ForumGarden

PARIS (AFP) – A French parliament report called Tuesday for a ban on the full Islamic veil, saying Muslim women who wear the burqa were posing an "unacceptable" challenge to French values.

After six months of hearings, a panel of 32 lawmakers recommended a ban on the face-covering veil in all schools, hospitals, public transport and government offices, the broadest move yet to restrict Muslim dress in France.

"The wearing of the full veil is a challenge to our republic. This is unacceptable," the report said. "We must condemn this excess."

Story Link: French report calls for burqa ban - Yahoo! News

What an astonishing difference there is between that report and the one on the BBC News site.A French parliamentary committee has recommended a partial ban on women wearing Islamic face veils.

The committee's near 200-page report has proposed a ban in hospitals, schools, government offices and on public transport. It also recommends that anyone showing visible signs of "radical religious practice" should be refused residence cards and citizenship.

BBC News - France MPs' report backs Muslim face veil ban



It's an odd use of the word "ban", too. In this context it means refusing service in those buildings to anyone wearing Islamic face veils.The BBC's Hugh Schofield, in Paris, says the reasoning behind the report is to make it as impractical as possible for women in face veils to go about their daily business. There is also a fear that an outright ban would not only be difficult to implement but would be distasteful and could make France a target for terrorism, our correspondent says. France has an estimated five million Muslims - the largest such population in Western Europe.

The report follows months of public debate, including President Nicolas Sarkozy's intervention, saying all-encompassing veils were "not welcome in France". However, he did not explicitly call for a ban, saying "no-one should feel stigmatised" by any eventual law.

For every woman in France wearing it at the moment - "The interior ministry says just 1,900 women in France wear the full veils" - I'd quite like to see another hundred take to wearing it to hospitals, schools, government offices and on public transport as a mark of solidarity with their sisters and to register their protest. Maybe it might even start a new fashion for them like we Brits wear hoodies.

I'm ambivalent:

Pro - Banning that garb not only makes it harder for female suicide bombers, it asserts women's rights in a free-world country. It's the old, come on over, but don't try to make us something we're not argument. It sends an anti-terror message.

Con - It's just clothing. It has nothing to do with how a person really feels. Worse yet, it'll alienate some moderate muslims and make everything worse. At best it's intolerant, at worst it's state-sponsored discrimination.

I honestly thought France had gotten rid of all their McDonalds..........silly me.

How many terrorists have escaped capture by travelling in a burqa (I'm talking about males). I'm afraid the constant threat and fear of terrorism has caused this suspicion, and consequent changes in the law with regard to dress. I agree with not allowing burqas to be worn, I also do not like to see people wearing 'hoodies' except in bad weather. Why don't they want their faces visible? I appreciate that with the burqa, it is the culture, but if the law says they are not permitted in certain countries, then if one wants to stay in that country they must abide by the law.

Ian;1285569 wrote: Where the heck did you get my picture from?

G#Gill;1285589 wrote: How many terrorists have escaped capture by travelling in a burqa (I'm talking about males). I'm afraid the constant threat and fear of terrorism has caused this suspicion, and consequent changes in the law with regard to dress. I agree with not allowing burqas to be worn, I also do not like to see people wearing 'hoodies' except in bad weather. Why don't they want their faces visible? I appreciate that with the burqa, it is the culture, but if the law says they are not permitted in certain countries, then if one wants to stay in that country they must abide by the law.
Well said.

The problem I have with this is one of equality In rules and regs. It is fine to ask a youth in a 'Hoodie' to remove his hood when entering a supermarket and also ask the same of any-one wearing a Motorbike Crash helmet. Let's have the same rules and laws for all. If a 'Hoodie' can be refused to be served in a shop, then, equally, we should not let It be acceptable for any-one to cover their face enitrely on religious or cultural grounds.

There are reasons for wearing motorbike helmets, hoodies, burqas and if it comes to that balaclavas too. I remember handing a balaclava each to several of my children and putting one on myself, much to their bemusement and horror. There are times when it's just the right thing to do, as they discovered soon after.

Some women feel safer outdoors or in mixed non-domestic company in a burqa. Forcing them to stay at home in a purely domestic setting is just ill-mannered. Rejecting their cultural heritage shows a lack of respect and lacks honour.

To quote one Muslim woman this week,I fail to understand why has he come up against the burqa while the dress that Christian nuns wear is almost the same. I don’t wear burqa, but my sister does though no one has asked her to do so. It’s our personal choice”.

Burqa is Muslim woman’s choice: Indian Muslims react to Sarkozy

spot;1285630 wrote:

To quote one Muslim woman this week,I fail to understand why has he come up against the burqa while the dress that Christian nuns wear is almost the same.




That Muslim woman misses the point. It's about covering the face totally so noone can recognise you. No nuns did that. Understandably banks and other businesses are concerned - as they no doubt would be if Spot and his offspring appeared on their premises all balaclava'd up. If, on the other hand, Spot and his offspring were skiing in blizzard conditions, their face covering would probably not be considered potentially dangerous.

Oh, and a non inconsiderable number of the young French women who favour the burqa are converts - which means that this is not part of their cultural heritage at all. If they and the others only feel safe outdoor when rugged up from head to toe and blinkered as well, I think that there is something wrong either with their mental state, their conditioning or the law enforcement people in the areas in which these women live.

AussiePam;1285631 wrote: That Muslim woman misses the point. It's about covering the face totally so noone can recognise you.


Face Recognition Vendor Test 2006 - Introduction discusses the real agenda behind this Western pressure to "conform". It's why biometric data exists on passport applications and driving licences.

And..... ?????

And what?

AussiePam;1285631 wrote: Oh, and a non inconsiderable number of the young French women who favour the burqa are converts


And where do you get that from? What makes you think it's true? It's not the case around Tower Hamlets, for example, and there's a load of burqas being worn on the streets there.

spot;1285635 wrote: And what?



And where do you get that from? What makes you think it's true? It's not the case around Tower Hamlets, for example, and there's a load of burqas being worn on the streets there.


Why are you bringing personal observations about some place called Tower Hamlets into this thread?

spot;1285635 wrote: Some women feel safer outdoors or in mixed non-domestic company in a burqa. Forcing them to stay at home in a purely domestic setting is just ill-mannered. Rejecting their cultural heritage shows a lack of respect and lacks honour.


Who do you think is forcing them to stay home? And where do you suggest manners come into it?

Do you think businesses, public transport etc should toss away their closed circuit tv security systems which they seem to feel enhance general public safety for the sake of a few who demand special exemption?

Who are you saying is lacking honour here? And what do you mean by honour?

If you're not prepared to hold a conversation, Pam, you can talk to yourself. I asked a reasonable question about one of your points and you fire a scattergun to deflect from it. That's not how conversation works.

spot;1285643 wrote: If you're not prepared to hold a conversation, Pam, you can talk to yourself. I asked a reasonable question about one of your points and you fire a scattergun to deflect from it. That's not how conversation works.


That's quite good coming from you, Spot.

I'm not trying to have a conversation on this with you. But what I referred to has been quoted in a lot of newspapers, including The Guardian. I've tried to track down a relatively reliable source. Here's a bit from Le Figaro.

Le Figaro - France : Femmes voilées : beaucoup de Françaises et de converties



Qui sont les femmes qui portent la burqa en France ?

Cécilia Gabizon

19/06/2009 |



Elles seraient quelques milliers en France à porter un voile intégral, avec ou sans tissu grillagé au niveau des yeux.

Le gouvernement n'exclut pas de légiférer sur le port de ce voile, dont les adeptes en France sont souvent jeunes et proches du mouvement salafiste qui prône un islam rigoriste.

Si certaines femmes souffrent de ce voile qui les ensevelit de la tête au pied, «la majorité a volontairement adopté cette tenue», tranche Bernard Godard, spécialiste de l'islam (1). «Beaucoup ont la nationalité française. Et l'on compte pas mal de converties dans leurs rangs», ajoute cet ancien du Bureau des cultes au ministère de l'Intérieur. «Elles deviennent salafistes comme on entre dans une secte», poursuit-il.

.....

(1) Auteur de Musulmans de France, éditions Robert Laffont, 2007



----------------------

That is what I love about the French, they just do what they want and don’t care about the political correctness of it. They respect and protect their own culture.

Viva la France

mikeinie;1285649 wrote: That is what I love about the French, they just do what they want and don’t care about the political correctness of it. They respect and protect their own culture.

Viva la France
I wish our Ministers had the balls of the French.

I stick with my example. I don't find It acceptable for a teenager to be asked to remove his hood before he can be served In a shop yet woman ( Or men) can walk around totally covered. That Is the Bristish Government trying as usual to appease every ethnic minority while penalising their own. I am In no doubt that If I wandered into my local Tesco. I would be asked to remove a balaclava should I be wearing one. Yet go to any large Tesco's In Bristol and you will see woman with their faces completely covered. One rule for them, one rule for us.

oscar;1285653 wrote: I wish our Ministers had the balls of the French.


Ah, the glory days before the Entente Cordiale when as often as not Westminster kept them dangling in trophy cabinets. Happy times.

spot;1285661 wrote: Ah, the glory days before the Entente Cordiale when as often as not Westminster kept them dangling in trophy cabinets. Happy times.


Yes, If you wish to put It that way. The glory days before our country became swamped with ridiculous human rights that do nothing but appease the bleedin heart loony Left.

When visiting an Islamic country it is wise to respect their sensitivities concerning what to wear, such as length of dress, covering arms and such. You could never wear a bikini on a Saudi beach for instance.

I would think most motor bike riders are not criminally inclined, whenever they enter a bank, so they sensibly remove their helmet, the same could be said of balaclava and hoody wearers.

Why should the wearers of burkhas think they are the exception in the UK or anywhere else outside an Islamic country ?

G#Gill;1285589 wrote: How many terrorists have escaped capture by travelling in a burqa (I'm talking about males). I'm afraid the constant threat and fear of terrorism has caused this suspicion, and consequent changes in the law with regard to dress. I agree with not allowing burqas to be worn, I also do not like to see people wearing 'hoodies' except in bad weather. Why don't they want their faces visible?


I agree, Gill. We have to face the fact that we live in an age where concealing your identity is not only scary, it's dangerous.:-3

Bruv;1285678 wrote:

Why should the wearers of burkhas think they are the exception in the UK or anywhere else outside an Islamic country ?


Possibly because they believe they are the bloody exception to EVERY rule? (See: Muslim pressure against cartoonists.):mad:

AussiePam;1285640 wrote: Why are you bringing personal observations about some place called Tower Hamlets into this thread?







Who do you think is forcing them to stay home? And where do you suggest manners come into it?



Do you think businesses, public transport etc should toss away their closed circuit tv security systems which they seem to feel enhance general public safety for the sake of a few who demand special exemption?



Who are you saying is lacking honour here? And what do you mean by honour?


Bless you Pam...You certainly have a lot more patience that I do:wah: