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David Starkey - Riot footage of violent black gangs broadcasters never wanted you to see - YouTube

OK, Let us not pay attention to the Inference that only black people were rioting. The British and Asians played their part.

But... I have never felt so chilled as I did watching this. OK, I don't even agree with the sensational use of the music to accompany the footage but what I saw left me horrified.

It Is a long video but please watch it all and say what you think.

My first and strongest reaction is to ask loudly "Why?"

Bruv;1365694 wrote: My first and strongest reaction is to ask loudly "Why?"


'Why' In what context Bruv ?

Why did they do what they did, why would they not broadcast this or why did I post this ?

Without getting into the why they didn't broadcast it, it is visible now and not unlike much that we saw anyway.

No why did it happen ?

It is not a question I should answer, I have my own theories, but frighteningly I have no easy short term solution.

Are black folks not british?

flopstock;1365699 wrote: Are black folks not british? If they have British citizenship, yes, If they do not, no.

Bruv;1365698 wrote: Without getting into the why they didn't broadcast it, it is visible now and not unlike much that we saw anyway.

No why did it happen ?

It is not a question I should answer, I have my own theories, but frighteningly I have no easy short term solution.


What stood out for me was that the entire footage must have been shot over a reasonable time. Where were the police?

That leads to one theory I may have that warnings of police cutbacks have been proved to be right.

I don't care what the cost. I would rather pay extra tax and have our police on our streets.

How many Police do we have on standby for such events ?

How many would it take to handle such an outbreak ?

Would a couple of squad cars or even a couple of meat wagons have controlled it ?



The questions asked earlier in this thread are a major part of the problem.

"Are the black folks British" ?

I would guess that most of the 'black folks' in this video are probably English as well as being British, but they don't feel they are.

Many of the blacks and Asians in the UK are British and technically as far as I know second generations are English.

I am sure a genealogy ex-spurt (a drip under pressure) will be a long soon and put me straight if I am wrong.

Bruv;1365702 wrote: How many Police do we have on standby for such events ?

How many would it take to handle such an outbreak ?

Would a couple of squad cars or even a couple of meat wagons have controlled it ?



The questions asked earlier in this thread are a major part of the problem.

"Are the black folks British" ?

I would guess that most of the 'black folks' in this video are probably English as well as being British, but they don't feel they are.

Many of the blacks and Asians in the UK are British and technically as far as I know second generations are English.

I am sure a genealogy ex-spurt (a drip under pressure) will be a long soon and put me straight if I am wrong.


I tend to agree with you and have wondered myself over the past week weather British Black and Asian rioters feel a sense of not belonging for a want of a better phrase.

How do we give them a sense of Identity In the country their parents chose?

The solution ?

Re write history ?

Change people's unintentional, subliminal (Think that's the word) irrational, understandable, lots of other words I am not getting right now.......attitudes and racist hangovers..........on both sides of the racial divide.

Innate.......should have been amongst them there words

oscar;1365701 wrote: What stood out for me was that the entire footage must have been shot over a reasonable time. Where were the police?

That leads to one theory I may have that warnings of police cutbacks have been proved to be right.

I don't care what the cost. I would rather pay extra tax and have our police on our streets.


And IMO, this is exactly desired result. They suggest police cuts and voila, uncontrolled rioting.

It just smells like a setup to me.

I saw a lot of non-Blacks in that footage.

flopstock;1365705 wrote: And IMO, this is exactly desired result. They suggest police cuts and voila, uncontrolled rioting.

It just smells like a setup to me.


It would of course, to you but then you weren't there.

These riots were basically just out and out criminality taking advantage of a situation, and because it was filmed and reported on the TV, of course copy-cat riots started up in other cities - ere that's a good idea pal, we could get loads of gear for nowt and they'd blame it on rioting !!!

Mostly it seems that the younger element started fires, and a mixed bunch - ages, colour, male, female all jumped on the band wagon and became thieves ! It was an excuse for violence, theft, arson, criminal damage and even murder. Unfortunately the savage is not far below the skin of all humans, is it ?

It just needs a trigger, a suggestion. It will happen again.

Oh by the way, as regards cuts, there have already been major police cuts, hence the sparse initial attendance of police at the beginning of the riots. Leave was stopped, as were days off and even retired police officers volunteered to attend the riots to help their former colleagues. How desperate is that situation ? Where is the ordinary man-in-the-street's protection ..................... yep they've been got rid of. And yes, these riots WILL happen again.

It used to be the Irish, you know. All the way through the thread, for Black reed Irish and that's what they were saying in the 1890s in London. Who do you think the Hooligans were?

To begin with there's immigration and prejudice. Then the prejudice to a large extent evaporates and there's multicultural assimilation. There's still bigots around who despise the London Irish, mind, but most people know who's blameworthy when it rears its head. David Starkey undoubtedly knows that lesson of history, he just doesn't like where it will lead. Bad cess to the man I say, he's deliberately fomenting nastiness no less than David Irving did regarding the Jews.

An example of the Police's position.

Police Overrun in Woolwich -London Riots 8/8/11 - YouTube

And the feelings of some English......

Millwall vs Looters - London riots - YouTube

G#Gill;1365727 wrote: It would of course, to you but then you weren't there.

These riots were basically just out and out criminality taking advantage of a situation, and because it was filmed and reported on the TV, of course copy-cat riots started up in other cities - ere that's a good idea pal, we could get loads of gear for nowt and they'd blame it on rioting !!!

Mostly it seems that the younger element started fires, and a mixed bunch - ages, colour, male, female all jumped on the band wagon and became thieves ! It was an excuse for violence, theft, arson, criminal damage and even murder. Unfortunately the savage is not far below the skin of all humans, is it ?

It just needs a trigger, a suggestion. It will happen again.

Oh by the way, as regards cuts, there have already been major police cuts, hence the sparse initial attendance of police at the beginning of the riots. Leave was stopped, as were days off and even retired police officers volunteered to attend the riots to help their former colleagues. How desperate is that situation ? Where is the ordinary man-in-the-street's protection ..................... yep they've been got rid of. And yes, these riots WILL happen again.


There was absolutely no excuse for the lack of police on the scene. The Croyden riots came two nights after the Initial riots In Tottenham and after other copy cat riots around the country.

From the footage, It looked like the road leading Into Thornton Heath to me.

Even with the cuts, there Is enough serving officers In this country to manage a few marauding gangs.

oscar;1365693 wrote: David Starkey - Riot footage of violent black gangs broadcasters never wanted you to see - YouTube

OK, Let us not pay attention to the Inference that only black people were rioting. The British and Asians played their part.

But... I have never felt so chilled as I did watching this. OK, I don't even agree with the sensational use of the music to accompany the footage but what I saw left me horrified.

It Is a long video but please watch it all and say what you think.


There is a finite amount that the BBC can show, unless this is actual bbc footage the implication that this was deliberately not shown is absurd, as you say. I think Cameron's response to this is out of order, if the police are telling him cutbacks in the number of police matters he is a fool not to listen. What they did in strathclyde was put more police on the ground, work with local communities but that doesn't mean being soft. Enforce the law by making sure the yobs know they are being watched and will not get away with anything.

BBC News - Today - Scotland 'turning young gang members around'

Just throwing people in jail does not work however politically appealing it might be as a sound bite.

As a historian David Starkey likes to see things in black and white.

David Starkey tries to talk about the English Riots on Newsnight - YouTube

In case you are not aware newsnight is a BBC programme.

gmc;1365777 wrote: There is a finite amount that the BBC can show, unless this is actual bbc footage the implication that this was deliberately not shown is absurd, as you say. I think Cameron's response to this is out of order, if the police are telling him cutbacks in the number of police matters he is a fool not to listen. What they did in strathclyde was put more police on the ground, work with local communities but that doesn't mean being soft. Enforce the law by making sure the yobs know they are being watched and will not get away with anything.

BBC News - Today - Scotland 'turning young gang members around'

Just throwing people in jail does not work however politically appealing it might be as a sound bite.

As a historian David Starkey likes to see things in black and white.

David Starkey tries to talk about the English Riots on Newsnight - YouTube

.


I totally agree. I have always been for Increasing numbers In the police and having more on the streets and In the communities.

Will look at your links soon as I get home.

spot;1365729 wrote: It used to be the Irish, you know. All the way through the thread, for Black read Irish and that's what they were saying in the 1890s in London.




The is a major difference between anti Irish and anti Black prejudices.

Second generation Irish are indistinguishable while blacks remain black through generations.

A racist sniper eyeing up a queue at a bus stop might choose the ex paratrooper third generation West Indian fresh back from Afghanistan over the Irish bomber laden with explosives on his way to the same barracks.

Bruv;1365787 wrote: Second generation Irish are indistinguishableYou have to be kidding me. I can segregate a roomful of Roman Catholics into Irish-descent and Recusant faultlessly every time, and so could every other True British Protestant since the days of Cromwell regardless of how long they've been over here.

Here we are - Mark Steel on David Starkey:What has changed is that the embittered snarling that was once confined to pub corners and fuming blogs now stands a chance of becoming government policy. Irrational screaming has become legitimate, and it's in this context we should see David Starkey.

The riots were caused, apparently, by black culture, and we can get round the fact some rioters were white by saying they'd turned black, and get round the fact most black people don't riot by saying they've turned white. You could use that logic to prove that being Welsh causes boats to capsize, or that everything alive is a penguin. Take away the title historian, and he's one more purveyor of loud incoherent gibberish.

Mark Steel: Flogging is too good for them

The entire article is a work of genius, as one might expect.

Skrewdriver - If theres a riot (no politics) - YouTube

Remember punk? I grew up in the seventies and on one occasion, I must admit, I did came very close to belting the local Tory MP who had just given a speech about how unemployed people really weren't trying very hard.



The Sex Pistols - Anarchy In The U.K (official video) - YouTube

I wouldn't justify the rioting in any way but the banker have caused an awful lot more damage to the economy - at least the riots have given a boost to the building trade.

spot;1365805 wrote: You have to be kidding me. I can segregate a roomful of Roman Catholics into Irish-descent and Recusant faultlessly every time, and so could every other True British Protestant since the days of Cromwell regardless of how long they've been over here.


I suspect that is your sense of humour, I wont do a 'Spot' on it, pulling it apart bit by bit.

Bruv;1365820 wrote: I suspect that is your sense of humour, I wont do a 'Spot' on it, pulling it apart bit by bit.


Yes it's humour. Oddly enough it's also true which is why it's so funny. Old English Catholic recusant families in general consist of withdrawn spiritual quietists who do it out of a deep sense of honour, old Irish Roman Catholic immigrant families do it out of a continuing deep sense of guilt.

spot;1365823 wrote: Yes it's humour. Oddly enough it's also true which is why it's so funny. Old English Catholic recusant families in general consist of withdrawn spiritual quietists who do it out of a deep sense of honour, old Irish Roman Catholic immigrant families do it out of a continuing deep sense of guilt.


Sorry .......you don't DO humour, that is obvious to see.

This Old English Catholic recusant, standing beside this Irish Roman Catholic immigrant.......in the Bus queue with the West Indian ex paratrooper......remember the story......with the racist sniper taking aim ?........bet this sniper couldn't tell the bleeding difference, unlike your own humorous self of course.

You're discussing civil war by the sound of it.

The Anglo-Saxons and the Vikings and the Celts all looked so different you could tell them apart by skin-tone and morphology for sniping purposes. They're long gone from the average bus-load of Londoners too. We interbred enthusiastically.

spot;1365861 wrote: You're discussing civil war by the sound of it.

The Anglo-Saxons and the Vikings and the Celts all looked so different you could tell them apart by skin-tone and morphology for sniping purposes. They're long gone from the average bus-load of Londoners too. We interbred enthusiastically.


No I was discussing the stupidity of prejudice hence the illustration of a racist sniper, a not unknown modern phenomenon, taking potshots at the subject of their prejudice.

Nothing at all to do with your sniping ancient briton and any differences between them.

Let me repeat what I think I said, so you can put me straight !!!!!

A racist wouldn't be able to differentiate between an upstanding descendant of West Indian ancestry in a line of Irish bombers at a bus stop.(Remember this guy is a nutter who hates blacks......he is not a forum contributor with a pedantic streak)

That is not an opinion, its black and white for all to see............except you apparently.

gmc;1365815 wrote: Skrewdriver - If theres a riot (no politics) - YouTube

Remember punk? I grew up in the seventies and on one occasion, I must admit, I did came very close to belting the local Tory MP who had just given a speech about how unemployed people really weren't trying very hard.



The Sex Pistols - Anarchy In The U.K (official video) - YouTube

I wouldn't justify the rioting in any way but the banker have caused an awful lot more damage to the economy - at least the riots have given a boost to the building trade.
Thought you were a Hippy ?

I am wondering about the proportion of convicted rioters that are the product of single parent families.

The Labour Government has created this beast that Is now unleashed. We have a proportion of the Nation with no work ethic and knowing nothing else but the benefit system and all the tactics to get the most out of It. When they see others with something, they don't think, If I work hard, I may have one of those one day, but they think they can just take It.

The benefit system has systematically rewarded feckless fathers, Inept teenage mothers while penalising the hard working families. This balance has to be flipped before all out civil war.

The gang mentality often Is the product of missing Fathers and a family unit.

oscar;1365937 wrote: Thought you were a Hippy ?

I am wondering about the proportion of convicted rioters that are the product of single parent families.

The Labour Government has created this beast that Is now unleashed. We have a proportion of the Nation with no work ethic and knowing nothing else but the benefit system and all the tactics to get the most out of It. When they see others with something, they don't think, If I work hard, I may have one of those one day, but they think they can just take It.

The benefit system has systematically rewarded feckless fathers, Inept teenage mothers while penalising the hard working families. This balance has to be flipped before all out civil war.

The gang mentality often Is the product of missing Fathers and a family unit.


This post may very well be applicable to most western countries. Especially the U.S.

YZGI;1365940 wrote: This post may very well be applicable to most western countries. Especially the U.S. Our Prime Minister Is now making dire threats to reverse this attitude but It Is way too late. The beast Is already unleashed. It may save future generations but It won't save this one.