Former Bush aid wades in on the side of transparency. Its a good read.
NationalJournal.com - To Tell the Truth - Thursday, December 2, 2010
wikileaks
wikileaks
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
wikileaks
I have hardly seen anything earth shattering in the cables. Most of it sounds like honest dialog. The most interesting thing is the response to the cables... if you force a politician to speak the truth, you get charged with rape. 
wikileaks
Ahso!;1345840 wrote: Former Bush aid wades in on the side of transparency. Its a good read.
NationalJournal.com - To Tell the Truth - Thursday, December 2, 2010
Interesting article. The right wing has been more incoherent than usual on this issue.. so it's refreshing to see.
NationalJournal.com - To Tell the Truth - Thursday, December 2, 2010
Interesting article. The right wing has been more incoherent than usual on this issue.. so it's refreshing to see.
wikileaks
The government is making no secret of its intension to shut wikileaks down at any length or tools at its disposal. Very sad indeed. I see we even have our very own highly classified member here at FG. Its nice to be lectured (and most likely lied to, again) by that individual, too - teaching us more about that Christian attitude of love and forgiveness.
I saw a great bumper sticker recently, it read : "WWJD? Jesus would slap the s#@t out of you."
I saw a great bumper sticker recently, it read : "WWJD? Jesus would slap the s#@t out of you."
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
wikileaks
recovering conservative;1345837 wrote: Attention Citizens of The Mother Country
If you are still a little surprised at how governments around the world are totally disregarding all their claims of freedom of speech and democracy, to stop Wikileaks at any cost; here's the kind of "state secrets" that your government is trying to hide, or at least keep away from public attention:
According to the latest Wikileaks, British Conservative party politicians lined up before the general election last May to promise that they would run a "pro-American regime" and buy more arms from the US if they came to power this year.
The leaked Embassy dispatches also reveal – in what The Guardian newspaper says is “in humiliating detail†– how US diplomats in London were amused by what they call Britain's "paranoid" fears about the so-called special relationship.
One said the anxious British attitude "would often be humorous if it were not so corrosive" and that it was tempting to take advantage of this neurosis to "make London more willing to respond favourably when pressed for assistance".
You can probably have a good guess at what ordinary British citizens think about that so called special relationship. pathetic sums it up pretty well and is printable.
posted by ahso
I saw a great bumper sticker recently, it read : "WWJD? Jesus would slap the s#@t out of you."
Finally dawned on me wwjd stands for what would jesus do. I'm afraid I don't speak acronym very well. Well they can't advocate turning the other cheek nowadays - sounds a bit kinky and rather gay does it not? Slapping is a bit girly as well come to think of it. Don't you get in to trouble or something for making jokes about religion in the states?
If you are still a little surprised at how governments around the world are totally disregarding all their claims of freedom of speech and democracy, to stop Wikileaks at any cost; here's the kind of "state secrets" that your government is trying to hide, or at least keep away from public attention:
According to the latest Wikileaks, British Conservative party politicians lined up before the general election last May to promise that they would run a "pro-American regime" and buy more arms from the US if they came to power this year.
The leaked Embassy dispatches also reveal – in what The Guardian newspaper says is “in humiliating detail†– how US diplomats in London were amused by what they call Britain's "paranoid" fears about the so-called special relationship.
One said the anxious British attitude "would often be humorous if it were not so corrosive" and that it was tempting to take advantage of this neurosis to "make London more willing to respond favourably when pressed for assistance".
You can probably have a good guess at what ordinary British citizens think about that so called special relationship. pathetic sums it up pretty well and is printable.
posted by ahso
I saw a great bumper sticker recently, it read : "WWJD? Jesus would slap the s#@t out of you."
Finally dawned on me wwjd stands for what would jesus do. I'm afraid I don't speak acronym very well. Well they can't advocate turning the other cheek nowadays - sounds a bit kinky and rather gay does it not? Slapping is a bit girly as well come to think of it. Don't you get in to trouble or something for making jokes about religion in the states?
wikileaks
I suppose for the guy who displayed that sticker, it might be a good idea to wear a bullet proof vest while driving. Though it very well could belong to a Christian meaning the second coming Jesus, I guess. In that case "WWJD" would mean 'what WILL Jesus do'. And 'knock' might be a better choice of words instead of 'slap'. It could be a woman who designed the bumper sticker, too. There are endless possibilities, thats what makes life in America so rich.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
wikileaks
The leaks so far haven't dome any real harm, if anything they show diplomats in a good light as being conscientious in reporting what they think rather than what they think they should report to keep. That middle eastern countries are worried about iran and wanted the US to attack is a revelation that might make it easier for the us to get more support against iran if needed.
What is not doing the US any credit is the over-reaction and the determination to shut down wikileaks at any cost. For a county that lectures others on free speech and the need for freedom of the press they really shoot themselves in the foot. That US politicians can't seem to grasp that a foreign national can't be guilty of treason if they are not american is laughable. That they think they have a right to shut up foreign press says an awful lot about the way they see the world.
Makes you wonder what they are afraid might be revealed. What are they hiding now?
Bit different attitude from when the chinese were trying to shut down google, that was a bad thing it seems but a bit different when the US wants to do the same thing. .
What is not doing the US any credit is the over-reaction and the determination to shut down wikileaks at any cost. For a county that lectures others on free speech and the need for freedom of the press they really shoot themselves in the foot. That US politicians can't seem to grasp that a foreign national can't be guilty of treason if they are not american is laughable. That they think they have a right to shut up foreign press says an awful lot about the way they see the world.
Makes you wonder what they are afraid might be revealed. What are they hiding now?
Bit different attitude from when the chinese were trying to shut down google, that was a bad thing it seems but a bit different when the US wants to do the same thing. .
wikileaks
gmc;1345831 wrote:
The United States' first interest in any form of biological warfare came at the close of World War I.
ROFLMAO! If you think that WIKIPEDIA has access to knowledge about the state of American Biowarfare, I've got a nice acreage in the desert near here to sell you.
This whole argument is ridiculous. Governments can't operate in the open, period. And mankind is too big to do without governments anymore so the whole debate is a moot point. Anyone idiotic enough to go up agains the governments of the world is a fool. (See: Wikileaks founder)
Let's review what Ass-ange has accomplished: He is a wanted criminal and will do time. His website is hacked, banned, and defunded. Governments all over the world are even more secretive and have upped their security. He has damaged relations between countries and made the world a more dangerous place. He has compromised effective anti-terrorist tactics and decreased everyone's safety.
So basically...he is a complete and total loser and jerk. I'll say it again, and yes Koan, I mean it. He needs to go down hard as a message to others who would play God with everyone's lives.
The United States' first interest in any form of biological warfare came at the close of World War I.
ROFLMAO! If you think that WIKIPEDIA has access to knowledge about the state of American Biowarfare, I've got a nice acreage in the desert near here to sell you.
This whole argument is ridiculous. Governments can't operate in the open, period. And mankind is too big to do without governments anymore so the whole debate is a moot point. Anyone idiotic enough to go up agains the governments of the world is a fool. (See: Wikileaks founder)
Let's review what Ass-ange has accomplished: He is a wanted criminal and will do time. His website is hacked, banned, and defunded. Governments all over the world are even more secretive and have upped their security. He has damaged relations between countries and made the world a more dangerous place. He has compromised effective anti-terrorist tactics and decreased everyone's safety.
So basically...he is a complete and total loser and jerk. I'll say it again, and yes Koan, I mean it. He needs to go down hard as a message to others who would play God with everyone's lives.
wikileaks
Saint_;1345906 wrote:
This whole argument is ridiculous. Governments can't operate in the open, period. And mankind is too big to do without governments anymore so the whole debate is a moot point. Anyone idiotic enough to go up agains the governments of the world is a fool. (See: Wikileaks founder)
Let's review what Ass-ange has accomplished: He is a wanted criminal and will do time. His website is hacked, banned, and defunded. Governments all over the world are even more secretive and have upped their security. He has damaged relations between countries and made the world a more dangerous place. He has compromised effective anti-terrorist tactics and decreased everyone's safety.
So basically...he is a complete and total loser and jerk. I'll say it again, and yes Koan, I mean it. He needs to go down hard as a message to others who would play God with everyone's lives.
You don't know that he's a criminal. At most he's been charged with crimes on flimsy evidence. So flimsy, they were initially dismissed. Did you know that GM used to hire women to chase Ralph Nader around? Nadar didn't take the bait, but even if he did, it wouldn't have mattered as to the validity of his arguments.
We insult world leaders on a regular basis (freedom fries, Iran, North Korea, etc) so the idea that we have to keep some assessments in stark opposition to public statements is hogwash. We pretty much have insulted every country for the last 50 years or more.
People will always have an excuse to hide the truth and argue for the necessity of secrecy. It's more a tool of fascism than legitimate business though. True diplomacy is based on openness, freedom of speech, and truth. Not speaking out of both sides of one's mouth, and trying to shut down the press.
The better response of the government would have been to admit they screwed up as far as security goes, and acknowledge they are not good at keeping secrets.
This whole argument is ridiculous. Governments can't operate in the open, period. And mankind is too big to do without governments anymore so the whole debate is a moot point. Anyone idiotic enough to go up agains the governments of the world is a fool. (See: Wikileaks founder)
Let's review what Ass-ange has accomplished: He is a wanted criminal and will do time. His website is hacked, banned, and defunded. Governments all over the world are even more secretive and have upped their security. He has damaged relations between countries and made the world a more dangerous place. He has compromised effective anti-terrorist tactics and decreased everyone's safety.
So basically...he is a complete and total loser and jerk. I'll say it again, and yes Koan, I mean it. He needs to go down hard as a message to others who would play God with everyone's lives.
You don't know that he's a criminal. At most he's been charged with crimes on flimsy evidence. So flimsy, they were initially dismissed. Did you know that GM used to hire women to chase Ralph Nader around? Nadar didn't take the bait, but even if he did, it wouldn't have mattered as to the validity of his arguments.
We insult world leaders on a regular basis (freedom fries, Iran, North Korea, etc) so the idea that we have to keep some assessments in stark opposition to public statements is hogwash. We pretty much have insulted every country for the last 50 years or more.
People will always have an excuse to hide the truth and argue for the necessity of secrecy. It's more a tool of fascism than legitimate business though. True diplomacy is based on openness, freedom of speech, and truth. Not speaking out of both sides of one's mouth, and trying to shut down the press.
The better response of the government would have been to admit they screwed up as far as security goes, and acknowledge they are not good at keeping secrets.
wikileaks
Ahso!;1345890 wrote: I suppose for the guy who displayed that sticker, it might be a good idea to wear a bullet proof vest while driving. Though it very well could belong to a Christian meaning the second coming Jesus, I guess. In that case "WWJD" would mean 'what WILL Jesus do'. And 'knock' might be a better choice of words instead of 'slap'. It could be a woman who designed the bumper sticker, too. There are endless possibilities, thats what makes life in America so rich.
It's mind boggling to me, to see so many people call themselves "Christians" who only support the military function of goverment (which killed their messiah) while at the same time ignoring everything their messaih said about social values (helping poor, greed is not good). These people ought to actually be called Satanists.
It's mind boggling to me, to see so many people call themselves "Christians" who only support the military function of goverment (which killed their messiah) while at the same time ignoring everything their messaih said about social values (helping poor, greed is not good). These people ought to actually be called Satanists.
wikileaks
A meaty set of cables relates to Chinese political involvement in Internet censorship. Which is a bit ironic considering USG's current behavior over Wikileaks itself.
US embassy cables: Offended Chinese politician pulled plug on Google | Technology | guardian.co.uk
US embassy cables: Offended Chinese politician pulled plug on Google | Technology | guardian.co.uk
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
wikileaks
Saint_;1345906 wrote: ROFLMAO! If you think that WIKIPEDIA has access to knowledge about the state of American Biowarfare, I've got a nice acreage in the desert near here to sell you.
This whole argument is ridiculous. Governments can't operate in the open, period. And mankind is too big to do without governments anymore so the whole debate is a moot point. Anyone idiotic enough to go up agains the governments of the world is a fool. (See: Wikileaks founder)
Let's review what Ass-ange has accomplished: He is a wanted criminal and will do time. His website is hacked, banned, and defunded. Governments all over the world are even more secretive and have upped their security. He has damaged relations between countries and made the world a more dangerous place. He has compromised effective anti-terrorist tactics and decreased everyone's safety.
So basically...he is a complete and total loser and jerk. I'll say it again, and yes Koan, I mean it. He needs to go down hard as a message to others who would play God with everyone's lives.
You seemed to suffer from the delusion that your time in the military had given you access to some kind of arcane knowledge about chemical and biological that only you and such as you have the mental capacity to be able to deal with. I was trying to point that such warfare is hardly new and the knowledge of it is in the public domain and has been for decades. The US was actually a rather late entrant in the field and probably isn't the leader in the field either. They certainly never used to be. Clearly you prefer your illusion. Perhaps you also think MAD is a brilliant concept but if people knew how many times over we could destroy ourselves it would upset joe public and they wouldn't be able to handle the knowledge.
What you are really saying, I think, is that you feel powerless against your government and prefer to just hope for the best that they know what they are doing and you have no businesds wanting to know what they are up to in your name. Such secrecy as you seem to advocate is what leads to wars. I live in a free country where I have every right to demand to know what is going on and see no reason why politicians should not be held to account. The main thing that has damaged relations between countries and made the world a more dangerous place is the idiotic policies of a government destabilising other nations in pursuit of their own narrow interests and carrying on as if what other nations thought and did has no importance and being prepared to support terrorists organisations all over the world all in the name of self interest and then being surprised when it comes home to roost. For all your vaunted constitutuion and freedoms you seem to think you have no rights as a citizen and prefer a fascist state where you just accept everything the state tells you and you have no right to question it. Certainly your state seems to prefer it's citizens don't have access to information about what is done in it's name or just relies on indifference amongst the voters. I wonder how much you know about what went on in chile, and nicaragua and whether that kind of information is censored in the states. It would surprise me if it was but after the reaction to wikileaks meybe I shouldn't be.
He's not a criminal and it will be interetsing to see what they charge Bradley Manning with and whether they will have the nervbe to give him a jury trial. All that's going to happen is that servers in other countries will pick up wikileaks in place of those companies in america that have been bullied in to shutting them down. Now that it is clear web neutrality is at risk if left to the US the business will go overseas to countries where freedom of speech is still alowed.
If wikileaks has accomplished anything it has exposed once and for all that yhe states is on it's way to becoming a fascist police state. Hopefully the american people will stop the slide. I think they will but it should be interesting to watch.
This whole argument is ridiculous. Governments can't operate in the open, period. And mankind is too big to do without governments anymore so the whole debate is a moot point. Anyone idiotic enough to go up agains the governments of the world is a fool. (See: Wikileaks founder)
Let's review what Ass-ange has accomplished: He is a wanted criminal and will do time. His website is hacked, banned, and defunded. Governments all over the world are even more secretive and have upped their security. He has damaged relations between countries and made the world a more dangerous place. He has compromised effective anti-terrorist tactics and decreased everyone's safety.
So basically...he is a complete and total loser and jerk. I'll say it again, and yes Koan, I mean it. He needs to go down hard as a message to others who would play God with everyone's lives.
You seemed to suffer from the delusion that your time in the military had given you access to some kind of arcane knowledge about chemical and biological that only you and such as you have the mental capacity to be able to deal with. I was trying to point that such warfare is hardly new and the knowledge of it is in the public domain and has been for decades. The US was actually a rather late entrant in the field and probably isn't the leader in the field either. They certainly never used to be. Clearly you prefer your illusion. Perhaps you also think MAD is a brilliant concept but if people knew how many times over we could destroy ourselves it would upset joe public and they wouldn't be able to handle the knowledge.
What you are really saying, I think, is that you feel powerless against your government and prefer to just hope for the best that they know what they are doing and you have no businesds wanting to know what they are up to in your name. Such secrecy as you seem to advocate is what leads to wars. I live in a free country where I have every right to demand to know what is going on and see no reason why politicians should not be held to account. The main thing that has damaged relations between countries and made the world a more dangerous place is the idiotic policies of a government destabilising other nations in pursuit of their own narrow interests and carrying on as if what other nations thought and did has no importance and being prepared to support terrorists organisations all over the world all in the name of self interest and then being surprised when it comes home to roost. For all your vaunted constitutuion and freedoms you seem to think you have no rights as a citizen and prefer a fascist state where you just accept everything the state tells you and you have no right to question it. Certainly your state seems to prefer it's citizens don't have access to information about what is done in it's name or just relies on indifference amongst the voters. I wonder how much you know about what went on in chile, and nicaragua and whether that kind of information is censored in the states. It would surprise me if it was but after the reaction to wikileaks meybe I shouldn't be.
He's not a criminal and it will be interetsing to see what they charge Bradley Manning with and whether they will have the nervbe to give him a jury trial. All that's going to happen is that servers in other countries will pick up wikileaks in place of those companies in america that have been bullied in to shutting them down. Now that it is clear web neutrality is at risk if left to the US the business will go overseas to countries where freedom of speech is still alowed.
If wikileaks has accomplished anything it has exposed once and for all that yhe states is on it's way to becoming a fascist police state. Hopefully the american people will stop the slide. I think they will but it should be interesting to watch.
wikileaks
gmc;1345921 wrote: You seemed to suffer from the delusion that your time in the military had given you access to some kind of arcane knowledge about chemical and biological that only you and such as you have the mental capacity to be able to deal with.
It's the truth, but you seem to suffer from the delusion that, never having had a Top Secret clearance, you nonetheless know all about the American military's secret operations. Which of the two of us is speaking from personal knowledge?
What you are really saying, I think, is that you feel powerless against your government and prefer to just hope for the best that they know what they are doing and you have no businesds wanting to know what they are up to in your name.
Nope. I just love my country and I understand that secrecy is a necessary evil for diplomacy and security. A common sense tenet, yet something you seem incapable of understanding.
I live in a free country where I have every right to demand to know what is going on and see no reason why politicians should not be held to account.
Your country's government has NO SECRETS? Hahahaha....I seriously doubt that. But, of course, unless your country's private diplomatic communications were violated, how would you possibly know that they had secrets? LOL!
The states is on it's way to becoming a fascist police state.
Aha! And now it comes out. You're an America-Hater. Well, there's bound to be some animosity by the members of a second-rate, second-world country that has to spin in the backwaters of time while the only remaining hyperpower on Earth and the greatest civilization known to mankind in all of recorded history controls things and advances.
Sorry about that, dude.;D
It's the truth, but you seem to suffer from the delusion that, never having had a Top Secret clearance, you nonetheless know all about the American military's secret operations. Which of the two of us is speaking from personal knowledge?
What you are really saying, I think, is that you feel powerless against your government and prefer to just hope for the best that they know what they are doing and you have no businesds wanting to know what they are up to in your name.
Nope. I just love my country and I understand that secrecy is a necessary evil for diplomacy and security. A common sense tenet, yet something you seem incapable of understanding.
I live in a free country where I have every right to demand to know what is going on and see no reason why politicians should not be held to account.
Your country's government has NO SECRETS? Hahahaha....I seriously doubt that. But, of course, unless your country's private diplomatic communications were violated, how would you possibly know that they had secrets? LOL!
The states is on it's way to becoming a fascist police state.
Aha! And now it comes out. You're an America-Hater. Well, there's bound to be some animosity by the members of a second-rate, second-world country that has to spin in the backwaters of time while the only remaining hyperpower on Earth and the greatest civilization known to mankind in all of recorded history controls things and advances.
Sorry about that, dude.;D
wikileaks
spot;1345911 wrote: A meaty set of cables relates to Chinese political involvement in Internet censorship. Which is a bit ironic considering USG's current behavior over Wikileaks itself.
US embassy cables: Offended Chinese politician pulled plug on Google | Technology | guardian.co.uk
So spot, even your beloved communists understand that this was a cyber-terrorist attack on world governments. How quickly you turn on your own. I would have thought you'd re-evaluate your position when your friends acted just like all the other world governments. Go figure.
US embassy cables: Offended Chinese politician pulled plug on Google | Technology | guardian.co.uk
So spot, even your beloved communists understand that this was a cyber-terrorist attack on world governments. How quickly you turn on your own. I would have thought you'd re-evaluate your position when your friends acted just like all the other world governments. Go figure.
wikileaks
Saint_;1345922 wrote: Aha! And now it comes out. You're an America-Hater. Well, there's bound to be some animosity by the members of a second-rate, second-world country that has to spin in the backwaters of time while the only remaining hyperpower on Earth and the greatest civilization known to mankind in all of recorded history controls things and advances.
Substitute "America" for "Rome" and rethink what you just said. Maybe a little historical perspective will help. Also, you might reconsider if it's a good idea to allow the government to crucify the pesky trouble makers that question how it conducts its business.
Substitute "America" for "Rome" and rethink what you just said. Maybe a little historical perspective will help. Also, you might reconsider if it's a good idea to allow the government to crucify the pesky trouble makers that question how it conducts its business.
wikileaks
yaaarrrgg;1345924 wrote: Substitute "America" for "Rome" and rethink what you just said. Maybe a little historical perspective will help. Also, you might reconsider if it's a good idea to allow the government to crucify the pesky trouble makers that question how it conducts its business.
Well.. I can visualize GMC as a barbarian, but Assange as Jesus Christ? COME ON!
Attached files
Well.. I can visualize GMC as a barbarian, but Assange as Jesus Christ? COME ON!
Attached files
wikileaks
Saint_;1345929 wrote: Well.. I can visualize GMC as a barbarian, but Assange as Jesus Christ? COME ON!
Jesus wasn't the only trouble maker they silenced.
Jesus wasn't the only trouble maker they silenced.
wikileaks
yaaarrrgg;1345930 wrote: Jesus wasn't the only trouble maker they silenced.
Well the Roman Republic (which lasted 500 years) and Roman Empire collectively survived until 1473 with the death of Constantine XI. That's a run of over 19 centuries. Looks like they knew what they were doing, eh?
I'll bet they didn't take selling state secrets lightly either.
Well the Roman Republic (which lasted 500 years) and Roman Empire collectively survived until 1473 with the death of Constantine XI. That's a run of over 19 centuries. Looks like they knew what they were doing, eh?
I'll bet they didn't take selling state secrets lightly either.
wikileaks
Look you guys, this whole thread is a debate between those who would like things to be a certain way and those who know they are not.
It's a debate between the way things might be and the way they are and always have been. A debate between illusion and reality.
Sure, I'd like it if everyone who found a wallet with money in it would turn it in to the owner. I'd like it if no one ever cheated on their spouse. It'd be great if no one ever stole or murdered or raped. But unless you have a way to change the basic nature of mankind, then that's just how things are.
People do have secrets and so do their governments.:yh_sungla
It's a debate between the way things might be and the way they are and always have been. A debate between illusion and reality.
Sure, I'd like it if everyone who found a wallet with money in it would turn it in to the owner. I'd like it if no one ever cheated on their spouse. It'd be great if no one ever stole or murdered or raped. But unless you have a way to change the basic nature of mankind, then that's just how things are.
People do have secrets and so do their governments.:yh_sungla
wikileaks
Saint_;1345933 wrote: People do have secrets and so do their governments.:yh_sungla
Maybe, but the government is supposed to work *for* the people, not the other way around.
Maybe, but the government is supposed to work *for* the people, not the other way around.
wikileaks
Saint_;1345933 wrote: Look you guys, this whole thread is a debate between those who would like things to be a certain way and those who know they are not.
It's a debate between the way things might be and the way they are and always have been. A debate between illusion and reality.You label what you do as debating? :wah: Calling others America-Haters for expressing their view is not debating, its actually childish name calling.
Saint_;1345933 wrote: Sure, I'd like it if everyone who found a wallet with money in it would turn it in to the owner. I'd like it if no one ever cheated on their spouse. It'd be great if no one ever stole or murdered or raped. But unless you have a way to change the basic nature of mankind, then that's just how things are.
People do have secrets and so do their governments.:yh_sunglaAnd if those secrets people hold include cheating on ones spouse or the knowledge of rape, incest, murder or any other lie by omission, thats okay with you? I recall how indignant you tend to become when such secrets are held. You even have gone as far as counseling others that their marriage is as good as dead because their spouse had secretive affairs.
Your double standards and double talk is very amusing.
It's a debate between the way things might be and the way they are and always have been. A debate between illusion and reality.You label what you do as debating? :wah: Calling others America-Haters for expressing their view is not debating, its actually childish name calling.
Saint_;1345933 wrote: Sure, I'd like it if everyone who found a wallet with money in it would turn it in to the owner. I'd like it if no one ever cheated on their spouse. It'd be great if no one ever stole or murdered or raped. But unless you have a way to change the basic nature of mankind, then that's just how things are.
People do have secrets and so do their governments.:yh_sunglaAnd if those secrets people hold include cheating on ones spouse or the knowledge of rape, incest, murder or any other lie by omission, thats okay with you? I recall how indignant you tend to become when such secrets are held. You even have gone as far as counseling others that their marriage is as good as dead because their spouse had secretive affairs.
Your double standards and double talk is very amusing.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
wikileaks
Saint_;1345923 wrote: So spot, even your beloved communists understand that this was a cyber-terrorist attack on world governments. How quickly you turn on your own. I would have thought you'd re-evaluate your position when your friends acted just like all the other world governments. Go figure.
What on earth has the one-party system in China to do with Communism, since Mao died?
The cables relate to China's blocking of google.com and google.cn, they have nothing to do with wikileaks.
What on earth has the one-party system in China to do with Communism, since Mao died?
The cables relate to China's blocking of google.com and google.cn, they have nothing to do with wikileaks.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
wikileaks
Saint_;1345932 wrote: Well the Roman Republic (which lasted 500 years) and Roman Empire collectively survived until 1473 with the death of Constantine XI. That's a run of over 19 centuries. Looks like they knew what they were doing, eh?
I'll bet they didn't take selling state secrets lightly either.Where did "selling" come from? Which of these US leakers are you accusing of taking money, and from whom?
If USG grants US citizenship and voting rights to the inhabitants of those territories which fall within the US Empire (a modern equivalent to the practise of the Roman Empire) I'll withdraw all objection to your expanding across the world. Otherwise, go home and defend your own borders, "liberation" without representation is unethical.
I'll bet they didn't take selling state secrets lightly either.Where did "selling" come from? Which of these US leakers are you accusing of taking money, and from whom?
If USG grants US citizenship and voting rights to the inhabitants of those territories which fall within the US Empire (a modern equivalent to the practise of the Roman Empire) I'll withdraw all objection to your expanding across the world. Otherwise, go home and defend your own borders, "liberation" without representation is unethical.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
wikileaks
Saint, you seem to be gloating that you've had access to secrets that you think other people want and taking joy in claiming that we need protection from what you know. Why not just quote good ol' Jack "You want the truth?? You can't handle the truth!!" Oh, maybe because in that film, his outburst is what breaks the case and frees the defendant. Maybe you and I just watch too many movies. Either way, if you had no more truth or exposure to government than the average joe, you'd probably be begging for wikileaks, because you seem to need something to gloat over. You got an earful that convinced you that knowing more would be harmful. Perhaps your threshold is lower than those against whom you argue.
From what I've experienced, the people who can't handle the truth actually fail to be able to retain the truth that they can't handle. It's a defense, and a brilliant one at that, of the mind. If the nervous system of the perceiver goes on overload, they block or alter their perceptions. So we don't need to manufacture the protection. Nature has handled that for us.
With the safety of the public now at rest, perhaps we can look at this without spooking.
From what I've experienced, the people who can't handle the truth actually fail to be able to retain the truth that they can't handle. It's a defense, and a brilliant one at that, of the mind. If the nervous system of the perceiver goes on overload, they block or alter their perceptions. So we don't need to manufacture the protection. Nature has handled that for us.
With the safety of the public now at rest, perhaps we can look at this without spooking.
wikileaks
posted by saint
It's the truth, but you seem to suffer from the delusion that, never having had a Top Secret clearance, you nonetheless know all about the American military's secret operations. Which of the two of us is speaking from personal knowledge?
I was talking about chemical and biological warfare which you seem to think was something new and scary - well it is scary but hardly new. You have thirty and sixty year moratorium on documents and a freedom of information act so it all eventually does comes out. So yes you can find out what was being done in your name by your security services. Maybe you should do some research and you might realise what allowing a government the secrecy to do whatever it likes can lead to. You don't live in a dictatorship you have a right to know. Perhaps if they know they would have to justify their actions sooner they might be a bit more careful
Nope. I just love my country and I understand that secrecy is a necessary evil for diplomacy and security. A common sense tenet, yet something you seem incapable of understanding.
Up to a point but when that secrecy and diplomacy ends up causing wars it's time to call a halt to it. Are you really saying that removing democracies and installing dictators because they support US interests is the kind of thing you want your government doing and you have no right to question it?
Your country's government has NO SECRETS? Hahahaha....I seriously doubt that. But, of course, unless your country's private diplomatic communications were violated, how would you possibly know that they had secrets? LOL!
Course they do but but we also have a free press that tries to expose when they do things they shouldn't be. Like sending people to be tortured or helping train the mujadadeen in Afghanistan. No government like a free press when it exposes exactly how devious the bastards really are.
posted by saint
Aha! And now it comes out. You're an America-Hater. Well, there's bound to be some animosity by the members of a second-rate, second-world country that has to spin in the backwaters of time while the only remaining hyperpower on Earth and the greatest civilization known to mankind in all of recorded history controls things and advances.
Sorry about that, dude.;D
No offence taken. You do come across as a demented fascist all that's missing is comments about the master race and you will be assimilated - or was that the borg. You are after all a foreigner and being British the opinion of foreigners is not something that really matters in the great scheme of things. I understand, it's not your fault you were born an American.
It's the truth, but you seem to suffer from the delusion that, never having had a Top Secret clearance, you nonetheless know all about the American military's secret operations. Which of the two of us is speaking from personal knowledge?
I was talking about chemical and biological warfare which you seem to think was something new and scary - well it is scary but hardly new. You have thirty and sixty year moratorium on documents and a freedom of information act so it all eventually does comes out. So yes you can find out what was being done in your name by your security services. Maybe you should do some research and you might realise what allowing a government the secrecy to do whatever it likes can lead to. You don't live in a dictatorship you have a right to know. Perhaps if they know they would have to justify their actions sooner they might be a bit more careful
Nope. I just love my country and I understand that secrecy is a necessary evil for diplomacy and security. A common sense tenet, yet something you seem incapable of understanding.
Up to a point but when that secrecy and diplomacy ends up causing wars it's time to call a halt to it. Are you really saying that removing democracies and installing dictators because they support US interests is the kind of thing you want your government doing and you have no right to question it?
Your country's government has NO SECRETS? Hahahaha....I seriously doubt that. But, of course, unless your country's private diplomatic communications were violated, how would you possibly know that they had secrets? LOL!
Course they do but but we also have a free press that tries to expose when they do things they shouldn't be. Like sending people to be tortured or helping train the mujadadeen in Afghanistan. No government like a free press when it exposes exactly how devious the bastards really are.
posted by saint
Aha! And now it comes out. You're an America-Hater. Well, there's bound to be some animosity by the members of a second-rate, second-world country that has to spin in the backwaters of time while the only remaining hyperpower on Earth and the greatest civilization known to mankind in all of recorded history controls things and advances.
Sorry about that, dude.;D
No offence taken. You do come across as a demented fascist all that's missing is comments about the master race and you will be assimilated - or was that the borg. You are after all a foreigner and being British the opinion of foreigners is not something that really matters in the great scheme of things. I understand, it's not your fault you were born an American.
wikileaks
Saint_;1345933 wrote:
Sure, I'd like it if everyone who found a wallet with money in it would turn it in to the owner. I'd like it if no one ever cheated on their spouse. It'd be great if no one ever stole or murdered or raped. But unless you have a way to change the basic nature of mankind, then that's just how things are.
People do have secrets and so do their governments.:yh_sunglaDo you understand what is meant when an individual is said to 'project'?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
Sure, I'd like it if everyone who found a wallet with money in it would turn it in to the owner. I'd like it if no one ever cheated on their spouse. It'd be great if no one ever stole or murdered or raped. But unless you have a way to change the basic nature of mankind, then that's just how things are.
People do have secrets and so do their governments.:yh_sunglaDo you understand what is meant when an individual is said to 'project'?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
wikileaks
koan;1345963 wrote: Saint, you seem to be gloating that you've had access to secrets that you think other people want and taking joy in claiming that we need protection from what you know. Why not just quote good ol' Jack "You want the truth?? You can't handle the truth!!" Oh, maybe because in that film, his outburst is what breaks the case and frees the defendant. Maybe you and I just watch too many movies. Either way, if you had no more truth or exposure to government than the average joe, you'd probably be begging for wikileaks, because you seem to need something to gloat over. You got an earful that convinced you that knowing more would be harmful. Perhaps your threshold is lower than those against whom you argue.
From what I've experienced, the people who can't handle the truth actually fail to be able to retain the truth that they can't handle. It's a defense, and a brilliant one at that, of the mind. If the nervous system of the perceiver goes on overload, they block or alter their perceptions. So we don't need to manufacture the protection. Nature has handled that for us.
With the safety of the public now at rest, perhaps we can look at this without spooking.Yes, and I'm sure the American government would be so sloppy as to grant a high level clearance of secrets to individuals who tend to gloat and exaggerate as well as engage in name calling - all immature behaviors, and displayed over the internet. If this were indeed the practice of the US, who would need wikileaks?
From what I've experienced, the people who can't handle the truth actually fail to be able to retain the truth that they can't handle. It's a defense, and a brilliant one at that, of the mind. If the nervous system of the perceiver goes on overload, they block or alter their perceptions. So we don't need to manufacture the protection. Nature has handled that for us.
With the safety of the public now at rest, perhaps we can look at this without spooking.Yes, and I'm sure the American government would be so sloppy as to grant a high level clearance of secrets to individuals who tend to gloat and exaggerate as well as engage in name calling - all immature behaviors, and displayed over the internet. If this were indeed the practice of the US, who would need wikileaks?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
wikileaks
I understand that the Swiss have now frozen Assange's assets. Even they understand this it's wrong to interfere in private diplomatic correspondence. Well, good for them!:D
wikileaks
Saint_;1346005 wrote: I understand that the Swiss have now frozen Assange's assets. Even they understand this it's wrong to interfere in private diplomatic correspondence. Well, good for them!:DThe arrogance is sickening as well as embarrassing to the rest of us Americans, with phrases like "even they understand"?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
wikileaks
There's no reason to think Switzerland is bypassing their neutrality on the issue. Assange's known addresses have become a matter of global news so it reasonably came to their attention that it didn't match their records. If Assange can show that the address given is one that he maintains then the matter would be cleared up. Lying about your address on an account application is not connected to the activities of the wikileaks site. I'm quite sure they are content to stay removed from the issue.
wikileaks
A, to me, interesting aspect of the cables is how the statements made by US diplomats are taken as fact instead of opinion. In general, a person's opinion says as much if not more about themselves as it says about the topic of which they speak. Case in point, the comments about Al-Jazeera being used as a political tool by Qatar.
Al-Jazeera is not the poodle of the Qatari emir | Mark Seddon | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
Perhaps this is also the journalistic mistake made by NYTimes in regards to Iran's arsenal. Just because a US diplomat says it is so doesn't make it true.
Al-Jazeera is not the poodle of the Qatari emir | Mark Seddon | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
Perhaps this is also the journalistic mistake made by NYTimes in regards to Iran's arsenal. Just because a US diplomat says it is so doesn't make it true.
wikileaks
My final note on this for the night, after some restraint, is that the Brit's "Serious Organised Crime Agency" is cracking me up. Is there a "Silly Organised Crime Agency"? It all sounds too Monty Python to believe. I expect King Arthur to charge in and kill the narrator at any moment.
wikileaks
Besides which, having $10,000 confiscated is pretty trivial to the chap at the moment and one would hope the Swiss would hand the cash back to him when the furore dies down a bit. Hillary's bullies say jump over something that trivial, of course the Swiss will jump, it's no skin off anyone's nose. There are more than enough people prepared to keep Mr Assange from destitution indefinitely.
Quite what the State Department will do when he goes to Sweden for this blatantly trumped-up trial, or even goes to jail, and the Wikileak cable releases continue to drip out day after day, I'll be interested to see. The dump of the entire fileset is guaranteed if the membership is genuinely threatened.
Quite what the State Department will do when he goes to Sweden for this blatantly trumped-up trial, or even goes to jail, and the Wikileak cable releases continue to drip out day after day, I'll be interested to see. The dump of the entire fileset is guaranteed if the membership is genuinely threatened.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
wikileaks
It's the sheer hypocrisy of the US government condemning china for preventing google from operating freely and then forcing them to shut down a site they don't approve of. We also have the spectacle of American politicians declaring a fatwa on assange. Maybe the secret research saint was doing was investigating irony so they can perhaps understand what people are talking about.
My final note on this for the night, after some restraint, is that the Brit's "Serious Organised Crime Agency" is cracking me up. Is there a "Silly Organised Crime Agency"? It all sounds too Monty Python to believe. I expect King Arthur to charge in and kill the narrator at any moment.
YouTube - Monty Python Ministry of Silly Walks
You need to laugh at government loudly and often.
My final note on this for the night, after some restraint, is that the Brit's "Serious Organised Crime Agency" is cracking me up. Is there a "Silly Organised Crime Agency"? It all sounds too Monty Python to believe. I expect King Arthur to charge in and kill the narrator at any moment.
YouTube - Monty Python Ministry of Silly Walks
You need to laugh at government loudly and often.
-
recovering conservative
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:28 pm
wikileaks
gmc;1345888 wrote: You can probably have a good guess at what ordinary British citizens think about that so called special relationship. pathetic sums it up pretty well and is printable.
It appears that the political outrage over wikileaks has more to do with governments wanting to preserve their right to bullshit, than it does with any claims of needing to protect agents and informants.
It appears that the political outrage over wikileaks has more to do with governments wanting to preserve their right to bullshit, than it does with any claims of needing to protect agents and informants.
-
recovering conservative
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:28 pm
wikileaks
Saint_;1345906 wrote:
This whole argument is ridiculous. Governments can't operate in the open, period. And mankind is too big to do without governments anymore so the whole debate is a moot point. Anyone idiotic enough to go up agains the governments of the world is a fool. (See: Wikileaks founder)
Let's review what Ass-ange has accomplished: He is a wanted criminal and will do time. His website is hacked, banned, and defunded. Governments all over the world are even more secretive and have upped their security. He has damaged relations between countries and made the world a more dangerous place. He has compromised effective anti-terrorist tactics and decreased everyone's safety.
So basically...he is a complete and total loser and jerk. I'll say it again, and yes Koan, I mean it. He needs to go down hard as a message to others who would play God with everyone's lives.
You are a total idiot and a water carrier in this brave new world of digital McCarthyism for playing the game of kill the messenger. Governments all over the world lie to us and to each other. While the U.S. Government is promising that the surge is working in Afghanistan; they are saying out of the other side of their mouths that the situation is hopeless and there are no honest brokers to form a legitimate government there. The Pentagon Papers revealed the same bullshit story about the Vietnam War 40 years ago! Politicians are too willing to sacrifice soldiers as pawns in their little wargames....not to mention sacrificing the billions of dollars of taxpayers' money to pay for it all. A lot people are sick of being used as pawns by the rich and powerful that seem to give you a hard-on. You are cheering on the bastards who are destroying this world. Most of us are for taking them down...hard!
This whole argument is ridiculous. Governments can't operate in the open, period. And mankind is too big to do without governments anymore so the whole debate is a moot point. Anyone idiotic enough to go up agains the governments of the world is a fool. (See: Wikileaks founder)
Let's review what Ass-ange has accomplished: He is a wanted criminal and will do time. His website is hacked, banned, and defunded. Governments all over the world are even more secretive and have upped their security. He has damaged relations between countries and made the world a more dangerous place. He has compromised effective anti-terrorist tactics and decreased everyone's safety.
So basically...he is a complete and total loser and jerk. I'll say it again, and yes Koan, I mean it. He needs to go down hard as a message to others who would play God with everyone's lives.
You are a total idiot and a water carrier in this brave new world of digital McCarthyism for playing the game of kill the messenger. Governments all over the world lie to us and to each other. While the U.S. Government is promising that the surge is working in Afghanistan; they are saying out of the other side of their mouths that the situation is hopeless and there are no honest brokers to form a legitimate government there. The Pentagon Papers revealed the same bullshit story about the Vietnam War 40 years ago! Politicians are too willing to sacrifice soldiers as pawns in their little wargames....not to mention sacrificing the billions of dollars of taxpayers' money to pay for it all. A lot people are sick of being used as pawns by the rich and powerful that seem to give you a hard-on. You are cheering on the bastards who are destroying this world. Most of us are for taking them down...hard!
wikileaks
AP has reported that the founder Assange has been arrested in the UK
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
wikileaks
So where is Tom Cruise and Matt Damon when you need them most? This saga is right up their alley.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
wikileaks
OK, so today Wikileaks released the locations of sensitive and highly-critical American locations around the world. Factories, medical facilities, and other soft targets. Al Qaeda is already discussing how to take advantage of these less-guarded, yet still critical targets.
One of them is a production facility for insulin and another is the only production facility for anti-snake venin.
If anyone is killed or injured because of this Al Qaeda will have blood on their hands, but the people here who defended this heinous action will also have blood on their consciences.
One of them is a production facility for insulin and another is the only production facility for anti-snake venin.
If anyone is killed or injured because of this Al Qaeda will have blood on their hands, but the people here who defended this heinous action will also have blood on their consciences.
wikileaks
:wah::wah:
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
wikileaks
Remarks by President Barack Obama at Town Hall Meeting with Future Chinese Leaders | The White House
PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, first of all, let me say that I have never used Twitter. I noticed that young people -- they're very busy with all these electronics. My thumbs are too clumsy to type in things on the phone. But I am a big believer in technology and I'm a big believer in openness when it comes to the flow of information. I think that the more freely information flows, the stronger the society becomes, because then citizens of countries around the world can hold their own governments accountable. They can begin to think for themselves. That generates new ideas. It encourages creativity.
And so I've always been a strong supporter of open Internet use. I'm a big supporter of non-censorship. This is part of the tradition of the United States that I discussed before, and I recognize that different countries have different traditions. I can tell you that in the United States, the fact that we have free Internet -- or unrestricted Internet access is a source of strength, and I think should be encouraged.
Now, I should tell you, I should be honest, as President of the United States, there are times where I wish information didn't flow so freely because then I wouldn't have to listen to people criticizing me all the time. I think people naturally are -- when they're in positions of power sometimes thinks, oh, how could that person say that about me, or that's irresponsible, or -- but the truth is that because in the United States information is free, and I have a lot of critics in the United States who can say all kinds of things about me, I actually think that that makes our democracy stronger and it makes me a better leader because it forces me to hear opinions that I don't want to hear. It forces me to examine what I'm doing on a day-to-day basis to see, am I really doing the very best that I could be doing for the people of the United States.
Now, as I said before, there's always a downside to technology. It also means that terrorists are able to organize on the Internet in ways that they might not have been able to do before. Extremists can mobilize. And so there's some price that you pay for openness, there's no denying that. But I think that the good outweighs the bad so much that it's better to maintain that openness. And that's part of why I'm so glad that the Internet was part of this forum. Okay?
PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, first of all, let me say that I have never used Twitter. I noticed that young people -- they're very busy with all these electronics. My thumbs are too clumsy to type in things on the phone. But I am a big believer in technology and I'm a big believer in openness when it comes to the flow of information. I think that the more freely information flows, the stronger the society becomes, because then citizens of countries around the world can hold their own governments accountable. They can begin to think for themselves. That generates new ideas. It encourages creativity.
And so I've always been a strong supporter of open Internet use. I'm a big supporter of non-censorship. This is part of the tradition of the United States that I discussed before, and I recognize that different countries have different traditions. I can tell you that in the United States, the fact that we have free Internet -- or unrestricted Internet access is a source of strength, and I think should be encouraged.
Now, I should tell you, I should be honest, as President of the United States, there are times where I wish information didn't flow so freely because then I wouldn't have to listen to people criticizing me all the time. I think people naturally are -- when they're in positions of power sometimes thinks, oh, how could that person say that about me, or that's irresponsible, or -- but the truth is that because in the United States information is free, and I have a lot of critics in the United States who can say all kinds of things about me, I actually think that that makes our democracy stronger and it makes me a better leader because it forces me to hear opinions that I don't want to hear. It forces me to examine what I'm doing on a day-to-day basis to see, am I really doing the very best that I could be doing for the people of the United States.
Now, as I said before, there's always a downside to technology. It also means that terrorists are able to organize on the Internet in ways that they might not have been able to do before. Extremists can mobilize. And so there's some price that you pay for openness, there's no denying that. But I think that the good outweighs the bad so much that it's better to maintain that openness. And that's part of why I'm so glad that the Internet was part of this forum. Okay?
-
littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
wikileaks
I saw Assonge was arrested. Though it was on Swedish rape charges not any thing about leaking information
wikileaks
littleCJelkton;1346095 wrote: I saw Assonge was arrested. Though it was on Swedish rape charges not any thing about leaking information
Except that his lawyer or someone in the last few days has indicated they think he's just being persecuted because of the leaks.
Except that his lawyer or someone in the last few days has indicated they think he's just being persecuted because of the leaks.
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
wikileaks
gmc;1346093 wrote: Remarks by President Barack Obama at Town Hall Meeting with Future Chinese Leaders | The White HouseYup, Obama has let me down quite a bit since he took office. He's done some good things, but he's also proving to be a big wuss and a person with double standards. I've never liked his choices of Rahm Emanuel, Eric Holder or his entire economic team. I believe in compromise, but not giving away the farm in the process like he tends to do. I think its safe to say to this point Obama is a one term president. He should pardon Assanage for anything he's accused of.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
-
recovering conservative
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:28 pm
wikileaks
Saint_;1346091 wrote: OK, so today Wikileaks released the locations of sensitive and highly-critical American locations around the world. Factories, medical facilities, and other soft targets. Al Qaeda is already discussing how to take advantage of these less-guarded, yet still critical targets.
Well then, you should be thanking Bradley Manning and Julian Assange for revealing the glaring security weaknesses in the U.S. defense and intelligence network! We've since learned that most of the defense communications that Manning downloaded, can be accessed by every member of that military internet....which could be in the millions! What kind of secret is that? There is an old saying that:"three people can keep a secret if two of them are later found dead." That may be a little extreme -- but the point is that the more people know of a story, the less secure the information is. I wouldn't be surprised that the Russians, Chinese, and possibly even Al Qaeda itself, already has access to this network, since all they would have had to do is find someone willing to sell information to them.
One of them is a production facility for insulin and another is the only production facility for anti-snake venin.
Didn't the Clinton Administration already do something like this in the Sudan? And then told the world it was an Al Qaeda facility for making chemical weapons?
If anyone is killed or injured because of this Al Qaeda will have blood on their hands, but the people here who defended this heinous action will also have blood on their consciences.
Total and complete bullshit! When I was young, we were told that living in a Communist country meant living under a regime that was secretive and authoritarian, and not subject to the laws and protocols that applied to the citizens of the worker's paradise. Now, people like you, who have drunk the koolaid, are telling us we are living a real life version of 24, and our secret police and politicians are a bunch of Jack Bauers out there working covertly and having to do things against the law, because that is the only way to protect us from terrorist attacks. What this represents is a test of whether America, and the rest of the Western nations will remain in any semblance of what can be called democratic.
Well then, you should be thanking Bradley Manning and Julian Assange for revealing the glaring security weaknesses in the U.S. defense and intelligence network! We've since learned that most of the defense communications that Manning downloaded, can be accessed by every member of that military internet....which could be in the millions! What kind of secret is that? There is an old saying that:"three people can keep a secret if two of them are later found dead." That may be a little extreme -- but the point is that the more people know of a story, the less secure the information is. I wouldn't be surprised that the Russians, Chinese, and possibly even Al Qaeda itself, already has access to this network, since all they would have had to do is find someone willing to sell information to them.
One of them is a production facility for insulin and another is the only production facility for anti-snake venin.
Didn't the Clinton Administration already do something like this in the Sudan? And then told the world it was an Al Qaeda facility for making chemical weapons?
If anyone is killed or injured because of this Al Qaeda will have blood on their hands, but the people here who defended this heinous action will also have blood on their consciences.
Total and complete bullshit! When I was young, we were told that living in a Communist country meant living under a regime that was secretive and authoritarian, and not subject to the laws and protocols that applied to the citizens of the worker's paradise. Now, people like you, who have drunk the koolaid, are telling us we are living a real life version of 24, and our secret police and politicians are a bunch of Jack Bauers out there working covertly and having to do things against the law, because that is the only way to protect us from terrorist attacks. What this represents is a test of whether America, and the rest of the Western nations will remain in any semblance of what can be called democratic.
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recovering conservative
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:28 pm
wikileaks
Ahso!;1346101 wrote: Yup, Obama has let me down quite a bit since he took office. He's done some good things, but he's also proving to be a big wuss and a person with double standards. I've never liked his choices of Rahm Emanuel, Eric Holder or his entire economic team. I believe in compromise, but not giving away the farm in the process like he tends to do. I think its safe to say to this point Obama is a one term president. He should pardon Assanage for anything he's accused of.
I think the liberals who voted for Obama largely fooled themselves! All these people who were swept up by emotion, did not allow their heads to ask the hard questions, such as why large investment banks, such as Goldman Sachs started donating money to his campaign before the Iowa Caucuses - when he was still a longshot, and Hillary was the expected, anointed leader of the Party. What did they expect from Sen. Barack Obama that would merit supporting his campaign? Certainly they would not have supported him if they feared he was a real reformer!
Later, he received so much corporate cash that he waived the matching funds so that his campaign did not have to abide by the limits set by campaign finance reform rules. These should have been warning signs that Obama would do little more than minor favours for his electors, and give most of his attention to pleasing the oligarchs who run things and supply the money that makes politics work. Since then, he has allowed an even more aggressive ICE campaign against undocumented aliens; allowed the war crime abuses of the Bush Administration to become established policy; intensified the war in Afghanistan; produced toothless banking reform that will lead to another financial bubble and bust; produced useless healthcare reform that did not even provide a public option which he promised right up till the arm-twisting of Congressmen began; and sadly, what few Americans are focused on right now - he is a worse president on environment issues than even George Bush! So why are so many liberal bloggers and pundits still anxiously awaiting the day when Obama will stand up to Republicans and the oligarchs? The only mistake in Barack Obama's calculations is that he knows nothing about economics, and believed his Clinton-era advisers and their promises that a few minor fixes and some duct tape would revive a stagnating economy, and give him a chance to repeat the down-the-middle strategy that Bill Clinton used in the 90's.
It's time for whatever remains of the American left to do to the Democratic Party what the Teabaggers have done to the Republican Party. It may be too late to stop the re-nomination of Obama, and get a real progressive candidate for president; but it's time that the American left realized that they have to do more than look for a saviour! They need to work at the grassroots level, and realize that they have the numbers if they can persuade a gullible, lackadaisical public that the average American is not going to join the billionaire boys club; so collective action is needed to fight the tiny minority that controls most of the money. It means reviving the union movement, and fighting for reform of media that has been allowed to be corporate-controlled, and owned by a small number of oligarchs who have so effectively controlled the message, that an astonishing 27% believe that they will be harmed if billionaires don't continue to receive their tax cuts! And since I started this already way off topic, I'll just end my rant here.
I think the liberals who voted for Obama largely fooled themselves! All these people who were swept up by emotion, did not allow their heads to ask the hard questions, such as why large investment banks, such as Goldman Sachs started donating money to his campaign before the Iowa Caucuses - when he was still a longshot, and Hillary was the expected, anointed leader of the Party. What did they expect from Sen. Barack Obama that would merit supporting his campaign? Certainly they would not have supported him if they feared he was a real reformer!
Later, he received so much corporate cash that he waived the matching funds so that his campaign did not have to abide by the limits set by campaign finance reform rules. These should have been warning signs that Obama would do little more than minor favours for his electors, and give most of his attention to pleasing the oligarchs who run things and supply the money that makes politics work. Since then, he has allowed an even more aggressive ICE campaign against undocumented aliens; allowed the war crime abuses of the Bush Administration to become established policy; intensified the war in Afghanistan; produced toothless banking reform that will lead to another financial bubble and bust; produced useless healthcare reform that did not even provide a public option which he promised right up till the arm-twisting of Congressmen began; and sadly, what few Americans are focused on right now - he is a worse president on environment issues than even George Bush! So why are so many liberal bloggers and pundits still anxiously awaiting the day when Obama will stand up to Republicans and the oligarchs? The only mistake in Barack Obama's calculations is that he knows nothing about economics, and believed his Clinton-era advisers and their promises that a few minor fixes and some duct tape would revive a stagnating economy, and give him a chance to repeat the down-the-middle strategy that Bill Clinton used in the 90's.
It's time for whatever remains of the American left to do to the Democratic Party what the Teabaggers have done to the Republican Party. It may be too late to stop the re-nomination of Obama, and get a real progressive candidate for president; but it's time that the American left realized that they have to do more than look for a saviour! They need to work at the grassroots level, and realize that they have the numbers if they can persuade a gullible, lackadaisical public that the average American is not going to join the billionaire boys club; so collective action is needed to fight the tiny minority that controls most of the money. It means reviving the union movement, and fighting for reform of media that has been allowed to be corporate-controlled, and owned by a small number of oligarchs who have so effectively controlled the message, that an astonishing 27% believe that they will be harmed if billionaires don't continue to receive their tax cuts! And since I started this already way off topic, I'll just end my rant here.
wikileaks
recovering conservative;1346075 wrote: It appears that the political outrage over wikileaks has more to do with governments wanting to preserve their right to bullshit, than it does with any claims of needing to protect agents and informants.
And protect from whom, anyway? Governments know material like this already. The only category on the planet who has so far not known it is the out-of-the-loop general public, not foreign governments. Who are these diplomatic cables being protected from? The number of authorized US readers for this material (and the Afghan and Iraq reaffic too) is around two million, it's scarcely what anyone would normally call secret.
And protect from whom, anyway? Governments know material like this already. The only category on the planet who has so far not known it is the out-of-the-loop general public, not foreign governments. Who are these diplomatic cables being protected from? The number of authorized US readers for this material (and the Afghan and Iraq reaffic too) is around two million, it's scarcely what anyone would normally call secret.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
wikileaks
When a girl says "no" and you don't stop, that's rape. So the snitch who ratted out America is a rapist. Well...that makes twisted sense. What's next? 
wikileaks
spot;1346108 wrote: Governments know material like this already.
No, Al Queda did NOT have a list of sensitive soft targets that would have an immediate effect on America if attacked. Places like an insulin producing factory overseas and the only anti-snake venin facility. Al Qaeda operatives are already talking on the internet about how to attack and take advantage of these soft targets. So much for the "who would it hurt?' theory. Assange has made EVERYONE'S life harder and more dangerous. I truly hope the entire world falls on his head like a ton of bricks. Looks like that will happen too!
No, Al Queda did NOT have a list of sensitive soft targets that would have an immediate effect on America if attacked. Places like an insulin producing factory overseas and the only anti-snake venin facility. Al Qaeda operatives are already talking on the internet about how to attack and take advantage of these soft targets. So much for the "who would it hurt?' theory. Assange has made EVERYONE'S life harder and more dangerous. I truly hope the entire world falls on his head like a ton of bricks. Looks like that will happen too!
wikileaks
Saint_;1346119 wrote: When a girl says "no" and you don't stop, that's rape. So the snitch who ratted out America is a rapist. Well...that makes twisted sense. What's next?
Did you just call Obama a girl? :wah:
That's a really bad analogy. If you stretched it any more I'd fear for you safety when it suddenly snaps back at you.
Did you just call Obama a girl? :wah:
That's a really bad analogy. If you stretched it any more I'd fear for you safety when it suddenly snaps back at you.