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I don't know if any-one remembers but some months ago I posted that my lovely friends had been attacked and racially abused by two 16 yr olds. Three members of their staff were physically assaulted and the windows of the shop kicked in.

One has already been dealt with by the courts and on friday, we will be in the public Gallery to see the other sentenced at last.

Well done to the two young WPC's who persued this to the bitter end and got them to court. :driving::driving:

Yay! Let's hope the punishment fits the crime and they don't get off too lightly. :-5

Rapunzel;1258632 wrote: Yay! Let's hope the punishment fits the crime and they don't get off too lightly. :-5


What punishment are you to be expecting exactly?(A question for anyone in the UK that is familiar with this case)

Rapunzel;1258632 wrote: Yay! Let's hope the punishment fits the crime and they don't get off too lightly. :-5
The other one did get off quite lightly but this one Friday is the nasty one. Also, It will come out in court Friday that some weeks after the attack, they came back for some more one night. That night I was there and had to get police out to them again. that is not going to look good to the court.

KSnyder;1258635 wrote: What punishment are you to be expecting exactly?(A question for anyone in the UK that is familiar with this case) If they are under 17 years old here Kev, they are classed as 'Children' in the eyes of the law and that reflects their sentencing. I am expecting no more than 9 months probation and a referal to 'the Restorative Justice' programme.

oscar;1258639 wrote: If they are under 17 years old here Kev, they are classed as 'Children' in the eyes of the law and that reflects their sentencing. I am expecting no more than 9 months probation and a referal to 'the Restorative Justice' programme.


pity!

they deserve more.:-5:-5

Odie;1258648 wrote: pity!

they deserve more.:-5:-5


I'd suspect their next sentencing upon having repeated their crime would be much harsher, in the logarithmic sense?

KSnyder;1258657 wrote: I'd suspect their next sentencing upon having repeated their crime would be much harsher, in the logarithmic sense? They are pleading that they were so drunk, they can't remember doing or saying anything. Thank God for CCTV Camera's eh?

KSnyder;1258657 wrote: I'd suspect their next sentencing upon having repeated their crime would be much harsher, in the logarithmic sense?


it all depends if this is their first offense.

to me Kev, if you do the crime...........

shouldn't matter the age.

oscar;1258660 wrote: They are pleading that they were so drunk, they can't remember doing or saying anything. Thank God for CCTV Camera's eh?


Ah yes!!!!!!

The boyish insanity plea!

"I was so drunk"

KSnyder;1258668 wrote: Ah yes!!!!!!

The boyish insanity plea!

"I was so drunk"


Along with a lawyer claiming that because they were 15 yrs old at the time, yelling ' eff off you effin Paki'... they couldn't possibly know what they were saying. yeah right !!!!

oscar;1258674 wrote: Along with a lawyer claiming that because they were 15 yrs old at the time, yelling ' eff off you effin Paki'... they couldn't possibly know what they were saying. yeah right !!!!


I remember being 15 quite well! I remember thinking to meself in how idiotic and ignorant alot of 30 year olds were!

You know the horrendous thing about that is?

Alot of them are still idiotic and ignorant!

KSnyder;1258676 wrote: I remember being 15 quite well! I remember thinking to meself in how idiotic and ignorant alot of 30 year olds were!

You know the horrendous thing about that is?

Alot of them are still idiotic and ignorant!
I was horrible at 15 yrs old If I were honest. Extremely hormonal and my father and I went several rounds with each other but I always had respect for my elders, the police, Authority etc etc. My husband was actually there when these two were arrested and it took 3 officers to get the cuffs on one of them. They were wrestling on the ground, kicking and screaming, telling the Officers to eff off. At least the Officers saw them for what they were.... nasty little violent rascists and didn't bleat 'They're children' like the odd Officer does and makes excuses for them.

oscar;1258660 wrote: They are pleading that they were so drunk, they can't remember doing or saying anything. Thank God for CCTV Camera's eh?


drinking is not an excuse.:-5:-5

well, good for you, oscar, for calling the police.

But I do wonder if the recent heightening of the BNP's public profile is resulting in an increase in racial attacks. It will be interesting to see the crime figures for this year.

Clodhopper;1258763 wrote: well, good for you, oscar, for calling the police.

But I do wonder if the recent heightening of the BNP's public profile is resulting in an increase in racial attacks. It will be interesting to see the crime figures for this year.
They were 15 years old at the time and I very much doubt If they even knew who the BNP were.

It is way past time to bring back the 'birch' for over 16's and the 'cane' for under 16's. These scum only understand physical punishment - something that will cause physical pain. Unfortunately the UK is governed by Europe, and so will never be able to be masters of their own justice system again, until the UK comes out of Europe. My parents always believed in 'cause and effect' - if you did something wrong, and depending on the severity of that wrong, you get hurt! Simple really. Respect for the law flew out of the window when the precious government decided to ban 'caning' in schools. Look what has happened with no ultimate deterrent!

In the animal world, a mother will cuff her youngster if it is 'naughty', and they learn that if they did a certain thing, it would hurt! Oh, I forgot about all the 'do-gooders' and the anti-violence for children brigade. Oh well, just forget I ever typed anything !

This country has sunk into the quagmire anyway...................... I can't be arsed to be bothered about it any more.

G#Gill;1258780 wrote: It is way past time to bring back the 'birch' for over 16's and the 'cane' for under 16's. These scum only understand physical punishment - something that will cause physical pain. Unfortunately the UK is governed by Europe, and so will never be able to be masters of their own justice system again, until the UK comes out of Europe. My parents always believed in 'cause and effect' - if you did something wrong, and depending on the severity of that wrong, you get hurt! Simple really. Respect for the law flew out of the window when the precious government decided to ban 'caning' in schools. Look what has happened with no ultimate deterrent!

In the animal world, a mother will cuff her youngster if it is 'naughty', and they learn that if they did a certain thing, it would hurt! Oh, I forgot about all the 'do-gooders' and the anti-violence for children brigade. Oh well, just forget I ever typed anything !

This country has sunk into the quagmire anyway...................... I can't be arsed to be bothered about it any more. I have very long chats about the same Gill with local police Officers. It's very Interesting to hear what they would 'Like to do' with these teenagers off the record. Due to the nature of the business of being in the take-away late at night, I have seen it all with them and there Is absolutely no respect for the Police either. They are sick to death of this kind of behaviour and waste of man-power getting called out to them. I had an e mail from the police yesterday that I'm going to post up here that shows the massive Operation that was in place just to combat Halloween night.

I do blame the parents you know. I was certainly no angel as a teenager but we respected the Police and authorites, even our teachers. Now the Government has said 'Enough' and wants the Police to come down hard on these kids. Too little too late.... It's due to them that they are some of the monsters that they are. The police can not win some-times either. The local Councillor actually gets complaints from parents that the police are 'picking' on their kid.

In many ways I blame the parents. The trouble is, the parents in question were probably badly brought up themselves and are not capable of raising kids properly.

Should people have to "qualify" in some way to have children?

oscar;1258769 wrote: They were 15 years old at the time and I very much doubt If they even knew who the BNP were.


Quite possibly they don't, but I was speaking more generally. I don't know if the greater public awareness of the BNP will cause an increase in racial attacks or not, but it will be interesting to see.

Clodhopper;1258809 wrote: Quite possibly they don't, but I was speaking more generally. I don't know if the greater public awareness of the BNP will cause an increase in racial attacks or not, but it will be interesting to see.
If kids are reading tabloids or watching tv, it is not the BNP to blame however much you want to blame them. It is the EDL out on the streets with the UAF assaulting police Officers, not the BNP and I very much doubt, that anyone will see a BNP member in a violent situation now. These kids have to learn this racism from some-where and It doesn't come from the schools. It has to be the parents.

Oh, those poor, oppressed racist fascists.

Do I feel sympathy?

Is the Pope Protestant?

Without the BNP, the UAF (if it existed at all) would be a tiny group no-one had heard of. Your argument is like blaming the Allies for all the dead of WW2, not Hitler.

Don't know much about the EDL. Sound thoroughly dodgy to me though.

Agree that SOME of the racism must come from the parents. Especially if they are BNP supporters. But you'd have to be pretty unobservant not to have noticed the BNP in the last few months.

G#Gill;1258780 wrote: It is way past time to bring back the 'birch' for over 16's and the 'cane' for under 16's. These scum only understand physical punishment - something that will cause physical pain. Unfortunately the UK is governed by Europe, and so will never be able to be masters of their own justice system again, until the UK comes out of Europe. My parents always believed in 'cause and effect' - if you did something wrong, and depending on the severity of that wrong, you get hurt! Simple really. Respect for the law flew out of the window when the precious government decided to ban 'caning' in schools. Look what has happened with no ultimate deterrent!

In the animal world, a mother will cuff her youngster if it is 'naughty', and they learn that if they did a certain thing, it would hurt! Oh, I forgot about all the 'do-gooders' and the anti-violence for children brigade. Oh well, just forget I ever typed anything !

This country has sunk into the quagmire anyway...................... I can't be arsed to be bothered about it any more.


Expulsion used to be the ultimate deterrent you do have a point there that schools seem to tolerate abusive pupils-but on the other hand councils prevent pupils being evicted and shutting down the special classes they used to have for problem pupils and expect teachers to put up with behaviour they wouldn't in their private life.

But what a pity for your theory that birching was banned in 1948-long before we became members of the EEC, same with borstals-they ended because they patently weren't working. It was the nasty right wing tories under thatcher that banned corporal punishment in schools not the loony left or the PC crowd . I remember the tawse and the sadistic bastards that liked to use it at every opportunity. Caning always seemed very perverted to me-bend over I'm going to beat you.

Quite rightly now we think there is something wrong with someone that wants to beat children. In the sixties and seventies you had mods and rockers,punks and rockers rioting in the streets-the very same people who now shake their heads at the behaviour of young people nowadays. Knife carrying gangs and street warfare were the norm even more than they are now. Violence at football matches was the norm and everyone thought it was part of the fun. Bullying in school and in the workplace was part of life and you just had to accept it until it was your turn to be the bully. What a wonderfully strange rosie view you have of the past-an idyllic land where everyone was nice to each other and after a damn good thrashing the hooligan was an immediately reformed character. What utter bollocks.

Glad to see you campaigning for the right to beat the **** out of your children. When they grown up and are big enough to hit you back or beat the **** out of their own kids I hope you feel proud of a job well done.

gmc;1258932 wrote: Expulsion used to be the ultimate deterrent you do have a point there that schools seem to tolerate abusive pupils-but on the other hand councils prevent pupils being evicted and shutting down the special classes they used to have for problem pupils and expect teachers to put up with behaviour they wouldn't in their private life.

But what a pity for your theory that birching was banned in 1948-long before we became members of the EEC, same with borstals-they ended because they patently weren't working. It was the nasty right wing tories under thatcher that banned corporal punishment in schools not the loony left or the PC crowd . I remember the tawse and the sadistic bastards that liked to use it at every opportunity. Caning always seemed very perverted to me-bend over I'm going to beat you.

Quite rightly now we think there is something wrong with someone that wants to beat children. In the sixties and seventies you had mods and rockers,punks and rockers rioting in the streets-the very same people who now shake their heads at the behaviour of young people nowadays. Knife carrying gangs and street warfare were the norm even more than they are now. Violence at football matches was the norm and everyone thought it was part of the fun. Bullying in school and in the workplace was part of life and you just had to accept it until it was your turn to be the bully. What a wonderfully strange rosie view you have of the past-an idyllic land where everyone was nice to each other and after a damn good thrashing the hooligan was an immediately reformed character. What utter bollocks.

Glad to see you campaigning for the right to beat the **** out of your children. When they grown up and are big enough to hit you back or beat the **** out of their own kids I hope you feel proud of a job well done.


Great post :yh_clap:yh_clap:yh_clap

Every century is marked by a general belief that we are going to the dogs. Just yesterday someone mentioned that things aren't really all that bad nowadays and in fact we are safer now than we have ever been throughout history. It made me stop and think, the history of our land is built on violence and oppression. Our daily lives right now are full of scare mongering and it's become common practice to label all children of certain ages as useless yobs. I'm sick of it, all the children I know are actually nice kids. I can't help but think that if you walk around believing that everyone is bad then that's what you are going to get, I'd rather keep giving people the benefit of the doubt and assume they are generally nice people, that includes all teenagers I come across too!

gmc;1258932 wrote: Expulsion used to be the ultimate deterrent you do have a point there that schools seem to tolerate abusive pupils-but on the other hand councils prevent pupils being evicted and shutting down the special classes they used to have for problem pupils and expect teachers to put up with behaviour they wouldn't in their private life.

But what a pity for your theory that birching was banned in 1948-long before we became members of the EEC, same with borstals-they ended because they patently weren't working. It was the nasty right wing tories under thatcher that banned corporal punishment in schools not the loony left or the PC crowd . I remember the tawse and the sadistic bastards that liked to use it at every opportunity. Caning always seemed very perverted to me-bend over I'm going to beat you.

Quite rightly now we think there is something wrong with someone that wants to beat children. In the sixties and seventies you had mods and rockers,punks and rockers rioting in the streets-the very same people who now shake their heads at the behaviour of young people nowadays. Knife carrying gangs and street warfare were the norm even more than they are now. Violence at football matches was the norm and everyone thought it was part of the fun. Bullying in school and in the workplace was part of life and you just had to accept it until it was your turn to be the bully. What a wonderfully strange rosie view you have of the past-an idyllic land where everyone was nice to each other and after a damn good thrashing the hooligan was an immediately reformed character. What utter bollocks.

Glad to see you campaigning for the right to beat the **** out of your children. When they grown up and are big enough to hit you back or beat the **** out of their own kids I hope you feel proud of a job well done.


Hear hear. I know you are suffering atm, GGill. But gmc (and Betty) are right.

Betty Boop;1258947 wrote: I can't help but think that if you walk around believing that everyone is bad then that's what you are going to get, I'd rather keep giving people the benefit of the doubt and assume they are generally nice people, that includes all teenagers I come across too!
You are right in that you can not judge all teenagers the same however I don't believe you have ever been in the situations that I have.

For one, ( I can not go into details), our local police are fighting a 50 strong gang at the moment that are coming into our area from other area's purely to assault and mug. it has been a nightmare for them.

For two, on Halloween night, our little Tesco Expess had to shut early which inconvienences everyone in the community. The police got there very quickly and I actually defended them by telling the police they had done nothing wrong. One officer quite rightly said 'To have a gang of approx 30 youths in a doorway of a shop Intimidating residents is totally unacceptable and wrong. I could not disagree with him. I happened to know some of the teenagers and knew they would not harm anyone but look at It from the point of view from an old lady who wanted to come out to get a pint of milk and wouldn't dare due to that gang? That's when It is wrong, when they stop everyday people going about their lives.

Unless you live in some tiny corner of the British Isles that has not heard of Anti-Social behaviour, you have no Idea.

The only reason, I baby sit that take-away weekends for our friends is due to the trouble and It is not the drunks coming out of pubs at midnight.... It is all night long and it is always kids and teenagers who have nothing better to do and no-where to go. Try going into a town at 11 oclock at night and see how many drunk and doped up teenagers there are out on the streets. The parents have no Idea of who they are with, where they are or what they are doing. You can not judge an area going by what you see at midday in a shopping centre.

Are you writing from the big house?

Whats the food like?

Have you been molested by prison guards?

Whats your convict #?

Orange jump suits or striped?

gmc;1258932 wrote:

. In the sixties and seventies you had mods and rockers,punks and rockers rioting in the streets-the very same people who now shake their heads at the behaviour of young people nowadays. Knife carrying gangs and street warfare were the norm even more than they are now. Violence at football matches was the norm and everyone thought it was part of the fun. Bullying in school and in the workplace was part of life and you just had to accept it until it was your turn to be the bully. .
Yes, It was like that and I can speak from experience. My first husband was shot with a sawn off shotgun by a rival skinhead gang in the 70's.

The big difference back then, was they only did It to their own and rival gangs. if they were in a rival gang, then they were just as bad. The big difference today is that youths single out anyone totally at random in the street. I have just been reading about a bride beaten up minutes after her wedding by male yobs because she was wearing a goth dress. That's the big difference. Even football violence was against rival violent supporters.

What I see day to day is a total lack of respect for anyone in the street let alone the authorites. Even my First husbands skinhead gang, who were capable of sick violence against each other, would stop to open the door fopr a lady or give up their seat on a bus. They did not spit in the street, swear at residents and hang round in doorways with no direction in life. They still had manners, and ethics. Infact, if they saw a scroat abusing an old lady, chances are, they would kick the shyte out of them. In those days, you incurred the violence If you were part of those gangs. You did not randomely pick on anyone because they happened to pass in the street dressed different to you.

posted by oscar

The only reason, I baby sit that take-away weekends for our friends is due to the trouble and It is not the drunks coming out of pubs at midnight.... It is all night long and it is always kids and teenagers who have nothing better to do and no-where to go. Try going into a town at 11 oclock at night and see how many drunk and doped up teenagers there are out on the streets.


That kind if says it all. Where I live for kids between 12-18 there really is nothing for them to do except hang around. they can't play football cos the school grounds are usually locked or someone calls the police if they get together in a park. Sports clubs etc take money to join which is all very well if your family has that kind of disposable income. There's a skate park but some adults seem to object to kids wasting their time playing. The bmx track has just been turned in to offices so they hang around in gangs and some start causing trouble. Their parents might not actually know what they are doing-it's easy for a kid to get sucked in to things just to be part of a group.

posted by oscar

Yes, It was like that and I can speak from experience. My first husband was shot with a sawn off shotgun by a rival skinhead gang in the 70's.

The big difference back then, was they only did It to their own and rival gangs. if they were in a rival gang, then they were just as bad. The big difference today is that youths single out anyone totally at random in the street. I have just been reading about a bride beaten up minutes after her wedding by male yobs because she was wearing a goth dress. That's the big difference. Even football violence was against rival violent supporters.


Oh here we go-thugs were decent in the old days wouldn't harm a fly unless they asked for it. What were you doing going out with a thug?

Cynicism is only a bad thing when one gives in to their own biased nature. It's what defines stubbornness. Cynicism is fantastically gratifying by virtue of realism. When one is stubborn through cynicism they define themselves as one that wishes to see bad in others. Huge difference.

Besides,..when my cynical nature is proven discerned without question nor bias I'm forever reluctant to ever call one untrustworthy.

gmc;1259209 wrote: posted by oscar



That kind if says it all. Where I live for kids between 12-18 there really is nothing for them to do except hang around. they can't play football cos the school grounds are usually locked or someone calls the police if they get together in a park. Sports clubs etc take money to join which is all very well if your family has that kind of disposable income. There's a skate park but some adults seem to object to kids wasting their time playing. The bmx track has just been turned in to offices so they hang around in gangs and some start causing trouble. Their parents might not actually know what they are doing-it's easy for a kid to get sucked in to things just to be part of a group.

posted by oscar



Oh here we go-thugs were decent in the old days wouldn't harm a fly unless they asked for it. What were you doing going out with a thug?


The kids round here bleat that there is nothing to do and no-where to go but It is infact untrue. The Tory council spent 2 and a half million on a skate board park. Go up there any morning and it's a shyte hole of drug wraps, cigg butts, alcohol empties, used condoms etc. The decent kids can't get near it for the yobs who Intimidate them. It was nothing but a waste of money.

There is a bus that comes at night with pc's, computer games etc on board for them. To qualitfy to use the bus, they must give 5 hours a week in their community. They want the privilage of the bus but will not do the 5 hours asked of them.

A local Tory Councillor gave hours of him own time and money setting up a youth centre with equipment for them but no-one over 12 years old turns up.

There are karate, football, rugby etc etc clubs open at night and most are just not Interested. It's far more fun to hang around a late night supermarket and take-away goading the public.

I married the thug at 16 yrs old. Yeah yeah yeah... I had It all from my family what ever you are going to say. He wasn't a thug when I married him but he did get worse and became extremely violent and that's why I left and never went back.

oscar;1258630 wrote: I don't know if any-one remembers but some months ago I posted that my lovely friends had been attacked and racially abused by two 16 yr olds. Three members of their staff were physically assaulted and the windows of the shop kicked in.

One has already been dealt with by the courts and on friday, we will be in the public Gallery to see the other sentenced at last.



Well done to the two young WPC's who persued this to the bitter end and got them to court. :driving::driving:




Good for you Julie. It's good to support your mates:-6 Hope all goes well on Friday.

Kathy Ellen;1259256 wrote: Good for you Julie. It's good to support your mates:-6 Hope all goes well on Friday. Thanks Kathy... we are all going together for some food after the case to celebrate. :driving::driving:

On a serious note... my friend will not go to the court unless I'm glued to her side. That is how much those yobs frightened her that night. When all the excuses have finished being made, people need to realise the effect they have on decent peoples lives.

Tomorrow is the day.

I have just nipped out to re-assure my friend as I heard that she had taken the night off work due to worry. She is not frightened of the court, the Officials, the Magistrates etc. Her fear is facing their attacker across the courtroom.

Anyone who makes excuses about these kids and bleat 'But they are only children' need to go and visit my friend who is scared out of her wits. Have a look at the effect these 'Children' haver had on her life.

I hope the sentence is severe in this case. :-5

good luck tomorrow Julie!:-4

Odie;1259851 wrote: good luck tomorrow Julie!:-4Thanks... I hope to post a good outcome when I get home :guitarist

oscar;1259854 wrote: Thanks... I hope to post a good outcome when I get home :guitarist


I know you will.

Best wishes for tomorrow Oscar:-6



Looking forward to good news;)

Kathy Ellen;1259902 wrote: Best wishes for tomorrow Oscar:-6



Looking forward to good news;)
Just got home now.

GUILTY

Just waiting to hear the sentence from the court now. We left them to It. We got what we wanted.

:yh_party:yh_party:yh_party:yh_party

oscar;1259989 wrote: Just got home now.

GUILTY

Just waiting to hear the sentence from the court now. We left them to It. We got what we wanted.

:yh_party:yh_party:yh_party:yh_party


I knew they would find them guilty as they were in the wrong, yes, the sentence was my concern, perhaps community service?:rolleyes:

Good going Julie!:-6

Odie;1260006 wrote: I knew they would find them guilty as they were in the wrong, yes, the sentence was my concern, perhaps community service?:rolleyes:

Good going Julie!:-6
We will know by the end of the day. Guess what? Same as in my case... not a parent in sight. :-5

oscar;1260016 wrote: We will know by the end of the day. Guess what? Same as in my case... not a parent in sight. :-5


OMG!:-5:-5



why is it some parents don't care nowadays?:mad:

Odie;1260017 wrote: OMG!:-5:-5



why is it some parents don't care nowadays?:mad:
I was wondering If they even knew but then at that age, they have to be Interviewed by police with a parent present. In a strange way, I felt a pang of sympathy for the kid. We were there mob handed and they were alone except for their brief. Can't be right. :-5

oscar;1260024 wrote: I was wondering If they even knew but then at that age, they have to be Interviewed by police with a parent present. In a strange way, I felt a pang of sympathy for the kid. We were there mob handed and they were alone except for their brief. Can't be right. :-5


The parents would have known.

its just sad.

Odie;1260027 wrote: The parents would have known.

its just sad. That's probably the cause of them being such shytes in the first place. :-5

We did all look posh this morning in our suits. :wah:

oscar;1260044 wrote: That's probably the cause of them being such shytes in the first place. :-5



We did all look posh this morning in our suits. :wah:
Bet you did! Well done!

As for parents, we just had a big discussion on this tuesday in class. Something needs to be done about the deprivation that seems to breed this type.

oscar;1260044 wrote: That's probably the cause of them being such shytes in the first place. :-5

We did all look posh this morning in our suits. :wah:


A summons would have come in the mail or been served.

darn right parents would have known, I find some just won't bother taking time off work.:-5:-5

9 Months Probation

A referal to The restorative Justice Programme

£50 Fine

£150 Compensation to our friend.



Pathetic

Truly awful.....These yobs are probably laughing their heads off and will continue to be nasty:mad:

oscar;1260318 wrote: 9 Months Probation

A referal to The restorative Justice Programme

£50 Fine

£150 Compensation to our friend.



Pathetic


that's no compensation for your friend!:mad:

9 months programme?:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:mad: