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The Chinese are putting three men into orbit in four hours, I thought we might like a thread to follow the mission.

Yes, I think its exciting. Fair play to them, at least they have been doing something interesting with their money instead of blowing it on proping up bankers and the wives. I am sure superpowerchina will have something gauche to say about it. Well I say good luck to the astronauts (or taikonauts or whatever it is they term them in China) and hopefully they will have a sucessful trip into space. I look forward to the first all European manned space mission. Also, as usual I have to say that NASA have been doing some very interesting work lately in several areas, and its about time the US Government started funding them properly again, as its a wonderful scientific research organization, though if Sarah Palin gets in as VP she will probably have them flying to other planets to find GODS FOOTPRINTS! or something, or maybe she will just turn it into a BIBLE (dang it) studies group, ARGGHHHHH!

Its annoying about the helium leak in the LHC, but hopefully we will find some of those Higgs Bosons before too long! :guitarist

I prefer just one word rather than a different one for each nation - cosmonaut's fine, "traveller in the cosmos". Astronaut always seemed rather silly.

The Chinese have a rather more frontier-approach than the Americans ever had. The first Chinese cosmonaut "ate specially designed packets of shredded pork with garlic, Kung Pao chicken and eight treasure rice along with Chinese herbal tea" and had "a gun, a knife and tent in case he landed in the wrong place". They're all pleasing touches.

The official word is that "the Chinese manned space program is not aimed at sending tourists into space, but instead at preparing for the manned exploration of Mars and Saturn". Good, if ambitious. The current launch is part of a set which will build a mini-docking station to get the technology sorted efficiently.

spot;995096 wrote: I prefer just one word rather than a different one for each nation - cosmonaut's fine, "traveller in the cosmos". Astronaut always seemed rather silly.

The Chinese have a rather more frontier-approach than the Americans ever had. The first Chinese cosmonaut "ate specially designed packets of shredded pork with garlic, Kung Pao chicken and eight treasure rice along with Chinese herbal tea" and had "a gun, a knife and tent in case he landed in the wrong place". They're all pleasing touches.

The official word is that "the Chinese manned space program is not aimed at sending tourists into space, but instead at preparing for the manned exploration of Mars and Saturn". Good, if ambitious. The current launch is part of a set which will build a mini-docking station to get the technology sorted efficiently.


Saturn? What about Jupiter? They must be heading for Europa then, that is ambitious. Still, hopefully this will be a sucessful mission for them, and I appauld human beings from any nation trying to better the species by doing something important and useful. I do like the frontier touches, though I am unsure what use some of that stuff would be unless they crash land in New Guniea, still, thats their way I suppose.

Well, it's up now, they got it off effectively enough. In between the stage-managed bits there'll be plenty of excitement.

Spot- maybe a foolish question, but do all "major" countries have a space program?

Only three have a manned program, they're out on their own.

Lots can loft satellites. Even Iran can manage that on their own. And North Korea and India and France and a whole stack of places. Even Israel. Putting up a rocket into low earth orbit's no hassle. Bringing people down alive is quite a feat.

spot;995096 wrote: I prefer just one word rather than a different one for each nation - cosmonaut's fine, "traveller in the cosmos". Astronaut always seemed rather silly.



The Chinese have a rather more frontier-approach than the Americans ever had. The first Chinese cosmonaut "ate specially designed packets of shredded pork with garlic, Kung Pao chicken and eight treasure rice along with Chinese herbal tea" and had "a gun, a knife and tent in case he landed in the wrong place". They're all pleasing touches.



The official word is that "the Chinese manned space program is not aimed at sending tourists into space, but instead at preparing for the manned exploration of Mars and Saturn". Good, if ambitious. The current launch is part of a set which will build a mini-docking station to get the technology sorted efficiently.
What about chopsticks?

This will be a great mission to follow, good thread spot...............

RedGlitter;995970 wrote: Spot- maybe a foolish question, but do all "major" countries have a space program?


Actually, from 2010 to 2015 only two countries will have a manned launch capability, Russia and China. Europe might make a third sometime in the middle of that but the USA is withdrawing from the fray, it has no manned launch vehicle once the Shuttle's withdrawn from service in 2010. Current thinking is that if America stays reasonably polite to the USSR then they can get rides from them. Blame the Bush White House.

Russia, sorry. Old habits die hard. They will look for the politeness though.

spot;995096 wrote: "a gun, a knife and tent in case he landed in the wrong place". They're all pleasing touches.




That's what happened to Alexei Leonov, the first space walker, in 1965.

Leonov's Voskhod 2 landed off course, and he spent many hours in a remote area of the Steppes before the recovery team got to him. He was clutching his gun while listening to the howling wolves in the distance.

I wonder how it felt to be floating above the Earth at the beginning of the day, and finding yourself in the vast Russian wilderness at the end of it, hoping the wolves don't eat you.

You wouldn't forget such a day, that's for sure...



preparing for the manned exploration of Mars and Saturn". Good, if ambitious.


I'll say.

Saturn is an immense sphere of gas. They must be talking about one of it's satellites, but that's crazy,too. Sustaining even a single human being for the time it would take to get there is preposterous. (I assume they plan to bring him/her back to Earth, but that would really make things interesting. It's far beyond our current level of technology. Far beyond anything in the forseeable future, at this time.)

It makes far more sense to use robotic craft for space exploration.

As for a separate Chinese Mars mission, why bother? Pool your resources and talent into the international mission.Space exploration in the twenty first century is a global pursuit. The nationalist space programs as a means of propaganda belong to the last century.

I think much of this talk from the Chinese is bluster and bravado.

spot;994973 wrote: The Chinese are putting three men into orbit in four hours, I thought we might like a thread to follow the mission.


I wonder how an egg roll is freeze dried?

QUINNSCOMMENTARY;997251 wrote: I wonder how an egg roll is freeze dried?


Quickly, I would imagine.

They went for their walk and it all seems to have gone off well.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7637818.stm

Congratulations, China. I hope you have many more safe missions in the future. If our species doesn't get out there and stay out there and develop out there then we're a short-lived accident. We need to colonize the galaxy to be safer. China's top of my list for the way ahead.

Scrat;999188 wrote: Travel within our solar system is not far beyond our abilities, it is far beyond our will. It seems we prefer to spend trillions on killing one another than bettering our own lot as human beings.

We have ships on the drawing board now that could make the trip to Saturn inside of a year. All we would have to do is set up the infrastructure off world and decide what we want to do. Personally I think we need to go to the moon, Mars and asteroids first then Jupiter ect. We could do most of this in this century if we wanted too.


Also its important to note here that obvious we won't be visiting Saturn and Jupiter themselves, as they are gas giants. We will be visiting their moons, like Europa (interesting may have life); Titan, biggest moon in the SS; Ganymede, just has a cool name; and maybe Io, the enigma of the system. I can't think of a better thing for human beings to do that try to better themselves as a species and achieve these incredible goals, it sure beats using up all our capital in wallowing in pointless luxury that is slowly killing us anyway.

A loud huzzah please for the intrepid Chinese cosmonauts.China's Shenzhou VII space capsule has returned to Earth after a successful mission orbiting the planet. The spacecraft touched down in the Mongolian desert to rapturous applause from mission control in Beijing. Looking well, the three astronauts emerged to wave to cameras before being given bouquets of flowers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7640301.stm

spot;999299 wrote: A loud huzzah please for the intrepid Chinese cosmonauts.China's Shenzhou VII space capsule has returned to Earth after a successful mission orbiting the planet. The spacecraft touched down in the Mongolian desert to rapturous applause from mission control in Beijing. Looking well, the three astronauts emerged to wave to cameras before being given bouquets of flowers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7640301.stm




I salute them, at least one nation is still trying to better the species. I am glad that they came back safely from their mission. Kudos to the Chinese for their thrilling mission, they have come of age. It is certainly a weekend where one the one hand you have Western leaders fiddling with money supply to prevent a completely self-created financial collapse, while on the other side of the world a thrusting new superpower reveling in its technological prowess and showing us how things we used to know how to do (and had the will to do them) are done. Humbling I would say.

Galbally;999302 wrote: I salute them, at least one nation is still trying to better the species. I am glad that they came back safely from their mission. Kudos to the Chinese for their thrilling mission, they have come of age. It is certainly a weekend where one the one hand you have Western leaders fiddling with money supply to prevent a completely self-created financial collapse, while on the other side of the world a thrusting new superpower reveling in its technological prowess and showing us how things we used to know how to do (and had the will to do them) are done. Humbling I would say.


Yet this is a nation that purposely puts toxic industrial chemicals in it's milk.

Oh, and the Shenzhou VII not only orbits the Earth, it apparently can travel through time :

from yahoo.com:

BEIJING - A news story describing a successful launch of China's long-awaited space mission and including detailed dialogue between astronauts launched on the Internet Thursday, hours before the rocket had even left the ground.


Amazing!

The "taikonauts" were in space, even as their craft sat on the launch pad!

Richard Bell;1008681 wrote: Yet this is a nation that purposely puts toxic industrial chemicals in it's milk.Richard, I can't believe you put anything so unseemly into a serious thread. It's on a level with saying the FBI sponsored Mark David Chapman to murder John Lennon. The entrepreneurs trying to make an inefficient profit in a cut-throat Chinese industry and the lone murderer stalking his prey in New York were outside of the law and unknown to the authorities until they'd committed their crimes.

Richard Bell;1008681 wrote: Yet this is a nation that purposely puts toxic industrial chemicals in it's milk.

Oh, and the Shenzhou VII not only orbits the Earth, it apparently can travel through time :

from yahoo.com:



Amazing!

The "taikonauts" were in space, even as their craft sat on the launch pad!


I think trying to use their problems with their industrial sector (who appear to be as about as rapacious and willing to bend the rules as our own) is a little churlish. As for the taikonauts sitting in their capsule and having their event stage managed would not surprise me, they chinese government are a paranoid totalitarian one, if reasonably benign. The conspiracy theorists will of course have a field day (yawn). The main point is that the Chinese seem to believe in having a future, whereas our own countries are about wasting the present or retreating into some imagined past.

Galbally;1008812 wrote: I think trying to use their problems with their industrial sector (who appear to be as about as rapacious and willing to bend the rules as our own) is a little churlish.


It's the dichotomy of a nation that has made immense technological strides in recent decades, yet still has rogue industries engaging in dangerous and criminal practices. I could have also mentioned the great number of annual coal mining fatalities in the country.

from chinadaily.com:



In 2003, the average coal miner in China produces 321 tons of coal a year; this is only 2.2 percent of that in the United States and 8.1 percent that of South Africa. The death rate for every 100 tons of coal, however, is 100 times of that of the US and 30 times of the South Africa.


I'm not a hardcore Sinophile, so I find a good deal of irony in these events.

Forty years ago, similar observations were made about the USA. Much was made of America's achievements in space, while her cities were ravaged with racial strife. The Soviet Union was noted at the same time for their pioneering space program, while their economy teetered along with sparse and poorly made products.

spot;995975 wrote: Lots can loft satellites. Even Iran can manage that on their own. And North Korea and India and France and a whole stack of places. Even Israel. Putting up a rocket into low earth orbit's no hassle. Bringing people down alive is quite a feat.


On a related note, India's launching a lunar orbiter which will help select the first moonbase site, it's intended to map better than anyone's mapped before. It's equipped with a landing probe too - perhaps I mean crashing probe. The Indians are going to the moon, anyway, on October 22nd, weather permitting.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7656396.stm

spot;1011157 wrote: On a related note, India's launching a lunar orbiter which will help select the first moonbase site, it's intended to map better than anyone's mapped before. It's equipped with a landing probe too - perhaps I mean crashing probe. The Indians are going to the moon, anyway, on October 22nd, weather permitting.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7656396.stm


Go India, when are us Europeans going to Mars then?

Galbally;1011448 wrote: Go India, when are us Europeans going to Mars then?


The Mars Society is predominantly Eurocentric. In a Mars-oriented sort of way. And the British Interplanetary Society has already called for volunteer colonists of which I'm pleased to note I'm one, though they do say it's a one-way ticket. They're working on the basis that private funding will get us there and that we'll have sovereign status when we arrive, with automatic Commonwealth membership. We're promised at least one Test Series every conjunction.

spot;999299 wrote: A loud huzzah please for the intrepid Chinese cosmonauts.China's Shenzhou VII space capsule has returned to Earth after a successful mission orbiting the planet. The spacecraft touched down in the Mongolian desert to rapturous applause from mission control in Beijing. Looking well, the three astronauts emerged to wave to cameras before being given bouquets of flowers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7640301.stm




What are these wormholes we are hearing more and more of Spot?

oscar;1013556 wrote: What are these wormholes we are hearing more and more of Spot?


Plot devices in science fiction dramas which allow rapid teleportation of large manned vehicles across stellar distances in a way in which the speed of light isn't a constraint.on the apparent distance travelled.

spot;1013563 wrote: Plot devices in science fiction dramas which allow rapid teleportation of large manned vehicles across stellar distances in a way in which the speed of light isn't a constraint.on the apparent distance travelled.


The theory came from Einstein.

Massive objects such as planets and stars can actually bend space and time.

A wormhole could form when two or more massive bodies warp space creating a tunnel between distant planets.

Some religions are beginning to think this could be the closest we'll get to life after death. I would not go that far, but i do believe wormholes can exist.

oscar;1013642 wrote: The theory came from Einstein.

Massive objects such as planets and stars can actually bend space and time.

A wormhole could form when two or more massive bodies warp space creating a tunnel between distant planets.

Some religions are beginning to think this could be the closest we'll get to life after death. I would not go that far, but i do believe wormholes can exist.


Some people believe that Jesus will one day return, bring about the bodily resurrection of the dead and intercede for those destined for redemption. Quite a lot of people believe that, actually. Hundreds of millions of people alive today believe it as a core element of their understanding of the way the universe works. They have as little evidence for their belief as you have for the one you just expressed. Why anyone chooses to believe anything baffles me. What's wrong with just interpreting the world in terms of evidence?

spot;1013646 wrote: Some people believe that Jesus will one day return, bring about the bodily resurrection of the dead and intercede for those destined for redemption. Quite a lot of people believe that, actually. Hundreds of millions of people alive today believe it as a core element of their understanding of the way the universe works. They have as little evidence for their belief as you have for the one you just expressed. Why anyone chooses to believe anything baffles me. What's wrong with just interpreting the world in terms of evidence?


I agree that at present, there is no evidence. I don't certainly believe it, i just believe it could be possible.

Surely the missions of manned space travel conflict with the theory of String worldsheet?

oscar;1013667 wrote: Surely the missions of manned space travel conflict with the theory of String worldsheet?


I almost hesitate to ask, but why? Closed string makes sense but a closed string worldsheet is no larger than your normal elementary particle as it moves through time, it's just another way of doing the sums. What experimental evidence has anyone ever come up with for the existence an open string and why would you expect to find one near a manned space mission? It would be just as jarring a thing for the planet to meet as for a spacecraft and the planet's never met one - it's still here, after all.

spot;1011157 wrote: The Indians are going to the moon, anyway, on October 22nd, weather permitting.


And, joy of joys, they're away on time! Congratulations to everyone at the Satish Dhawan Space Centre, this is a wonderful achievement.

Chandrayaan will slip into a near-circular orbit at an altitude of 1,000km. After a number of health checks, the probe will drop its altitude until it is orbiting just 100km above the lunar surface.

India, China, Japan and South Korea all have eyes on a share of the commercial satellite launch business and see their space programmes as an important symbol of international stature and economic development.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7679818.stm

I think its wonderful that India is bringing itself into the space age. Also the image of row upon row, upon row of thousands of highly educated, motivated young Indian engineers and physicists should be giving the US, Britain and other nations pause for thought about the state of the young people they are producing nowadays and their almost complete ignorance of science and engineering.

This is the main reason why the West hasn't come up with any new major delivery vehicle since the space shuttle, the space station program is stalled, and the SSHC has been parked for 15 years. Many of these problems being the fact that many right-wing religious Americans seem intent on destroying their once wonderful and world beating science establishment, finishing what the Bush administration has been doing in undermining evidence-based science, and the basic scientific education of children. Many chickens coming home to roost my friends, you mark my words.

It puzzles me that a country which once had such pride in its achievements in space is going to end up in two years time with no manned launch capability. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe within two years there'll be a commercial venture capable of putting people into low-earth orbit and docking with the International Space Station. I don't believe that's going to happen, in which case relying on the goodwill of Russia to transport US astronauts is all that will get US astronauts to the station and back.

Is this generally understood in the US? Does anyone mind much?

That last post didn't get so much as a twitch of a response to it. Odd.

The Indians got their probe down safely! The more that mission does the more amazed I am at what they've achieved.India's first unmanned lunar spacecraft, Chandrayaan 1, has placed a probe on the surface of the Moon. The probe, painted with the Indian flag, touched down at 2034 (1504 GMT), the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) said. It will perform various experiments, including measuring the composition of the Moon's atmosphere.

BBC NEWS | World | South Asia | Indian probe touches down on MoonCongratulations, India, on yet another successful phase of an outstanding science mission.

spot;995096 wrote: The official word is that "the Chinese manned space program is not aimed at sending tourists into space, but instead at preparing for the manned exploration of Mars and Saturn". Good, if ambitious. The current launch is part of a set which will build a mini-docking station to get the technology sorted efficiently.


And the moon probe is successfully away! Congratulations!A Long March 3C rocket with the Chang'e-2 probe took off from Xichang launch centre at about 1100 GMT. The rocket will shoot the craft into the trans-lunar orbit, after which the satellite is expected to reach the Moon in about five days. Chang'e-2 will be used to test key technologies and collect data for future landings. The latest launch, to test key technologies and gather data, is China's second lunar mission

China says it will send a rover on its next mission, and it also has ambitions to put humans on the surface of the lunar body at some future date.

BBC News - China launches Moon mission

If I remember right the Chinese are putting a manned space station of their own up in 2012. I might have the date wrong, I ought to check, but the first component module is already in orbit.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Elon Musk's "privately built and operated spacecraft", the Dragon, is going to dock at the ISS in around eight weeks. And no, I didn't believe that either at first, but it seems to be so.

Elon Musk's private Dragon ship to dock with ISS in Feb

The Chinese have again demonstrated that they have a current capability of lifting people into orbit, putting them on a par with Russia in that regard.

BBC News - China launches space mission with first woman astronaut

My good wishes to the crew of Shenzhou-9 and to all who have worked so effectively to get them into space.

They do seem to be doing things right with Shenzhou-9, it's a pleasure to watch. I have great hopes that the Chinese will do what's needed and establish a permanent human presence off-planet.

BBC News - China's Shenzhou capsule docks with space lab

The Chinese are at it again, with yet another woman.

BBC News - Shenzhou-10: Chinese capsule docks with space laboratory

My deep respect and congratulations.

spot;1336221 wrote: China says it will send a rover on its next mission


I case anyone's not keeping up, the Chinese Chang'e-3 Rover has been operating on the moon for the last two years and is still performing science.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... utu-rover/

"China has announced that its Chang'e 5 mission to visit the Moon and bring back some samples will take place in the second half of 2017."

China confirms moonshot • The Register

That will be the first samples back from the moon in over forty years. We're finally stirring again. I do hope we see a permanent Moonbase soon.

spot;1496309 wrote: "China has announced that its Chang'e 5 mission to visit the Moon and bring back some samples will take place in the second half of 2017."

China confirms moonshot • The Register

That will be the first samples back from the moon in over forty years. We're finally stirring again. I do hope we see a permanent Moonbase soon.
No doubt the conpiracists will either claim that this will be the first time Man has ever set foot on the Moon - or will probably deny they ever really went there either.

Chang'e 5 isn't manned.

spot;1496329 wrote: Chang'e 5 isn't manned.
Sorry - I misunderstood.

Looking forward to seeing what they bring back.