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Should I feel sorry for this foolish woman's spoiled wedding day?! Please....nobody tell me she may not have known her kid was in the car- that's her freaking JOB!!

CNN Video: http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/200 ... n.suv.wptv

Her wedding day? No

Her? Hell yes -unless you are a moron who thinks accidents are only allowed to happen to you.

Is there a text summary accessible anywhere?

spot;923293 wrote: Is there a text summary accessible anywhere?
I think this is it

SUBURBAN WEST PALM BEACH, FL -- A child dies after being left in a car for nearly three hours.

It happened on what was supposed to be his mother's wedding day.

The Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office says the four-year-old's mother, Mirlande Jean-Baptiste, parked her S-U-V, then spent several hours in a nail salon Saturday.

When she returned to her vehicle nearly three hours later, she found her son near death.

Witnesses say she performed CPR but was unsuccessful.

The boy was pronounced dead at Palms West Hospital.

Sgt. Pete Palenzuela, Public Information Officer with the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office, tells NewsChannel 5, "When she arrived at the hospital she thought perhaps there was a chance the boy would live or survive. When she learned the boy had passed she had an emotional breakdown."

Investigators say the woman may not have known her son was in the car.

They explain he may have climbed in to the vehicle without anyone noticing.

The Sheriff's Office says it's too soon to determine of the mother will face any charges.

PALM BEACH COUNTY, FL

Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office is working a death investigation of a four-year-old boy found in a hot SUV this afternoon.

A call came in to Palm Beach County Fire Rescue of a four-year-old in cardiac arrest in the 2600 block of Military Trail, near Cresthaven Blvd around noon.

The boy's 29-year-old mother was with a female relative at a nail salon for up to two hours before the boy was discovered in the SUV.

The boy's mother was getting her nails done for her wedding which was to take place today.

Earlier in the morning, the mother had dropped off several children with a relative but it is unclear why the boy was still in the vehicle.

It is unclear if he snuck back into the car or if he was left behind by mistake.

The boy was taken to Palms West Hospital where he was pronounced dead.

The mother had to be sedated at the hospital by caretakers.

PBSO is continuing to investigate.

LINK

I'm tired of being expected by idiots to feel sorry for these stupid parents. We've had this talk before about parents backing over their kids and such and the parents here whine that we parentless "don't understand." Well I understand that we could do a far better job than what we're seeing here. If you don't have eyes in the back of your head at all times don't have a kid. Being around kids means you need to expect the unexpected. Everybody gets so riled over the abortion and welfare topics we have going now but when it cimes to a child's safety they make horseh.it excuses for fellow parents' stupidity. I'm not buying it. I'm p.issed off! How many kids have to die before people wake up??

I cannot believe you would make such a comment Red. Seriously the whole you could do it better comment was uncalled for.

Accountable;923300 wrote: I think this is it

SUBURBAN WEST PALM BEACH, FL -- A child dies after being left in a car for nearly three hours.

It happened on what was supposed to be his mother's wedding day.

The Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office says the four-year-old's mother, Mirlande Jean-Baptiste, parked her S-U-V, then spent several hours in a nail salon Saturday.

When she returned to her vehicle nearly three hours later, she found her son near death.



Investigators say the woman may not have known her son was in the car.



They explain he may have climbed in to the vehicle without anyone noticing.



The Sheriff's Office says it's too soon to determine of the mother will face any charges.

PALM BEACH COUNTY, FL



Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office is working a death investigation of a four-year-old boy found in a hot SUV this afternoon.



A call came in to Palm Beach County Fire Rescue of a four-year-old in cardiac arrest in the 2600 block of Military Trail, near Cresthaven Blvd around noon.



The boy's 29-year-old mother was with a female relative at a nail salon for up to two hours before the boy was discovered in the SUV.



The boy's mother was getting her nails done for her wedding which was to take place today.



Earlier in the morning, the mother had dropped off several children with a relative but it is unclear why the boy was still in the vehicle.



It is unclear if he snuck back into the car or if he was left behind by mistake.



The boy was taken to Palms West Hospital where he was pronounced dead.



The mother had to be sedated at the hospital by caretakers.



PBSO is continuing to investigate.

LINK


OK it seems kinda hard to understand how a "4" year old could climb into a high SUV by himself, let alone even "reach" the door handle. But let's suppose the boy did somehow sneak back into the car. So was he so quiet as a church mouse, and didn't make a sound all the time his mom was driving, alerting her he was there?! The "continued" police investigation is definately required!!!

RedGlitter;923311 wrote: I'm tired of being expected by idiots to feel sorry for these stupid parents. We've had this talk before about parents backing over their kids and such and the parents here whine that we parentless "don't understand." Well I understand that we could do a far better job than what we're seeing here. If you don't have eyes in the back of your head at all times don't have a kid. Being around kids means you need to expect the unexpected. Everybody gets so riled over the abortion and welfare topics we have going now but when it cimes to a child's safety they make horseh.it excuses for fellow parents' stupidity. I'm not buying it. I'm p.issed off! How many kids have to die before people wake up??
FWEEEET!! Flag on play! Flop's no idiot and that's crossing the line. You can disagree without the personal attacks. I've seen it.

flopstock;923286 wrote: Her wedding day? No

Her? Hell yes -unless you are a moron who thinks accidents are only allowed to happen to you.


Accountable;923328 wrote: FWEEEET!! Flag on play! Flop's no idiot and that's crossing the line. You can disagree without the personal attacks. I've seen it.


And I'm no moron, Acc. I get real tired of the few times Flopstock bothers to respond to me only to insert her snide remarks toward me. She needs to knock it off. It goes both ways.

And Sheryl I stand by what I said. I'm tired of kids dying via their parents' stupidity. NO EXCUSES.

fuzzy butt;923327 wrote: Cars these things happen and yes he could be as quiet as a mouse. As most of you know I live in a rural area . I see kids as young as two able to get into 4WD 's without any trouble at all. Especially if they are known as "climbers".

My own children have snuck into the one of my cars , and it was only by the grace of God that I had to take out garbage to the bin that I saw them.
But did they reach & "open" the door handle themselves allowing them to climb in? "Could be" as quiet as a mouse, most likely could not as well.

Cars, my kids at 3 could open and get into the cars by themselves.

In between everyone taking shots at each other here, someone want to explain if this 4 year old was supposed to be with relatives, why did noone notice he wasn't there?

Peg;923360 wrote: In between everyone taking shots at each other here, someone want to explain if this 4 year old was supposed to be with relatives, why did noone notice he wasn't there?
Don't you start! I can still turn you over my knee! :sneaky:

Don't you be threatening me with a good time!

I do have children 3 of them and as a mother my first priority was my children. I made sure I knew where they were and who they were with until they were a lot older than 4.

Thats not to say they didn't have accidents but sometimes even when you are standing next to them they can fall and theres nothing you can do.

But....these kinds of stories the accidently backing over the kid or leaving them in the car type always make me wonder......

RedGlitter;923347 wrote: And I'm no moron, Acc. I get real tired of the few times Flopstock bothers to respond to me only to insert her snide remarks toward me. She needs to knock it off. It goes both ways.Will you PLEASE stop reading "you" as a personal reference! - except that in this sentence it obviously is one. The only alternative is to use "Hell yes -unless one is a moron who thinks accidents are only allowed to happen to oneself" which is extreme avoidance. It's quite simple - if "you" can be interpreted generically, interpret the damn word generically and stop making threads such explosive soap operas all the while.

Right - accident or callous criminality...Her sister, Juliana, 24, described the morning. The sisters planned to leave Gregory; his sister, Lisa Jean, 10; his cousin, Tracie Cineus, 8; and another girl with a friend, Emanuella Castor. Castor would take the three girls to have their hair done at a nearby salon.

Juliana and her sister thought all the children jumped into the friend's car. Then the sisters chatted with Castor for a couple of minutes from their Ford Expedition. The back door remained open until Castor closed it, and the two sisters drove to US Nails at 2650 S. Military Trail west of Lake Worth.

They were at the salon for about three hours, said Linda Le, the owner of US Nails. Mirlande Jean-Baptiste got a facial, a full set of acrylic nails and a pedicure. She had been Le's client since moving from Fort Lauderdale about a year ago "She was very happy," Le said. "She was preparing for a really big day. ... They were just relaxing, having a good time." When their nails were done, Juliana walked to the car to get cash while her sister paid. She was opening her wallet when she felt the need to look back. She caught a glimpse of yellow fabric, so she looked more closely. That's when she ran to the back door, opened it and carried Gregory out of the car.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/local_news ... death.html

So, firstly it's two of them driving off for the morning, both saying they had a reasonable basis for thinking the boy was elsewhere, they thought they'd seen him driven off in another car. Secondly all this "could he open a SUV" is irrelevant.

Obviously there was insufficient communication between the two groups, in hindsight. It does seem to me to be a shared failure of responsibility though. If you really want blood, RG, then take the childminder... "Castor had noticed the boy was not in her car, sheriff's officials said. She assumed Gregory had gotten back into the Expedition and was with his mother but didn't call her to confirm that, the sheriff's report said". That's three separate women who have all agreed on where the boy ought to have been that morning, and you can bet law enforcement's kept them apart before making statements to prevent collusion.

Did you really write "Should I feel sorry for this foolish woman's spoiled wedding day"? That's pretty despicable. How can you even ask?

The idiots are the ones who crack a window down a bit thinking that's sufficient for safety, not the ones who lock their cars up unaware there's a stowaway behind the seat.

The idiot when a child gets backed over isn't the driver, it's the person responsible for the child at that moment.

The idiot in this thread's no different - the person responsible for the child during that period. Why do you insist it's his mother?

Will you PLEASE stop reading "you" as a personal reference! - except that in this sentence it obviously is one. The only alternative is to use "Hell yes -unless one is a moron who thinks accidents are only allowed to happen to oneself" which is extreme avoidance. It's quite simple - if "you" can be interpreted generically, interpret the damn word generically and stop making threads such damn explosive soap operas all the while.


Get a grip on it Spot. Please. The thread IS a soap opera unless you've suddenly changed your mind about kids and car death.

RedGlitter;923413 wrote: Get a grip on it Spot. Please. The thread IS a soap opera unless you've suddenly changed your mind about kids and car death.


Rubbish. You simply enjoy shouting at people. Discussing "kids and car death" doesn't need raised voices.

Have you no response at all that's on topic?

spot;923416 wrote: Rubbish. You simply enjoy shouting at people. Discussing "kids and car death" doesn't need raised voices.

Have you no response at all that's on topic?


My reponse is that you're late. Your response was not needed. And that's the end of it.

RedGlitter;923417 wrote: My reponse is that you're late. Your response was not needed. And that's the end of it.


No, it's not that - you completely walked past me in "bringing up kids on welfare" as well. There and here I've questioned the moral sense of the OP and the poster of the OP prefers to pretend there's been no question presented.

The idiot in this thread's the person responsible for the child during that period. Why do you insist it's his mother?

RedGlitter;923233 wrote: Should I feel sorry for this foolish woman's spoiled wedding day?! Please....nobody tell me she may not have known her kid was in the car- that's her freaking JOB!!

Let me rephrase the question, since you feel that "you're late. Your response was not needed. And that's the end of it". Do you still stand by your OP in the light of my comments?

I've no idea why you think I'm late. We're not at a meeting.

Sheryl;923358 wrote: Cars, my kids at 3 could open and get into the cars by themselves.
OK, that's amazing Sheryl. But would they really just sit there riding in the car (not being belted in their car seat, if they got in there unknown to the mom) without making a sound at all? :-2

(No crying, talking, screaming, laughing, singing, or even calling mommie, whatever?)

spot;923421 wrote: No, it's not that - you completely walked past me in "bringing up kids on welfare" as well. There and here I've questioned the moral sense of the OP and the poster of the OP prefers to pretend there's been no question presented.

What do you mean I walked past you? Normally if I know you're looking to argue, I ignore you rather than respond.

The idiot in this thread's the person responsible for the child during that period. Why do you insist it's his mother?


Because *ultimately* a child is its mothers and/or fathers responsibility at all times. Apparently this mother left her kid with an insufficient sitter. The sitter is responsible certainly. And so is the mother ultimately.

spot;923431 wrote: Let me rephrase the question, since you feel that "you're late. Your response was not needed. And that's the end of it". Do you still stand by your OP in the light of my comments?

Absolutely, I stand by everything I have said about the issue.

I've no idea why you think I'm late. We're not at a meeting.


That was in reference to you ignoring Diane's snideness yet as usual jumping on my frame way after the fact. It was done and over by the time you arrived.

I also don't find anything I've said to be "despicable." Out here in the desert we have child drownings every stinking summer without fail. The news comes on and they remind people to watch their kids around the pool yet someone screws up and a kid dies. They say "I only looked away for a second." Or "I thought he was in his room." I'm supposed to feel bad for these parents? Be one step ahead of the kid all the time. That's what the job entails.

I feel the same way about this kid's useless death.

Peg;923360 wrote: In between everyone taking shots at each other here, someone want to explain if this 4 year old was supposed to be with relatives, why did noone notice he wasn't there?


Thats what i was thinking too peg whoever was supposed tobe looking after this child didnt notice he wasnt there for 3 hours!!!

kazalala;923580 wrote: Thats what i was thinking too peg whoever was supposed tobe looking after this child didnt notice he wasnt there for 3 hours!!!


Each car driver thought the boy was in the other car and neither phoned to check.

Both car drivers and the mother had agreed that the boy would go with the three girls for the morning.

I seriously don't know what else the mother could have done that would have prevented this. has anyone a suggestion to offer?

kazalala;923580 wrote: Thats what i was thinking too peg whoever was supposed tobe looking after this child didnt notice he wasnt there for 3 hours!!!Kaz last week Chris found a child of about 2 wondering near his house.He couldn't believe it and felt very uncomfortable about the situation ...being a man on his own holding the childs hand looking where the baby could have come from or if anybody was looking for him.I turned up at this point..........we went to all near houses........nothing.....we eventually got hold of a neighbour who was married to a Policeman and she took over.We had to go somewhere but it turned out that the police had not heard anything about a missing child.....also EVENTUALLY a guy turned very cool....and not even that worried......dont know the outcome but hope to God the police had a long chat with the family concerned.....fgs that baby was lucky Chris found him....as apart it was in a road ...can you imagine what could have happened...

Thats frightening Carol.. I think in the case of this child in the car though,, it seems just a bit more attention could have been paid, The sitter should have phoned the mum to confirm if the child was with her ( i know i would have) did the mum not want to say bye to her baby and she wouldn be long etc. ? I think she should have made sure her child was secure in the other car,, yes these things happen,, but if it hapened to me i would be asking myself these tough questions,,

kazalala;923593 wrote: did the mum not want to say bye to her baby and she wouldn be long etc. ? I think she should have made sure her child was secure in the other car,, yes these things happen,, but if it hapened to me i would be asking myself these tough questions,,On one's wedding day one tends to get organized by other people. I find it hard to join in this public thrashing of a woman who's already bereft without this moralizing. All I feel is sympathy for her position.

I feel sympathy for her,, but i would still be asking myself those questions. I also feel sympathy for a boy who died.

So you'd endorse the "foolish" label from the opening post?

I have no interest in judging the OP i just felt like commenting on the actual event itself.

You feel she should have done more on the day to ensure her child's safety?

I doubt very much that this mother will ever forgive herself or forget. It is obvious from her reactions at the time and later in the hospital, that she was devastated.

I personally feel that the woman has had the worst punishment possible, for her inefficiency and apparent slapdash 'care'. I doubt that anybody but she will know the real truth about what happened, that led up to this tragedy. She has been instrumental in the death of her child, either by carelessness or misplaced trust in a third party

She will, for ever, wish she could have those few hours back so she could do things differently. She will never forgive herself.

Hopefully, this terrible tragedy will be a salutary lesson to ALL parents, to make sure that their child is safe at all times.

But I do have to say, that I am forever witnessing the stupidity of some parents. I feel that they cannot have an imagination, they are unable to see the consequences of their actions, or inactions. How many times do I see 'mum' allowing her 3 year old to run ahead of her, unreined, along a pavement at the side of a busy road ? Turns my blood cold.

The trouble is, getting through to somebody who's attitude is 'it won't happen to me, it happens to others'.

When it does happen to them, they are the ones who scream the loudest and longest and are full of hate towards their God who allowed it to happen !

G#Gill;923629 wrote: Hopefully, this terrible tragedy will be a salutary lesson to ALL parents, to make sure that their child is safe at all times.


I've been childminding for nine hours a day five days a week since May with a half-term break and it's a rare day that the child's mother phones me. Your judgement applies to her as much as to the mother the thread's discussing. She's handed over responsibility for this child's safety to me and for the rest of her working day there's nothing she should do to influence matters, it would be unreasonable to burden her with any such responsibility. The child's safety is up to me, not her.

spot;923676 wrote: I've been childminding for nine hours a day five days a week since May with a half-term break and it's a rare day that the child's mother phones me. Your judgement applies to her as much as to the mother the thread's discussing. She's handed over responsibility for this child's safety to me and for the rest of her working day there's nothing she should do to influence matters, it would be unreasonable to burden her with any such responsibility. The child's safety is up to me, not her.
Still her responsibility. She's the mother. It's her responsibility to ensure you are responsible. If anything happens, regardless of who's legally at fault, she is responsible because she allowed her child to be put in that situation.

ETA: the father is equally responsible.

Accountable;923695 wrote: Still her responsibility. She's the mother. It's her responsibility to ensure you are responsible. If anything happens, regardless of who's legally at fault, she is responsible because she allowed her child to be put in that situation.

ETA: the father is equally responsible.


You know what? I actually disagree with this. I think children are the responsibility of society at large, not of the parents. The parents are just the biological accident that brought a child into existence. I think we all of us share proportionately in the successful outcome of that person.

spot;923702 wrote: You know what? I actually disagree with this. I think children are the responsibility of society at large, not of the parents. The parents are just the biological accident that brought a child into existence. I think we all of us share proportionately in the successful outcome of that person.
Hear that loud sucking sound? It's society going down the drain.



Diluting responsibility relieves everyone of any responsibility at all. The result is people looking around & not seeing the kid that was supposed to be there and assuming someone else must be taking care of it. Everyone involved is allowed to do so.



Your post seems to imply it wasn't the mother's responsibility to ensure you'd be a trustworthy nanny.

Tragic to say the least. I'm not sure what the truth is here but something isn't right. A 4 year old gets into a SUV by himself, maybe depending on the SUV and how high off the ground it was. I have my doubts but until all the facts are in I will reserve judgment on this women.

Someone made a mistake here thats more than obvious. If he was suppose to be left with the other kids and wasn't, you would think someone would have noticed and called the mother.

Was he in a car seat? if so then we have a different story and the mother forgot he was in the car. Did the mother remove him from the seat to do CPR? If the boy wasn't in the car seat he would have be looking out the windows at some point and you would think he would have been noticed. Kids will only be still and quite for a few minutes.

My instincts tell me there is more to this story then the mother is telling. A complete investigation on the inside of the vehicle might give them some clues, might not since she seem to have several children.

Still a very tragic story.

Thanks Jester, although i don't think I said she should be charged with anything. I'm simply holding her to be a neglectful parent. I guess I'm just amazed that people would make excuses for her. To me, that smacks of justification and negates the death of a small boy.

Jester;923834 wrote: Well I see your point, it is negligence in the greater scheme of things but really, to hold her responsible is to level some form of punishment.

Lets turn the senario around and say the kid found her hand gun and shot himself while playing with it. Shoudl she or woudl we then expect her to be prosecuted for negligent homocide for alowing the gun into the childs hands?

Lets say it was lcoked up and trigger locked and he found the keys and got it out and did the same thing... is she neligent then?


Yes.

She may have made a conscious effort to lock the gun cabinet but she ultimately failed if her kid was able to locate the keys and get to the gun. This is what I'm saying...expect the unexpected. We know kids are all kinds of accidents waiting to happen, so be ahead of them. I realize a lot of people are thinking "Yeah Red sure..." but if I have no kids and know that, then what's wrong with parents? Saying "it's not her fault it's the sitter's fault (only)" takes responsibility from the parents. I don't think that's right. After all a parent is legally responsible and in many cases held morally responsible for what their child does until its 18, so why would we suddenly yank responsibility off them when they fail to protect the child? And if it sounds like my judgement is placing punishment on her, well, I think it should. A small human is dead and ultimately it's her fault. Some have said his death is punishment enough and I'm not saying she should serve time for it but I don't have a problem with her feeling she's being punished.

And thanks for posting Jester; you're an asset to getting a discussion going, whether we agree or not, I appreciate that.

Accountable;923712 wrote: Hear that loud sucking sound? It's society going down the drain.



Diluting responsibility relieves everyone of any responsibility at all. The result is people looking around & not seeing the kid that was supposed to be there and assuming someone else must be taking care of it. Everyone involved is allowed to do so.



Your post seems to imply it wasn't the mother's responsibility to ensure you'd be a trustworthy nanny.


In an ideal society no child would suffer a family upbringing. State creches and professionally run dormitories would be far better than what Western society has done for the last few hundred years.

The only way to make sure no children are ever involved in an accident is to lock them into a round rubber room when it is impossible for at least one of the parents to have both eyes glued on them every second.



It is the parents responsibility to raise and try and keep their children from harm. We do the best we can and sorry to say sometimes it isn't enough. My kids have all had some accidents that involved some stitches and broken bones (thank God that is all).. So crucify me for not locking them up in a rubber room when theses accidents happened.

spot;923862 wrote: In an ideal society no child would suffer a family upbringing. State creches and professionally run dormitories would be far better than what Western society has done for the last few hundred years.
I never know when you're serious.