How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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xfrodobagginsx
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by xfrodobagginsx »

FourPart wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:01 am
xfrodobagginsx wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:49 pm Revival: Despite gov't bans, churches growing

https://www.wnd.com/2020/07/revival-des ... s-growing/
https://news.gallup.com/poll/248837/chu ... cades.aspx
That's too bad. I am sorry to hear this but I know it's true. Christ is about to return to the earth and people need to be ready.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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I strongly urge you all to place your faith in Jesus Christ for Salvation, believing in your heart that He died and rose again as a Sacrifice for your sins. I truly believe that He is about to return. When the Christians are taken out of the way, satan will be free to unleash his hell on earth. (The Great Tribulation). Don't take the mark of the beast or you will automatically go to hell. It's like selling your soul to satan.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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This has long been rather obvious to me since I returned to The South after a few years spent going to school in California.
Not that it is just in the South, by any means. Some of the worst examples of racism and bigotry I ever witnessed were in the North.
This author makes some very good points about how our "Christian Heritage" has long been a contributing factor.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
While it may seem obvious to mainstream white Christians today that slavery, segregation and overt declarations of white supremacy are antithetical to the teachings of Jesus, such a conviction is, in fact, a recent development for most white American Christians and churches, both Protestant and Catholic.

The unsettling truth is that, for nearly all of American history, the light-skinned Jesus conjured up by most white congregations was not merely indifferent to the status quo of racial inequality; he demanded its defense and preservation as part of the natural, divinely ordained order of things.

Racism among white Christians is higher than among the nonreligious. That's no coincidence. - By Robert P. Jones, CEO and founder PRRI
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by spot »

If you look at the newsreels of the Civil Rights movement from the mid-sixties, you'll see a lot of weapon-carrying intransigent racists lined up to obstruct the marchers and the students trying to access segregated colleges. Few descriptions would sum them up more accurately than "White Christians". One consequence of that is the continued existence of effectively segregated congregations in America to this day, though the fact is disguised with a host of euphemisms. Black Majority Church, for example.

Here's a photo of a service this year, plucked at random from the Internet. https://www.christiantoday.com/article/ ... 134612.htm

Anyone see any non-white members in that congregation?

Christianity is the last outpost of practiced segregation in America and for some reason no American appears to find that abhorrent.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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spot wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:53 am If you look at the newsreels of the Civil Rights movement from the mid-sixties, you'll see a lot of weapon-carrying intransigent racists lined up to obstruct the marchers and the students trying to access segregated colleges. Few descriptions would sum them up more accurately than "White Christians". One consequence of that is the continued existence of effectively segregated congregations in America to this day, though the fact is disguised with a host of euphemisms. Black Majority Church, for example.

Here's a photo of a service this year, plucked at random from the Internet. https://www.christiantoday.com/article/ ... 134612.htm

Anyone see any non-white members in that congregation?

Christianity is the last outpost of practiced segregation in America and for some reason no American appears to find that abhorrent.
While many White racists take refuge in their segregated churches, not all churches are segregated. A personal friend of mine is a pastor of a rather large, well-integrated church in Southern Alabama. His grandfather walked with King and Lewis at The Bridge. His family (White) has long championed integration and equality.

The Church is NOT a refuge for racism. Racist have built a false church to a false God. They will find the path that they walk to be leading to a place that they long hoped to avoid.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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Why are the Whites the only racists? There are Black Churches also. The truth is that racism has no place in the Church. Everyone should be welcome at any Church regardless of color.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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xfrodobagginsx wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:26 pm Why are the Whites the only racists?

That is a darned good question.
They may not be the only Racists, but in this country, they have perfected the process.
xfrodobagginsx wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:26 pmThere are Black Churches also.
There are Black Churches, because of Racism. Blacks were made to know that they were not welcome in many "White" Churches. So they had to build their own.
xfrodobagginsx wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:26 pmThe truth is that racism has no place in the Church.
Everyone should be welcome at any Church regardless of color.
You are absolutely correct!
I have never been in a "Black" Church where I felt the least bit unwelcome. I can't say that for all the "White" Churches that I have visited.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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xfrodobagginsx wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:00 am I strongly urge you all to place your faith in Jesus Christ for Salvation, believing in your heart that He died and rose again as a Sacrifice for your sins. I truly believe that He is about to return. When the Christians are taken out of the way, satan will be free to unleash his hell on earth. (The Great Tribulation). Don't take the mark of the beast or you will automatically go to hell. It's like selling your soul to satan.
Look around you, Bob.
Seems to me that we are already in the midst of it. And, many of your fellows have already chosen the the Beast.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by xfrodobagginsx »

LarsMac wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:09 am
xfrodobagginsx wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:00 am I strongly urge you all to place your faith in Jesus Christ for Salvation, believing in your heart that He died and rose again as a Sacrifice for your sins. I truly believe that He is about to return. When the Christians are taken out of the way, satan will be free to unleash his hell on earth. (The Great Tribulation). Don't take the mark of the beast or you will automatically go to hell. It's like selling your soul to satan.
Look around you, Bob.
Seems to me that we are already in the midst of it. And, many of your fellows have already chosen the the Beast.
I thought you didn't believe the Bible was God's Word? What do you base your beliefs on? Jesus used the Scriptures as authoritative from God and expected us to do the same. I will too. The mark of the beast isn't here yet, but it is close. The Democrats and Socialists want Globalism, which the Bible clearly states that the Anti Christ will run that system and they will worship him. So, do you support Globalism? If not, then you need to reject the agenda of the Democrats.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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xfrodobagginsx wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:33 pm
LarsMac wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:09 am
xfrodobagginsx wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:00 am I strongly urge you all to place your faith in Jesus Christ for Salvation, believing in your heart that He died and rose again as a Sacrifice for your sins. I truly believe that He is about to return. When the Christians are taken out of the way, satan will be free to unleash his hell on earth. (The Great Tribulation). Don't take the mark of the beast or you will automatically go to hell. It's like selling your soul to satan.
Look around you, Bob.
Seems to me that we are already in the midst of it. And, many of your fellows have already chosen the the Beast.
I thought you didn't believe the Bible was God's Word? What do you base your beliefs on? Jesus used the Scriptures as authoritative from God and expected us to do the same. I will too. The mark of the beast isn't here yet, but it is close. The Democrats and Socialists want Globalism, which the Bible clearly states that the Anti Christ will run that system and they will worship him. So, do you support Globalism? If not, then you need to reject the agenda of the Democrats.
Whatever you say, Bob. [Sigh]

You should look around. Your buddy T-Rump has done more to advance the idea of globalism than any Democrat since Woodrow was Pres.
The US Economy is part of the Global Economy, now, and will never extricate itself from that.
Globalization is here, Buddy, and the Democrats had very little to do with it.
But your Republican friends got you all chasing your tails while the big spenders sold your ass out, lock, stock and barrel.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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Dan Cathy, conservative billionaire CEO of fast food chain Chick-fil-A, urged white Christians to take advantage of the “special moment” in American history now, to repent of racism and fight for their black “brothers and sisters” in the wake of ongoing protests over the police killings of Rayshard Brooks and other black Americans like George Floyd.

LINK:Chick-fil-A’s Dan Cathy asks white Christians to repent, fight for black Americans in wake of police killings
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by xfrodobagginsx »

LarsMac wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:57 am Dan Cathy, conservative billionaire CEO of fast food chain Chick-fil-A, urged white Christians to take advantage of the “special moment” in American history now, to repent of racism and fight for their black “brothers and sisters” in the wake of ongoing protests over the police killings of Rayshard Brooks and other black Americans like George Floyd.

LINK:Chick-fil-A’s Dan Cathy asks white Christians to repent, fight for black Americans in wake of police killings
George Floyd was clearly murdered by the Police, but he is the exception not the rule. Rashard Brooks was fighting the police, punching them and trying to get away from them. Then he stole their taser and started firing it at them, so they shot him. Blake was fighting police and had also been tased. He also had a history of pulling guns and was wanted for sexual assault. He ignored police orders and reached into his car and left the Police no choice. Michael Brown attacked the cop and was beating him, tried to grab the cops gun. He began to walk away and then began charging the cop again and was shot and killed. In nearly every case, the black guy was at fault, NOT the cops.

Notice how the Democrat Media completely ignores any story where:

1)A black cop kills a white person.
2)A black cop kills a black person.
3)A white cop kills a white person.

They only care when a white cop kills a black person. They are pushing a false agenda of systematic racism that the cops are executing black men for no reason. That is completely false. Being white has NOTHING to do with anything. I am not sorry for being white and will never repent of it. BLM is a marxist, violent hate group that is pushing Socialism, Racism against whites and Anti American agenda. They also give all donations to the Democrat party. Sam Cathy is dead wrong on this.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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So, explain away Breonna Taylor.
How about Elijah McClain?
And yes, there are incidents of black cops killing black citizens.
Cops too often kill people. And too often, the people that are killed seem to be black.
And many of the people Cops kill are not criminals.
And, oddly enough, too often white criminals are treated with far more respect by Cops than blacks who are not criminals.

The institution of Racism in America must be ended.
Christians have far too long been the champions of Institutional Racism, instead of being the champions of Equality.
Why is that?
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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And, pretty much every time a cop kills a citizen, there has been something reported in the media.
Not all of them, of course are newsworthy to the point of making the national media.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by xfrodobagginsx »

LarsMac wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:38 am

The institution of Racism in America must be ended.
Christians have far too long been the champions of Institutional Racism, instead of being the champions of Equality.
Why is that?
Then we need to end the Democrat Party because THEY are the ones pushing racism. They were the party of slavery, the KKK, Jim Crow & Separate But Equal.

Christian is a pretty generalized statement. True Christians are born again. They have placed their faith in Christ alone for Salvation, believing in their heart that He died and rose again, shedding His blood as a Sacrifice for their sins. It is not Christian to be a racist.

I am not sure why you would think that Christians are the problem with racism. Equality is not giving one race preference over another as the Liberal/Democrat Party does. Equality is not blaming every bad situation on racism if the culprit happens to be white and the victim happens to be black and then ignoring all instances where blacks victimize whites as the Liberal/Democrats do.

I agree with MLK's version of equal rights where a man is judged on the content of his character rather than the color of his skin. It seems that the Democrat Party has moved beyond this goal and is now trying to turn the tables on the white race.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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xfrodobagginsx wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:16 pm Then we need to end the Democrat Party because THEY are the ones pushing racism. They were the party of slavery, the KKK, Jim Crow & Separate But Equal.
Oh, no, Bob. You don't get to play that game.
Democrats of the 19th Century were not the same as the Democrats of today.
The old line Democrats were the bastions of Racism and obstructionism. They long held the people down. But when the Roosevelt administration began making changes, the old liners began to lose their grip. It took years. In the 60s Kennedy and Johnson began tearing down the walls.
The old liners ended up on their own in the South, and began trying to build their own party. It was the Democratic Party that tore down the Racist regimes in Alabama, Texas, and Georgia. The Southern Democrats fell out of favor. But no worry, the Repulicans took them in, starting in the 70s and now those same obstructionists and Racists are the major force of the GOP.
The last Sane Republicans have stepped away, or died off.

xfrodobagginsx wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:16 pm Christian is a pretty generalized statement. True Christians are born again. They have placed their faith in Christ alone for Salvation, believing in their heart that He died and rose again, shedding His blood as a Sacrifice for their sins. It is not Christian to be a racist.

I am not sure why you would think that Christians are the problem with racism. Equality is not giving one race preference over another as the Liberal/Democrat Party does. Equality is not blaming every bad situation on racism if the culprit happens to be white and the victim happens to be black and then ignoring all instances where blacks victimize whites as the Liberal/Democrats do.
I don't think Christians are the problem with Racism. I know many Christians who are on the front lines fighting Racism and prejudice and poverty with their every breath. What I see as the problem are racists, bigots and crooks who are pretending to be Christians. And foolish, well-meaning Christian wannabes following them into the Pit.
xfrodobagginsx wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:16 pm I agree with MLK's version of equal rights where a man is judged on the content of his character rather than the color of his skin. It seems that the Democrat Party has moved beyond this goal and is now trying to turn the tables on the white race.
Right.
Back to the Democratic Party, again. The Democratic Party is not the villain here. They're not Angels, by a long shot, but they are working to make things better in this country.
Meanwhile, the Republican party, which I once belonged to, has become the tribe of imbeciles. Driving everything good out of what was once a great country.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by xfrodobagginsx »

LarsMac wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:12 pm
xfrodobagginsx wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:16 pm Then we need to end the Democrat Party because THEY are the ones pushing racism. They were the party of slavery, the KKK, Jim Crow & Separate But Equal.
Oh, no, Bob. You don't get to play that game.
Democrats of the 19th Century were not the same as the Democrats of today.
The old line Democrats were the bastions of Racism and obstructionism. They long held the people down. But when the Roosevelt administration began making changes, the old liners began to lose their grip. It took years. In the 60s Kennedy and Johnson began tearing down the walls.
The old liners ended up on their own in the South, and began trying to build their own party. It was the Democratic Party that tore down the Racist regimes in Alabama, Texas, and Georgia. The Southern Democrats fell out of favor. But no worry, the Repulicans took them in, starting in the 70s and now those same obstructionists and Racists are the major force of the GOP.
The last Sane Republicans have stepped away, or died off.

xfrodobagginsx wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:16 pm Christian is a pretty generalized statement. True Christians are born again. They have placed their faith in Christ alone for Salvation, believing in their heart that He died and rose again, shedding His blood as a Sacrifice for their sins. It is not Christian to be a racist.

I am not sure why you would think that Christians are the problem with racism. Equality is not giving one race preference over another as the Liberal/Democrat Party does. Equality is not blaming every bad situation on racism if the culprit happens to be white and the victim happens to be black and then ignoring all instances where blacks victimize whites as the Liberal/Democrats do.
I don't think Christians are the problem with Racism. I know many Christians who are on the front lines fighting Racism and prejudice and poverty with their every breath. What I see as the problem are racists, bigots and crooks who are pretending to be Christians. And foolish, well-meaning Christian wannabes following them into the Pit.
xfrodobagginsx wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:16 pm I agree with MLK's version of equal rights where a man is judged on the content of his character rather than the color of his skin. It seems that the Democrat Party has moved beyond this goal and is now trying to turn the tables on the white race.
Right.
Back to the Democratic Party, again. The Democratic Party is not the villain here. They're not Angels, by a long shot, but they are working to make things better in this country.
Meanwhile, the Republican party, which I once belonged to, has become the tribe of imbeciles. Driving everything good out of what was once a great country.
"The Republicans took them in" ...Uh only the ones who realized that the Democrats racism is wrong went to the Republican Party. NIce try. The Republicans were the ones who ended Slavery, Jim Crow, Separate But Equal and Gave Women equal rights. It was the Democrats who voted overwhelmingly against these things. Jim Crow and Separate But Equal didn't end until The 1950s and 1960s. The racists remained in the Democrat Party but decided to go under cover. That's why they still honor Margret Sanger who was an extreme racist. That's why they still oppress the Black Community with their polices that don't work and we see what the Democrat ran cities are like. Now they are trying to turn the tables on the white community instead of judging a man on the content of his character as MLK did, they still focus on race, sex, sexual orientation and skin color.

Racism was nearly dead UNTIL Obama revived it. Worst President in history. Hates America. Hates God. Hates Christians.

The Democrat Party IS the heart of the problem. The Republican Party was infiltrated by RINOS like Bush, Romney, McCain and others who are really Democrats with an R after their name. Trump is bringing America back to it's greatness before these losers came to power. He is restoring America to it's Christian values and Conservative values and at the same time, he is fighting stronger for minorities and poverty than any President ever.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by LarsMac »

xfrodobagginsx wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:55 pm
LarsMac wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:12 pm
xfrodobagginsx wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:16 pm Then we need to end the Democrat Party because THEY are the ones pushing racism. They were the party of slavery, the KKK, Jim Crow & Separate But Equal.
Oh, no, Bob. You don't get to play that game.
Democrats of the 19th Century were not the same as the Democrats of today.
The old line Democrats were the bastions of Racism and obstructionism. They long held the people down. But when the Roosevelt administration began making changes, the old liners began to lose their grip. It took years. In the 60s Kennedy and Johnson began tearing down the walls.
The old liners ended up on their own in the South, and began trying to build their own party. It was the Democratic Party that tore down the Racist regimes in Alabama, Texas, and Georgia. The Southern Democrats fell out of favor. But no worry, the Repulicans took them in, starting in the 70s and now those same obstructionists and Racists are the major force of the GOP.
The last Sane Republicans have stepped away, or died off.

xfrodobagginsx wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:16 pm Christian is a pretty generalized statement. True Christians are born again. They have placed their faith in Christ alone for Salvation, believing in their heart that He died and rose again, shedding His blood as a Sacrifice for their sins. It is not Christian to be a racist.

I am not sure why you would think that Christians are the problem with racism. Equality is not giving one race preference over another as the Liberal/Democrat Party does. Equality is not blaming every bad situation on racism if the culprit happens to be white and the victim happens to be black and then ignoring all instances where blacks victimize whites as the Liberal/Democrats do.
I don't think Christians are the problem with Racism. I know many Christians who are on the front lines fighting Racism and prejudice and poverty with their every breath. What I see as the problem are racists, bigots and crooks who are pretending to be Christians. And foolish, well-meaning Christian wannabes following them into the Pit.
xfrodobagginsx wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:16 pm I agree with MLK's version of equal rights where a man is judged on the content of his character rather than the color of his skin. It seems that the Democrat Party has moved beyond this goal and is now trying to turn the tables on the white race.
Right.
Back to the Democratic Party, again. The Democratic Party is not the villain here. They're not Angels, by a long shot, but they are working to make things better in this country.
Meanwhile, the Republican party, which I once belonged to, has become the tribe of imbeciles. Driving everything good out of what was once a great country.
"The Republicans took them in" ...Uh only the ones who realized that the Democrats racism is wrong went to the Republican Party. NIce try. The Republicans were the ones who ended Slavery, Jim Crow, Separate But Equal and Gave Women equal rights. It was the Democrats who voted overwhelmingly against these things. Jim Crow and Separate But Equal didn't end until The 1950s and 1960s. The racists remained in the Democrat Party but decided to go under cover. That's why they still honor Margret Sanger who was an extreme racist. That's why they still oppress the Black Community with their polices that don't work and we see what the Democrat ran cities are like. Now they are trying to turn the tables on the white community instead of judging a man on the content of his character as MLK did, they still focus on race, sex, sexual orientation and skin color.

Racism was nearly dead UNTIL Obama revived it. Worst President in history. Hates America. Hates God. Hates Christians.

The Democrat Party IS the heart of the problem. The Republican Party was infiltrated by RINOS like Bush, Romney, McCain and others who are really Democrats with an R after their name. Trump is bringing America back to it's greatness before these losers came to power. He is restoring America to it's Christian values and Conservative values and at the same time, he is fighting stronger for minorities and poverty than any President ever.
Sorry Bob. as stated before it was the Southern Democrats, who resisted the Women's suffrage, and Civil Rights. There was a time when the Republican party was the more progressive party.
But it was after the 50s when they began to go astray.
And it was the northern Democrats that helped to move the party away from the Right wing during the 60s and 70s. It was the Northern Democrats that first began to call for an end to the Vietnam War.
It was the Northern Democrats that backed the Freedom Riders.
By the 80s, the Republicans had moved far to the Right. They welcomed the southern Dems by the boat load. The Religious Right backed Reagan and Republicans.
They have turned the GOP into the party of ignorance and bigotry.

You have been taken in, hook, line, and sinker.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by spot »

xfrodobagginsx wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:55 pm Racism was nearly dead UNTIL Obama revived it. Worst President in history. Hates America. Hates God. Hates Christians.
Out of interest, are you prepared to accept that many people would regard that as entirely false? That is, five statements all untrue?

Do you think what you wrote is a majority view?

You've made the five statements as factual unqualified observations, I'm just wondering where your sense of absolute certainty comes from and whether you think what you announced there it's generally known. I think my question is centrally relevant to the thread because you claim the same degree of certainty about your other hobby, evangelism.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by xfrodobagginsx »

spot wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:11 am
xfrodobagginsx wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:55 pm Racism was nearly dead UNTIL Obama revived it. Worst President in history. Hates America. Hates God. Hates Christians.
Out of interest, are you prepared to accept that many people would regard that as entirely false? That is, five statements all untrue?

Do you think what you wrote is a majority view?

You've made the five statements as factual unqualified observations, I'm just wondering where your sense of absolute certainty comes from and whether you think what you announced there it's generally known. I think my question is centrally relevant to the thread because you claim the same degree of certainty about your other hobby, evangelism.
I would say that Liberals would regard this as entirely false and Conservatives would regard it as entirely true. I can't see how anyone could disagree with anything that I have said because the evidence is overwhelming.

Yes I think that I have written a majority view. The proof is in the fact that Trump is President and not Hillary. Even after the Democrats cheated on the election and then blamed Trump for it.

How are they unqualified statements? Respectfully, they are as blatantly obvious as the nose on your face. I believe that the things that I have stated are known to Conservatives, but Liberals generally do not know these things because they are being repeatedly brainwashed by the Left Wing Media. The hypocrisy in the left wing leadership is deafening.

I have reasons that I can give. Would you like evidence? The reason that I ask is because most people on the left aren't interested in evidence. They have made up their mind and no amount of evidence will change their mind. I don't think you are like that. I think you are pretty level headed in that way, even though we will probably disagree on most of these things. At least I can picture you and admittedly even Lars, at least looking at the evidence. I don't see how you can believe the stuff that these left wing sources are presenting you day after day. Let me know if you want my evidence, but if I give it, I would like you to give your evidence as to why you agree or disagree. Fair?
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by spot »

I've spent all my time on this site saying I abhor opinion or belief, and that evidence is the only test of whether any statement is true or not. You claimed five statements of fact. If you have evidence for each of them then I'd be delighted to discuss your details.

"Unqualified", in the context of a factual statement, doesn't mean you have no academic qualification to bolster your credibility. It's not a personal insult. It's an observation about your grammar. It simply notes that all five of your statements of fact are absolute, they have no "might" or "sometimes" or "mostly" attached. "Colin Powell claims he has credible secret intelligence that ... " would be a qualification. Unqualified means "Not modified or moderated; not subject to qualification or reservation; unmitigated; (hence) absolute, thoroughgoing".

I'll offer you another quote from the same dictionary, since I regard it as appropriate to your position throughout this thread on every topic you've introduced to it: "Christian XVI. is a king of intransigent principles, a king with a faith in his providential mission; zealous, rigid, narrow."

Here we are, your five intransigent assertions listed:
  1. Racism was nearly dead UNTIL Obama revived it.
  2. Worst President in history.
  3. Hates America.
  4. Hates God.
  5. Hates Christians.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by xfrodobagginsx »

spot wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:53 am I've spent all my time on this site saying I abhor opinion or belief, and that evidence is the only test of whether any statement is true or not. You claimed five statements of fact. If you have evidence for each of them then I'd be delighted to discuss your details.

"Unqualified", in the context of a factual statement, doesn't mean you have no academic qualification to bolster your credibility. It's not a personal insult. It's an observation about your grammar. It simply notes that all five of your statements of fact are absolute, they have no "might" or "sometimes" or "mostly" attached. "Colin Powell claims he has credible secret intelligence that ... " would be a qualification. Unqualified means "Not modified or moderated; not subject to qualification or reservation; unmitigated; (hence) absolute, thoroughgoing".

I'll offer you another quote from the same dictionary, since I regard it as appropriate to your position throughout this thread on every topic you've introduced to it: "Christian XVI. is a king of intransigent principles, a king with a faith in his providential mission; zealous, rigid, narrow."

Here we are, your five intransigent assertions listed:
  1. Racism was nearly dead UNTIL Obama revived it.
  2. Worst President in history.
  3. Hates America.
  4. Hates God.
  5. Hates Christians.
We learned about fact and opinion in grade school. It is assumed that everyone knows the difference. These statements are also NOT meant to be insulting to you, but merely to point this out. I made no factual statement in any of the 5 you listed, although I do believe that the facts support them. Those are 5 opinion statements of mine and I am absolutely convinced that they are all true because of the evidence.

In order to prove those opinions true, I would need to spend a great deal of time listing evidence after evidence. I follow Politics daily and I know these things to be true. Obama's Policies PROVE his true heart, just as Trump's Policies prove his true heart. So what I would be listing for you would be Obama's Policies and Executive Orders to prove these statements true. The list of Policies and Executive orders would be factual and irrefutable if accurately stated. With that said, in the end, you would still be free to disagree with my opinion on these 5 statements in spite of the mountain of evidence that I would list because they are, after all, merely opinion statements.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by spot »

xfrodobagginsx wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:41 pm How are they unqualified statements? Respectfully, they are as blatantly obvious as the nose on your face.

[...] We learned about fact and opinion in grade school. It is assumed that everyone knows the difference.
Clearly not very well. The opposites "blatantly obvious" and "obscure" bear no relation to the opposites "qualified" and "unqualified". A statement can be "blatantly obvious and qualified" or "blatantly obvious and unqualified", or it could be "obscure and qualified" or "obscure and unqualified". Neither "obvious" nor "unqualified" precludes the other. That's why I felt the need to clarify what qualified actually means, because it does not mean obvious.

"People are men" is false, for example. "Some people are men" is blatantly obviously true but it's also qualified. It's only true because the original false unqualified statement has been discarded and a qualification has been introduced. Your "five statements as factual unqualified observations" are untrue for the same reason, that they have no qualification.


xfrodobagginsx wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:41 pm I have reasons that I can give. Would you like evidence?

[...] In order to prove those opinions true, I would need to spend a great deal of time listing evidence after evidence.
I think the word "backtracking" is in order here.

Your problem is that you clearly make statements at an extreme edge of what is possible, both about politics and about religion, and you have absolutely no factual basis for doing either. Your positions are invariably dependent on your belief. Why you think it's worth making statements from that perspective beats me, they're scarcely worth the effort. To make a statement which is irrefutably evidence based, where you can produce your evidence on request, would be so much more fruitful.

I do not know of any evidence which supports your five statements. You, apparently, do. If you can provide, say, one simple evidence-based checkable fact for each statement, we have a basis for discussion and if you do in fact find one for each I'll immediately grovel and agree you were right all along. They only need to be one sentence each, it can't be much work for you. At the moment we have none because you know a secret which I don't have access to, yet you claim it's evidence-based checkable fact. On a par with the existence of of an all-powerful eternal self-aware God, don't you think?


xfrodobagginsx wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:41 pm I am absolutely convinced that they are all true because of the evidence.

[...] in spite of the mountain of evidence that I would list because they are, after all, merely opinion statements.
The whole point of briefly cited evidence is that it's checkable discussable fact and not, after all, merely opinion statements. That's why it's evidence in support of your opinion. So show me a proof for each of your claimed facts, something I can test instead of merely believe on your say-so. One sentence each at least, enough to find your sources. It's only with concrete instances of real-world events that we can tease out which of us has foolishly built his house upon the sand. You "can't see how anyone could disagree with anything that I have said because the evidence is overwhelming". Surely you can lay down your hand and claim the pot here, if it's that strong. Five simple sentences citing real-world actions of Barrack Obama, each in turn demonstrating the truth of one claim. I already know what you believe, I want you to tell me the evidential basis for your belief.

And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. Demonstrate that the house is mine and not yours.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by xfrodobagginsx »

My statements are truly my opinon and they are based on overwhelming evidence. You are free to disagree with my opinion, but you can't disagree with the facts that back up my opinion.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by spot »

xfrodobagginsx wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:13 pm My statements are truly my opinon and they are based on overwhelming evidence. You are free to disagree with my opinion, but you can't disagree with the facts that back up my opinion.
I would happily discuss your facts if you would state them, and I would happily agree with them if they are facts. The trouble is you only ever state your opinion, so I know nothing about your facts, because you keep them secret. Name me a fact, any fact. Let's start there and work up.

As an aid let me quote Zelazny answering "whether it be supernatural or no", it may help:
It is the difference between the unknown and the unknowable, between science and fantasy - it is a matter of essence. The four points of the compass be logic, knowledge, wisdom and the unknown. Some do bow in that final direction. Others advance upon it. To bow before the one is to lose sight of the three. I may submit to the unknown, but never to the unknowable.”
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by FourPart »

xfrodobagginsx wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:13 pm My statements are truly my opinon and they are based on overwhelming evidence. You are free to disagree with my opinion, but you can't disagree with the facts that back up my opinion.
You say it is based on evidence. So, where is this 'evidence'? Evidence has to be demonstrable.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by spot »

Perhaps Frodo hasn't grasped yet what it feels like to watch him post. I'll provide an analogy. It's as if we're playing poker, and we get to the end of the bids and all the players bar him put their hands on the table to see who won. Frodo then announces that his beats them all and claims the pot, but refuses to let anyone else see what he's holding. Because in good faith he believes that what he's holding beats what we've shown, he sees no reason to let us see his cards.

Perhaps Frodo will say this analogy is not a fair description of what he's done throughout the last 3,646 posts in this thread. I do hope he says it, because we can then ask him to go back to any one of his posts and show where the analogy fails to represent his behavior. Just one single post where you've produced a fact instead of an opinion, Frodo. I don't doubt you've done it, I'm quite sure you've done it, I just want you to choose one instance where you did it so we can progress to discussing the difference between fact and opinion with an example you're responsible for and stand by.

We could actually generate a conversation if you join in, Frodo. That would be a breakthrough.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by xfrodobagginsx »

spot wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:42 am Perhaps Frodo hasn't grasped yet what it feels like to watch him post. I'll provide an analogy. It's as if we're playing poker, and we get to the end of the bids and all the players bar him put their hands on the table to see who won. Frodo then announces that his beats them all and claims the pot, but refuses to let anyone else see what he's holding. Because in good faith he believes that what he's holding beats what we've shown, he sees no reason to let us see his cards.

Perhaps Frodo will say this analogy is not a fair description of what he's done throughout the last 3,646 posts in this thread. I do hope he says it, because we can then ask him to go back to any one of his posts and show where the analogy fails to represent his behavior. Just one single post where you've produced a fact instead of an opinion, Frodo. I don't doubt you've done it, I'm quite sure you've done it, I just want you to choose one instance where you did it so we can progress to discussing the difference between fact and opinion with an example you're responsible for and stand by.

We could actually generate a conversation if you join in, Frodo. That would be a breakthrough.
I am sorry it took so long to respond. Sadly, since this site doesn't get anywhere near the traffic that it used to I am free to spend more of my time on other sites. Hopefully it will change back to the way it was. Here is your 1 factual thing that I have recently posted.
U.S. Coronavirus Hospitalizations Lower than Predicted: NY Marks 75% Drop
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020 ... 2M9-tPpdVU

While I admit that much of what I post on here is opinion, I have clearly stated that. But they are backed up by factual information. Obama proved over and over what I stated in the above post.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by FourPart »

xfrodobagginsx wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:08 pm
spot wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:42 am Perhaps Frodo hasn't grasped yet what it feels like to watch him post. I'll provide an analogy. It's as if we're playing poker, and we get to the end of the bids and all the players bar him put their hands on the table to see who won. Frodo then announces that his beats them all and claims the pot, but refuses to let anyone else see what he's holding. Because in good faith he believes that what he's holding beats what we've shown, he sees no reason to let us see his cards.

Perhaps Frodo will say this analogy is not a fair description of what he's done throughout the last 3,646 posts in this thread. I do hope he says it, because we can then ask him to go back to any one of his posts and show where the analogy fails to represent his behavior. Just one single post where you've produced a fact instead of an opinion, Frodo. I don't doubt you've done it, I'm quite sure you've done it, I just want you to choose one instance where you did it so we can progress to discussing the difference between fact and opinion with an example you're responsible for and stand by.

We could actually generate a conversation if you join in, Frodo. That would be a breakthrough.
I am sorry it took so long to respond. Sadly, since this site doesn't get anywhere near the traffic that it used to I am free to spend more of my time on other sites. Hopefully it will change back to the way it was. Here is your 1 factual thing that I have recently posted.
U.S. Coronavirus Hospitalizations Lower than Predicted: NY Marks 75% Drop
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020 ... 2M9-tPpdVU

While I admit that much of what I post on here is opinion, I have clearly stated that. But they are backed up by factual information. Obama proved over and over what I stated in the above post.
First of all, that report is from April.
Secondly, in America, the number of Hospitalisations doesn't really mean much, seeing as those who can't afford Health Insurance don't get to go to hospital in the first place.
Meanwhile, the fatality figures in the US continues to increase day by day.
Finally, what does that out of date flawed 'fact' have anything to do with your supposed evidence for the existence of a God?
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by xfrodobagginsx »

FourPart wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:12 am
xfrodobagginsx wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:08 pm
spot wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:42 am Perhaps Frodo hasn't grasped yet what it feels like to watch him post. I'll provide an analogy. It's as if we're playing poker, and we get to the end of the bids and all the players bar him put their hands on the table to see who won. Frodo then announces that his beats them all and claims the pot, but refuses to let anyone else see what he's holding. Because in good faith he believes that what he's holding beats what we've shown, he sees no reason to let us see his cards.

Perhaps Frodo will say this analogy is not a fair description of what he's done throughout the last 3,646 posts in this thread. I do hope he says it, because we can then ask him to go back to any one of his posts and show where the analogy fails to represent his behavior. Just one single post where you've produced a fact instead of an opinion, Frodo. I don't doubt you've done it, I'm quite sure you've done it, I just want you to choose one instance where you did it so we can progress to discussing the difference between fact and opinion with an example you're responsible for and stand by.

We could actually generate a conversation if you join in, Frodo. That would be a breakthrough.
I am sorry it took so long to respond. Sadly, since this site doesn't get anywhere near the traffic that it used to I am free to spend more of my time on other sites. Hopefully it will change back to the way it was. Here is your 1 factual thing that I have recently posted.
U.S. Coronavirus Hospitalizations Lower than Predicted: NY Marks 75% Drop
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020 ... 2M9-tPpdVU

While I admit that much of what I post on here is opinion, I have clearly stated that. But they are backed up by factual information. Obama proved over and over what I stated in the above post.
First of all, that report is from April.
Secondly, in America, the number of Hospitalisations doesn't really mean much, seeing as those who can't afford Health Insurance don't get to go to hospital in the first place.
Meanwhile, the fatality figures in the US continues to increase day by day.
Finally, what does that out of date flawed 'fact' have anything to do with your supposed evidence for the existence of a God?
Those who can't afford Health Insurance cannot be refused medical care. The ER MUST take them so that's not true. The fatality figures are steadily going down as this virus is no more deadly than the flu or a cold or a fender bender after all. I said that in the beginning and all of the crazies went nuts. I don't remember because the conversation was from a long time ago and I am spending more time at other sites now that have a much higher traffic flow. This site had a good thing going and I would have NEVER switched over to this. I would be trying to figure out how to go back if I were the owner.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by LarsMac »

xfrodobagginsx wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:37 pm

Those who can't afford Health Insurance cannot be refused medical care. The ER MUST take them so that's not true. The fatality figures are steadily going down as this virus is no more deadly than the flu or a cold or a fender bender after all. I said that in the beginning and all of the crazies went nuts. I don't remember because the conversation was from a long time ago and I am spending more time at other sites now that have a much higher traffic flow. This site had a good thing going and I would have NEVER switched over to this. I would be trying to figure out how to go back if I were the owner.
Again, you show you ignorance, Bob.
There are many Hospitals who are not required to take in uninsured patients. They post the fact in plain view at the entrances, including at the ER entrance.
If someone is infected, and expressing symptoms, They can be rejected and referred to another facility.
ERs are only tasked with stabilizing a patient who is in an immediate (Emergent) life-threatening condition.
And you completely ignore the fact that many people can be infected by COVID-19, and express no symptoms, but are still infectious, and can infect other people who may have conditions that compromise their immune system, making them far more likely to die from this bug.
I find your lack of compassion and empathy very disturbing - Particularly from one who claims to be Christian.
Perhaps you should go back to those other sites where the traffic flow pleases you so much.

Oh, by the way, 20% of infected cases. develop breathing difficulties, and require hospitalization.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... population.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by xfrodobagginsx »

LarsMac wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:21 am
xfrodobagginsx wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:37 pm

Those who can't afford Health Insurance cannot be refused medical care. The ER MUST take them so that's not true. The fatality figures are steadily going down as this virus is no more deadly than the flu or a cold or a fender bender after all. I said that in the beginning and all of the crazies went nuts. I don't remember because the conversation was from a long time ago and I am spending more time at other sites now that have a much higher traffic flow. This site had a good thing going and I would have NEVER switched over to this. I would be trying to figure out how to go back if I were the owner.
Again, you show you ignorance, Bob.
There are many Hospitals who are not required to take in uninsured patients. They post the fact in plain view at the entrances, including at the ER entrance.
If someone is infected, and expressing symptoms, They can be rejected and referred to another facility.
ERs are only tasked with stabilizing a patient who is in an immediate (Emergent) life-threatening condition.
And you completely ignore the fact that many people can be infected by COVID-19, and express no symptoms, but are still infectious, and can infect other people who may have conditions that compromise their immune system, making them far more likely to die from this bug.
I find your lack of compassion and empathy very disturbing - Particularly from one who claims to be Christian.
Perhaps you should go back to those other sites where the traffic flow pleases you so much.

Oh, by the way, 20% of infected cases. develop breathing difficulties, and require hospitalization.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... population.
The Death rate is lower than that of the flu, but I don't see the world locking down and masking up over the flu. So are you being insensitive or just not letting it run your life?
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by LarsMac »

xfrodobagginsx wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:42 pm
LarsMac wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:21 am
xfrodobagginsx wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:37 pm

Those who can't afford Health Insurance cannot be refused medical care. The ER MUST take them so that's not true. The fatality figures are steadily going down as this virus is no more deadly than the flu or a cold or a fender bender after all. I said that in the beginning and all of the crazies went nuts. I don't remember because the conversation was from a long time ago and I am spending more time at other sites now that have a much higher traffic flow. This site had a good thing going and I would have NEVER switched over to this. I would be trying to figure out how to go back if I were the owner.
Again, you show you ignorance, Bob.
There are many Hospitals who are not required to take in uninsured patients. They post the fact in plain view at the entrances, including at the ER entrance.
If someone is infected, and expressing symptoms, They can be rejected and referred to another facility.
ERs are only tasked with stabilizing a patient who is in an immediate (Emergent) life-threatening condition.
And you completely ignore the fact that many people can be infected by COVID-19, and express no symptoms, but are still infectious, and can infect other people who may have conditions that compromise their immune system, making them far more likely to die from this bug.
I find your lack of compassion and empathy very disturbing - Particularly from one who claims to be Christian.
Perhaps you should go back to those other sites where the traffic flow pleases you so much.

Oh, by the way, 20% of infected cases. develop breathing difficulties, and require hospitalization.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... population.
The Death rate is lower than that of the flu, but I don't see the world locking down and masking up over the flu. So are you being insensitive or just not letting it run your life?
Um given that the Flu season ended just as COVID-19 was making its debut, I am pretty certain that you are making this claim purely on hearsay. That is a popular line among the deniers. But Flu Season is coming again, so we will have an opportunity to test that hypothesis through this winter season.

Actually, I and many of my family have long been taking precautions to avoid getting the Flu. We have a number of family members who have compromised immune systems, and we try not to kill them off.

Oh, by the way, Bob, you do know that for the last decade, the CDC and the WHO have been recommending almost the same precautions against the Flu that they now recommend to protect yourself from COVID-19. Right? Well, that, AND getting a Flu Vaccination.

I suspect that this year, when people are actively protecting themselves from COVID, we may see far fewer FLU cases than most previous years.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by FourPart »

I don't see that the Flu has killed almost quarter of a million people so far this year. Anyone who believes that is the case is gullible enough to believe Trump's lie. Mind you, anyone who is gullible enough to believe his lies is also likely to be gullible enough to be a Christian, so that much is hardly surprising.

Last night I received news that my Stepmother had just passed away sa "Covid Related". She had actually been tested as Covid Negative, but some weeks ago she did get it & recovered. However, she had many underlying issues. For a start she was in her 80s. She had advanced Parkinsons. She had suffered several heart attacks. She had Type 1 Diabetes, and she had been bedbound since breaking her hip last year. Obviously her death was inevitable, and likely to have been before the end of the year, but Covid probably accelerated it. However, I object to her having been listed as Covid Related as her Cause of Death.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by xfrodobagginsx »

CHANCES OF SURVIVING COVID19 BY AGE AND SEX WITH NO UNDERLYING HEALTH CONDITIONS

AGE FEMALE MALE
0-9 99.99996 99.99996
10-19 99.99996 99.99996
20-29 99.9998 99.9997
30-39 99.9991 99.9986
40-49 99.998 99.9965
60-69 99.9562 99.8895
70-79 99.8251 99.5245
80+ 98.9087 96.3318

The chances of dying of a cold or flu are statistically higher than that of COVID19.


These numbers only are including the known cases which have tested positive for COVID19. When you include the mass numbers who had COVID19 and were not tested, these numbers dramatically would go down even further. CONCLUSION: The Democrat Party and their Media are using COVID19 for Political Purposes.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by LarsMac »

xfrodobagginsx wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:49 pm CHANCES OF SURVIVING COVID19 BY AGE AND SEX WITH NO UNDERLYING HEALTH CONDITIONS

AGE FEMALE MALE
0-9 99.99996 99.99996
10-19 99.99996 99.99996
20-29 99.9998 99.9997
30-39 99.9991 99.9986
40-49 99.998 99.9965
60-69 99.9562 99.8895
70-79 99.8251 99.5245
80+ 98.9087 96.3318

The chances of dying of a cold or flu are statistically higher than that of COVID19.


These numbers only are including the known cases which have tested positive for COVID19. When you include the mass numbers who had COVID19 and were not tested, these numbers dramatically would go down even further. CONCLUSION: The Democrat Party and their Media are using COVID19 for Political Purposes.
Well, Bob, you've now done it.
You have abandoned any credibility as an evangelist, and proven yourself to be little more than a shill for the Trumpian Beast.
Congratulations.
You must be so proud.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by spot »

What the composer of the table title has done, which is illegitimate and deliberate filthy lying and intentional misleading propaganda, is to say that the pool of people who have so far had the disease is the entire 100% of the population of the US, instead of the actual proportion which is (let's say) between 10% and 20%. I'm being very generous with that 20%, I don't think it can be that high, but it is a reasonable best-case.

I think, if you put the words "so far in America" into the table title, and remove the unquantifiable "no underlying conditions", then the table can perhaps be interpreted, but that's not what the chap claimed.

When you instead use his observation that "These numbers only are including the known cases which have tested positive for COVID19" his survival percentages immediately inflate by a factor of 30. That puts his percentages out by a final factor between 150 and 300. Par for the course for Frodo. I don't think he's numerically illiterate, I think he's a conscious liar who knows he lies.

For the table to go back to reality, there's two smudges to make.

Firstly, he's left out the 50-59 age group entirely. I've put that in, copying his 40-49 percentages as an extrapolation because it's bound to be close.

Secondly, his male 80+ percentage is 96% and that's clearly wrong. I've changed the 6 to an 8 as a typo.

Multiplying the whole table out by the 2019 demographics for the US gives a death count of 235,767 which is about bang on for last month. That doesn't mean I think his implied number of deaths in each age group is correct, I don't think they are and I think we could check if anyone would like to see them, but that final total suggests my interpretation is right.

If you adjust his survival percentages down to reflect the fact that only those who have so far caught it and lived have survived it, that would be okay. But the number who have so far caught it is disputed. It's clearly larger than the number of positive cases because lots have had it and not been tested, most of those being asymptomatic. On the other hand, if everyone had caught it by now and the number of people getting worse infected a second time is at most under a hundred in the US, then you'd not have 2,000 Americans dying of Trump's Disease every day at the moment.

So. Frodo's table is lying jiggery-pokery and I'm not even slightly surprised. It's what the gentleman habitually does with facts whether it's about Christianity or politics. Caveat emptor, as they say. Let the buyer beware.

To adjust his table percents to an approximation of reality (10% infection to date) move the decimal point one place to the right and remove the leading 9. It's still misleading though, because older people have been self-isolating far more than younger people, so the proportion of people infected so far goes down for older age groups, and that correspondingly reduces that age group's survivability.

And, of course, if Frodo were to have said "I've jiggered the survivability of every age group up by a factor of ten because only one person in ten dying of Trump has no underlying health condition" the table would have made more sense, but I'd have immediately asked to see a respectable peer-reviewed citation to that effect because I don't think it's true, and I'd criticize him just as much for not saying he'd done it. I also note that his comparison with flu makes no such adjustment to the flu cases.

Frodo, your country already has a quarter of a million people avoidably dead of this sickness and you're trying to turn that into some sort of political win. What sort of mindset behaves that way? By the time they finish counting next Christmas it will be a million and you'll be blaming it on the Democrats.

I attach my figures.
Attachments
frodo table.xls
(13.5 KiB) Downloaded 21 times
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by xfrodobagginsx »

LarsMac wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:46 pm
xfrodobagginsx wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:49 pm CHANCES OF SURVIVING COVID19 BY AGE AND SEX WITH NO UNDERLYING HEALTH CONDITIONS

AGE FEMALE MALE
0-9 99.99996 99.99996
10-19 99.99996 99.99996
20-29 99.9998 99.9997
30-39 99.9991 99.9986
40-49 99.998 99.9965
60-69 99.9562 99.8895
70-79 99.8251 99.5245
80+ 98.9087 96.3318

The chances of dying of a cold or flu are statistically higher than that of COVID19.


These numbers only are including the known cases which have tested positive for COVID19. When you include the mass numbers who had COVID19 and were not tested, these numbers dramatically would go down even further. CONCLUSION: The Democrat Party and their Media are using COVID19 for Political Purposes.
Well, Bob, you've now done it.
You have abandoned any credibility as an evangelist, and proven yourself to be little more than a shill for the Trumpian Beast.
Congratulations.
You must be so proud.
I have posted factual information from the CDC and you are offended by those facts. I need say no more.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by xfrodobagginsx »

spot wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:15 am What the composer of the table title has done, which is illegitimate and deliberate filthy lying and intentional misleading propaganda, is to say that the pool of people who have so far had the disease is the entire 100% of the population of the US, instead of the actual proportion which is (let's say) between 10% and 20%. I'm being very generous with that 20%, I don't think it can be that high, but it is a reasonable best-case.

I think, if you put the words "so far in America" into the table title, and remove the unquantifiable "no underlying conditions", then the table can perhaps be interpreted, but that's not what the chap claimed.

When you instead use his observation that "These numbers only are including the known cases which have tested positive for COVID19" his survival percentages immediately inflate by a factor of 30. That puts his percentages out by a final factor between 150 and 300. Par for the course for Frodo. I don't think he's numerically illiterate, I think he's a conscious liar who knows he lies.

For the table to go back to reality, there's two smudges to make.

Firstly, he's left out the 50-59 age group entirely. I've put that in, copying his 40-49 percentages as an extrapolation because it's bound to be close.

Secondly, his male 80+ percentage is 96% and that's clearly wrong. I've changed the 6 to an 8 as a typo.

Multiplying the whole table out by the 2019 demographics for the US gives a death count of 235,767 which is about bang on for last month. That doesn't mean I think his implied number of deaths in each age group is correct, I don't think they are and I think we could check if anyone would like to see them, but that final total suggests my interpretation is right.

If you adjust his survival percentages down to reflect the fact that only those who have so far caught it and lived have survived it, that would be okay. But the number who have so far caught it is disputed. It's clearly larger than the number of positive cases because lots have had it and not been tested, most of those being asymptomatic. On the other hand, if everyone had caught it by now and the number of people getting worse infected a second time is at most under a hundred in the US, then you'd not have 2,000 Americans dying of Trump's Disease every day at the moment.

So. Frodo's table is lying jiggery-pokery and I'm not even slightly surprised. It's what the gentleman habitually does with facts whether it's about Christianity or politics. Caveat emptor, as they say. Let the buyer beware.

To adjust his table percents to an approximation of reality (10% infection to date) move the decimal point one place to the right and remove the leading 9. It's still misleading though, because older people have been self-isolating far more than younger people, so the proportion of people infected so far goes down for older age groups, and that correspondingly reduces that age group's survivability.

And, of course, if Frodo were to have said "I've jiggered the survivability of every age group up by a factor of ten because only one person in ten dying of Trump has no underlying health condition" the table would have made more sense, but I'd have immediately asked to see a respectable peer-reviewed citation to that effect because I don't think it's true, and I'd criticize him just as much for not saying he'd done it. I also note that his comparison with flu makes no such adjustment to the flu cases.

Frodo, your country already has a quarter of a million people avoidably dead of this sickness and you're trying to turn that into some sort of political win. What sort of mindset behaves that way? By the time they finish counting next Christmas it will be a million and you'll be blaming it on the Democrats.

I attach my figures.
You are forgetting a couple of things.

#1 These are CDC numbers and I am SURE that you would trust them, yet you are offended by the factual numbers.
#2 For every person who has been recorded having COVID19, there are 50x as many who had it and were not recorded, which means that the death rate is actually much LOWER than these numbers suggest.
#3 Even the numbers in the table are higher than they should be because according to the CDC, 96% of all COVID19 cases also had an average of 2.6 OTHER conditions that equally could have killed them as well, yet whenever a person dies of ANYTHING but COVID19 is detected in their body, it is listed as a COVID19 death.

The science is not on the side of the left. They are using COVID19 for Political purposes. They need to trust the Science instead of their Political agenda.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by spot »

xfrodobagginsx wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:03 pm
You are forgetting a couple of things.

#1 These are CDC numbers and I am SURE that you would trust them, yet you are offended by the factual numbers.
I'm delighted you're finally willing to acknowledge a source. I'd be far more interested if you show us the web page so we can see what CDC actually said the numbers relate to.

Your problem, if you actually read what I wrote, is that you wilfully and deliberately misinterpreted the figures. I did say the numbers were accurate. I also said your interpretation of the numbers was bogus rubbish.
#2 For every person who has been recorded having COVID19, there are 50x as many who had it and were not recorded, which means that the death rate is actually much LOWER than these numbers suggest.
#3 Even the numbers in the table are higher than they should be because according to the CDC, 96% of all COVID19 cases also had an average of 2.6 OTHER conditions that equally could have killed them as well, yet whenever a person dies of ANYTHING but COVID19 is detected in their body, it is listed as a COVID19 death.
May we read the CDC page for ourselves please? Because I don't in the slightest believe your claim here. If it's a true statement you should be delighted to reference it, surely. Why you think we'd trust your statement as opposed to the original page I have no idea.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by LarsMac »

xfrodobagginsx wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:03 pm
You are forgetting a couple of things.

#1 These are CDC numbers and I am SURE that you would trust them, yet you are offended by the factual numbers.
#2 For every person who has been recorded having COVID19, there are 50x as many who had it and were not recorded, which means that the death rate is actually much LOWER than these numbers suggest.
#3 Even the numbers in the table are higher than they should be because according to the CDC, 96% of all COVID19 cases also had an average of 2.6 OTHER conditions that equally could have killed them as well, yet whenever a person dies of ANYTHING but COVID19 is detected in their body, it is listed as a COVID19 death.

The science is not on the side of the left. They are using COVID19 for Political purposes. They need to trust the Science instead of their Political agenda.
Please show us the CDC page from where you claim to ave gotten those numbers.
Of course even if true, how many people in your circle actually have no underlying health concerns?

And something more useful to the discussion:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... table.html
https://www.cgdev.org/sites/default/fil ... pacity.pdf
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracke ... klast7days
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by spot »

xfrodobagginsx wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:03 pmYou are forgetting a couple of things.

#1 These are CDC numbers and I am SURE that you would trust them, yet you are offended by the factual numbers.
#2 For every person who has been recorded having COVID19, there are 50x as many who had it and were not recorded, which means that the death rate is actually much LOWER than these numbers suggest.
#3 Even the numbers in the table are higher than they should be because according to the CDC, 96% of all COVID19 cases also had an average of 2.6 OTHER conditions that equally could have killed them as well, yet whenever a person dies of ANYTHING but COVID19 is detected in their body, it is listed as a COVID19 death.

The science is not on the side of the left. They are using COVID19 for Political purposes. They need to trust the Science instead of their Political agenda.
You're a poor quoter of sources simply because you make things up, did you know that?

It has taken me a half hour but I've now found and red the actual source. It has nothing to do with the CDC at all, it's a BMJ article. It's a comparison between developed and undeveloped country reporting from 9th September 2020. The table has been copied, inverted and with calculator inaccuracies, into several paranormal conspiracy threads across the Internet and it has nothing to do with America. The source is indexed but not quoted on two US government (.gov) websites, Pubmed and the U.S. National Library of Medicine. Not the CDC. The CDC quotes nothing from it at all as far as I've found. You have seen it quoted on the CDC website and can easily show me where I missed it. Or, of course, not.
Ghisolfi S, Almås I,
Sandefur JC, et al. Predicted
COVID-19 fatality rates based
on age, sex, comorbidities
and health system capacity.
BMJ Global Health
2020;5:e003094. doi:10.1136/
bmjgh-2020-003094

ABSTRACT
Early reports suggest the fatality rate from COVID-19 varies
greatly across countries, but non-­random testing and
incomplete vital registration systems render it impossible
to directly estimate the infection fatality rate (IFR) in
many low- and middle-­income countries. To fill this gap,
we estimate the adjustments required to extrapolate
estimates of the IFR from high-­income to lower-­income
regions. Accounting for differences in the distribution of
age, sex and relevant comorbidities yields substantial
differences in the predicted IFR across 21 world regions,
ranging from 0.11% in Western Sub-­Saharan Africa to
1.07% for high-­income Asia Pacific. However, these
predictions must be treated as lower bounds in low- and
middle-­income countries as they are grounded in fatality
rates from countries with advanced health systems. To
adjust for health system capacity, we incorporate regional
differences in the relative odds of infection fatality from
childhood respiratory syncytial virus. This adjustment
greatly diminishes but does not entirely erase the
demography-­based advantage predicted in the lowest
income settings, with regional estimates of the predicted
COVID-19 IFR ranging from 0.37% in Western Sub-­Saharan
Africa to 1.45% for Eastern Europe.
So,

"These are CDC numbers and I am SURE that you would trust them" - no they're not.

"#2 For every person who has been recorded having COVID19, there are 50x as many who had it and were not recorded" - Claptrap. Rubbish. Show me a reasonable source for that lunacy. In the UK, for instance, we have good grounds based on mass background testing to think that figure is between 1.5 and, at most, 3. The idea America's figure is 50 is beyond belief.

"whenever a person dies of ANYTHING but COVID19 is detected in their body, it is listed as a COVID19 death" - you're mistaking cause and effect. Practically no corpses are tested for the virus, it's far too dangerous to be routine. When a person has had a positive test for the virus and subsequently dies then it is listed as a COVID19 death. That's an entirely different thing, based on the two events coinciding. If you were in fact to test the newly-dead for the virus then you'd obviously get a far higher proportion than the rate reported - fifty times higher, according to your previous bogus conspiracist claim.

Given how dubious your "this is a CDC figure" claims are, would you please show me where they published "according to the CDC, 96% of all COVID19 cases also had an average of 2.6 OTHER conditions that equally could have killed them as well"? I mistrust what you say, because you're so very clearly untrustworthy. I'm especially interested in your claimed word "equally", just as much as your "2.6".

You may, of course, tell me that you believe what you write to be true, but that cuts very little ice given your track-record on belief. You've demonstrated an astonishing capacity for self-delusion while posting here.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by FourPart »

The caveat is in the first line - "With No Underlying Health Conditions". Add in the Underlying Health Conditions & where do your figures stand then?

It's pretty much the same argument for AIDS. Hardly anyone ever died of AIDS. They died of other underlying issues to which AIDS had affected their defences.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by xfrodobagginsx »

FourPart wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:23 am The caveat is in the first line - "With No Underlying Health Conditions". Add in the Underlying Health Conditions & where do your figures stand then?

It's pretty much the same argument for AIDS. Hardly anyone ever died of AIDS. They died of other underlying issues to which AIDS had affected their defences.
COVID is nothing like AIDS. 96% of the deaths have an average of 2.6 underlying health conditions that also could have killed them on their own without COVID, yet COVID is blamed by Political purposes. With AIDS, a small infection could kill you.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by spot »

xfrodobagginsx wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:46 pm COVID is nothing like AIDS. 96% of the deaths have an average of 2.6 underlying health conditions that also could have killed them on their own without COVID, yet COVID is blamed by Political purposes. With AIDS, a small infection could kill you.
You have never provided a shred of evidence for the severity of the conditions nor given any peer-reviewed respectable source (or any at all) for the figure, despite being challenged on it previously. Perhaps you will now do so. It's on a par with the Republican court cases on voter fraud - all wind and no evidence.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by FourPart »

xfrodobagginsx wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:46 pm
FourPart wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:23 am The caveat is in the first line - "With No Underlying Health Conditions". Add in the Underlying Health Conditions & where do your figures stand then?

It's pretty much the same argument for AIDS. Hardly anyone ever died of AIDS. They died of other underlying issues to which AIDS had affected their defences.
COVID is nothing like AIDS. 96% of the deaths have an average of 2.6 underlying health conditions that also could have killed them on their own without COVID, yet COVID is blamed by Political purposes. With AIDS, a small infection could kill you.
Which is exactly my point. How many people actually died of AIDS rather than the underlying issue, and how many people died of Covid rather than the underlying issue. Basically, if you test positive for Covid & then, a week later, get run over by a bus, your death is recorded as "Covid Related".
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by LarsMac »

FourPart wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:33 am
xfrodobagginsx wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:46 pm
FourPart wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:23 am The caveat is in the first line - "With No Underlying Health Conditions". Add in the Underlying Health Conditions & where do your figures stand then?

It's pretty much the same argument for AIDS. Hardly anyone ever died of AIDS. They died of other underlying issues to which AIDS had affected their defences.
COVID is nothing like AIDS. 96% of the deaths have an average of 2.6 underlying health conditions that also could have killed them on their own without COVID, yet COVID is blamed by Political purposes. With AIDS, a small infection could kill you.
Which is exactly my point. How many people actually died of AIDS rather than the underlying issue, and how many people died of Covid rather than the underlying issue. Basically, if you test positive for Covid & then, a week later, get run over by a bus, your death is recorded as "Covid Related".
I must say that is stretching the logic just a tad.
Unless, of course, you were run over by the bus while on your way to the hospital to be treated for your COVID-related symptoms which complicated the efforts to repair the damage caused by the run-in with the bus.
Or then, one must ask, if the bus driver has also tested positive, and COVID-related symptoms cause him to fail to yield to an approaching train, and all the passengers are killed, are their deaths COVID related?
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by xfrodobagginsx »

Traffic is getting a little better here. That is a good thing.
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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by spot »

xfrodobagginsx wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:34 pm Traffic is getting a little better here. That is a good thing.
Out of interest, where are you taking your site statistics from?
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