Beggars? or scammers?

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:04 pm

A SIMPLE message scrawled on scrounged cardboard used to be enough. Basic signs such as "hungry, please help" or "homeless - need $$$" would help eke out a living.

But in these tough financial times scroungers are ditching generic pleas and getting creative to maintain their cash flow.

Faced with stiff competition - including an army of charity muggers, talentless buskers and ambush windscreen washers - society's have-nots are polishing their sales pitches.

Beggars, it seems, can be choosers - at least when it comes to selecting a unique selling point.

Some rely on humour to keep their coin collections topped up. A friend in Adelaide saw a ragamuffin holding up a sign saying: "Won't lie, I want $ for beer."

Some tug the heartstrings. On a bridge over the Yarra River a shivering teen sometimes holds a placard penned: "I'm 15 and pregnant and have no family for support."

Others portray a work ethic: "Need money for petrol to get to job interview."

An entrepreneurial bloke who knows that specifics make a story resonate, stopped my friend the other day to ask for exactly $4.

"I only have $1 in coins," she apologised, handing it all over.

Spotting a fiver in her purse, he implored: "I really need $4. Can I have that note and give you change?"

You guessed it. He handed back as change the very same dollar she'd just donated.

Just as beggars are getting creative, governments are brainstorming solutions to move them along.

The Alice Springs Town Council is looking at introducing $130 fines for beggars.

In the US, a Cincinnati council has proposed panhandlers pay a registration fee and a 2 per cent tax on their earnings.

The councillor who suggested this reportedly also wants panhandlers to carry a standard sign issued by the city that would say how much it spends on agencies that help homeless people.

The increasingly entrepreneurial approach of some beggars adds complexity to the "should I give or not" debate.

Every time I see a beggar an internal wrangle erupts: Will they spend the money I give on drugs and alcohol? Would it be better if I gave the money to a proper charity?

For a while I resolved to hand over only healthy snacks, but gave that experiment up after a peach and a muesli bar were thrown back without thanks.

Another time I pressed money into the hand of an obvious addict with a comment I instantly regretted: "Please, don't use this to shoot up."

As soon as I uttered it I knew it was entirely inappropriate to attach strings to what is supposed to be a kind gesture.

Since then I've kept a few coins in my pocket ready to hand over, without judgment and with a genuine spirit of giving.

It's not always easy, especially when the recipient appears to be a junkie or is already holding a bottle in a paper bag.

But anyone desperate enough to be throwing themselves at strangers on the street, with elaborate stories to elicit donations, has clearly fallen through society's safety nets.

Boiled down for a cardboard square, my marker-pen missive would simply read: "Be kind."

The only one of these that concerns me is the 15 year old girl...........anyone who knows a teenage girl would know she would kill herself before getting to this level which makes me think she's made to stand there.

along-for-the-ride · Post by **along-for-the-ride** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:50 pm

Boiled down for a cardboard square, my marker-pen missive would simply read: "Be kind."

Does "kindness" give us the right to be judge and jury over an individual?

Attached files

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:56 pm

along-for-the-ride;1221987 wrote: Boiled down for a cardboard square, my marker-pen missive would simply read: "Be kind."

Does "kindness" give us the right to be judge and jury over an individual?
Huh?

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:03 pm

I don't know. If someone needs something to get them through the day .......be it drugs or alcohol or money .........then give it. I try not to judge. If I was homeless I'd probably turn to drugs just to stop me from jumping off a bridge.

I like the tax thingy though for the scammers.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:06 pm

Many beggars or Big Issue sellers in this country have to do it for a reason. They may be drug dependent or alcoholic. It shows how little our government is aware of them and devoid of helping them at times. We do not know their circumstances. Many are truely in need and should not be judged. They certainly should not be all classified as Scroungers, attacked and in extreme cases, even killed for their failure to adjust to society.

along-for-the-ride · Post by **along-for-the-ride** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:29 pm

Accountable;1221991 wrote: Huh?

"Every time I see a beggar an internal wrangle erupts: Will they spend the money I give on drugs and alcohol? Would it be better if I gave the money to a proper charity?

For a while I resolved to hand over only healthy snacks, but gave that experiment up after a peach and a muesli bar were thrown back without thanks.

Another time I pressed money into the hand of an obvious addict with a comment I instantly regretted: "Please, don't use this to shoot up."

As soon as I uttered it I knew it was entirely inappropriate to attach strings to what is supposed to be a kind gesture.

Since then I've kept a few coins in my pocket ready to hand over, without judgment and with a genuine spirit of giving."

From fuzzy's original post.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:45 pm

Funny that today I was talking to a guy. He was at the mall. A lady came up to him with a sign. It said she was deaf and she was selling pens for whatever you want to donate. He felt really bad that he only had $5 to give her. He said something about it really bothered him so he went back. She had her back turned so he yelled, "Hey". She turned around and that's when he realized that he'd been scammed. It's because of people like her that I will not hand out my hard earned money to just anyone.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:57 pm

along-for-the-ride;1222029 wrote: "Every time I see a beggar an internal wrangle erupts: Will they spend the money I give on drugs and alcohol? Would it be better if I gave the money to a proper charity?

For a while I resolved to hand over only healthy snacks, but gave that experiment up after a peach and a muesli bar were thrown back without thanks.

Another time I pressed money into the hand of an obvious addict with a comment I instantly regretted: "Please, don't use this to shoot up."

As soon as I uttered it I knew it was entirely inappropriate to attach strings to what is supposed to be a kind gesture.

Since then I've kept a few coins in my pocket ready to hand over, without judgment and with a genuine spirit of giving."

From fuzzy's original post.
I still don't get your "judge & jury" comment.

I don't give to panhandlers. If they have enough energy to walk up and down the street in 100 degree heat, they have enough energy to find work.

*making a prediction*

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:28 pm

I don't give anymore to the panhandlers, after one chased me to my car-I locked the door, and he got up on the roof of my car and started pounding on the windshield. And no one came to help me, I had to wait until he went after his next "victim." They are too aggressive here.

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:08 pm

chonsigirl;1222087 wrote: I don't give anymore to the panhandlers, after one chased me to my car-I locked the door, and he got up on the roof of my car and started pounding on the windshield. And no one came to help me, I had to wait until he went after his next "victim." They are too aggressive here.

OMG Chonsi,

That's awful....I would have been scared out of my mind..:-5

Victoria · Post by **Victoria** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:29 am

There are some here who walk up to you in the car par behind the supermarket and ask to take your cart back .. that means they get the euro coin you used to release the trolley. I use a cart coin not real money.

I know these guys and they are drunks the spend the money on cheap booze and then get drunk down by the river.

They will tell you they need the money for a place to sleep but I know the Salvation army has a place here in town its free, they only ask you be sober and drug free to get in.

I give to the Salvation army or to the food bank and even to buskers IF they are good and entertain me, but not to beggers in the street I know that money will go on booze or drugs and I cant fund someones habit because then I become part of the problem.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:54 pm

don't you guys have some kind of 'loiters' law? Where police can move them on?

along-for-the-ride · Post by **along-for-the-ride** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:46 pm

Accountable;1222084 wrote: I still don't get your "judge & jury" comment.

I don't give to panhandlers. If they have enough energy to walk up and down the street in 100 degree heat, they have enough energy to find work.

*making a prediction*

By "judging" I mean we presume to know how this individual found him/herself in this predicament as a beggar. ( alchoholism/drugs/ ignorance/poverty)

By "jury", we decide if this person is worthy of our kindness (money/ food /time)

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:56 pm

along-for-the-ride;1221987 wrote: Boiled down for a cardboard square, my marker-pen missive would simply read: "Be kind."

Does "kindness" give us the right to be judge and jury over an individual?

along-for-the-ride;1222443 wrote: By "judging" I mean we presume to know how this individual found him/herself in this predicament as a beggar. ( alchoholism/drugs/ ignorance/poverty)

By "jury", we decide if this person is worthy of our kindness (money/ food /time)
Okay, got it. Thanks.

To answer your question: Absolutely, "kindness" give us the right to be judge and jury over an individual, as you defined it. Handing out money or keeping it in my pocket both require a judgment call on my part, and acting on that judgment.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:43 pm

Accountable;1222449 wrote: Okay, got it. Thanks.

To answer your question: Absolutely, "kindness" give us the right to be judge and jury over an individual, as you defined it. Handing out money or keeping it in my pocket both require a judgment call on my part, and acting on that judgment.

Wow Kindness = Judgement??????

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:43 pm

fuzzywuzzy;1222526 wrote: Wow Kindness = Judgement??????

Surely, any interaction we have with others involves judgement - if only on the level of do I talk to them or do I walk away but certainly involves o I like them or not and will I be kind to them or not. It is an automatic part of living and is built in as part of your survival instinct.

Should we automatically give to every beggar we see without applying any form of judgement? No, I do not believe so. If, for example, you give money to someone who is already out of his head drunk knowing that he will immediately buy another drink then, to me, that is an unkindness and actively doing them harm.

Personally I'm in the "give the money to the support charity and let them make the best use of it" camp and I'm very reluctant to give to individuals.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:08 am

OK I see where you're coming from .......................can I just say that I think it's 'sad'?

because still you judge and kindness doesn't have a judgemental side

maybe it's just me I don't know *shrugs*

if i didn't like sex so much i"m sure I'd be a nun

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:27 am

fuzzywuzzy;1222526 wrote: Wow Kindness = Judgement??????
Any decision is a judgment. You decide to give to one and not to another, right? If not, I'll send you my mailing address and you can send me a check.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:34 am

fuzzywuzzy;1222545 wrote: OK I see where you're coming from .......................can I just say that I think it's 'sad'?

because still you judge and kindness doesn't have a judgemental side

maybe it's just me I don't know *shrugs*

if i didn't like sex so much i"m sure I'd be a nun
The Bible says judge not lest ye be judged. Not just judge not. You can't help making a judgment, even where kindness is concerned. Judgment is not always negative, even though we usually use it that way.