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Is http://www.joplinindependent.com/displa ... 1115412985 a hoax, in anyone's opinion? Do people really stand up in church and applaud when a section of the congregation is expelled for voting against the incumbent President of the United States?

canaan wrote: I would have to know exactly what the pastor said. Bitter church members aren't the most credible bunch.That's a fair take, canaan. I only asked because it was a local paper, you'd expect them to feel a backlash if they lied too much about local issues.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised. Bush is America's Mullah. The Christian militants got him re-elected by seizing churches and their membership. The USA is the Iran of the Western Hemisphere.

it's fake. has the exact same stink as what this thread started with:



http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4407



it appears to be a concerted effort by some chuckleheads to propogate fake news stories, then hope they get picked up by the legitimate press, as some sort of 'punishment' for poor reporting ethics and followup that they perceive.

We know the church excommunicates those that do not hold conservative positions on the issues! Gays and pro-abortion rights supporters are NOT welcome in the evangelical church. Rightwing Catholics refuse communion to those that do not support rightwing causes, including John Kerry. Even Pope JohnPaul2 said he would refuse communion to those that don't hail from the "Family Values" cult. Though that Pope did give communion to murderous dictator Augusto Pinochet and Marcos of the Philippines to name a couple. So yes, there is a real effort to purify the Holy War crowd of normal Americans and proof can be found in just one link to a local Christian Jihad church. www.ffc.org

flopstock wrote: david are you being a tease tonight or is my link off? LOL



spot>> your link is to an oped page not hard news. I'm watching the ap wire at work and will let you know if i see anything cross..





dianeOh I'm not a tease until I get the hell outta here. As in work. But you should see me after one of my treatments!:yh_party :yh_doh

flopstock wrote: your link is to an oped page not hard news. I'm watching the ap wire at work and will let you know if i see anything cross.It's shown up so far on Washington Post, KPLC-TV, LA, WorldNetDaily, OR, Asheville Citizen-Times, NC, WFIE-TV, IN, Joplin Independent, MO, Newsday, NY, the Associated Press, and the News & Observer, NC, but I'm sure the local newspapers are the only ones carrying it who have a stake in being accurate as opposed to merely amusing.

looks like i might eat crow on this one. frankly, i think it's pretty funny. one itsy-bitsy church in an itsy-bitsy town that has *52* different churches in it, one pastor who appears to have not gone gently into that dark night, and it's a conspiracy of national proportions to string up all democrats.

hilarious!



of course, then there are the real fruitcakes, you know, the jim jones cult, or the crazies who committed suicide because some comet came near earth and that meant they were going to meet their space brothers.



but this makes for better "news" cuz it's not all depressing with like dead people and all.

I don`t know -truth is stranger than fiction - and people have been ex-communicated throughout the years for some pretty weird things.......

WAYNESVILLE, N.C. (AP) - A Baptist preacher accused of running out nine congregants who disagreed with his Republican politics resigned Tuesday, two days after calling the issue "a great misunderstanding."

That's one broken congregation:

“It’s really sad that all this happened,” a teary-eyed Misty Tucker said before getting in her car. Tucker said she would no longer attend East Waynesville Baptist Church. “I’m not going to serve where there are so many ungodly people.”

and

“I hope he does well and continues his education. I love Chan and his family. I hope he will be successful wherever he goes,” Biddix said.

(I wonder whether that's teaching or learning that Ms Biddix refers to?)

and... "the dismissed members, who attended the service with their lawyer" is such a perverse and alien notion!

May I enquire a little further, since this episode now seems clear in its outlines? I take the following passage as my text:

"No one has ever been voted from the membership of this church due to an individual's support or lack of support for a political party or candidate,"If someone is voted from membership of a typical church which could make a statement like this, does that mean they are barred from entry to the services, or just from discussion of, for example, church policy or the minister's stipend?

Would a typical church which could make a statement like this ever bar anyone from a service? Or is the entry of all to any such church considered a sacred duty on the part of the congregation and minister?

anastrophe wrote: looks like i might eat crow on this one. frankly, i think it's pretty funny. one itsy-bitsy church in an itsy-bitsy town that has *52* different churches in it, one pastor who appears to have not gone gently into that dark night, and it's a conspiracy of national proportions to string up all democrats.



hilarious!



of course, then there are the real fruitcakes, you know, the jim jones cult, or the crazies who committed suicide because some comet came near earth and that meant they were going to meet their space brothers.



but this makes for better "news" cuz it's not all depressing with like dead people and all.So now that the story isn't fabricated by UN funded lesbian supporters of Jane Fonda it 'just isn't a big deal.' I look forward to a progressive black church excommunicating Bush supporters and watching the rightist cry babies squeal! Surely Jesus and the Flag will prevent that from coming true!

David813 wrote: So now that the story isn't fabricated by UN funded lesbian supporters of Jane Fonda it 'just isn't a big deal.' I look forward to a progressive black church excommunicating Bush supporters and watching the rightist cry babies squeal! Surely Jesus and the Flag will prevent that from coming true!
hopefully, that won't happen. hopefully no other fruitcake ministers will try to bar leftwing parishioners.



hopefully, since there is only this one incident, in a nation of hundreds of millions of people, with hundreds of thousands of churches (possibly millions of churches?), reasonable people will see this for what it was - the actions of one lunatic, not an example of the 'neocon movement to turn this into a theocracy' .



sadly, i think if i held my breath, it wouldn't cause me to even get dizzy - waiting for someone to make just that claim.

anastrophe wrote: hopefully, that won't happen. hopefully no other fruitcake ministers will try to bar leftwing parishioners.



hopefully, since there is only this one incident, in a nation of hundreds of millions of people, with hundreds of thousands of churches (possibly millions of churches?), reasonable people will see this for what it was - the actions of one lunatic, not an example of the 'neocon movement to turn this into a theocracy' .



sadly, i think if i held my breath, it wouldn't cause me to even get dizzy - waiting for someone to make just that claim.Large wealthy fundamentalist Christian churches across the nation have become voter registration centers. Jerry Falwell was the honored guest at a local fundie church here not long ago. Imagine what his message was:yh_think . Churches that picket the funerals of gays, that blockade abortion clinics, that are currently involved in changing the curriculum of public schools in Kansas to teach THEIR religious view of the world, fundies funding senators, congresspeople and like minded institutions to pass the Jesus Tested agenda, our own prez repeatedly asking for prayer and "Christian Values" and you think the NC church incident is no biggie. A blip on the TIVO screen of life? There is a war on and it isn't in Iraq (That's an occupation/invasion.) it's here in the US. The fundies are here and are laying out the blueprints of their America. Like the Iranian fundies, they are now constructing a theocracy and an enemies list. Any personally responsible American would make sure to be ON that list. The Christian Police are coming soon......

Jiperly wrote: Wanna know whose seriously f*cked up?



Westboro Baptist Church, lead by Pastor Fred Phelps. Dudes got tons of extremely insane websites- Godhatesf*gs.com, even godhatesAmerica.comYep! Old Fred's compound is 45 miles due west of my chair tonight. They picket the funerals of gays and the homes of their families in their effort to alert the world to the hellbound sodomites and their agenda against good American Christians. I've picketed THEM picketing and the number of children in their little Christian cult is disturbing. And the Jesus freaks think THEY are the VICTIMS in today's society!!!

David813 wrote: , our own prez repeatedly asking for prayer and "Christian Values" and you think the NC church incident is no biggie. A blip on the TIVO screen of life? There is a war on and it isn't in Iraq (That's an occupation/invasion.) it's here in the US. The fundies are here and are laying out the blueprints of their America. Like the Iranian fundies, they are now constructing a theocracy and an enemies list. Any personally responsible American would make sure to be ON that list. The Christian Police are coming soon......


First of all YOUR country was created on Judeo-Christian principals, so live with it Pal.



If these kinds of things were rampant you might have a point but they are not. This church debacle is a isolated incident at best.

Check this pic out..... It is "Justice the Guardian of Liberty" by Hermon A. McNeil, which appears on the eastern pediment of the Supreme Court building. .....Do you know who sets in the center?



Give you a clue........ Charelton Heston portrayed him on screen.

Attached files

BTS wrote: First of all YOUR country was created on Judeo-Christian principals, so live with it Pal.



If these kinds of things were rampant you might have a point but they are not. This church debacle is a isolated incident at best.

Check this pic out..... It is "Justice the Guardian of Liberty" by Hermon A. McNeil, which appears on the eastern pediment of the Supreme Court building. .....Do you know who sets in the center?



Give you a clue........ Charelton Heston portrayed him on screen.I have to agree with your signature! Find a fundie to chat with. You're too far beneath me!:D

David813 wrote: Large wealthy fundamentalist Christian churches across the nation have become voter registration centers. Jerry Falwell was the honored guest at a local fundie church here not long ago. Imagine what his message was:yh_think .
imagine what the message was when michael moore held 'get out the vote' rallies at college campuses all over the country last fall.





Churches that picket the funerals of gays, that blockade abortion clinics, that are currently involved in changing the curriculum of public schools in Kansas to teach THEIR religious view of the world, fundies funding senators, congresspeople and like minded institutions to pass the Jesus Tested agenda, our own prez repeatedly asking for prayer and "Christian Values" and you think the NC church incident is no biggie.
right. it's not a big deal. are you suggesting that left wingers don't do the same for their preferred senators and congresspeople and like-minded institutions?



bill clinton was extremely fond of talking about christian values. went to church every sunday. we saw the photo ops every month or two. talked about how he prayed all the time. prayed for guidance. prayed for strength.



let me repeat: one lunatic, one church, massive news coverage, lunatic resigns.



this is indicative of something more than that?





A blip on the TIVO screen of life? There is a war on and it isn't in Iraq (That's an occupation/invasion.) it's here in the US. The fundies are here and are laying out the blueprints of their America. Like the Iranian fundies, they are now constructing a theocracy and an enemies list. Any personally responsible American would make sure to be ON that list. The Christian Police are coming soon......




you post a note here when the christian police take you away, okay dear? wait, of course - you'll disappear silently. okay, when you suddenly stop posting to FG, i'll take that to mean the christian police took you away. you can PM me your phone number, address, etc., in advance, and if that happens, and i'll be the first one to fly out there and fight to set you free.



i don't think i'll be needing to buy a plane ticket anytime soon however.

anastrophe wrote: imagine what the message was when michael moore held 'get out the vote' rallies at college campuses all over the country last fall.





right. it's not a big deal. are you suggesting that left wingers don't do the same for their preferred senators and congresspeople and like-minded institutions?



bill clinton was extremely fond of talking about christian values. went to church every sunday. we saw the photo ops every month or two. talked about how he prayed all the time. prayed for guidance. prayed for strength.



let me repeat: one lunatic, one church, massive news coverage, lunatic resigns.



this is indicative of something more than that?









you post a note here when the christian police take you away, okay dear? wait, of course - you'll disappear silently. okay, when you suddenly stop posting to FG, i'll take that to mean the christian police took you away. you can PM me your phone number, address, etc., in advance, and if that happens, and i'll be the first one to fly out there and fight to set you free.



i don't think i'll be needing to buy a plane ticket anytime soon however.So you see nothing seperating a political activist speaking at a college and a political activist speaking at a church? Not surprised. I know you are enthusiastic about a religious government. I hate Bill Clinton as much as I hate Bush. That bait doesn't work on me. "One lunatic, One party, massive news coverage, lunatic becomes leader." His name was Adolf Hitler.

Jiperly wrote: Wanna know whose seriously f*cked up?



Westboro Baptist Church, lead by Pastor Fred Phelps. Dudes got tons of extremely insane websites- Godhatesf*gs.com, even godhatesAmerica.com
yes indeed. as a matter of fact, several years ago, the company i worked for bought the small ISP that was hosting those sites (the people who ran that site were a bunch of real live hippy dippies! it was great having them walk into our corporate offices in tie dye, long hair, jeans, as new members of the company). so after we took over the company of course, we became the webhost for those sites. which meant that, from time to time, i would get angry emails from people demanding that we take down the sites.



and you know what? even though i'm a 'fag-loving right winger' who is adamantly in favor of gay marriage, i had to tell those poor misguided souls who wanted us to shut down the site that it would be wrong for us do so. because freedom of speech means freedom of speech. you know - that thing you claimed i'm against in the other topic. the phelps site are full of hatred and vitriol - but they are very, very careful not to have any wording that could be interpreted to be *directly encouraging violence against gays* (at least, they didn't back then, several years ago - and i haven't looked at the sites since then, because - well, i don't believe that god hates 'fags'). saying hateful things is protected under the first amendment. instructing people to do violence is not protected under the first amendment. much like the oft heard but less often fully understood 'shouting fire in a crowded theater', the "reverend" phelp has a right to be a bigoted, hateful, homophobe.

David813 wrote: So you see nothing seperating a political activist speaking at a college and a political activist speaking at a church? Not surprised. I know you are enthusiastic about a religious government. I hate Bill Clinton as much as I hate Bush. That bait doesn't work on me. "One lunatic, One party, massive news coverage, lunatic becomes leader. His name was Adolf Hitler.
I gotta sympathise with you david........ If I woulda lost the election I would be acting a little crazy too.........

You got 3 1/2 years to change it. I don't think negative crying is going to get-er-done tho. Me thinks that is how you lost the last time.

Get some real issues. This Christian bashing ain't gonna do nothing but put you 7 1/2 years back.......

Think about it.

David813 wrote: So you see nothing seperating a political activist speaking at a college and a political activist speaking at a church? Not surprised. I know you are enthusiastic about a religious government.
i am? do tell. i prefer a federal republic, thank you. the last thing i want is a theocracy.



I hate Bill Clinton as much as I hate Bush. That bait doesn't work on me. "One lunatic, One party, massive news coverage, lunatic becomes leader." His name was Adolf Hitler.
Godwin's Law!

BTS wrote: I gotta sympathise with you david........ If I woulda lost the election I would be acting a little crazy too.........

You got 3 1/2 years to change it. I don't think negative crying is going to get-er-done tho. Me thinks that is how you lost the last time.

Get some real issues. This Christian bashing ain't gonna do nothing but put you 7 1/2 years back.......

Think about it.First of all I do not participate in the election crap. I'm not a Democrat and haven't been since '84. I will whine & bitch & cry as long as there are dumb Americans, so adapt. The revolutionary party does not dance with corporate financed capitalist enterprises called REpubs & Dems. My Christian bashing lives on. Check out a Christian sermon at www.godhatesfags.com Gee, I wonder why I hate zealots?!

David813 wrote: First of all I do not participate in the election crap. I'm not a Democrat and haven't been since '84. I will whine & bitch & cry as long as there are dumb Americans, so adapt. The revolutionary party does not dance with corporate financed capitalist enterprises called REpubs & Dems. My Christian bashing lives on. Check out a Christian sermon at www.godhatesfags.com Gee, I wonder why I hate zealots?!




Seriously now David. I mean it.



How do you figure on making any changes whatsoever with a small radical splinter group? Are you serious about a revolution?

Just wondering



Thanx for the link. I will check er out after my carrots come up this fall.

David813 wrote: Check out a Christian sermon at www.godhatesfags.com Gee, I wonder why I hate zealots?!
Well I got admit the reason I will not click your link. I have a HIV positive brother that I love and I abhor that kind of hate crap. You can not paint all conservatives with the same brush David

BTS wrote: Seriously now David. I mean it.



How do you figure on making any changes whatsoever with a small radical splinter group? Are you serious about a revolution?

Just wondering



Thanx for the link. I will check er out after my carrots come up this fall.I don't believe political leadership should be based on popularity contests. The Bolsheviks were a small splinter party. They brought Russia out of the Middle Ages and into a superpower in a few decades. The CP of China was not a large organization in the late 40's. Now they are. Encouraging Americans to search for extreme solutions is what we are about. All it takes is a power outage and chaos reigns in most cities. In my view we need to sweep away the twin party system and build a Workers Party. Laugh if you will but you never know what lies within the next page of our coming history.

BTS wrote: Well I got admit the reason I will not click your link. I have a HIV positive brother that I love and I abhor that kind of hate crap. You can not paint all conservatives with the same brush DavidI am STUNNED you are a Christian zealot but don't dig Hate! 1st Encounter with that for me BTS. Did I hear a scrap of compassion in this post?

David813 wrote: I don't believe political leadership should be based on popularity contests. The Bolsheviks were a small splinter party. They brought Russia out of the Middle Ages and into a superpower in a few decades. The CP of China was not a large organization in the late 40's. Now they are. Encouraging Americans to search for extreme solutions is what we are about. All it takes is a power outage and chaos reigns in most cities. In my view we need to sweep away the twin party system and build a Workers Party. Laugh if you will but you never know what lies within the next page of our coming history.I will Laugh not.





I just can not understand how you can be against a 2 party system as opposed to a 1 party system.

This extreme stuff you keep referring to is so blown out of proportion. Remember how unemployment carried the day last year and how Bush's economic policy was the end of the world. Other than the high cost of gas I think we are recovering fairly well.

If you want a ONE ruler system I would have fight to you every step of the way.



About the Bolsheviks, I believe they played a very little part in the revolution.

You ought to try and look at some of YOUR great American Revolutionist, you might find they were pretty special. The created a Govt. that is still standing today.

David813 wrote: I am STUNNED you are a Christian zealot but don't dig Hate! 1st Encounter with that for me BTS. Did I hear a scrap of compassion in this post?
This is where we part David.

You label me without knowing me at all.

I think I went to church all of 2 times last year.

One was to bury my Grandmother.

If that makes me a Christian zealot, then so be it.



I am a God fearing man YES.......Christian zealot NOT!!!!!!

posted by david813

I don't believe political leadership should be based on popularity contests. The Bolsheviks were a small splinter party. They brought Russia out of the Middle Ages and into a superpower in a few decades. The CP of China was not a large organization in the late 40's. Now they are. Encouraging Americans to search for extreme solutions is what we are about. All it takes is a power outage and chaos reigns in most cities. In my view we need to sweep away the twin party system and build a Workers Party. Laugh if you will but you never know what lies within the next page of our coming history.


So what would you base it on? Divine right of kings, dictatorship, rule by force.

I'm curious have you studied any chinese or Russian history?

Both China and Russia were peasant societies which should never have had a workers revolution and arguably didn't. They do show the power of a dedicated group in the right environment to change things. You could make a heck of a good case that tyhe way Mao went about getting chinese peasant support owes more to Sun Tzu than a middle cless German's philosophy.

Communism is a middle class political philosophy springing a rather patronising belief that the poor undertrodden workers needed someone to tell them the way. When in reality most of the workers turn round and say right, you have some good ideas but we don't agree with all of them then they are deluded and do not know the way. Anyone that disagrees just needs educated in the way.

The reason for my dislike of Fundamental religious groups is the same one I have little time for fundamentalist political groups or any political group that shouts down opposition. The arrogant assumption that they and only such as they have the right of it. Theocracy or communism, some choice.

One of the reasons that communism never really got the grip its adherents thought it should is that in a society where the mass of the population are well educated most are bright enough to realise that swopping one set of masters for another was not the answer, there are other ways, most of Europe consists of social democracies now. sod the revolution let's have freedom. Socialism has had an impact along with the protestant revolution, french revolution, english civil war etc in which it has it's roots.

So you want a one party state, who runs the party? You, or do you have someone else in mind?

O.K. so the american political system is flawed, it will change as people get fed up and start doing something. Ours has problems as well, it too will change. What we don't need is some political pundit that read a book telling us what to do. We've read the book we can make up our own minds. Just be glad you live in a liberal democracy where you can express such views.