only seems to be happening in cases where children are involved and the victim can prove they are the main carer, the victim can return to their home but they're still not safe. They still have no extra protection from the abuser, and people wonder why so many victims stay with abusers, it's because sadly, they're actually safer staying where they are.


I actually agree with all you say.

In my first marraige, we bought a house on the sea front overlooking the harbour and spent thousands even back then renovating It. It was a dream house with the lounge on the second floor so you overlooked the harbour. My family did a lot of the renovation work and I bought the furnature and fittings but I could not get him to leave. In the end, I had no choice but to leave my self with only my personal belongings. I had to live In one room before I could afford a deposit on somewhere decent and when I got the new house, I had to start from scratch with fixtures and furnature.



To me, the only way forward Is a change In authorities policy and maybe a new law where an abusive partner can be evicted from the property allowing the wife and children to stay but again that's open to mis-use.

Emotional blackmail and emotional abuse Is not something new. It's been hidden for decades within the confines of the four walls of a house.

How many men live In a loveless god forsaken marraige because the wife says ' Do what I want or I'll take the children'.... 'Leave me and you'll never see the children again'.. I know several men In that situation and It Is emotional abuse and blackmail.

Men get stuck in loveless marraiges where refusal of sex Is used as a bargaining tool along with the children because all husband Is to the woman Is a wage earner because they are too bone Idle to earn a living themselves and go It alone. It's not all down to men.

Funny how things turn up...

Friend of a friend of mine has just been beaten up for the nth time by her partner. Badly. I've seen pictures. Among other things he apparently stamped on her head and hit her with the iron. But she keeps refusing to take action against him. What can we do?

Typical effing badboy. Why DO women go for them?

Clodhopper;1378415 wrote: Funny how things turn up...

Friend of a friend of mine has just been beaten up for the nth time by her partner. Badly. I've seen pictures. Among other things he apparently stamped on her head and hit her with the iron. But she keeps refusing to take action against him. What can we do?

Typical effing badboy. Why DO women go for them?Often because the female has had "bad-boys" as part of their life prior to meeting the future partner. Oftentimes the violent partner was a family acquaintance of the father, brother, cousin or other close friend or relative. Drinking buddy, perhaps. Females trust the men in their lives to assist them in making these choices. In other cases, the marriage was formed by party-minded individuals where one eventually tries to grow out of the behavior and the other doesn't. What is interesting is that the brothers and fathers of these women more often than not refuse to stand up to the bully along with the abused. That's got to feel awfully lonely and frightening to the woman.

Ahso!;1378455 wrote: Often because the female has had "bad-boys" as part of their life prior to meeting the future partner. Oftentimes the violent partner was a family acquaintance of the father, brother, cousin or other close friend or relative. Drinking buddy, perhaps. Females trust the men in their lives to assist them in making these choices. In other cases, the marriage was formed by party-minded individuals where one eventually tries to grow out of the behavior and the other doesn't. What is interesting is that the brothers and fathers of these women more often than not refuse to stand up to the bully along with the abused. That's got to feel awfully lonely and frightening to the woman.


I have never read such rubbish.

Ahso!;1378455 wrote: Often because the female has had "bad-boys" as part of their life prior to meeting the future partner. Oftentimes the violent partner was a family acquaintance of the father, brother, cousin or other close friend or relative. Drinking buddy, perhaps. Females trust the men in their lives to assist them in making these choices. In other cases, the marriage was formed by party-minded individuals where one eventually tries to grow out of the behavior and the other doesn't. What is interesting is that the brothers and fathers of these women more often than not refuse to stand up to the bully along with the abused. That's got to feel awfully lonely and frightening to the woman.


Hmmm, my father, brother and uncles were never 'bad boys' but I ended up married to one. I don't recognise your bad boy being an acquaintance of the family theory at all either. Party-minded individuals lol what the hell are they? It doesn't describe me nor my ex husband, no one grew out of any behaviour. Maybe your theories ring true for domestic violence incidents you have witnessed but they have no bearing on the norm here. Abusers tend to be totally unknown to the family, they also generally take a while to start any form of abuse. Most display some sort of temper but initially it's not directed at their partner, here begins a long process of undermining the partner which generally goes unnoticed. As a victim you adjust to a life where you just accept blame for everything, it becomes a way of life and its usually been so gradually introduced to you that you don't even realise it's happening and that it's not right.

Families will notice a change in personality of the victim if they're observant. What they often don't do is guess what the problem is until it's all out in the open, then in retrospect they can look back and see the changes. There are precious few victims who confide in anyone about the abuse, remember they've been indoctrinated to think it's all their fault, they aren't about to tell other people when they believe it's all their own fault are they? Any family member that has managed to suss out the situation would actually never confront the abuser because they will realise that unless they get the victim out and somewhere safe she will be the one taking the blame for the relative 'knowing' something. Relatives may ask the victim what's happening only to find the victim will cover up and lie because her fear of the abuser is so huge she knows that if anything gets back to the abuser she will pay for it for sure. Threats are another part of domestic violence, 'if you tell anyone I will kill you' is an incredibly common threat.

In one hell of a lot of cases where the woman is the victim of domestic violence, the attacks be they physical or mental, escalate when the woman is actually pregnant or has given birth to the couples first child. I find it hard to comprehend that basically the abuser becomes jealous of their own child! At this point other threats come into play for the abuser to direct at the victim, such as 'you'll never see your children again if you leave me'. The last thing a woman wants at this stage is any family member interfering and causing trouble between her and the abuser.

You're right on the lonely and frightening part, as a victim you become isolated and daily life is carried out in fear. Once you realise that you shouldn't be living like this at all the shame hits you, that's another huge obstacle to get over too.

Clodhopper;1378415 wrote: Funny how things turn up...

Friend of a friend of mine has just been beaten up for the nth time by her partner. Badly. I've seen pictures. Among other things he apparently stamped on her head and hit her with the iron. But she keeps refusing to take action against him. What can we do?

Typical effing badboy. Why DO women go for them?


They're generally not bad at the start that's why. If she's not ready to leave then no one can make her. I hope your friend can be there for her no matter what, offer her a place to run if she ever wants to. The last thing this lady needs is to be cut off because friends dis-approve. Sadly there must still be some 'good' times that in her head balance out the 'bad'. Let's hope and pray that one day she will realise that she is actually worth more and she'll take some action.

Betty Boop;1378502 wrote: Hmmm, my father, brother and uncles were never 'bad boys' but I ended up married to one. I don't recognise your bad boy being an acquaintance of the family theory at all either. Party-minded individuals lol what the hell are they? It doesn't describe me nor my ex husband, no one grew out of any behaviour. Maybe your theories ring true for domestic violence incidents you have witnessed but they have no bearing on the norm here. Abusers tend to be totally unknown to the family, they also generally take a while to start any form of abuse. Most display some sort of temper but initially it's not directed at their partner, here begins a long process of undermining the partner which generally goes unnoticed. As a victim you adjust to a life where you just accept blame for everything, it becomes a way of life and its usually been so gradually introduced to you that you don't even realise it's happening and that it's not right.

Families will notice a change in personality of the victim if they're observant. What they often don't do is guess what the problem is until it's all out in the open, then in retrospect they can look back and see the changes. There are precious few victims who confide in anyone about the abuse, remember they've been indoctrinated to think it's all their fault, they aren't about to tell other people when they believe it's all their own fault are they? Any family member that has managed to suss out the situation would actually never confront the abuser because they will realise that unless they get the victim out and somewhere safe she will be the one taking the blame for the relative 'knowing' something. Relatives may ask the victim what's happening only to find the victim will cover up and lie because her fear of the abuser is so huge she knows that if anything gets back to the abuser she will pay for it for sure. Threats are another part of domestic violence, 'if you tell anyone I will kill you' is an incredibly common threat.

In one hell of a lot of cases where the woman is the victim of domestic violence, the attacks be they physical or mental, escalate when the woman is actually pregnant or has given birth to the couples first child. I find it hard to comprehend that basically the abuser becomes jealous of their own child! At this point other threats come into play for the abuser to direct at the victim, such as 'you'll never see your children again if you leave me'. The last thing a woman wants at this stage is any family member interfering and causing trouble between her and the abuser.

You're right on the lonely and frightening part, as a victim you become isolated and daily life is carried out in fear. Once you realise that you shouldn't be living like this at all the shame hits you, that's another huge obstacle to get over too.


And that Is the most sensible thing I've read.

I never said in my previous post that what I described was what all abuse resembles.

It's difficult to recognize abusive characteristics in a person when all of society is guilty of it on some level, whether it be in the school system, at home or otherwise. Many bullies are considered nice people most often, it's when the stakes get high and the pressure is on that the behavior escalates into outright violence for many.

I'm the youngest of seven and was born to 46 year old parents. When my mother informed my eldest brother she was pregnant with me he became angry and said he was embarrassed that his mother of that age was pregnant again, he abused me physically until I turned 20 and was capable of fighting back (he was 38 at that time). He was a former marine who did physical labor his entire life. He was extremely strong, my brother.

My father grew jealous of me also. If my dad's dinner was not ready when he arrived home from work he would say to my mother: "Robert's hungry, Marie!". If my parents fought, my father would come after me. He did that until one evening when I was 16 years old (he was 62) when he came after me and all I had to do was raise my hands in front of me and sent him flying into the television. My dad never raised a hand to me again, though he continued to try and bully me verbally.

It's fairly well known that one of the male children in a family may become the object of love to the mother if she holds resentment towards the father, my mother definitely did that with me, though I have no doubt that she didn't know what she was doing.

oscar;1378480 wrote: I have never read such rubbish.
oscar;1378504 wrote: And that Is the most sensible thing I've read.Makes you appear very defensive and in denial. That may not be correct, but it sure resembles it to the naked eye.

Ahso!;1378507 wrote: Makes you appear very defensive and in denial. That may not be correct, but it sure resembles it to the naked eye. I am just going by what you have written, You just do not seem to now what you are talking about.

Betty Boops post was spot on. You are just taking wild guess's

oscar;1378510 wrote: I am just going by what you have written, You just do not seem to now what you are talking about.

Betty Boops post was spot on. You are just taking wild guess'sIt's difficult to have an honest conversation with you, Oscar. If you recall (and my memory serves me properly) I said back in 2010 that you exhibited bullying tendencies and I asked you then who bullied you because it was a learned behavior. You flat out denied anything like that in your life, but now you inform the world that you were in fact a victim of domestic violence as you described earlier in this thread. Which is it? How does one know when you're being truthful?

eta: My original post referred to a specific type of relationship dynamic which Clod labeled as "badboy" and I'll admit my thoughts were triggered by both Clod's label as well as your experience as you described it.

BTW, I'm sorry this happened to both you and Betty, and anyone else who's been a victim of violence of any sort.

It's a variation of stolkholm syndrome. It's hard to walk away from a long term relationship. My wife knew one women who was regularly beaten by her husband when he was drunk. When asked why she didnlt leave sooner she said it's because the times in between he was a wonderful man, she eventually left when he was away on business because`when he was sober she was still in love with him. It's completely classless and has nothing to do with education levels, it's just as prevalent amongst middle class households when that came out in the research people found it hard to accept. On one level it seems irrational to stay in an abusive relationship on another it's understandable. Young girls mistake jealousy and controlling behaviour as being true love and affection rather than the warning it actually is.

The biggest change has actually been the economic freedom of a woman to leave a marriage and make her own living and the acceptance of her right to do so. but you still get pratts in the daily mail ranting on about single mothers and the decline of family life and moral values. The vast majority of single mothers are as the result of a spouse dying or of divorce but you wouldn't know that if you read some of the press. There was a lot of hostility to the setting up of women's shelters on the grounds that it would encourage more people to divorce instead of working through their differences, people didn't want women of that sort living next to them.

They're generally not bad at the start that's why. If she's not ready to leave then no one can make her. I hope your friend can be there for her no matter what, offer her a place to run if she ever wants to. The last thing this lady needs is to be cut off because friends dis-approve. Sadly there must still be some 'good' times that in her head balance out the 'bad'. Let's hope and pray that one day she will realise that she is actually worth more and she'll take some action.


I hope so. This isn't someone I know personally, so it's rather "distant" from me, but my friend is scared he will kill her - he's one of the drunken ones. This person seems almost a professional victim - her previous relationships have also apparently been abusive. It seems in her head (as gmc points out) she has accepted violence as love.

Crazy stuff. This is a very rich and successful businesswoman with literally millions to her name. Yet she seems totally helpless.

It is very hard to know what to do. There have been some wild conversations about eg kidnapping her and her son (no it's not going to happen), and the police have been informed (with the pictures) and have been to the address but while she refuses to co-operate they can't do anything. Other friends have (apparently) threatened to take the law into their own hands if he does it again, but he has done it again and we will see. I don't generally approve of vigilantism but spousebeating is pretty damn low and I can't say I'd shed a tear.

Yes, this person knows she can always run to my friend. I was hoping someone had a magic bullet, but we'll just have to do the best we can.

edit: Just to be clear about taking the law into their own hands, these other friends have threatened to beat him up.