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I watched this yesterday. Much of what the film included about 9/11 and World Banking I had already known. The insight on religion was to a degree I had not been aware of and was very interesting. I recommend watching this although I'd caution people that may be prone to obsessing about conspiracy theories to tread lightly.

While I can agree with some of whats there and entertain other idea's expressed in this movie and understand why anything/everything may appear to be conspiratorial, that doesn't mean it is. And of course what I have to say doesn't mean there is no such animal as conspiracies.

I think once we begin to view these things from the perspective of multi level group selection a logical explanation begins to emerge regarding these thoughts. For anyone interested in understanding religion from an evolutionary perspective I'd recommend 2 books by the same author.

Amazon.com: Darwin's Cathedral: Evolution, Religion, and the Nature of Society (9780226901343): David Sloan Wilson: Books

Amazon.com: Evolution for Everyone: How Darwin's Theory Can Change the Way We Think About Our Lives (9780385340922): David Sloan Wilson: Books

Another movie I watched yesterday which is similar to Zeitgeist is Esoteric Agenda, which is not quite as easy to follow but is also interesting.

Ahso!;1289670 wrote: I watched this yesterday. Much of what the film included about 9/11 and World Banking I had already known. The insight on religion was to a degree I had not been aware of and was very interesting. I recommend watching this although I'd caution people that may be prone to obsessing about conspiracy theories to tread lightly.

While I can agree with some of whats there and entertain other idea's expressed in this movie and understand why anything/everything may appear to be conspiratorial, that doesn't mean it is. And of course what I have to say doesn't mean there is no such animal as conspiracies.

I think once we begin to view these things from the perspective of multi level group selection a logical explanation begins to emerge regarding these thoughts. For anyone interested in understanding religion from an evolutionary perspective I'd recommend 2 books by the same author.

Amazon.com: Darwin's Cathedral: Evolution, Religion, and the Nature of Society (9780226901343): David Sloan Wilson: Books

Amazon.com: Evolution for Everyone: How Darwin's Theory Can Change the Way We Think About Our Lives (9780385340922): David Sloan Wilson: Books

Another movie I watched yesterday which is similar to Zeitgeist is Esoteric Agenda, which is not quite as easy to follow but is also interesting.


Ahso

You need to understand the dynamics of brainwashing before you go the conspiracy route. People are tapped into the fear response and have been brainwashed to reject info when "conspiracy" is mentioned.

I tend to look at the content in that film as revealing a PLAN

I don't consider myself brainwashed tho.

Here's another video Doc that explains the mental machinary behind our present state of affairs.

Google video: "Wake Up Call_New World Order Documentary 2008.

I saw that movie a year back, or so.

Some thoughts:

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The meaning of the word, Zeitgeist is worthy of contemplation here.

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Since at least the mid-sixties, there has certainly been a lot of this "Conspiracy Theory" stuff going about.

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One of my favorite phrases is one that can be manipulated by changing a couple of words:

"Just because you are paranoid, does not mean they are out to get you." Take the word 'not' and insert it in critical location(s) and the meaning changes drastically.

(a fun mental exercise for the bored.)

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I remember reading about the "Tri-lateral commission" years ago, and all sorts of stuff. My final thought was that if all this information has leaked out, and there really is a big monster committee behind everything, then the fact that everyone now knows about it means they don't care if anyone knows anymore because there is nothing to be done to change it.

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So take some comfort in knowing that there might actually be someone driving this bus.

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Back to the film, I know that a number of the assertions made in this film are based on incorrect data, therefore the majority of the assertions made (at least to my way of thinking) are at least suspect, if not entirely invalid.

Amythest;1289696 wrote: Ahso

You need to understand the dynamics of brainwashing before you go the conspiracy route. People are tapped into the fear response and have been brainwashed to reject info when "conspiracy" is mentioned.

I tend to look at the content in that film as revealing a PLAN

I don't consider myself brainwashed tho.

Here's another video Doc that explains the mental machinary behind our present state of affairs.

Google video: "Wake Up Call_New World Order Documentary 2008.



Thanks for the new link. I'll have a look when I get a chance. I agree that "plans" in almost any idea regarding myth seem to be passed down.

If we look at the automobile as an example we see that it has been passed down under the idea of mode of transportation. Many alternative concepts of the automobile such as "The Tucker" and the "EV1" have been rejected and even sabotaged in order to maintain certain business relationships and ties which carried the original idea forward. Its been the trade offs or sacrifices necessary, at least in the minds of industry people. Sometimes its difficult for those who have had part of that industry to look forward in new directions, and therefore may appear as conspiracies or plans, which they are, but not necessarily of malicious intent.

I remember my 1969 VW Bug. What a great little car. Never had cooling system problems because it was air cooled. Consequently though, in America if the industry was to go in that direction, the trade off would have been jobs in the hose making industry, the radiator industry, the antifreeze industy and so on. The environmental consequences which needed to be addressed would only serve as the creation of yet another industry which will provide more jobs for an ever growing population.

Look at cancer. The medical science community does not want to prevent cancer, it wants to cure it. Why? Because why not, its a whole area where employment cant take place. We now know that cancer is due to deficient amounts of vitamin d in the system, but medical science is very slow to admit that fact.

All these things may look like conspiracies to some.

In Zeitgeist, its not really a conscious cover up to hide what is pointed out about the similarities of the pagan religions and those of Christian flavors. Religion itself is considered necessary for many because of the moral code attached to it. The truth is that all religion has some ugly history, but it has molded itself past those periods and is now a more humane business. Personally, I don't have any need for religion, but some do. Its my belief that we've become a culture which understands the importance of community living without the need for religion and their institutions, which are actually "clubs."

As for the banking thing, I'm as frustrated about that as the next person because monetary concepts discriminate so unfairly, but thats the theory of economics. It needs to have mechanisms of control, and no matter who is at the switch, the nature of it could make Gandhi look bad. I'd certainly like to see a more fair distribution of wealth and power that does not discriminate between people who learn how to be good at understanding the system and those who are incapable of learning it. It seems that our entire system, beginning with school exists to filter out rather than anything else, but I'm rather cynical of education in its current form.

I hear the call from people to return to smaller community ideals and thats still possible but it can't be an either/or thing. The fact is that humans have this drive to survive first as individuals and then as groups beginning with family and then larger and larger.

Since fear, including fear of one another is a problem for us and a survival threat what we've been doing as a species collectively is group selection. Think of it as bees working together for the good of the hive. What we do is grow the groups by swallowing other groups and indoctrinating those members who will become working members of the group and discarding those who won't because they threaten the viability of the group. This is where our wars and arguments come from. These are the divisions we see in politics and religion. They are all groups trying to grow bigger for survival.

Its Darwinian natural selection in group form. Its going on inside all of our bodies biologically each and every second. Its what we are and is the reason we behave as we do as individuals and groups. Its normal, and the reason we are headed for a one world order.

Will it be destructive or constructive? Who knows!

One day, who know when, this planet will have one or a series of cataclysmic events which will devour everything, and then it may all begin anew all over again at that point.

Everything I have written here is of course only my opinion

Hi Ahso,

I've read some of your posts. Many good thoughts.

"This is where our wars and arguments come from. These are the divisions we see in politics and religion. They are all groups trying to grow bigger for survival."

Survival? . . or just plain lust for money and power. It seems, in a sense, as though the conduct of the ruling elite is akin to something more like a virus. Albeit with a slightly higher level of consciousness. Their motives being both premeditated and malicious.

"The truth is that all religion has some ugly history, but it has molded itself past those periods and is now a more humane business."

Boy, I'm just not seeing the humane nature of religion/business. What with so many atrocities committed in the name of 'God(s)' still goin on around the globe. Hopefully, religion and all it's erroneous trappings, will eventually mold itself into oblivion. That we could rise above the need for such a manipulative/oppressive system based on mere myth.

'Repent' ye heathens - sinful by your very nature! lol

Hi Steev,

Thanks for the compliment. I've enjoyed reading your posts as well.

I'm not a fan of religion, but I think I understand it at least to some contemporary degree. Having come up in a Catholic family and been through more rigorous typ religious practices myself (born again movement in the late 70's through the mid 80's), I'd gotten to know some terrific people.

But I'm with you on what you've said, I just think we should endeavor to be respectful toward those whom are religious, though I don't always follow that rule myself. Its okay to let a good one fly every now and again.

Steev;1290570 wrote: Hi Ahso,

I've read some of your posts. Many good thoughts.

"This is where our wars and arguments come from. These are the divisions we see in politics and religion. They are all groups trying to grow bigger for survival."

Survival? . . or just plain lust for money and power. It seems, in a sense, as though the conduct of the ruling elite is akin to something more like a virus. Albeit with a slightly higher level of consciousness. Their motives being both premeditated and malicious.The thing about group selection is that within group behavior is often selfish (individual greed and lust for money and power) and if thats the case the group must either reform those individuals or expel them.

As for the competition that takes place with "among group' selection what should take place is fairness or a mass exodus of members to other more altruistic groups.

Unfortunately, just about all thats been available to people has been religious groups. But now we see that changing, thats the reason for the vicious attacks coming out of religious members and groups. They are drawing battle lines.

LarsMac,

You said;

"Back to the film, I know that a number of the assertions made in this film are based on incorrect data, therefore the majority of the assertions made (at least to my way of thinking) are at least suspect, if not entirely invalid."

There has been some talk off a purported 'debunking' of Zeitgeist. Turned out to be nonsense. Nothing was debunked. Can't debunk the truth.

What "incorrect data" are you referring to specifically?

Steev;1290904 wrote: LarsMac,

You said;

"Back to the film, I know that a number of the assertions made in this film are based on incorrect data, therefore the majority of the assertions made (at least to my way of thinking) are at least suspect, if not entirely invalid."

There has been some talk off a purported 'debunking' of Zeitgeist. Turned out to be nonsense. Nothing was debunked. Can't debunk the truth.

What "incorrect data" are you referring to specifically?


Well, let's skip all the esoteric BS leading up to it, and focus for a moment on the 911 stuff.

1. I know for a fact that the Pentagon was hit by an airplane. I personally know people who saw the plane.



2. The construction of the Twin towers was a unique design which could actually withstand a plane hitting it. Though the ensuing fire from the jet fuel added a new dimension to it, and when the first floors began collapsing, it was the very design technique that made it look like it was imploding. The technical details are out there for anyone to see for themselves.

3. Tower Seven was also uniquely designed, and there is a reason it collapsed like it did, that even the conspiracy folks tell you if you listen carefully. Sorry, this one, you have to spend some time on.

4. I have seen enough plane crashes to know why Flight 93 didn't leave a debris trail. The same reason that the ValueJet outside of Miami, or the 737 at Colorado Springs didn't.

Those are enough clues for anyone that cares to investigate.

That is the nature of the entire film. Lots of hype, lots of opinions, little substance.

Conspiracy Theory is becoming a religion in its own right.

I have had this same conversation a few times, and don't really want to get into it, again.

Sorry I mentioned it.

I think corruption in religion only exists within the mid to higher levels. Initiates of the lower levels (people like myself) who except Christianity as a way to learn more about Jesus Christ, and to follow His principles, are rarely if ever corrupted by such thoughts.

I will say this much, every time I go to Church, I feel the presence of the Holy Spirit there. And every time I go to Church, I feel the presence of Evil/Negativity there as well. And I feel that way no matter where I go in Life. Church is no safety net against Evil. Not at all. The only true protection against Evil is the Positive forces of the Universe that will guide you through your Life safely only if you allow them to. But the only way for that to happen is to first be still, and then second to listen (to your heart, your mind, and your emotions). If a person hasn't figured out how to do that yet, than I believe that should be one of the top things on their list. Right up there with feeding/hydrating themselves every day, and taking care of their responsibilities to themselves and others.

Woe to anybody who ever tries to interfere with someone else's connection with the Holy Spirit. Surely there can be no greater sin than that.

Mark 3:29

"But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation."

The Gospel Of Thomas:

Jesus said,"Whoever blasphemes against the Father will be forgiven, and whoever blasphemes against the son will be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit will not be forgiven, either on earth or in heaven."

Simply put, it is ok to question religion, but it is not ok to use that questioning to attempt to tear people away from their faith. To do that is the worst thing you can ever do. So be very careful when you walk that fine line.

TB, there are many of us of whom the Holy Spirit does not exist, so your warnings holds no value. Rather than taking an approach of threatening people with God's vengeance if they offend your sense of religion, perhaps simply asking for others to respect you as an individual might work better.

Then again, if you would rather not be confronted on the issue then remaining clear of these types of threads and conversations may be the way to go.

If you have never watched this movie, I'd recommended it just for the history lesson on religion. Theres nothing to fear from information. Whats that bumper sticker saying: Fear No Art?

Ahso!;1290927 wrote: there are many of us of whom the Holy Spirit does not exist, so your warnings holds no value.


Oh it holds value. It's just that some people don't understand why.

LarsMac,

"Esoteric bs"? As in 'organized religion' being bs - yes, no question there. Used to control/suppress & squeeze folks for monetary gain. Not to mention it's divisive nature. An age old scheme that has worked on the unsuspecting for far too long, nothing more.

I've examined 911 info at great length. The explanations you'd provided for what happened, have been voiced before and all things considered, they simply don't add up. Hold no water, unsupported logically. However, it seems that you have convinced yourself of what you want to believe despite evidence to the contrary. There's mountains of it there for review. i.e. pancake theory, debris trail, plane sightings etc.

Seems that in order for you to cling so tightly to those erroneous beliefs, you would have to avoid logic/reason and a great deal of evidence.

That said, it's understandable that you would "not want to get in to it".

Re - your feeling "sorry for mentioning it". No apology necessary.

As for myself, I don't choose to remain in that wonderland of not really knowing, putting up a wall, holding steadfast to beliefs despite evidence demonstrating otherwise. That's delusional type thinking. Hope folks can eventually free themselves from that and have a look at things objectively. Belief in conspiracy a religion in and of itself? Nah, many open minded, logical folk in search of truth and justice out there. Too many people living in fear, afraid to rock the boat and keeping their blinders on.

We'll may never know ALL of the 'details' but I would have to say, one thing is abundantly clear - the official explanations for 911 are unquestionably false and the intentions behind it not of good will.

Be well

Steev;1291243 wrote:

I've examined 911 info at great length. The explanations you'd provided for what happened, have been voiced before and all things considered, they simply don't add up. Hold no water, unsupported logically. However, it seems that you have convinced yourself of what you want to believe despite evidence to the contrary. There's mountains of it there for review. i.e. pancake theory, debris trail, plane sightings etc.



Seems that in order for you to cling so tightly to those erroneous beliefs, you would have to avoid logic/reason and a great deal of evidence.

That said, it's understandable that you would "not want to get in to it".





We'll may never know ALL of the 'details' but I would have to say, one thing is abundantly clear - the official explanations for 911 are unquestionably false and the intentions behind it not of good will.



Be well


So who did all the planning and execution of 9/11?

The Chimp?

BTS;1291285 wrote: So who did all the planning and execution of 9/11?

The Chimp?


No, the Butler!