West Virginia people puzzle me. I guess I do understand why they seem to be so religious. The coal mines seem very scary. I would want God on my side if I had to work in mines. but they seem to vote Republican so much and yet they should welcome Federal oversight of mines. They are at the mercy of unscrupulous mine owners and are afraid to speak out against the owners. I do not know how many belong to unions but the Republican party is against unions and against higher pay for workers. They like corporations so it seems the people would vote Democrat. But no, they vote against themselves.West Virginia
West Virginia
West Virginia people puzzle me. I guess I do understand why they seem to be so religious. The coal mines seem very scary. I would want God on my side if I had to work in mines. but they seem to vote Republican so much and yet they should welcome Federal oversight of mines. They are at the mercy of unscrupulous mine owners and are afraid to speak out against the owners. I do not know how many belong to unions but the Republican party is against unions and against higher pay for workers. They like corporations so it seems the people would vote Democrat. But no, they vote against themselves.West Virginia
Okie;1302422 wrote: 
West Virginia people puzzle me. I guess I do understand why they seem to be so religious. The coal mines seem very scary. I would want God on my side if I had to work in mines. but they seem to vote Republican so much and yet they should welcome Federal oversight of mines. They are at the mercy of unscrupulous mine owners and are afraid to speak out against the owners. I do not know how many belong to unions but the Republican party is against unions and against higher pay for workers. They like corporations so it seems the people would vote Democrat. But no, they vote against themselves.
Go ahead, say it. It'S ALL BUSH'S FAULT. No one should want the government involved in every facet of our lives. Unless you are european and don't mind being babysat all your life..
West Virginia people puzzle me. I guess I do understand why they seem to be so religious. The coal mines seem very scary. I would want God on my side if I had to work in mines. but they seem to vote Republican so much and yet they should welcome Federal oversight of mines. They are at the mercy of unscrupulous mine owners and are afraid to speak out against the owners. I do not know how many belong to unions but the Republican party is against unions and against higher pay for workers. They like corporations so it seems the people would vote Democrat. But no, they vote against themselves.Go ahead, say it. It'S ALL BUSH'S FAULT. No one should want the government involved in every facet of our lives. Unless you are european and don't mind being babysat all your life..
West Virginia
hoppy;1302432 wrote: Go ahead, say it. It'S ALL BUSH'S FAULT. No one should want the government involved in every facet of our lives. Unless you are european and don't mind being babysat all your life..
Well if being American means you tolerate employers forcing you to work in unsafe conditions you're welcome to it.
Steelworkers’ President Leo Gerard: If Miners Were Union, They Could Have Refused Unsafe Work at Massey | Work in Progress
The government is involved in every facet of your life whether you like it or not. You seem to think ordinary people should have no say in how they are involved. If an employer says jump do you believe the only question an employee should ask is how high?
Well if being American means you tolerate employers forcing you to work in unsafe conditions you're welcome to it.
Steelworkers’ President Leo Gerard: If Miners Were Union, They Could Have Refused Unsafe Work at Massey | Work in Progress
The government is involved in every facet of your life whether you like it or not. You seem to think ordinary people should have no say in how they are involved. If an employer says jump do you believe the only question an employee should ask is how high?
West Virginia
hoppy;1302432 wrote: Go ahead, say it. It'S ALL BUSH'S FAULT. No one should want the government involved in every facet of our lives. Unless you are european and don't mind being babysat all your life..
Perhaps people need "babysat" hoppy
Perhaps people need "babysat" hoppy
West Virginia
K.Snyder;1302473 wrote: Perhaps people need "babysat" hoppy
Too many people expect to be babysat through life and that's part of our problem.
Too many people expect to be babysat through life and that's part of our problem.
West Virginia
[QUOTE=gmc;1302470]Well if being American means you tolerate employers forcing you to work in unsafe conditions you're welcome to it.
Steelworkers’ President Leo Gerard: If Miners Were Union, They Could Have Refused Unsafe Work at Massey | Work in Progress
The government is involved in every facet of your life whether you like it or not. You seem to think ordinary people should have no say in how they are involved. If an employer says jump do you believe the only question an employee should ask is how high?
You mean like government is doing, more and more?
Steelworkers’ President Leo Gerard: If Miners Were Union, They Could Have Refused Unsafe Work at Massey | Work in Progress
The government is involved in every facet of your life whether you like it or not. You seem to think ordinary people should have no say in how they are involved. If an employer says jump do you believe the only question an employee should ask is how high?
You mean like government is doing, more and more?
West Virginia
hoppy;1302478 wrote: [QUOTE=gmc;1302470]Well if being American means you tolerate employers forcing you to work in unsafe conditions you're welcome to it.
Steelworkers’ President Leo Gerard: If Miners Were Union, They Could Have Refused Unsafe Work at Massey | Work in Progress
The government is involved in every facet of your life whether you like it or not. You seem to think ordinary people should have no say in how they are involved. If an employer says jump do you believe the only question an employee should ask is how high?
You mean like government is doing, more and more?
I don't know about the states but we do have a problem with a govt that likes to micromanage everything - it even took over the distribution of salt for the roads for goodness sake. People here are about to change the government. It's a curious thing uk voters are slow to anger and we have a set of politicaisn that have forgotten they don't have a right to rule. The states seem to have a problem in that companies can pretty do what they like and employees have no defence and are terrified of losing their jobs. If there are no other jobs in an area a big employer has a lot of power over employees worried about their jobs. - you need a balance between the two. This mining company seems to be getting away with murder.
Actually british politics is really depressing just now. At least we can look at the states and appreciate yours are worse:sneaky: In a UK context my politics are pretty much centre ground. I think in the states I would be classed as loony left liberal or something.
Steelworkers’ President Leo Gerard: If Miners Were Union, They Could Have Refused Unsafe Work at Massey | Work in Progress
The government is involved in every facet of your life whether you like it or not. You seem to think ordinary people should have no say in how they are involved. If an employer says jump do you believe the only question an employee should ask is how high?
You mean like government is doing, more and more?
I don't know about the states but we do have a problem with a govt that likes to micromanage everything - it even took over the distribution of salt for the roads for goodness sake. People here are about to change the government. It's a curious thing uk voters are slow to anger and we have a set of politicaisn that have forgotten they don't have a right to rule. The states seem to have a problem in that companies can pretty do what they like and employees have no defence and are terrified of losing their jobs. If there are no other jobs in an area a big employer has a lot of power over employees worried about their jobs. - you need a balance between the two. This mining company seems to be getting away with murder.
Actually british politics is really depressing just now. At least we can look at the states and appreciate yours are worse:sneaky: In a UK context my politics are pretty much centre ground. I think in the states I would be classed as loony left liberal or something.
West Virginia
Okie;1302422 wrote: West Virginia people puzzle me. I guess I do understand why they seem to be so religious. The coal mines seem very scary. I would want God on my side if I had to work in mines. but they seem to vote Republican so much and yet they should welcome Federal oversight of mines. They are at the mercy of unscrupulous mine owners and are afraid to speak out against the owners. I do not know how many belong to unions but the Republican party is against unions and against higher pay for workers. They like corporations so it seems the people would vote Democrat. But no, they vote against themselves.
There's been so many of these awful mine disasters. Something is clearly very very wrong there, Okie!!
West Virginia people puzzle me. I guess I do understand why they seem to be so religious. The coal mines seem very scary. I would want God on my side if I had to work in mines. but they seem to vote Republican so much and yet they should welcome Federal oversight of mines. They are at the mercy of unscrupulous mine owners and are afraid to speak out against the owners. I do not know how many belong to unions but the Republican party is against unions and against higher pay for workers. They like corporations so it seems the people would vote Democrat. But no, they vote against themselves.There's been so many of these awful mine disasters. Something is clearly very very wrong there, Okie!!
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"
West Virginia
That's a nasty environment to work in.
My dog's a cross between a Shihtzu and a Bulldog... It's a Bullsh!t..
West Virginia
hoppy;1302475 wrote: Too many people expect to be babysat through life and that's part of our problem.
The definitions of your "babysat" and mine are very much different hoppy. I would suggest that it takes 1000's of deaths at the hands of real-estate owners to get at least an inch of acceptable "business" laws but it's entirely a bold faced lie. Why? Because those damn leaches could care less about an entire race of people let alone "a mere" 1000.
America has grown up seeing death after death yet it takes a monumental episode to rile people up enough to change their legislation. Yes that's right we're right back square faced with "Perhaps people need "babysat" hoppy" and it couldn't be further from the truth. Go on give it a search ingian hoppy.
America grew up on enslaving workers. American capitalist pigs love it when they brainwash people enough to assume unions are wrong when the very definition highlights the voraciousness of mice suffering from micropenis syndrome is all I can guess.
The definitions of your "babysat" and mine are very much different hoppy. I would suggest that it takes 1000's of deaths at the hands of real-estate owners to get at least an inch of acceptable "business" laws but it's entirely a bold faced lie. Why? Because those damn leaches could care less about an entire race of people let alone "a mere" 1000.
America has grown up seeing death after death yet it takes a monumental episode to rile people up enough to change their legislation. Yes that's right we're right back square faced with "Perhaps people need "babysat" hoppy" and it couldn't be further from the truth. Go on give it a search ingian hoppy.
America grew up on enslaving workers. American capitalist pigs love it when they brainwash people enough to assume unions are wrong when the very definition highlights the voraciousness of mice suffering from micropenis syndrome is all I can guess.
West Virginia
K.Snyder;1302541 wrote: The definitions of your "babysat" and mine are very much different hoppy. I would suggest that it takes 1000's of deaths at the hands of real-estate owners to get at least an inch of acceptable "business" laws but it's entirely a bold faced lie. Why? Because those damn leaches could care less about an entire race of people let alone "a mere" 1000.
America has grown up seeing death after death yet it takes a monumental episode to rile people up enough to change their legislation. Yes that's right we're right back square faced with "Perhaps people need "babysat" hoppy" and it couldn't be further from the truth. Go on give it a search ingian hoppy.
America grew up on enslaving workers. American capitalist pigs love it when they brainwash people enough to assume unions are wrong when the very definition highlights the voraciousness of mice suffering from micropenis syndrome is all I can guess.
Anyone who thinks a coal mine can be made safe is just pi$$ing into the wind.
America has grown up seeing death after death yet it takes a monumental episode to rile people up enough to change their legislation. Yes that's right we're right back square faced with "Perhaps people need "babysat" hoppy" and it couldn't be further from the truth. Go on give it a search ingian hoppy.
America grew up on enslaving workers. American capitalist pigs love it when they brainwash people enough to assume unions are wrong when the very definition highlights the voraciousness of mice suffering from micropenis syndrome is all I can guess.
Anyone who thinks a coal mine can be made safe is just pi$$ing into the wind.
West Virginia
Okie;1302422 wrote: West Virginia people puzzle me. I guess I do understand why they seem to be so religious. The coal mines seem very scary. I would want God on my side if I had to work in mines. but they seem to vote Republican so much and yet they should welcome Federal oversight of mines. They are at the mercy of unscrupulous mine owners and are afraid to speak out against the owners. I do not know how many belong to unions but the Republican party is against unions and against higher pay for workers. They like corporations so it seems the people would vote Democrat. But no, they vote against themselves.
I grew up in West Virginia. I don't believe the people are more or less religious than people in any other state. I grew up in the northern panhandle where steel is, or was, the big industry. The union is just another reason to take money from the workers. After seeing what these workers endure, I don't believe a union or not would make a difference in the mines. I have to wonder if these miners knew of all the safety violations. If they did, I wonder if it would make a difference. You can't say, "My job isn't safe", and just not go to work. Police and firefighters could say that every day of their lives. I blame the owners, the agencies that have sited them, etc. I do not blame the people who were just trying to support their families.
West Virginia people puzzle me. I guess I do understand why they seem to be so religious. The coal mines seem very scary. I would want God on my side if I had to work in mines. but they seem to vote Republican so much and yet they should welcome Federal oversight of mines. They are at the mercy of unscrupulous mine owners and are afraid to speak out against the owners. I do not know how many belong to unions but the Republican party is against unions and against higher pay for workers. They like corporations so it seems the people would vote Democrat. But no, they vote against themselves.I grew up in West Virginia. I don't believe the people are more or less religious than people in any other state. I grew up in the northern panhandle where steel is, or was, the big industry. The union is just another reason to take money from the workers. After seeing what these workers endure, I don't believe a union or not would make a difference in the mines. I have to wonder if these miners knew of all the safety violations. If they did, I wonder if it would make a difference. You can't say, "My job isn't safe", and just not go to work. Police and firefighters could say that every day of their lives. I blame the owners, the agencies that have sited them, etc. I do not blame the people who were just trying to support their families.
West Virginia
hoppy;1302614 wrote: Anyone who thinks a coal mine can be made safe is just pi$$ing into the wind.
Not 100% safe but certainly safer. I gather the issue is whether the owners of this mine were did actually make any effort to ensure things were as safe as possible. Mining's dangerous just get on with it is not really much of an attitude is it?
So if your employer told you to do something dangerous would you just accept it as part of the job? How about something like working with chemicals that are carcinogenic, how would you feel if you got cancer and subsequently found out your employer knew it would happen and could have provided protective clothing but didn't because of the cost. Would you just accept your fate because you didn't expect to be mollycoddled and it made the company more profit or would you think you had a reasonable cause to sue?
I just can't picture you as someone who touches his forelock and does as he's told by the boss without question. Actually I can't picture you at all but never mind.
Not 100% safe but certainly safer. I gather the issue is whether the owners of this mine were did actually make any effort to ensure things were as safe as possible. Mining's dangerous just get on with it is not really much of an attitude is it?
So if your employer told you to do something dangerous would you just accept it as part of the job? How about something like working with chemicals that are carcinogenic, how would you feel if you got cancer and subsequently found out your employer knew it would happen and could have provided protective clothing but didn't because of the cost. Would you just accept your fate because you didn't expect to be mollycoddled and it made the company more profit or would you think you had a reasonable cause to sue?
I just can't picture you as someone who touches his forelock and does as he's told by the boss without question. Actually I can't picture you at all but never mind.
West Virginia
The CEO should be required to actually be in mines with the worker. My guess is they would get a heck of a lot safer.
West Virginia
hoppy;1302614 wrote: Anyone who thinks a coal mine can be made safe is just pi$$ing into the wind.
You can be safe from the build up of Methane fairly simply and cheaply though. Air pressure keeps methane in the coal seam. A barometer lets you know when it's being released, and a Methanometer detects percentages in the body of air. Methane is explosive, above 5% and below 15%. Mine supervisors should do simple checks like this several times a day.
You can be safe from the build up of Methane fairly simply and cheaply though. Air pressure keeps methane in the coal seam. A barometer lets you know when it's being released, and a Methanometer detects percentages in the body of air. Methane is explosive, above 5% and below 15%. Mine supervisors should do simple checks like this several times a day.
My dog's a cross between a Shihtzu and a Bulldog... It's a Bullsh!t..
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Kathy Ellen
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West Virginia
Update on the West Virginia miner's tragedy. This is so sad:(
Missing West Virginia miners found dead, blast toll at 29 - International Business Times
Missing West Virginia miners found dead, blast toll at 29 - International Business Times
West Virginia
gmc;1302739 wrote: Not 100% safe but certainly safer. I gather the issue is whether the owners of this mine were did actually make any effort to ensure things were as safe as possible. Mining's dangerous just get on with it is not really much of an attitude is it?
So if your employer told you to do something dangerous would you just accept it as part of the job? How about something like working with chemicals that are carcinogenic, how would you feel if you got cancer and subsequently found out your employer knew it would happen and could have provided protective clothing but didn't because of the cost. Would you just accept your fate because you didn't expect to be mollycoddled and it made the company more profit or would you think you had a reasonable cause to sue?
I just can't picture you as someone who touches his forelock and does as he's told by the boss without question. Actually I can't picture you at all but never mind.
What, pray tell, makes you think a coal mine can be as safe as someone's office cubicle? I've seen coal mines. The hazards occure on a never ending frequency. Safe today, dangerous tomorrow, or even the next hour. Miners know this and accept it. They know the laws of probability may someday catch up to them. Otherwise, they would flee the area and do something else to earn a living.
Show me a disaster the press and media has not blown all askew with their guesswork, half a$$ed broadcasting.
So if your employer told you to do something dangerous would you just accept it as part of the job? How about something like working with chemicals that are carcinogenic, how would you feel if you got cancer and subsequently found out your employer knew it would happen and could have provided protective clothing but didn't because of the cost. Would you just accept your fate because you didn't expect to be mollycoddled and it made the company more profit or would you think you had a reasonable cause to sue?
I just can't picture you as someone who touches his forelock and does as he's told by the boss without question. Actually I can't picture you at all but never mind.
What, pray tell, makes you think a coal mine can be as safe as someone's office cubicle? I've seen coal mines. The hazards occure on a never ending frequency. Safe today, dangerous tomorrow, or even the next hour. Miners know this and accept it. They know the laws of probability may someday catch up to them. Otherwise, they would flee the area and do something else to earn a living.
Show me a disaster the press and media has not blown all askew with their guesswork, half a$$ed broadcasting.
West Virginia
hoppy;1302893 wrote: What, pray tell, makes you think a coal mine can be as safe as someone's office cubicle? I've seen coal mines. The hazards occure on a never ending frequency. Safe today, dangerous tomorrow, or even the next hour. Miners know this and accept it. They know the laws of probability may someday catch up to them. Otherwise, they would flee the area and do something else to earn a living.
Show me a disaster the press and media has not blown all askew with their guesswork, half a$$ed broadcasting.
Where have I said that mines can be as safe as someone's office cubicle? I said you could make them safer. Crossing a busy road is inherently dangerous but you make it safer by looking before you actually cross or maybe using a pedestrian crossing and introducing speed limits in towns.
The laws of probability might still catch you out but you can better the odds by taking precautions. The kind of logic you are using would suggest that you would oppose speed limits and pedestrian crossings because the hazard of crossing a road occur in a never ending frequency and death is inevitable. The issue here is whether the mine owner was ignoring basic safety precautions for the sake of expediency.
If you have a family and live in an area where there is one main industry and who will sack employees who complain or even look as if they might be troublemakers there is a lot of pressure to conform and just accept what you can get, especially if you depend on your employer for access to basics like healthcare -you give an employer tremendous power with things like that - and your kids are in school To up sticks and go elsewhere is difficult if you work full time as going for job interviews and the like is difficult - how many days off can you get in the states? just going on spec doesn't work unless you are single and can take the risk of being destitute ta take your family is a big risk.
I have actually seen a mine believe it or not, even been down a few.
The issue here seems to be is whether the employer was taking even basic common sense safety precautions. You give the impression that you believe the question shouldn't even be asked. The job was dangerous, you didn't have to do it, tough **** you're now dead why should the mine owner have any need to worry about the safety of the miners. It's a hell of an attitude to have imo. Why do you think it reasonable for an employer to treat workers as they wish but unreasonable for workers to unite to demand better wages and conditions?
Around the world miners have always been amongst the most militant or workers. maybe they've had to be.
You know it's an almost timeless argument, how do you prevent those with power, wealth and influence abusing it and exploiting those who don't have it. At it's heart that's all politics has ever been about and the power is with the ordinary people who occasionally forget they have it in the stress of just getting by.
http://www.aflcio.org/mediacenter/prsptm/sp04072010.cfm
Show me a disaster the press and media has not blown all askew with their guesswork, half a$$ed broadcasting.
Where have I said that mines can be as safe as someone's office cubicle? I said you could make them safer. Crossing a busy road is inherently dangerous but you make it safer by looking before you actually cross or maybe using a pedestrian crossing and introducing speed limits in towns.
The laws of probability might still catch you out but you can better the odds by taking precautions. The kind of logic you are using would suggest that you would oppose speed limits and pedestrian crossings because the hazard of crossing a road occur in a never ending frequency and death is inevitable. The issue here is whether the mine owner was ignoring basic safety precautions for the sake of expediency.
If you have a family and live in an area where there is one main industry and who will sack employees who complain or even look as if they might be troublemakers there is a lot of pressure to conform and just accept what you can get, especially if you depend on your employer for access to basics like healthcare -you give an employer tremendous power with things like that - and your kids are in school To up sticks and go elsewhere is difficult if you work full time as going for job interviews and the like is difficult - how many days off can you get in the states? just going on spec doesn't work unless you are single and can take the risk of being destitute ta take your family is a big risk.
I have actually seen a mine believe it or not, even been down a few.
The issue here seems to be is whether the employer was taking even basic common sense safety precautions. You give the impression that you believe the question shouldn't even be asked. The job was dangerous, you didn't have to do it, tough **** you're now dead why should the mine owner have any need to worry about the safety of the miners. It's a hell of an attitude to have imo. Why do you think it reasonable for an employer to treat workers as they wish but unreasonable for workers to unite to demand better wages and conditions?
Around the world miners have always been amongst the most militant or workers. maybe they've had to be.
You know it's an almost timeless argument, how do you prevent those with power, wealth and influence abusing it and exploiting those who don't have it. At it's heart that's all politics has ever been about and the power is with the ordinary people who occasionally forget they have it in the stress of just getting by.
http://www.aflcio.org/mediacenter/prsptm/sp04072010.cfm