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I just checked the "officially recognized" websites for the Yes and No campaigns.

I'm astonished. One reasonable, fair, sensible and easy to look at, the other is frankly rubbish both in hysterical tabloid hysteria and format terms. Who on earth was responsible for that dreadful lash-up?

AV myths | Yes to fairer votes - Yes to AV - Alternative Vote

Why Vote No | NO to the Alternative Vote (AV)

We have the same problem we have always had, politicians who donlt actually want people to take an interest in politics so they can do what they want. Hopefully people are so pissed off at the political establishment they will vote for change. Sadly the average daily mail reader seems to believe the last thing they read. I remember having an argument with a UKIP member who insisted only 14% of our trade was with europe, he had a leaflet that told him so.

gmc;1357562 wrote: I remember having an argument with a UKIP member who insisted only 14% of our trade was with europe, he had a leaflet that told him so.Perhaps the leaflet was right, and his reduction to "our trade with europe" was the mistake. Manufacturing? Services? Raw materials? Food? With Europe compared with all imports and exports? With Europe compared with home consumption?

Taking just manufacturing for last year, exports and imports with non-EU countries was UKPbillion 121/177, and with EU countries was 141/185. I reckon that puts the European trade higher than non-European for manufacturing imports and manufacturing exports. UKIP no doubt would focus on areas where the figures were less prejudicial to their political outlook, the weaselly creatures.

links for those interested:

1. UK Trade with Countries outside the European Union - February 2011 https://www.uktradeinfo.com/index.cfm?t ... layer=true

2. UK Trade with the European Union - January 2011 https://www.uktradeinfo.com/index.cfm?task=euearlypub

It's just flat out nonsense. We trade more than that with germany and france never mind anyone else.

https://www.uktradeinfo.com/index.cfm?task=topPartners

The other aspect of their campaigning that annoys me is their insistence we never had a referendum on joining. We did, I was there and I remember the shock of the no campaign at the result.

I'm rather pleased these red-faced John Bull throwbacks are perpetually incandescent with rage, you know. I'd hate to see them smug and on top the way I remember them back in the bad old days. They are fallen, there is no way back for them and the longer they watch their past disintegrate the greater will be my reward.

I have just found a precedent thread, I'm outraged that it has been stood up by some fly-by-night passing whim of a thread on the identical same topic.

spot;1357574 wrote: I'm rather pleased these red-faced John Bull throwbacks are perpetually incandescent with rage, you know. I'd hate to see them smug and on top the way I remember them back in the bad old days. They are fallen, there is no way back for them and the longer they watch their past disintegrate the greater will be my reward.


BNP and UKIP all lost their deposits in scotland - so did the christian party but I don't suppose they will accept that as god's will and **** off.

The AV referendum count started 50 minutes ago and the mumbling suggests that the No campaigners have won, bad cess to them may their bits wither.

spot;1358905 wrote: The AV referendum count started 50 minutes ago and the mumbling suggests that the No campaigners have won, bad cess to them may their bits wither.


Seems to me there was never any clear debate about what was involved and the difference it would have made just petty squabbling along party lines. It's sad the last thirty years have been a disaster for the UK because one party gets too many seats despite the hostility of most of the electorate. It's AV that's made the big chage in scotland.

I'm really disappointed in the result

theia;1358983 wrote: I'm really disappointed in the result


We'll none of us be asked again, that's pretty certain.

We should get a lapel badge for having voted in both of England's referenda.

spot;1359001 wrote: We'll none of us be asked again, that's pretty certain.

We should get a lapel badge for having voted in both of England's referenda.


Cheer up, the next scottish one should be pretty interesting.

spot;1359001 wrote: We'll none of us be asked again, that's pretty certain.

We should get a lapel badge for having voted in both of England's referenda.


Never a truer word spoken ! AV was a way towards PR, nobody seemed to understand that though - the fault of the 'yes' brigade not making it totally clear. Either that or the typical Brit attitude of 'So what? Am I bovvered?'