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This is really getting scary! --------Russia has for years now tested Canada's air space to see just how quick we react on them.

They don't seem to yet realize, what they want, they are not going to get from us.

Always praying our CF-18 fighters are always there for us!



Canadian jets scrambled to intercept russian bomber before obama visit

Published Today at 2:11 p.m.



Amazing this really didnt get press. You dont think they are testing??? They sense weakness IMHO.

"Canadian fighter jets scrambled to intercept a Russian plane approaching Canadian airspace shortly before U.S. President Barack Obama visited Ottawa, the defence minister said Friday.

Peter MacKay said he wasn't accusing Russia of deliberately timing the flight to coincide with the visit — when Canadian security was focused in Ottawa — but he did call it a "strong coincidence."

"It was a strong coincidence which we met with … CF-18 fighter planes and world-class pilots that know their business," said MacKay.

" sent a strong signal they should back off and stay out of our airspace.""



Russia denies plane approached Canadian airspace

-I know you do hun, and fanks!

but these two fighters were Canada's.

We do have lots, but we may need yours soon.

they want rights in the arctic with us, good luck!:-5:-5:-5

its just scary.

The Russians are not to be trusted, that's for sure. But don't you worry, Odie. You're well defended.

Home | National Defence and the Canadian Forces

Ah yes, the Russians, always good for a bit of a fly-over when your not looking.

They were buzzing Britian's airspace last year, and in those heady times the Brits could afford to put fuel in their Eurofighter Typhoon fighter aircraft to intercept the Russians, not so sure now?

It seems that someone called Fred Goodwin has run away with the crown jewels, so it may be back to simply throwing second-hand CND placards at Russian Divisions as they roll across the Northern European Plains.

Though the Germans might have something to say about that, and the French, and they have some money left for petrol.

Hey don't worry Canada, Its just sabre-rattling, it goes on all the time, the Russians know who lives just south of you guys they are just yanking your chain. The issues over who gets the polar bears floating on the fast-melting arctic are current of course, though one would think that someone should perhaps also be concerned that its actually melting away in the first place, but hey, don't mind me I am just one of those crazy scientists.



By the way, Greenland is EU territory.

Oh by the way, I hope you like British and Irish people over in Canada, because a lot of us are planning to come over and live with you now, as your the only decent country left to live in apparently (or something to that effect). So its "God Save Canada and all who sail in her", etc etc. :rolleyes:

OpenMind;1147506 wrote: The Russians are not to be trusted, that's for sure. But don't you worry, Odie. You're well defended.


Yes we are with our hornets, I well know what we have.....but one never knows, they have been testing us now for years, and just a few days before Obama arrives?



They were not after him they say, and they said they had no intention of entering our air space.........well, hell I would have said that to.

Galbally;1147532 wrote: Ah yes, the Russians, always good for a bit of a fly-over when your not looking.

They were buzzing Britian's airspace last year, and in those heady times the Brits could afford to put fuel in their Eurofighter Typhoon fighter aircraft to intercept the Russians, not so sure now?

It seems that someone called Fred Goodwin has run away with the crown jewels, so it may be back to simply throwing second-hand CND placards at Russian Divisions as they roll across the Northern European Plains.

Though the Germans might have something to say about that, and the French, and they have some money left for petrol.

Hey don't worry Canada, Its just sabre-rattling, it goes on all the time, the Russians know who lives just south of you guys they are just yanking your chain. The issues over who gets the polar bears floating on the fast-melting arctic are current of course, though one would think that someone should perhaps also be concerned that its actually melting away in the first place, but hey, don't mind me I am just one of those crazy scientists.



By the way, Greenland is EU territory.




sabre-rattling?

doubt that.

Odie;1147553 wrote: Yes we are with our hornets, I well know what we have.....but one never knows, they have been testing us now for years, and just a few days before Obama arrives?





They were not after him they say, and they said they had no intention of entering our air space.........well, hell I would have said that to.


I understand your fears, Odie. But they're just bully-boy tactics straight out of the school playground. I'd be more concerned if their planes suddenly stopped flying over your borders. That would suggest something was afoot.

That is very scary indeed Odie

Kathy Ellen;1147582 wrote: That is very scary indeed Odie


it is.......because one just never knows.

Perhaps the underlying idea is that if other countries don't exercise over what's currently international territory then after a period the nearest country can try to claim rights over it, saying nobody else uses it. So the Russians fly along the international side of your territorial airspace periodically to lay the counter-claim that it's not yours, it's everybody's. We should all be grateful for their attention to detail.

spot;1147598 wrote: Perhaps the underlying idea is that if other countries don't exercise over what's currently international territory then after a period the nearest country can try to claim rights over it, saying nobody else uses it. So the Russians fly along the international side of your territorial airspace periodically to lay the counter-claim that it's not yours, it's everybody's. We should all be grateful for their attention to detail.


they are testing to see how far then can get into Canada's air space.

Odie;1147631 wrote: they are testing to see how far then can get into Canada's air space.


Can you give any instance where Russian military planes have entered Canada's airspace without prior permission? I don't believe it's ever occurred.

Moscow and Ottawa at odds after CF-18s intercept plane on eve of Obama visit

14 hours ago

OTTAWA — Moscow and Ottawa are engaged in a war of words after Defence Minister Peter MacKay announced Friday that Canadian and U.S. fighter jets intercepted a Russian bomber and signalled it to "turn tail" over the high Arctic on the eve of American President Barack Obama's visit.

MacKay suggested the timing of the incident was suspect, but the Russians called the flight routine and indicated they were baffled by the fuss.

The announcement Friday morning of the Feb. 18 encounter raised questions about why MacKay chose to highlight it. Norad said there have been about 20 such aerial contacts between Russian and American or Canadian planes since 2007.

The Russian Defence Ministry was categoric.

Russian planes have not approached Canada's borders and Canadian authorities were informed about the flight, it said. A spokesman called MacKay's statements "nothing but farce."

No Russian aircraft actually entered Canadian airspace, but MacKay suggested the timing of the incident was worthy of note.

"Within 24 hours of the president's visit to Canada last week we did scramble two F-18 fighter planes," MacKay told a news conference.

The Canadian pilots sighted the Russian and directed it to reverse course. It did.

"They met a Russian aircraft that was approaching Canadian airspace and, as they have done on previous occasions, (the Canadians) sent very clear signals that were understood: that aircraft was to turn tail and head back to its own airspace. Which it did."

MacKay said the Russians give no warning prior to the flights, despite repeated requests to Moscow for prior notice.

"They simply show up on a radar screen," the minister said. "This is not a game at all.

"These aircraft approaching Canadian airspace are viewed very seriously."

Russian air force spokesman, Lt.-Col. Vladimir Drik said the flight had been planned in advance and was part of routine patrols. His statement carried by the state-owned RIA Novosti news agency said the crew acted according to international agreements and did not violate Canadian air space.

The Russian Defence Ministry also issued a statement in response to MacKay's claims.

"During the flight, Russian bombers strictly followed international flight regulations and excluded the very possibility of violating Canadian air space," Russian Defence Ministry spokesman Alexander Drobyshevsky said. "Border countries have been notified about the flights."

He said the only recent flight carried out by a Tu-160 bomber took place last Wednesday.

"The statements by Canada's defence minister about flights of our aircraft are absolutely incomprehensible," Drobyshevsky said. "They are nothing but farce."

The Russian Embassy in Ottawa was closed on Friday, taking a long weekend to mark Protector of Motherland Day.

Speaking in Saskatoon, Prime Minister Stephen Harper called the incident "a real concern to us."

"I've expressed at various times the deep concern our government has with increasingly aggressive Russian actions around the globe and Russian intrusions into our airspace," Harper said.

"This government has responded every time the Russians have done that. We will continue to respond; we will defend our airspace."

The CF-18s took off from Cold Lake, Alta., after Norad detected what a Defence official confirmed was a Cold War-era, long-range Tupolev Tu-95 bomber - known as a Bear - headed for Canadian airspace

MacKay suggested the Russians may have been testing Norad's response while national security was focused on Ottawa in advance of Obama's first foreign trip since his inauguration.

"I'm not going to stand here and accuse the Russians of deliberately doing this during the presidential visit," he said. "But it was a strong coincidence, which we met with the presence, as we always do, of F-18 fighter planes and world-class pilots that know their business."

New Democrat MP Paul Dewar suggested the minister's decision to underline one incident among many is suspicious.

"The question is why is Mr. MacKay stating these things now?" Dewar said. "And where is the co-operation here that we need to see between polar countries?

"I think what Peter might be doing here is trying to go back to the '50s and play a little Cold War. Well, I'm sorry, but you know what? If he wants to play a game of Risk in his basement, that's up to him, but it has no place in terms of diplomacy."

Russian aircraft regularly encroached on North American airspace during the Cold War and Canadian and American fighters routinely tracked the snoopers and escorted them back into international airspace.

Such flights were suspended for years after the collapse of the Soviet Union, but resumed in August 2007 as Russia pushed its claim on the Arctic and oil wealth allowed the country to spend more on its military.

Pilots tend to consider the intercepts a symbol of status rather than of hostile action, often exchanging smiles while taking photographs and video at 30,000 feet or so.

"Russian long-range activity is part of their training exercises and so we do see this," said Canadian navy Lt. Desmond James, a spokesman at Norad headquarters in Colorado Springs, Colo. "We don't treat it as a hostile intent as much as a training exercise.

"On our part, we go up to make sure they know that while they are doing their training, we do know that they're there and we are watching, prepared to respond should they decide that they're going to alter their course in a threatening manner.

"We have to let the Russians - any aircraft - know that we are in a position to respond."

U.S. air force Gen. Gene Renuart, head of the North American Aerospace Defence Command, said Friday pilots use internationally recognized signals to head off such incursions, including rocking wings, turning in front of the bombers and issuing radio warnings.

"While we do not speak the common language, they are trained in those common signals just as we are," said Renuart. "To date, those have been effective in deviating or deterring those aircraft from entering into either Canadian or American airspace."

The Russian pilots have been "professional" in their conduct, he added, but it's important for Canada and the United States to maintain "that solid, integrated air defence posture that we have."

A Russian lieutenant-general said when the flights resumed that the West would have to come to terms with Russia asserting its geopolitical reach around the globe. "But I don't see anything unusual; this is business as usual," he said.

Former Russian President Vladimir Putin, now prime minister, said at the time the patrols would be conducted in areas of Russian economic interest and active shipping, rather than in regions required for "deterrence of a missile-nuclear attack on Russia."

There have been "easily more than 20" such encounters since mid-2007, James said. Similar flights have occurred elsewhere.

"It's not an isolated thing," James said. "It's become more common and more prevalent throughout the world."

The Bear, which is easily recognized by its sharply swept wings and the double, counter-rotating propellers on its four engines, first flew in 1951 but experts consider it a more formidable nuclear delivery device than ever, despite its advanced age.

Odie;1147631 wrote: [QUOTE=Odie;1147638]The Russian Defence Ministry was categoric.

Russian planes have not approached Canada's borders and Canadian authorities were informed about the flight, it said. A spokesman called MacKay's statements "nothing but farce."

No Russian aircraft actually entered Canadian airspace


they are testing to see how far then can get into Canada's air space.


Can you give any instance where Russian military planes have entered Canada's airspace without prior permission? I don't believe it's ever occurred.

spot;1147640 wrote: Can you give any instance where Russian military planes have entered Canada's airspace without prior permission? I don't believe it's ever occurred.




MacKay said the Russians give no warning prior to the flights, despite repeated requests to Moscow for prior notice.

Odie;1147644 wrote: MacKay said the Russians give no warning prior to the flights, despite repeated requests to Moscow for prior notice.


Can you give any instance where Russian military planes have entered Canada's airspace without prior permission? I don't believe it's ever occurred.

spot;1147645 wrote: Can you give any instance where Russian military planes have entered Canada's airspace without prior permission? I don't believe it's ever occurred.


they have never had the chance to.

Odie;1147650 wrote: they have never had the chance to.


I suggest my interpretation makes a lot more sense than the idea that each time they patrol in International airspace they're secretly hoping to encroach inside Canada's. You'd think if that were the objective they'd have succeeded at some point.

Your OP implies Russia was trying to kill the US President on Canadian soil. Does that not sound at least slightly insane, as notions go? Or did you actually mean to imply something different which I haven't grasped?

spot;1147656 wrote: I suggest my interpretation makes a lot more sense than the idea that each time they patrol in International airspace they're secretly hoping to encroach inside Canada's. You'd think if that were the objective they'd have succeeded at some point.

Your OP implies Russia was trying to kill the US President on Canadian soil. Does that not sound at least slightly insane, as notions go? Or did you actually mean to imply something different which I haven't grasped?


awful coincidence Russia did it then, but as earlier said, this has been going on now for quite some time, with no permission from Canada.

Odie;1147657 wrote: awful coincidence Russia did it then, but as earlier said, this has been going on now for quite some time, with no permission from Canada.


And why would the Russians need permission from Canada to patrol in International airspace?

spot;1147659 wrote: And why would the Russians need permission from Canada to patrol in International airspace?


I am talking about Canada's airspace.

and if it was intentionally last week when Obama's visit was upon us, do you actually think Russia would say it was?

Odie;1147660 wrote: I am talking about Canada's airspace.But you've said yourself that Russian military planes have never entered Canada's airspace without prior permission and you're agreeing that the Russians don't need permission from Canada to patrol in International airspace. There seems nothing left in between to be a problem!

Odie;1147644 wrote: MacKay said the Russians give no warning prior to the flights, despite repeated requests to Moscow for prior notice.


did you not read this?

I never said they did not need permission to come into Canada's airspace.....not internally airspace, Canada's as I have repeatedly said.

The problem is that the Russian planes aim a course directly for Canada's airspace in the course of their International space patrol. Naturally, Canada acts to divert the planes once their trajectory should be showing signs of diverting. There is a protocol established whereby actual intention is to be conferred by flight patterns.

It is synonymous to somebody encroaching on one's personal space. A person's personal space can be given as that space circumscribed by their outstretched arms. If someone actually moves within this area without permission, the body instinctively reacts against it.

In the same way, if the Russian planes are heading directly for Canadian airspace and are not showing any signs of diverting within a given distance allowing for normal manoevring, the Canadians are quite right to assume a defensive stance.

Russia are being impolite by using these tactics which are nothing short of imbecilic. They are quite capable of contacting Canada beforehand and communicating their intentions, which would be a better diplomatic attitude rather than just testing Canada's nerves.

OpenMind;1147687 wrote: The problem is that the Russian planes aim a course directly for Canada's airspace in the course of their International space patrol. Naturally, Canada acts to divert the planes once their trajectory should be showing signs of diverting. There is a protocol established whereby actual intention is to be conferred by flight patterns.

It is synonymous to somebody encroaching on one's personal space. A person's personal space can be given as that space circumscribed by their outstretched arms. If someone actually moves within this area without permission, the body instinctively reacts against it.

In the same way, if the Russian planes are heading directly for Canadian airspace and are not showing any signs of diverting within a given distance allowing for normal manoevring, the Canadians are quite right to assume a defensive stance.

Russia are being impolite by using these tactics which are nothing short of imbecilic. They are quite capable of contacting Canada beforehand and communicating their intentions, which would be a better diplomatic attitude rather than just testing Canada's nerves.


They are trying to enter ours for a purpose of trying to take over arctic space here.....to dump their nuclear waste.



Of course they are to contact us ahead of time, but they are hoping one day to get into our airspace for that reason.

Odie;1147699 wrote: They are trying to enter ours for a purpose of trying to take over arctic space here.....to dump their nuclear waste.





Of course they are to contact us ahead of time, but they are hoping one day to get into our airspace for that reason.


Why bother with these tactics then? They can't fly into your space without your permission. Even the Russians are not so thick as to believe they'll be able to fly into your airspace without being detected, or maybe they think your boys will take the day off en masse leaving Canada defenceless. I think not.

Jester;1147705 wrote: Its to provoke a response by the canadians, its purposeful.

What the canadians need to do is send up several aricraft to video it, let the provocative aircraft enter canadian airspace and blow it out of the sky, then thumb thier nose at moscow. Dont warn it off at all, no communication or warning, the air to air missle should be warning enough to moscow. If the aircraft turns tail on thier own, just publish it all over youtube how chicken the russians are.

Either way Canada wins.


Wanna be in charge of our Canadian Armed Forces?

we want Jester, we want Jester!

Scrat;1147767 wrote: Oh my god. The Russians are coming.



Nothing like getting those pilots out of their bunks 'eh? Just think of it, if it wasn't for the Russians flying 50 year old TU-95 BEARS AND PLAYING CHICKEN THEY'D GET BEDSORES!! So the Canadian pilots get to feel important, to justfy their existence. Must've been a slow day.

This was a routine mission, they never crossed into Canadian airspace. They were flying at 45000 feet, visible on radars all over the north western hemisphere. They were doing the usual snooping which all sides do and probably just wanted to go home.

This flight was scheduled 2 weeks in advance, when the Russians planned it they didn't know Obama was going to be there. Perhaps the president should quit being so provactive to the Russians and fly on another day. No?

As for the growing concerns between US/Canada and Russia about the arctic (what this is truely about) Russia has the better part of the goods on her side of the border. She also has the means to protect it.


and how do you know the Russians had planned this? Canada didn't.

and did they notify Canada, god no....and they are always supposed to, but never do.:sneaky:

and the arctic space they want, is in Canada.

The Russians are playing nazi games.

like Jester said, let them come in just a tad......and blow them away!

then, perhaps they will leave us alone.

Jester;1147781 wrote: It would be funny, cept the pilots are just pawns.

Seriously though russia isnt flexing thier military muscle, its flexing thier capital muscles, thier deal making ability, just letting everyone in the world know they are an up in coming super power again.


and were up there to, just making sure.

omg...........I never said they entered Canada's airspace!:-5:-5

Odie;1147862 wrote: omg...........I never said it entered Canada's airspace!:-5:-5


Then what in the name of all things holy do you want them to ask permission for?

spot;1147863 wrote: Then what in the name of all things holy do you want them to ask permission for?




-they were HEADED towards Canada's airspace, why do you think our fighters met them?



did you not read they turned around after being told to?



Spot, I give up with you, you are not understanding anything here and your continuance of twisting my words is extremely overbearing and I find it quite childish that you must try to compete with everything, but this time, you loose.

Odie;1147866 wrote: -they were HEADED towards Canada's airspace, why do you think our fighters met them?



did you not read they turned around after being told to?



Spot, I give up with you, you are not understanding anything here and your continuance of twisting my words is extremely overbearing and I find it quite childish that you must try to compete with everything, but this time, you loose.


So - let me get this right - you want anyone flying in International airspace who's headed toward Canadian airspace to ask permission beforehand? Even though, as you agreed earlier, no Russian military planes have ever entered Canada's airspace without prior permission?

Why? Why should they ask permission beforehand in those circumstances? Are you assuming they'd not have turned round of their own accord before reaching Canadian airspace? Despite the fact that they always have in the past? There's no justification at all for thinking that, if it's what you're thinking.

I'll ask again. You want them to ask for permission. Permission to do what? They've no intention of entering Canadian airspace. Sending military planes into another country's airspace without prior permission is an act of war, how can you think the Russians intended to enter Canadian airspace? And since it's obvious they had no such intention, what is it permission to do?

spot;1147868 wrote: So - let me get this right - you want anyone flying in International airspace who's headed toward Canadian airspace to ask permission beforehand? Even though, as you agreed earlier, no Russian military planes have ever entered Canada's airspace without prior permission?

Why? Why should they ask permission beforehand in those circumstances? Are you assuming they'd not have turned round of their own accord before reaching Canadian airspace? Despite the fact that they always have in the past? There's no justification at all for thinking that, if it's what you're thinking.

I'll ask again. You want them to ask for permission. Permission to do what? They've no intention of entering Canadian airspace. Sending military planes into another country's airspace without prior permission is an act of war, how can you think the Russians intended to enter Canadian airspace? And since it's obvious they had no such intention, what is it permission to do?


Did you read any of the article I posted?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They met a Russian aircraft that was approaching Canadian airspace and, as they have done on previous occasions, (the Canadians) sent very clear signals that were understood: that aircraft was to turn tail and head back to its own airspace. Which it did."

Odie;1147895 wrote: Did you read any of the article I posted?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They met a Russian aircraft that was approaching Canadian airspace and, as they have done on previous occasions, (the Canadians) sent very clear signals that were understood: that aircraft was to turn tail and head back to its own airspace. Which it did."


And which it would have done regardless of whether it was ordered to or not.

What basis have you for believing otherwise?

What permission do you think they ought to ask for beforehand? You keep not answering that. Surely you have a specific request in mind. I'd like to know what it is.

spot;1147900 wrote: And which it would have done regardless of whether it was ordered to or not.

What basis have you for believing otherwise?

What permission do you think they ought to ask for beforehand? You keep not answering that. Surely you have a specific request in mind. I'd like to know what it is.


this is not about myself and what kinds of permissions they should ask is it.:rolleyes:

It's not up to me to decide that;)

Odie;1147910 wrote: this is not about myself and what kinds of permissions they should ask is it.:rolleyes:

It's not up to me to decide that;)


You're the one who says they should ask permission. Permission to do what?