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as seen in the AMBER ALERT thread, there is a great deal of opinion on the issue of crime and punishment. instead of limiting the conversation to the narrow and sometimes inflammatory subject of the death penalty, perhaps a conversation about your concerns about the justice system, about the courts, about prisons, (about the police:) ) , anything involving criminology, would be a topic of interest. it would also be intriguing to hear the perspectives of all our international membership. i will start by saying American law evolved from British common law, and many of the elements remain intact. what are your thoughts? how do you feel about the state of crime and punishment where you live?

I often see people that have commited heinous crimes getting a lighter sentence than someone who had a drug offense. I find it upsetting that possession is worse than harming or killing a person. I don't have cases to cite, I would have to seriously hunt to support my comment. But this is just a general observation.

cites aren't necessary, your opinion is what matters, and if anyone wants to bring specific cases here that's good too. i do want to say i did not start this thread to defend every little thing in the criminal justice system, there are things i don't agree with, (but i am sworn to uphold) and courts that make me, as a LEO , very frustrated. lenient judges in murder cases i have known giving wildly inappropriate plea deals, and victims who are lost in the process.

lady cop wrote: as seen in the AMBER ALERT thread, there is a great deal of opinion on the issue of crime and punishment. instead of limiting the conversation to the narrow and sometimes inflammatory subject of the death penalty, perhaps a conversation about your concerns about the justice system, about the courts, about prisons, (about the police:) ) , anything involving criminology, would be a topic of interest. it would also be intriguing to hear the perspectives of all our international membership. i will start by saying American law evolved from British common law, and many of the elements remain intact. what are your thoughts? how do you feel about the state of crime and punishment where you live?
I've been in New Zealand since the first of November and there has hardly been a day go by that there isn't an article or two in the local paper (City of Christchurch 450,000 population) bashing the police for one thing or another.

Giving too many speeding tickets----unecessary use of force-----not responding quickly to burglaries (do to writing so many tickets)---- a rape 12 years ago by a group of police officers----etc, etc. Never ever, anything good to say. By feeling is that there is a general disliking of authority.



Most Americans would cringe at the lenient sentences handed out by the courts for murder, aggravated assault, assualt with a deadly weapon, home invasion.

It all depends whether you think Prison is for punishment or rehabilitation. If someone is ultimately going to be released back into society then surely it is better to treat them in a manner that will help to assimilate them back into the general population. I have heard the converse of this argument that says if you make prison so harsh offenders will not reoffend, this patently does not work, most criminals do not worry about being caught until it happens.

punishment or rehabiliitation? good question. in the case of youthful offenders i would hope for rehab. they have programs such as GED and then there's bible studies and also AA, NA, domestic violence classes, all types of self-help is available. older and more recalcitrant recidivist career criminals are less amenable to being turned around.. a lot depends on the nature of their crimes and the length of their sentences. if someone is going to be out in a few years one would hope they have decided to be a good citizen. there is a reason we have levels of incarceration, from minimum to super-max. dangerousness and type of offense being deciding factors in classification of the inmate. i do believe from all studies done that sexual offenders/pedophiles NEVER change. they are hardwired to like what they like. chemical castration does no good, and neither does psychiatry. in the case of killers, punishment is fine with me. they're not usually getting out, and i don't give a rat's arse if they are in uncomfortable surroundings. same goes for rapists. i do not advocate abuse of any kind, and there is a duty to protect the guests of the state.

hello Logan, welcome to FG ......actually most don't want to return to either jail or prison, although some do become institutionalized after long periods and can't function well outside the walls.most who return do so because they are simply lifetime career criminals, and not very bright. it is true that when the weather gets cold some people get arrested intentionally for a bed and three meals a day, as well as medical attention/meds..... and you just had to throw that in there about how the cops were going to DUNKIN' DONUTS huh?? LOL, i guess the guy figured it was a sure bet a cop would come along!

I did not get involved in 'Amber Alert', as I don't live in your part of the world, the United States. But crime commited against children I would have no mercy on these perverts that commited the crime.I'd have them stoned to death in a public place.

I've said this before, but I'd like to see every prisoner working for their own support. Grow food, make clothes, be useful, be busy, be tired at the end of the day. I do like that education is offered to those who want to take classes.

How many of you believe that the American invention of time, as a form of punishment, is working? To me it just does not seem to be enough of a deterrent. It certainly does not seem to be working. The jails fill up faster than they can be built.

Brothwell states:

I have heard the converse of this argument that says if you make prison so harsh offenders will not re offend, this patently does not work, most criminals do not worry about being caught until it happens.


I agree that most don’t worry about getting caught. Why would they. Doing time is a joke to many. They even brag about it on the street. Many have it better inside than out. I’m not sure if making prison life more harsh would work. Perhaps a prototype should be tried to test the theory. Perhaps a facility where first time offenders would be sent. A facility that would be extremely harsh, but for short duration. Just to see how many would repeat offenses. Just a thought.

Lady Cop states:

I do not advocate abuse of any kind, and there is a duty to protect the guests of the state.


Nor do I. But it is funny how the criminal is viewed as the perpetrator until the door locks behind them. Now they are guest. Now they are viewed, by many, as being victims of the system. You will never hear anyone scream louder about their rights than an inmate. Funny, they did not worry about anyones rights, until the door locked behind them.

But keep doing the good job you are doingLady Cop. Full or not. Harsh enough or not. They do need to be locked away!

The so called "Short sharp shock" treatment was tried out over here a few years ago for young first time offenders. It was like a sort of boot camp. early morning runs, constant discipline etc. Closed down after a couple of years, some of the inmates actively enjoyed it and it also turned out much fitter criminals.

I have no idea what the answer is to this, I see amazing sentences handed down by US courts (99 years etc) but are the crime figures reducing.

I know of the shock treatment programs. But it only introduced the

inmates to tough, military style discipline. And like you said, Just made them more fit. Many thought it was a joke. Only went through the programs because it meant shorter sentence. The para military type program didn’t work. Perhaps another type would.

thankyou LWR! when i said "guests" i was being facetious. they are viewed as prisoners, inmates. but we are required to protect their rights, rightfully so. even when we want to smash them one! we can't be the thugs and brutes. care, custody and control are the bywords of our corrections systems. LWR wrote--Nor do I. But it is funny how the criminal is viewed as the perpetrator until the door locks behind them. Now they are guest. Now they are viewed, by many, as being victims of the system. You will never hear anyone scream louder about their rights than an inmate. Funny, they did not worry about anyones rights, until the door locked behind them.

But keep doing the good job you are doingLady Cop. Full or not. Harsh enough or not. They do need to be locked away!

I just don't know what the answer is. Our prisons are overflowing, our sentencing doesn't seem to be working. What should be done isn't being done. :-5 I just feel we have lean way to far in defense of the prisioner. Crimes comitted are never what they really are once they get in the court system. Lawyers have made it so darn hard to get a conviction that it almost works against the plantiff in some cases. JUST SO CONFUSING..

I like CB think crimes against children should have to most severe sentence be it death or life in prision. Our children are voiceless in the courts we must change this, they don't vote, so they are invisible.. It's up to us to change how THOSE PREDITORS WHO PREY ON OUR CHILDREN ARE TAKEN CARE OF ON THEIR FIRST OFFENSE. I FOR ONE DON'T BELIEVE THEY CAN EVER BE CURED, AND WILL DO IT AGAIN, AND AGAIN, AND AGAIN.. IT HAS HAPPENED OVER AND OVER AGAIN..

My nephew and some friends were stealing car radios and such out in Denver...Much to their surprise at 16 they were sent to Juvi. BUT 1 month out of their sentence they had to go to the prison and talk with the prisoners about things...eat with some of them and sit in cells by themselves..He was very moved and changed by this.. I wonder how many states use this scare tactic and what the stats are on it??

I am not saying my nephew changed over night but he is now married- has a son- and raises him in small town Iowa in hopes he never does the things that his daddy did.. I beleive that when our young people get involved in things - it is not always the parents fault..EX: home life, involvement...etc...but I do beleive it is a HUGE -HUGE part...

Capt! Great answer....they are perverts and I beleive they can NOT be rehabbed into a noraml way of life... Just dispose of them.!

I think from previous posts that most people here know how I feel about our so called justice system. Criminals have more rights than the victims. It's insane that prisoners have health care, and can get an education while we have law abiding citizens doing without. God forbid prisoners don't have air conditioning while some of us sweat our butts off! When you have a person that the cops know well, the judge knows well, it's time to stop putting them back into society. I know a guy that had like 13 DUI's before he did any prison time. How many lives were at risk all 13 times? I know a lady who killed a guy while drinking and driving. She hired a good lawyer and lost her license for less than 3 months. I'm sorry, but had it been my son, husband, etc. that was killed, I would have gone after not only her, but the judge that sentenced her. Read the newspaper. Look at some of the sentences handed down. It's nuts! :-5

Oh boy. Had to get me started LOL. I'd like to see stiffer punishment for dometic violence. Here in Ohio, I believe the law is that if the cops come and see evidence of domestic violence, they can press charges even if the victim doesn't want to. Too often that isn't done, and when it is, the person gets 60 days at the most. I think a lot of the time it is because the person (usually but not always is male) is usually the major financial support for the family. That's the only logic I can see in only giving him/her 60 days to think about what an idiot they are.