Our 6000 Year Old Earth

[Lon]

There are many people that believe that our earth and all life began some 6,000 years ago and totally disregard that Radio Carbon Dating has any validity. I don't wish to debate the issue, but am curious as to whether or not any FG members believe in the 6,000 year creation, more importantly, if we leave out the bible, are there any other sources to substantiate the 6,000 year creation?

[Amber Sun]

Lon;1145580 wrote: There are many people that believe that our earth and all life began some 6,000 years ago and totally disregard that Radio Carbon Dating has any validity. I don't wish to debate the issue, but am curious as to whether or not any FG members believe in the 6,000 year creation, more importantly, if we leave out the bible, are there any other sources to substantiate the 6,000 year creation?




Only a person 'programmed' into a particular religious belief system might believe that.

The bible is actually made up of old stories that are all prior the A.D. period. They are a mix of ancient Sumerian, Egyptian and in fact the whole Middle East and beyond. There have been a number of Divine children throughout history because these stories are concepts not real people, although real people were used to portray them. What has happened is that people started taking literally what should have been taken symbolically.

[Daniyal]

Amber Sun;1145670 wrote: Only a person 'programmed' into a particular religious belief system might believe that.

The bible is actually made up of old stories that are all prior the A.D. period. They are a mix of ancient Sumerian, Egyptian and in fact the whole Middle East and beyond. There have been a number of Divine children throughout history because these stories are concepts not real people, although real people were used to portray them. What has happened is that people started taking literally what should have been taken symbolically.




Your On Point With Most Of What Your Saying .

[Lon]

[QUOTE=Themis;1145598]The Bible is not the original source of the 7 day creation story..

Agreed-----------but don't the Creationists use the bible as their reference and justification of belief? I wasn't looking for the source of the story, but any legitimate data that would justify this belief.

[Ted]

Lon:-6

Of course the 6000 year old world is total absurdity. But yes there are some, if not many, folks who still believe that.

As for the religious theme parks they are quite legal even if they are wrong.

Shalom

Ted:-6

[Lon]

Jester;1146404 wrote: Lon, when a study gets published and the archeologist publishes ALL of his tests using Carbon 14 testing, and not just the ones he selected out of the many tests done then I will give more credibility to carbon 14 testing. Also, another common method is not not test objects at all, but to rely on reivious data form the same site, alos not acceptable to me scientifically speaking.

In my opinon carbon 14 testing is unreliable.

The only non biblical method I know of to accurately establish mankind is to trace back lineages. (birth records).


Do you accept the 6,000 year concept?

[Amber Sun]

Daniyal;1145766 wrote: Your On Point With Most Of What Your Saying .


LOL, regarding this topic I'm 'on point with all I am saying'.

[Lon]

Jester;1146452 wrote: As near as I can figure the date of the creation of mankind was approx. 1APR3975- thats 3975 years to the birth of Christ, on 1 APR2009 the mankind will be 5984 years old.

I accept that the earth was created in 7 days, just like the biblical record states, however, I have not been convinced yet that there was not a delay between the 1-4 'days' of the creation record.

I estimate based on the scientific data I have read that the earth could be between 12000 and 6000 years old-

I do not have faith in any of the current methods of fossil dating beyond 12000 years old.

And thats my best guesstimate for ya.


Hmm-------------Thanks for the response Jester

[Lon]

Jester;1146478 wrote: No problem Sir,

Ya got me curious though Lon, in the past week now you've posted a series of health threads and now some threads that dance on the edge of questioning religion and philosophy.

Might I ask a personal question?

Why?


No problem------------The health threads, philosophy and religion postings were generated by some articles that I have been reading, plus my insatiable curiosity about what people think and believe, and why.

In regard to this present post on the "6,000 year old earth", I had been reading a series of articles by Creationists trying to make their case by citing scientists (without credentials) that dispute what I thought was indisputable Radio Carbon Dating. I found this incredulous and know no one personally that buys into this 6,000 year old fairy tale (no offense). My own academic back round in the sciences

precludes me accepting the Creationists beliefs. It's gets down to that old saw that belief is paramount to religion. You either got it or ya don't. Creationist and Evolutionists have been at it a long time and neither is about to give an inch.

I feel the case for Evolution is overwhelming, but more importantly, that the case for this earths birth being eons ago even more overwhelming. This post will no more change your thinking on the subject any more than you will change mine.

So be it.

[spot]

Jester;1146557 wrote: I wish I could find the link, and the quote from a canadian archeologist who sometime in the mid 80's at a huge scientific seminar blew the doors off radio carbon dating (carbon 14 dating) by exposing the 'data that was left out' of the dating of different fossils in a bunch of studies that were then being flooded into the archeology data system. Basicly they data testors were not doing it blind or double blind, and they were also doing multiple tests (for accuracy) and they purposely left out any data that did not support the conclusion, and he sited specific data that was left out with a huge range of aged dates- the majority fo the dates in one study as I recall were in the 4000 year range, but only three date ranges were selected in the final study- which were billions of years from the majority of the tests data. But that didnt fit the outcome expected so they just left it out. I wish you could find it too because it seems central to your blinkered perspective. No scientific paper that I've seen has ever attempted to use Carbon 14 dating beyond 40,000 years into the past.

[Daniyal]

Amber Sun;1146473 wrote: LOL, regarding this topic I'm 'on point with all I am saying'.






Okkkkkkkkkkkk

[Bez]

I have personally wondered how to marry together science and scriptures. I believe in evolution, the dramatic changes of planet earth...ice ages etc..... in other words i believe the science behind it all.



When the scriptures were written, humans had a totally different knowledge base I guess.

[Clodhopper]

When the scriptures were written, humans had a totally different knowledge base I guess. (my bold)

For me, Bez has hit on the key point.

It's an ongoing process too: In 5,000 years time (assuming we are still here) people will use that exact phrase about us, I'm sure. Jester is definitely right that some at least of what we now believe to be fact will prove not to be so in the future.

The way I see it is that the early stories, the legends, the creation myths of many cultures, are all attempts to describe who we are and how we got here based on the knowledge available at the time.

Doesn't mean there isn't truth in there, certainly about humanity and maybe about God too. I just don't think it's literal truth.

[Daniyal]

Jester;1146938 wrote: Heck yes, I much prefer these agree to disagree discussion, see when its on freindly terms I'll go google the things you mentioned, makes all the difference in the world !


Then why don't you google [ egyptian/myan cultures are older than Adam ] and see what you come up with ?

[spot]

Themis;1146580 wrote: A story of two Bishops....

one denies the Nazis used gas chambersHave you actually read what he did say, instead of what you've just invented he said? What he did say is absolutely impossible to interpret as you've interpreted it. Strictly speaking and to be entirely fair to the chap, what he actually did say was true.Jewish groups have voiced outrage that Williamson recently told Swedish television that "historical evidence is hugely against 6 million Jews having been deliberately gassed in gas chambers as a deliberate policy of Adolf Hitler."

http://ncronline.org/node/3252

I take that, given its source, to be an accurate quote. I know lots of alternate wordings have been bandied about. I've not seen the original article which caused all the fuss. If the National Catholic Reporter is accurate though - and it enjoys a good reputation - the words complained of are entirely correct. Nobody in their right mind thinks 6 million Jews were deliberately gassed in gas chambers. 6 million Jews were undoubtedly deliberately killed in the German Holocaust but they didn't all die in gas chambers - at least a million were simply shot into mass graves by execution squads during the advance into Russia.

[Bryn Mawr]

Jester;1146404 wrote: Lon, when a study gets published and the archeologist publishes ALL of his tests using Carbon 14 testing, and not just the ones he selected out of the many tests done then I will give more credibility to carbon 14 testing. Also, another common method is not not test objects at all, but to rely on reivious data form the same site, alos not acceptable to me scientifically speaking.

In my opinon carbon 14 testing is unreliable.

The only non biblical method I know of to accurately establish mankind is to trace back lineages. (birth records).


Two questions then :-

Do you accept the findings of dendrochronology or ice core sampling which both show ages greater than six thousand years (presumably not so how do you discredit them)?

Will you post links to evidence showing selective publishing of sampled dates? It's bad form and they get thrown out of the Tufty Club if they're caught :wah:

[Chookie]

Jester;1146823 wrote: But the bible covers all of human history,


But it doesn't, it reputedly covers the history of one tribe of middle-eastern nomads, from the Garden of Eden, via the Flood, to the Roman occupation of Palestine.

[Lon]

Jester;1146557 wrote: Sorry Lon, I was here but then smelled diesel and discovered about a 40 gallon leak of it, bummer, got it cleaned up though.

As far as creation goes- by faith I accept it. It's difficult to actually express my level of trust in my faith. Faith in my opinion, is believeing something without having evidence, I have to trust it is true. The concepts are almost the same, but differ slightly.

For me, man cant explain things to my satisfaction. The evolutionist says xxx fossil places its 'life' 12 million years ago- and growing up I heard and read these kinds of things, then one day I started reading some encyclopedias and discovered that the scientists argue back and forth constantly with opposing points of view even though they were using the same data? And it dawned on me that man isnt as smart as they think they are (me too).

I realize science is fallable, and later on I realized man lies to prove his own point very often- evolution, despite the hubbub about 'precision scientific data collection methods' still cant agree on what it means half the time. Evolution, has an agenda, and it has backers and those backers run the money that grants education programs to scientists. It's all over in the grant community what to study to get the grant bucks- and even what results they want you to come up with.

There is no accurate method to date a fossil, period.

I wish I could find the link, and the quote from a canadian archeologist who sometime in the mid 80's at a huge scientific seminar blew the doors off radio carbon dating (carbon 14 dating) by exposing the 'data that was left out' of the dating of different fossils in a bunch of studies that were then being flooded into the archeology data system. Basicly they data testors were not doing it blind or double blind, and they were also doing multiple tests (for accuracy) and they purposely left out any data that did not support the conclusion, and he sited specific data that was left out with a huge range of aged dates- the majority fo the dates in one study as I recall were in the 4000 year range, but only three date ranges were selected in the final study- which were billions of years from the majority of the tests data. But that didnt fit the outcome expected so they just left it out.

My love of God, and the accuracy of the bible proved out in my life, makes me give far more credibilty to it than to a scientist that falls victim to his own bias and hi pocket book everytime. For me, the bible has become a guidebook, and when I follow those principles mentioned then exactly whats promised is given and I find truth in that. It's far easier to trust something thats been proven than to trust in a field of study thats corrupt.

The date that I posted above comes from a study of the lineage fo the biblical record mixed with historical landmarks that tie in the dates of recorded occurances in time. For instance we know the agesof the men as recorded in scritpture, what the authtors of the book I read did was trace thos eback in a time line and establish a starting point. I trust in the accuracy of th ebible well enough to get that fine of a ball park estimate-

Most folks would just say yer crazy Jester- and to some I am, but I'll tell you one thing, man lies and so far God hasnt lied to me yet.

Honestly I still find it difficult to accept that the earth is this young (6000), my mind has a difficult time grasping that, but in the other end my mind has a difficult time grasping eternity too.

I have two other reason why I belive we were created... the first being that all aroudn me there is a constant of cause and effect, where was this act of evolution first caused?

Second- The further out we see in the universe it keeps getting larger. And conversely the smaller we can see, it just keeps getting smaller, more complicated. So far my experience is that the what was created is degrading and not evolving into higher anything- the theory of evolution is backwards.

I of course am always trying to figure this out, much like you do. As far as changin my mind or me changing yours, im not interested in that at all. I respect you a lot Lon, your ideas are yours, I appreciate the way in which you dicsuss them.


Well ---we at least share one thing in common and that being we are both members of a small minority on this planet. Me as an atheist and you as a

Christian that believes in a late (6000 years) earth, dinosaur and human beginning.

[Daniyal]

The so-called Biblical and Korainc Scholar don't have any clue about Egyptian calendar . They try to place everything around B.C. When the Sphinx and water logging prove that The Ancient Egyptian Culture date back over 10,000 years ago . Their sole purpose for doing this is to make The Bible look Authentic , By this I mean , According to your Biblical and Korainc Scholar, Life on The Planet Earth Began 4 , 004 to 10,000 years a ago with the creation of Adam and Eve . Here again , The Beginning of Civilization is based on The Bible which would mean according to them ( Biblical Estimation , Humans ) Are Just 10,000 Years Old At The Most Which would make them Infants , Not , If there are Archaeological finding that date back further than their date which proves that Humans were in existence long before then . That would mean their Bible is wrong , All I ask them is to simply explain it . Because they are either Estimating The Creation Of Adam And Eve Incorrectly , Or The Bible And Koran that they have been teaching and basing their '' Theories '' On , Are Lying , Or The Archaoelogists who are digging up these Aritifacts are Lying .



Now to make the determination of who is Lying or Not , Ask Religious Scholars , '' Where is their tangible evidence ? And I Am Not Talking About Their Outdated , Obsolete , Unauthentic '' Holy Books '' . These very books that they are holding in their hand , Men can't explain right now , Such as the book of reavelation nor could they explain these books back then . Let's not forget that The Koran which is The Baby of them all is only 1,400 Years Old . The New Testament is 2,000 Years Old . And The Old Testament is 6,000 Years Old . So to them His -Story Began When They Start Wrotten It Down . Yet The Egyptian Were Already Writing Their - Story On The Walls In Ancient Egypt And Sumer And On Papyrus Scrolls . Egyptian Were Already Building Their Stoet With The Construction Of Pyramids . Temples , Tekhen ( Obelisks ) , Ziggurats , Egyptians Started Telling Their Story When They Made Olmec Statues , Raised Their Hands In Praise To Their Deities , And Wrote In Cuneifoem On Stone Tablets .



Lesten , There is No Log of a man names Moses ever being in Egypt there is a Thutmose that is spoken of which is where they grafted the name Moses from . It is recorded in their Bible that Moses received '' Tables '' or Tablets in Exodus 31 ; 18 from '' The Lord '' This Lord that they are talking about is The Deity Tehuti also known as Thoth who gave Tablets to Thutmos which is where The Bible gets its story . The Mose was the name of the person and he was in The School Of Thoth , Thus Thutmose . It doesn't have anything to do with the Hebraic Moses . This is another plagiarized story from The Ancient Egyptian Culture by people who can't explain their origin . So they don't want anyone else to know their own . Just because the name Moses sound like Thutmose doesn't mean that it was the same person . In other words , Every Muhammad Is Not Muhammad , The Arabian Prophet , Every Jesus Is Not The Jesus Of Your Bible . Because there are people even today , Name Jesus and Muhammad , And that doesn't make them The Prophets .



While we are on the subject of Plagiarism . The Ten Commandment of Exodus 20 ; 1 - 19 were taken right from The Ancient Egyptian Book Of The Dead '' Declaraion Of Innocence Before The Netru Of The Tribunal'' While The So - Called Jews have recorded in their Bible that The Egyptian Were Pagans . They Were Busy Stealing Their Culture . '



' Declaraion Of Innocence Before The Netru Of The Tribunal''



O wide - strider who came forth from Anu ( Heliopolis ) , I Have Not Done Wrong .



O he - who - sees - what - he - has - brought who came forth from the house of Father Min . I Have Not ( Wrongly ) Copulated .



O fire - embracer who came from Khemennu ( Hermopolis ) Ancient religious city in middle Al Kham associated with Tehuti ) , I Have Not Robbed .



O demoslisher who came forth , I Have Not Transgressed .



O nosey who came forth from Khemernnu ( Hermopolis Ancient Religious City In Middle Al Kham Accociated With Tehuri ) , I Have Not Stolen .



O dark one who came forth from darkness , I Have Not Cursed .



O swallower of shades who came forth from Kernet , I Have Not Slain People .



O Nefetum who came forth from Hettahka ( Memphis - Cult Center Of Ptah ) . I Have Not Done Wrong , I Have Not Done Evil ,



O terrible of face who came forth from Rasta ( Rosetjau - Name Of The Necropolis Of Giza Or Memphis , Also Passages In The Tomb Leading To The Other World ) , I Have Not Destroyed The Food Offering .



O He - Who - Prospers - The - Common - People who came forth from Asyut ( Ancient Twon In Middle Al Kham ) , I Have Not Cursed A Neteru



O ruty ( Double Lion , Form Of The Sub Deity With Two Lions Back To Back ) Who came forth from The Ilu '' The Sky Above '' I Have Not Reduced Measures .



O He - Who - Brightens - The - Land who came forth from faiyum ( Inlake And Marsh Area Of The West Nile , Center Of Crocodil Neter ) , I Have Not Slain Sacred Cattle .



O He- Whose - Eyes - Are - In - Flames who came forth from asyut ( Ancient Town In Middle Al Kham ) , I Have Not Stolen The Neteru's Property .



O doubly evil one who came forth from the busirite nome , I Have Not Had Intercourse With A Married Woman .



O He - Of The - Cavern Who came forth from the west , I Have Not Fornicated With The Fornicator .



O eater of entrails who came forth from the council of thirty , I Have Not Robbed A Parecl Of Land .



( Now Compare What You Have Just Read To The Ten Commandment Of The By - Bill - Bible )





Ten Commandments



( 1 ) . You Are To Have No 'Other Eloheem Except Me .

( 2 ) . You Will Not Make For Yourself Any 'Idol '' At All , Any 'Likeness 'In The 'Skies ' 'Above ' Or That Is In The Planet Earth From Beneath Or In The 'Waters ' From Under The Planet Earth .

( 3 ) . You Will Not 'Prostrate' Yourself To Them , Nor 'Slave ' Them ; For I A Yahuwa Eloheek Am A 'Jealous ' El , The One Visiting The Iniquity Of The Father Upon The Children Up To The Third And Forth Generation Of Them That Hate Me .

( 4 ) . You Should Not Take The Name Of A Yahuwa Eloheek And Use It Falsely For A Yahuwa Will Not Hold Him Guiltless That Not Hold Him Guiltless ' That Takes His Name And Use It Falsely

( 5 ) . Zawkar 'Remember The Sabbath Day , To Keep It Holy .

( 6 ) . You Are Not To Figh To Kill '

( 7 ) . You Are Not To Commit Abomionations .

( 8 ) You Will Not Steal .

( 9 ) . You Are Not To Bear False Witness Against You Neighbors , Friends -

( 10 ) . You Will Not Desire Your Israelite Neighbors , Friends House , You Will Not Desire Your Israelite Neighbors Friends Confidante Wife , Nor His Male Slave , Nor His Female Slave , Nor His Ox , Or His Ass , Nor Anything That Is Your Israelite Neighbors Friends .

[Lon]

Just think-------------all this is just 6,000 years????



Last of the Neanderthals — Photo Gallery — National Geographic Magazine

[Clodhopper]

Jester: I reckon that's your spare time occupied for the forseeable future!:p+

I suppose from your point of view, well, God created it the way it is for His own reasons.

Faith is Faith.

[Clodhopper]

It's a wonderful place, for sure.

[Ted]

Carbon 14 is only one of a list of dating methods. The limits of C-14 are well known but other methods, some 18-20 of them are able to date millions of years. There is more then one way to find ancient dates.

Shalom

Ted:-6

[Bryn Mawr]

Themis;1147258 wrote: Look at the platonic year also called the great year.. this is the cycle of the wobble of Earth which roughly takes 26 thousand years per cycle.. this is where the story of the "ages" come from.. and Jesus spoke about the "ages" so even Jesus didn't believe the world was 6000 years old.

He knew that the end of the age would come..

look at the ages and how they correspond to our past and history:

Age of Gemini = sign = the twin = year 5970 BC - history = Adam and Eve

Age of Taurus = sign = the Bull = 3814 BC - history = Egypt/Apis the bull

Age of Aries = sign = the Ram = 1658 BC - history = Mithra/Moses

Age of Pisces = sign = two Fish = AD 49 - history = Jesus fisher of men

next the Age of Aquarius...

The man who pores the water.. yeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaa


If the "ages" relate to the precession of the axis then why do they change every 2156 years?

and wasn't Aries a bit short?