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gmc
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Post by gmc »

Saint_;1346121 wrote: No, Al Queda did NOT have a list of sensitive soft targets that would have an immediate effect on America if attacked. Places like an insulin producing factory overseas and the only anti-snake venin facility. Al Qaeda operatives are already talking on the internet about how to attack and take advantage of these soft targets. So much for the "who would it hurt?' theory. Assange has made EVERYONE'S life harder and more dangerous. I truly hope the entire world falls on his head like a ton of bricks. Looks like that will happen too!


If al quaeda really wanted to cause terror in america all they need to do is start planting car bombs or just bombs at random intervals in big cities, blow up petrol tankers and the like, there would be nothing you could do to prevent such attacks. You do not need elaborate plots to terrorise people and cause hysteria. Timothy McVeigh did it with a truck bomb, it's not as though getting your hands on weapons and explosives is that difficult is it
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

Saint_;1345709 wrote: [QUOTE=gmc;1345708]I thought you swore allegiance to the constitution of the united states not the state itself. The pledge I took states that I 'will defend the United Stated of America against all enemies, foreign or domestic" as I recall.
I swore to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. " I looked it up to be sure I'd remembered it right. I'd forgotten the 'true faith & allegiance' part. I took the oath five times, but it's been 12 or 13 years since the last one.

I'm truly torn on this one. I don't like secrets and believe they should be kept to an absolute minimum. I'm more along gmc's line on this than Saint, though dchistoryman's view is probably the most sane in this thread. It seems that the first instinct is to keep something secret until we can prove it shouldn't be, while it probably ought to be the other way round.
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Bryn Mawr
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

flopstock;1346088 wrote: AP has reported that the founder Assange has been arrested in the UK


Possibly intended to give a false impression of what happened - when Sweden raised the extradition papers he went to the police station by appointment to answer the charges.
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Bryn Mawr
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Saint_;1346119 wrote: When a girl says "no" and you don't stop, that's rape. So the snitch who ratted out America is a rapist. Well...that makes twisted sense. What's next? :(


There is none so blind as he who does not wish to see :-(

By the way, do you have any evidence for your statement that he IS a rapist?
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Post by gmc »

Accountable;1346164 wrote: I swore to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. " I looked it up to be sure I'd remembered it right. I'd forgotten the 'true faith & allegiance' part. I took the oath five times, but it's been 12 or 13 years since the last one.

I'm truly torn on this one. I don't like secrets and believe they should be kept to an absolute minimum. I'm more along gmc's line on this than Saint, though dchistoryman's view is probably the most sane in this thread. It seems that the first instinct is to keep something secret until we can prove it shouldn't be, while it probably ought to be the other way round.


You can only hold your government to account when you know what they are up to. If they think they can get away with lies then they will. Whatever the outcome you can't put the genie back in the bottle. It's not outsiders that are turning America in to a police state or yelling fatwa at anyone who dares to criticise.
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Post by koan »

oh, I see, apparently Assange is the snitch. He's also apparently guilty until proven innocent. :p

Assange is not Wikileaks. I read the comment that the US government asked Wikileaks to not release the papers and they did so Wikileaks is a rapist. lol See what happens when facts aren't kept clean?
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Post by Chookie »

Saint_;1346091 wrote: If anyone is killed or injured because of this Al Qaeda will have blood on their hands, but the people here who defended this heinous action will also have blood on their consciences.
Al-Qaeda already have blood on their hands -they are terrorists after all - Assange is not. Neither is he a traitor or a spy.

When he turns up dead (accidentally of course), his blood will be on the consciences of people like yourself and Sarah Palin. Deal with it. What you and she are doing is inciting murder and you and every one of you be charged with conspiracy either to commit murder or being accessory to murder.

I'll finish with a traditional Scottish blessing -"Hell mend ye".
An ye harm none, do what ye will....
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Post by koan »

As stupid as this sounds, at least someone in the US Government finally admitted that if WikiLeaks is guilty of crime for publishing, so are the other newgroups.

A leading US senator suggested tonight that the New York Times and other news organisations publishing the US embassy cables being released by WikiLeaks could be investigated for breaking US espionage laws.

Joe Lieberman, the chair of the Senate homeland security committee, told Fox News: "To me the New York Times has committed at least an act of, at best, bad citizenship, but whether they have committed a crime is a matter of discussion for the justice department."
WikiLeaks: US Senator Joe Lieberman suggests New York Times could be investigated | World news | guardian.co.uk

Then, of course, we have the oddity of Obama banning anyone connected or aspiring to the government from reading the restricted cables... because they are restricted... even though every other person in the world will know what the cables say... it's somehow better if people in the government don't know what everyone else knows... ok. I'll just stop here as the silliness is rather obvious.

Columbia students told job prospects harmed if they access WikiLeaks cables | Media | The Guardian

Sometimes it's better to let people think you're an idiot than to prove it.
gmc
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Post by gmc »

BBC News - Newsnight - Shirky and Taleb debate if internet is a tool for democracy

If it was russian cables that were being released the US govt would be hailing wikileaks as heroes fighting for liberty and free speech.
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Post by koan »

It surprises me when people assess the value of WikiLeaks based on whether or not it is helping American people. That's not the issue. What about the rest of the people in the world? WikiLeaks is not an American organization so why should it have America's best interests as a prime concern? The proper question, imo, is whether or not it is championing freedom of speech in the world as a whole. Sorry, America, you do some good things but I don't consider the needs of the US as more important than the needs of any other country. If an ambassador is negotiating with another government while setting up harmful plots against them elsewhere, the country being manipulated is sure as heck going to say WikiLeaks helped the people of their country and not give a crap about what it did for Americans.

What if diplomacy is destroyed, hypocrisy is revealed, and the US is laughed at any time they claim to be a superpower? That would be a terrible change for the American people but, imo, a really good thing for the future of the rest of the world. Diplomacy being destroyed doesn't mean that countries will attack each other with bombs. It just means that next time a US ambassador tries to tell another country how to handle their affairs the other country might tell them to shut up and sit down. What if the US loses their position as a superpower because the other countries band together to exclude the US from their decision making processes? To think that is bad for the world you'd have to first believe that the US is superior and knows what's best for everyone else. I simply don't believe that.

So far the US has admitted that no WikiLeaks information has caused bodily harm to a single individual... though many Americans (and a Canadian) have called for bodily harm to the founder of the site. So Assange has, thus far, only actually caused threats to himself.
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Post by Saint_ »

koan;1346275 wrote: Sorry, America, you do some good things but I don't consider the needs of the US as more important than the needs of any other country. .


NUKE CANADA! Seriously, it's apparent it's time to absorb the wayward little country north of us. they can't possibly stand against the US and they are really little clones of us anyway. They'll enjoy being completely American.
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Post by gmc »

Saint_;1346332 wrote: NUKE CANADA! Seriously, it's apparent it's time to absorb the wayward little country north of us. they can't possibly stand against the US and they are really little clones of us anyway. They'll enjoy being completely American.


They passed the intelligence test in 1776 and stayed british for a while longer what makes you think they would want to change now? :sneaky: What is it you have to offer that is so much better than being Canadian?
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Post by Saint_ »

Oh it's not a matter of what they want, they have resources we need just like Iraq. We'll just "annex" them for their own good.:D
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Post by flopstock »

gmc;1346335 wrote: They passed the intelligence test in 1776 and stayed british for a while longer what makes you think they would want to change now? :sneaky: What is it you have to offer that is so much better than being Canadian?


We don't finish every sentence with 'eh', ya know?
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.

Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6

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Post by koan »

No, you finish every sentence with "huh?" which is further evidence that y'all don't really know what is going on. lol
gmc
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Post by gmc »

koan;1346379 wrote: No, you finish every sentence with "huh?" which is further evidence that y'all don't really know what is going on. lol


I wouldn't worry, if they run true to form they will probably invade Alaska to prevent the Russians getting the oil there. :yh_rotfl
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Post by gmc »

As if there wasn't enough reason for the irish to be pissed off at their government

Ireland granted immunity to sex abuse church officials under pressure from Vatican, says WikiLeaks


Wikileaks: Ireland granted immunity to 'sex abuse' church officials under pressure from Vatican | Mail Online

The U.S. ambassador to the Holy See also condemned the leaks and said the Vatican and America cooperate in promoting universal values.:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

Yes and that's bow the knee, just do what you are told, and believe you have no right to question our authority. We are the Light of the World.

US may pass new law to prosecute Assange - Americas, World - The Independent

Perhaps they will call it the lynch mob law. Would a jury convict him do you think or will it be a non jury trial? I can't see any nation having the nerve to hand him over to the americans since the odds of the trial being fair are nil to non existent. It would surely be against all the human rights legislation in just about every civilised country on the planet as a politically motivated trial.
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Post by Accountable »

We can't pass ex post facto law, a law to prosecute someone for something done before the law was passed.
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Post by gmc »

Accountable;1346458 wrote: We can't pass ex post facto law, a law to prosecute someone for something done before the law was passed.


Some of your lawmakers seem not to be aware of that. I just can't see assange being handed over to the states by any country. Maybe it will all serve as a wake up call to americans as to what their country has become - assuming of course they are aware of ans get a chance to read the cables for themselves.
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Post by Accountable »

I'm not allowed to tell you why. Some Gardeners get upset when I type the "C"-word. They take great offense.
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Post by gmc »

Accountable;1346466 wrote: I'm not allowed to tell you why. Some Gardeners get upset when I type the "C"-word. They take great offense.


Give me a clue then. is it a four letter word. ten letter, nine letter, six letter? This is going to niggle until I know.
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Post by Accountable »

gmc;1346467 wrote: Give me a clue then. is it a four letter word. ten letter, nine letter, six letter? This is going to niggle until I know.


The C-word
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Post by littleCJelkton »

Accountable;1346492 wrote: The C-word


were turning this in to a game thread I guess

Carrot

Cake

Cool

Compationate

Compartment

Cooperation

Cancel

Casual

Celery
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Post by Accountable »

:wah: It's a link!
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Post by littleCJelkton »

I know if not say it but point directly what you were going to say why not say it to begin with it. Either that or finish whatever discussion you have on other threads that makes you feel that you can use the word constitution.
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Post by Ahso! »

Accountable;1346466 wrote: I'm not allowed to tell you why. Some Gardeners get upset when I type the "C"-word. They take great offense.The victim card again?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



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Sink back into the ocean

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koan
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Post by koan »

Yeah, it's unconstitutional. I thought it was a funny way of saying it. Regardless of other contexts that may be drawn from other threads to refusal to say the word it certainly fits in to the context of this thread.

Meanwhile, I'm so utterly bored by journalists slacking off on the weekend. What up people? Some one somewhere has gotta be asking what the cables say about Israel.
gmc
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Post by gmc »

koan;1346522 wrote: Yeah, it's unconstitutional. I thought it was a funny way of saying it. Regardless of other contexts that may be drawn from other threads to refusal to say the word it certainly fits in to the context of this thread.

Meanwhile, I'm so utterly bored by journalists slacking off on the weekend. What up people? Some one somewhere has gotta be asking what the cables say about Israel.


Israel primed to attack a nuclear Iran


Israel primed to attack a nuclear Iran | World news | The Guardian

An American bunker busting bomb being handled on the USS Kitty Hawk aircraft carrier An American bunker busting bomb being handled on the USS Kitty Hawk aircraft carrier. The US and Israel wanted to keep quiet that Israel was buying the weapons, fearing it would look like preparations for attacking Iranian nuclear facilities. Photograph: Reuters


personally i think Pakistan is a bigger danger.

WikiLeaks cables expose Pakistan nuclear fears | World news | The Guardian

The ambassador starkly informed Washington that "no amount of money" from the US would stop the Pakistani army backing Islamist militants and the Afghan Taliban insurgency.

• The US concluded Pakistani troops were responsible for a spate of extrajudicial killings in the Swat Valley and tribal belt but decided not to comment publicly to allow the army to take action on its own.






The Russians shared concerns Pakistan was "highly unstable". Yuri Korolev, from the Russian foreign ministry, told US officials: "Islamists are not only seeking power in Pakistan but are also trying to get their hands on nuclear materials."
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

I spent a thoroughly enjoyable evening yesterday at a diner party, much of it talking to an ex-pat American.

It amused me no end when he expressed his outrage at the US hosting next year's World Press Freedom Day and the acceptance speech extolling the virtues of free reporting and transparency of government.

He also asked how the Chinese will stop from laughing out loud next time the US berate them for censorship.

Now, I might think it, but for an American to say it was indeed refreshing.
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Post by Ahso! »

Some Americans here have made similar statements.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

Fiona Apple
gmc
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Post by gmc »

posted by ahso

Some Americans here have made similar statements.


How do ordinary americans feel about wikileaks? Trawling you tube doesn't really inform very much - although the more hysterical right wing ones are quite funny.

What's happening to Bradley Manning, has he been charged with anything yet?

I don't see how they can stop wikileaks without passing a law to stop any kind of investigative journalism in the states but they can hardly try and extend that to other country's journalists
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Post by gmc »

YouTube - WikiLeaks chief Julian Assange talks to RT

Don't know who RT are but you might find this of interest
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

gmc;1347453 wrote: YouTube - WikiLeaks chief Julian Assange talks to RT

Don't know who RT are but you might find this of interest


Russia Today?
gmc
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Post by gmc »

Bryn Mawr;1347454 wrote: Russia Today?


:o:o Now you've pointed that out it was really obvious wasn't it. I mean Russia today written underneath was really hard to miss. I was thinking it was RTE or something but was puzzled as to why the accents were sounded strange. Didn't know Russia did english news programmes. Interesting. I came across it rummaging around you tube.
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