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I was struck by the use of this phrase in another thread just now, in the light of the recent experience of a friend of mine. Before I go on, I should emphasise that I have a lot of respect for the police in general, but we should not forget that any organisation has its dodgy people.

Without going into the details of a complicated story, a friend of mind ended up on bail for a set of reasons you'd sympathise with if I told you. She's suffered from depression, sees a psychiatrist and is epileptic and needs heavy duty medication and had a really really bad 18 months (Despite this she is a bright ray of sunshine).

At the time she was due to report to the Police station for them to say whether they were going to charge her or not she had a doctor's appointment for 3pm and was told by the officer over the phone she'd be out again for the appointment and not to change or cancel because of her 1pm appointment with them.

She turned up at 1pm and was locked in a cell. No charges were brought and she was denied access to food and medication. After some hours she was so angry and frustrated she began banging her head on the wall (she has at no time claimed anyone hit her). At about 9pm she was let out and told there were no charges. She came round here and as you can imagine was in an absolute state.

Her Mum and her brother both complained and were told for some time that there was no record and no CCTV to suggest that my friend had ever been at the police station, and there was no record of any reason FOR her to be at the police staion.

Her brother is a police officer and says that is impossible. We know she went because she was taken there by her boyfriend who saw her go through the door into the bit of the police station the general public don't get into.

A day or so later we get an admission from the police that they have found the relevant records. Official complaints have been made and we'll see what happens.

The police are mostly decent. But they still need an eye kept on them.

All charges have, incidentally, been dropped.

There Is a lot that doesn't add up here and you won't like what I am going to say.

If your friend was on bail, then she has recently been arrested and bailed pending further enquiries. Once you have been arrested and bailed, the police can call you In any time they like for further questioning or while they put their case to the CPS. If the CPS had come back and said she was to be charged, they would have her In the station ready to formally charge her. What they don't do Is go to the CPS and then try to find you to charge you simply because many do a runner while on bail. They would have needed her In custody ready for the decision of the CPS. This Is why many people are arrested and released without charge.

What's the main beef here? That she missed an appointment? I'm afraid that's tough titty when you get yourself arrested. Arrested and on bail means the police proceedure Is that she would be placed In a cell while they got a decision from the CPS.

The police are grossly under-manned and If you have an appointment for 1 pm then there Is no guarantee that the officers dealing with that person Is not going to be called out on an emergency or they may have to wait several hours for the CPS to get back them. If you get yourself arrested then don't expect the police force to pander to you because you happen to have an appointment.

Every police station has CCTV on the main desk. If she was brought In to the main desk, they would have the CCTV. Then, she would have been taken down to the cells where she would be signed In by the desk Seargent. Here she would have been removed of her possessions such as mobile phone and every Item would be catalogued and she would have to sign to say this was correct. She would have been asked If she had any medical problems and these would have been recorded. She would also be given a copy of her bail sheet. The time she arrived would be entered Into the computer when she signed In with the desk Seargent and the time she left.

As for banging her head on the cell wall, the desk Seargent would be duty bound to check every cell regually and there Is an emergency button Inside the cell to call for help.

The proceedure she would have gone through when signed In by the Desk Seargent would not produce just one piece of paper but several to cover her custody so the chances of them all going missing are nil.

If the CPS finally came back and said no charges were being brought, then she would have been released without charge. The fact that she missed an appointment Is hard luck when you get yourself arrested.

Are you sure she has been entirely honest here?

Did she suffer a medical emergency due to not having her medication?

The only complaint she has here Is If the police held her for more than 24 hours without charge. Anything under that, she has no chance of any complaint being upheld.

We were very confused as to the complete denial she'd ever been there, which went on for more than 24 hours. I did wonder if she'd invented the whole thing. But three independent people saw her while in cells, one legal one psychiatric and I can't remember the third, plus her boyfriend saw her going in. She was definitely there and the police have now admitted it. And apologised.

We assumed she was going in to be charged or told no charges. What happened was she was held for 8 hours without being charged or told what was going on and was released at the end of it and told to go home.

During this time she - an epileptic - was denied her epilepsy medicine. She asked several times what she was being held for and they refused to tell her.

At present I'm assuming the whole thing is down to incompetence and then a desperate attempt to cover it up.

The alternative is someone in the police abusing their position, but that's altogether a more serious situation and I'll need a little more information before I can really go that way.

(I do, incidentally, have her permission to tell you all this)

Edit: During those eight hours she was completely alone and VERY frightened. No-one would tell her what was going on. This should not happen to ANYONE in this country, let alone a tiny woman with mental health issues and medical concerns.

She only has a claim If she was held In custody for over 24 hours without charge.

I can't see that she has any other claim.

Did she have an epileptic siezure through being denied her medication? If she had a siezure In custody or Immediately after then maybe there Is a claim but If she didn't, then there was no suffering In the eyes of law.

Officers change shift every few hours and this could have led to the confusion. They would also argue that as her boyfriend saw her go In, he should have called a solicitor once he realised they were holding her. Also she would have been offered a duty solicitor on booking In the custody suite.

She only has a claim If she was held In custody for over 24 hours without charge.


So the police in this country can just call you in off the street and hold you for 23hrs 59 mins without ANY explanation and then let you go with no come back?

I'm not familiar with the police or legal terminology and procedures so maybe I'm misrepresenting something. But although she was called in on the phone relating to the bail, when she got there she was put in a cell and NO-ONE told her ANYTHING. Not about the bail, not the charges, nothing. They just locked her up for eight hours.

They did afterwards try to claim she'd broken bail, but dropped that one sharpish since it was demonstrably true she had not.



They would also argue that as her boyfriend saw her go In, he should have called a solicitor once he realised they were holding her.


Are you seriously suggesting it is police policy or the law that if friends and or family don't do something about it, a person can be allowed to rot in cells until the police get round to bothering about them?

Clodhopper;1376410 wrote: So the police in this country can just call you in off the street and hold you for 23hrs 59 mins without ANY explanation and then let you go with no come back?

I'm not familiar with the police or legal terminology and procedures so maybe I'm misrepresenting something. But although she was called in on the phone relating to the bail, when she got there she was put in a cell and NO-ONE told her ANYTHING. Not about the bail, not the charges, nothing. They just locked her up for eight hours.

They did afterwards try to claim she'd broken bail, but dropped that one sharpish since it was demonstrably true she had not.





Are you seriously suggesting it is police policy or the law that if friends and or family don't do something about it, a person can be allowed to rot in cells until the police get round to bothering about them?


No but you're missing the point.

Let's say you were viciously beaten up but there were no witness's. You make a complaint to the police. They arrest him and In Interview under caution, he flatly denies It. The police would then bail him pending further enquiries while they set about trying to find witness's to support your allegation. They then decide they are going to put the case to the CPS. If we then go by your reasoning, they phone him up to say ...'Look, there's every chance we are going to charge you with assault, can we make an appointment when It's convienient for you, do you have any appointments'? He arranges to see the police the next day and surprise surprise, he's done a runner and you never see justice.

That's why anyone on bail has to be In custody awaiting a decision from the CPS. The CPS may decide there Is enough evidence to support a charge but If they believe there Isn't, the person will be released without charge....

The police didn't just call her In off the street did they? She had been arrested and bailed. Surely she didn't think that was then the end of It ? Or do you really believe that our under-manned police should be namby pambying phoning up people on bail asking what day suits them best?

As for not telling her anything... The Desk Seargent In the custody suite Is duty bound to explain why they are there when they are processing them. Also, at any time, she was entitled to a phone call and to accept the offer of a duty solicitor. That Is the law.

I can understand her outrage. Being locked up In a cell affects people In different ways. Some take mild exception and some are so outraged that they bang their heads against walls. Some like me, take It with a pinch of salt and take the opportunity to have a nice kip.

This all sounds to me that during those 8 hours, the officers changed shift and the officers coming on were not updated quick enough. However, that's not criminal, just Inept and could even be down to lack of officers on the day. It's something you should be shouting at Cameron and not the officers doing their job.

If anyone doesn't like the police being able to call them In, then It's simple... don't get arrested and let out on bail.

They didn't just pull her In off the street, they made an appointment for 1 pm for her.

You didn't answer my question, did she have an epileptic siezure In custody or Immediately after due to denial of medication?

You didn't answer my question, did she have an epileptic siezure In custody or Immediately after due to denial of medication?


Sorry - no she didn't. But she should have taken a dose during that time. Anyway, she's not complaining about that. I just find it outrageous, especially since she can suffer brain damage during a seizure.

Her bail condition was to report to the police station on date X. She did. The police phoned to arrange a time convenient for them and she turned up on time. Nothing was explained to her and something odd happened with the offer of a solicitor, though I'll have to get the details off her. She didn't get one, anyway.

This all sounds to me that during those 8 hours, the officers changed shift and the officers coming on were not updated quick enough. However, that's not criminal, just Inept and could even be down to lack of officers on the day. It's something you should be shouting at Cameron and not the officers doing their job.


That is also my current best guess. However, if the police cannot manage something as basic as a shift change without crapping all over vulnerable (and innocent!) people then that is an issue that particular station needs to sort out. A structural failing such as inadequate policing of terrorism is something I'd shout at Cameron about. Ordinary routine such as a shift change messing up is down to the officers on the spot and is NOT in my view, an adequate excuse for locking up a person for eight hours without explanation.

However, there is a chance that this was abuse of position by a police officer. But I'll need a good deal more information before I can say anything about that.

She would only have a claim If she had an epileptic siezure In custody or within an hour of leaving before she could get to her medication.

My husband had a similar two weeks ago.

He was phoned by one of his Indian pals late Friday night because the deliveries were stacked up and he went over for just an hour to help.

On the Monday, the shop was visited by the police asking who the driver was who had delivered to a certain address.

They phoned and made an appointment for him at the police station.

Unfortunately there Is no denying the force has some lying pieces of scum so as a Nation we tend to tar the all with the same brush and we become Immediatly suspicious of their motives.

He went to the police station for his appointment and right away was asked If he was on any medication and If he had any health Issue's. When he told them of his condition, they said, 'Right we need to get you out of here and home asap' They even asked when he was next due for his medication.

In the Interview, he was told that an address he had delivered to had described him to police and claimed It was him that had smashed Into and damaged his car when leaving his house on the Friday night. He wasn't locked up, It was all rather pleasent but they were duty bound to make enquiries. They saw there was no damage to our car and that was that, he cam home.

The next day, he got a call to say that the resident was absolutely Insisting that they arrest my husband and charge him.

Basically, the police laughed In the face of the resident telling him he had no proof my husband hit his car and why did he leave It until early Monday morning to report the damage and describe my husband?

So, sometimes, they do have some common sense.

So, sometimes, they do have some common sense.


Oh, agreed - there are some coppers involved in the earlier phase where she ended up arrested for whom she has nothing but praise. Let's just say if all the police here had showed the same common sense as in P's case, then the issue would never have arisen in the first place.