ForumGarden

I'm surprised this hasn't made it into the Garden yet.



http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/side2/5681283.html



http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2 ... anch/6946/



These people have been tried and convicted before going to court, at least on the local radio talk shows. The venom that's spewed even on the news broadcasts is just scary.

Good:-6

I think it is the issue of abuse that comes into question. Rape of under age girls, cruel punishment given the children and the wives. Done by the controlling male hierarchy.

If it's true that the original report was a hoax, none of the rest of the evidence will be admissable. How many children outside a compound are born to teenage moms, suffer abuse, etc? This is our society showing it's bigotry, linking polygamy with pedophilia.

April 23, 2008, 11:38PM

CHILDREN OF ELDORADO

Raid on compound triggered by hoax?

Calls to authorities came from phone owned by woman with a history of making false reports

By JANET ELLIOTT and GARY SCHARRER

Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle Austin Bureau



AUSTIN — The frantic, whispered calls that triggered the removal of more than 400 children from a West Texas polygamist sect came from a phone linked to a Colorado Springs woman with a long history of making false abuse reports, according to a court document unsealed Wednesday.



Two prepaid mobile phones that were used to make calls late last month to a domestic violence shelter in San Angelo had previously been used by Rozita Swinton in calls to abuse hot lines and authorities in Colorado and Washington, the affidavit said.



Swinton "is a known repeat victim who repeatedly reports sexual abuse with the Colorado Springs Police Department," the affidavit said.



The records also revealed that the 33-year-old pleaded guilty in June 2007 to false reporting and was placed on probation for one year. She was charged last week with misdemeanor false reporting to authorities in Colorado Springs, and is being investigated by the Texas Rangers in connection with the calls that prompted the April 3 raid of the Yearning for Zion Ranch in Eldorado.



"We are still examining evidence that was seized from her residence and do not expect that investigation to be completed for a while," said Texas Department of Public Safety spokeswoman Tela Mange.



Jim Harrington, director of the Texas Civil Rights Project, said the fact the state launched the raid on what appears to have been a hoax tip without checking it out makes a "sham" out of constitutional protections against wrongful searches.



"To me, this is either gross incompetence or this is a religious vendetta," Harrington said.



In calls that began March 29 to the San Angelo shelter, the caller claimed to be Sarah Barlow who was born in January 1992. She said she was pregnant, already had an infant and was the third wife of her 49-year-old husband.



The caller tearfully whispered that she was being held at the ranch against her will and that her husband beat her so severely, a rib broke. She expressed fear for her baby and a teenage sister who might soon be subjected to a similar fate.



Based on those calls, state law enforcement and child welfare authorities obtained a search warrant to enter the compound owned by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a breakaway Mormon sect that believes in polygamy for the men. Officials said they observed what they believed to be underage pregnant girls and began removing children and women from the ranch.



During days of searching, including a tense standoff before police entered the group's sacred temple, more than 400 children were taken away. They are now in state custody and being relocated to group homes around the state.



An initial arrest warrant was issued for the man named by the caller. But the man, who lives in Arizona, had been regularly reporting to his probation officer and there was no evidence he had lived at the ranch.



Randall Chapman, executive director of Texas Legal Services, said he believes state protective services "went over the bounds" but that the agency has "broad investigative authority" when it comes to allegations of child abuse or neglect.

Possible connection



Texas Rangers accompanied Colorado Springs police officers last week when they searched Swinton's apartment, where they found items indicating a possible connection between her and calls regarding the Eldorado compound.



Swinton, who works for an insurance office, is free on $10,000 bond. Her attorney, David Foley of Colorado Springs, said he could not discuss the allegations.



"There's a lot more to this than the public is getting. I think people would be surprised. Stay tuned," Foley said.



The eight-page affidavit paints a picture of a troubled woman who spent hours calling shelters pretending to be a hysterical teenager who had been sexually abused by male relatives and others. In 15 hours of calls to a Colorado Springs shelter, she claimed to be a 13-year-old named Dana who had been molested repeatedly by a local youth pastor.



Those calls prompted Colorado Springs police to look for the girl at a local high school.



In March, a shelter in Washington began getting calls from "April" about abuse by her father and uncle. The girl, however, refused to talk to law enforcement officers and ultimately said her "other personality" had gone to a safe house in Colorado. A callback number she left was linked to Swinton's home.



Meanwhile, one day after 111 older children were put on buses and sent to foster care placements around the state, child welfare authorities said Wednesday they would consider allowing the more than 40 nursing mothers that remain behind in San Angelo to remain with or near their babies.

Reacting to criticism



The assertion was a reversal of sorts for officials with the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services, who over the weekend said all children would be separated from their mothers and placed into foster care. That led to sharp criticism from the children's attorneys; and at an informal hearing on Wednesday, the judge overseeing the case, Barbara Walther, said she wanted the nursing babies to remain with their mothers.



The department has and will continue to work to keep older siblings together, though a spokesman for the department acknowledged that mix-ups occurred with the six busloads of children sent out Tuesday.



The agency found 16 residential foster home facilities that could take the children, none of which were at risk of losing their license or having it suspended, said Patrick Crimmins, a spokesman for the agency. None of the homes selected were under any kind of probation with the agency.



Some coming to area



Child Protective Services would not say when the rest of the children would be moved, but two Houston-area shelters continued preparing for them Wednesday.



When the children arrive at the Arrow Child & Family Ministries Retreat Center, just north of Porter in east Montgomery County, they will be part of a long-term care program, said Scott Lundy, vice president for foster care and residential services. The ministry is hiring 100 new staff members who will be specially trained.



"Their society is totally different. Their belief systems are different. Their diet is different. ... Nobody knows what these children are going to need," Lundy said.



The Jim H. Green Kidz Harbor in Brazoria County is preparing to house as many as 36 children. Area residents are bringing sheets, towels, toiletries and checks to the small city hall in Liverpool, said city secretary Judy Dunbar.

Accountable;845718 wrote: If it's true that the original report was a hoax, none of the rest of the evidence will be admissable. How many children outside a compound are born to teenage moms, suffer abuse, etc? This is our society showing it's bigotry, linking polygamy with pedophilia.


I don't understand how you mean that, Acc. I mean, bigotry toward polygamy as a religion or a lifestyle, sure, I understand that part but there *was* supposedly pedophilia in this compound, was there not? How is that bigotry?

RedGlitter;845722 wrote: I don't understand how you mean that, Acc. I mean, bigotry toward polygamy as a religion or a lifestyle, sure, I understand that part but there *was* supposedly pedophilia in this compound, was there not? How is that bigotry?
The belief was there long before the accusation, and extends to all polygamy, not just this sect. How many raids on non-polygamous neighborhoods are there to take children from teenage moms? My school would certainly be less crowded.

Accountable;845749 wrote: The belief was there long before the accusation, and extends to all polygamy, not just this sect. How many raids on non-polygamous neighborhoods are there to take children from teenage moms? My school would certainly be less crowded.


Ok, I see. Thanks.

So, this means that the state of Texas needs to immeidatly return the familys back to thier orignal locations and leave them alone.That's the way I see it, Jester. Some will say that we've done nothing, but I disagree. Every member of that family saw how seriously we take such accusations, so if anyone is being held against their will or raped as accused, it's far more likely someone will talk ... and soon.

It's become a witch hunt.

Officials probing possible abuse of boys in polygamous sect



By MICHELLE ROBERTS and APRIL CASTRO, Associated Press WritersThu May 1, 7:55 AM ET



Authorities investigating whether teen girls in a polygamist sect were forced into underage marriages and sex said they are also looking into possible abuse of young boys — allegations that drew a sharp rebuke by sect's members.



Carey Cockerell, the head of the state's Department of Family and Protective Services, told state lawmakers Wednesday that his agency was looking into whether young boys were abused based on "discussions with the boys" and journal entries.



In a written report, the agency said interviews and journal entries suggested young boys may have been sexually abused, but didn't elaborate.



Cockerell also said 41 of the 463 children seized from the Yearning For Zion Ranch in Eldorado had evidence of broken bones. Some of those children are "very young," he said.



After Cockerell's presentation to the Senate Health and Human Services Committee, he sent an aide from the lieutenant governor's office to tell reporters he would not make further comments.



Members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, the renegade Mormon sect that runs the ranch, countered that the state was deliberately misleading the public to cover up its own errors in the case.



A physician at the ranch, who is also a sect member, said most of the broken bones were from minor falls and that there was no pattern of abuse there.



The state took custody of all 463 children living at the ranch after an April 3 raid that was prompted by calls to a domestic abuse hot line. One of those minors gave birth Tuesday to a boy who will remain with his mother in a group foster-care facility.



The sweeping action in the custody case has raised concerns among civil liberties groups. Individual custody hearings are scheduled to be completed by June 5, but in the meantime, all the children are in foster facilities scattered around the state.



Before Wednesday's disclosure, the state had argued it should be allowed to keep the boys, not because they were abuse victims, but because they were being groomed to become adult perpetrators in the sect. Men in the sect take multiple wives, some of whom are allegedly minors.



After Cockerell's comments on broken bones, a briefing issued said, "We do not have X-rays or complete medical information on many children so it is too early to draw any conclusions based on this information, but it is cause for concern and something we'll continue to examine."



Sect spokesman Rod Parker called Cockerell's testimony "a deliberate effort to mislead the public" and said state officials were "trying to politically inoculate themselves from the consequences of this horrible tragedy."



"This is just an attempt to malign these people," he said.



Lloyd Barlow, the ranch's onsite physician, said he was caring for a number of FLDS children with broken or fractured bones at the time they were removed from the ranch.



"Probably over 90 percent of the injuries are forearm fractures from ground-level or low level falls," Barlow said. "I can also tell you that we don't live in a community where there is a pattern of abuse."



The state has said that nearly 60 percent of the 14- to 17-year-old girls in custody are pregnant or already have children. Many refused to take pregnancy tests, the agency said Wednesday.



Under Texas law, children under the age of 17 generally cannot consent to sex with an adult. A girl can get married with parental permission at 16, but the sect's girls are not believed to have legal marriages.



Church officials have denied any children were abused at the ranch and say the state's actions are a form of religious persecution. They also dispute the count of teen mothers, saying at least some are likely adults.

Cockerell told lawmakers the investigation has been difficult because members of the church have refused to cooperate. Parents coached children not to answer questions and children — even breast-feeding infants — were switched around to different mothers in what Cockerell called a coordinated effort to deceive.

Take any group of 10 kids ranging from infancy to 17. What are the odds that one will have broken a bone sometime in his/her life? I'd say pretty darn good.

Yes Acc, but 41 out of 463? I think that's a little unusual.

I do not agree with them reading the people's private journals.

If they abuse girls in the form of mind controlled sexual abuse, then what is to say they aren't doing something to the boys as well?

I do see your point and I keep arguing inside myself about this whole mess. On one hand their religious concept of multiple wivery with young girls is not legal; so I understand the search. On the other hand, who cares if what they're doing is legal or right or not? Are they really hurting anyone? I think they obviously are hurting the girls coming up in age.

About this business of kicking the boys out to leave room for old men, I am waiting for that to surface as a wives tale. I have never heard of that before and it doesn't sound right. They need boys/men in their community to make money.

RedGlitter;853983 wrote: Yes Acc, but 41 out of 463? I think that's a little unusual. It's 10% just like my example.



RedGlitter wrote: I do not agree with them reading the people's private journals.



If they abuse girls in the form of mind controlled sexual abuse, then what is to say they aren't doing something to the boys as well?and what is to say they were? Of course, first you have to prove the first 'if'.

RedGlitter wrote: I do see your point and I keep arguing inside myself about this whole mess. On one hand their religious concept of multiple wivery with young girls is not legal; so I understand the search. On the other hand, who cares if what they're doing is legal or right or not? Are they really hurting anyone? I think they obviously are hurting the girls coming up in age. The group doesn't seek legal marriage, only spiritual. That makes them shack-up partners which is not against the law. The statutory rape thing is a completely different matter. If I'm not mistaken, doctors are legally required to report such things and thus are liable.



RedGlitter wrote: About this business of kicking the boys out to leave room for old men, I am waiting for that to surface as a wives tale. I have never heard of that before and it doesn't sound right. They need boys/men in their community to make money.
It probably equates to a boy reaching 18 and being told "it's time to make your own way, son."

Accountable;854141 wrote:



The group doesn't seek legal marriage, only spiritual. That makes them shack-up partners which is not against the law. The statutory rape thing is a completely different matter. If I'm not mistaken, doctors are legally required to report such things and thus are liable.






All right, I think I see where you're coming from. They are (presumably) being persecuted for their religion which is not illegal instead of being looked over in view of the law which makes one tenet of their religion (the wivery) illegal. Is that right?

Red, the boys getting kicked out is true. There are several who have been kicked out of this group in their settlements in Utah and Arizona. Here's a Wiki link. But if you just google Lost Boys and FDLS you get tons of hits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Boys_of_Polygamy

I'm sorry I see their way of life wrong. Young girls should not be forced into "spiritual marriages" and have kids.

Thank you for the link, Sheryl.

RedGlitter;854174 wrote: All right, I think I see where you're coming from. They are (presumably) being persecuted for their religion which is not illegal instead of being looked over in view of the law which makes one tenet of their religion (the wivery) illegal. Is that right?
Right. That's the way I see it. No one has accused anyone of abusing boys or infants, yet they were taken into custody as well as the teenage moms. Have they arrested all the men? I don't recall reading about that.

Sheryl;854496 wrote: Red, the boys getting kicked out is true. There are several who have been kicked out of this group in their settlements in Utah and Arizona. Here's a Wiki link. But if you just google Lost Boys and FDLS you get tons of hits.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Boys_of_Polygamy



I'm sorry I see their way of life wrong. Young girls should not be forced into "spiritual marriages" and have kids.
The only blurb in that article about the El Dorado group is a link to another article of pure speculation & accusation based on other people who live hundreds of miles away. They may never have even met.

Accountable, the sects whether in Arizona, Texas, Colorado, or British Columbia are all linked. They have moved and set these places up in different areas.

I found this today.

http://www.childbrides.org/news.html

It's a bunch of editorials, and news links from different sources on the raids in Texas and info on the trial of the main guy Warren Jeffs from Utah/Arizona. I find the stories from the women who've escaped the sect interesting.

It's a mess for the state to sort out everything. The kids will be fine. They'll be ostracized by public schools etc...but no more than by being in such an upbringing and having limited choices in life, if and when they had got wind of their isolation. The general feel of the whole news report strikes me as corruption. I've have felt this must be a bunch of perverted men and closet lesbians (just my initial reaction, in the case of women who would live in this environment). Good! I hope I get a reaction from my opinions.

The young adult women have no say here in my view. They will go along with their elders. The question I have regards why the mainstream Mormon religious group in Utah have said nothing. Don't they have something to say about what is happening in the name of the Latter Day Saints? Why don't they speak out against such practices? Maybe there has been a statement made, I've just not heard it? Maybe polygamy is accepted way of life in the mainstream LDS life?

Erin

No, it's not Erin. I have Mormon family and they make it clear that the Church of LDS and the polig Mormons are not the same. It's an embarrassment to them. As to why they don't speak out more often I don't know.

RedGlitter;855149 wrote: No, it's not Erin. I have Mormon family and they make it clear that the Church of LDS and the polig Mormons are not the same. It's an embarrassment to them. As to why they don't speak out more often I don't know.


Alright. I haven't known many Mormons in depth, though those with this background I've met have always been compassionate and given me sincere attention and they seemed to practice what they preached. That's why I said this. It's a strange, unfamiliar religion to me in many respects, though I have the Book of the Mormon (?) on my bookshelf (someone gave it to me). I'm fascinated by certain visions they had. Take that with a grain of salt because I'm intrigued by facets of many different faiths.

The leaders of the faith need to make a statement regarding this scandal imo so I can feel better :-2

I have seen and read a couple interviews with the mothers of these kids and it strikes me odd that they will not answer any questions about polygamy or child brides. The flat out refuse to say yes or nay about the issue. And that's just fishy in my mind.

Sheryl;855125 wrote: Accountable, the sects whether in Arizona, Texas, Colorado, or British Columbia are all linked. They have moved and set these places up in different areas.



I found this today.



http://www.childbrides.org/news.html



It's a bunch of editorials, and news links from different sources on the raids in Texas and info on the trial of the main guy Warren Jeffs from Utah/Arizona. I find the stories from the women who've escaped the sect interesting.I visited a Southern Baptist church in upstate New York. The black preacher was very charismatic, often referring to his recent bypass surgery and how the doctor told him to take it easy ... BUT WHO CAN TAKE IT EASY WHEN THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST IS IN 'IM? Then he did a James Brown bit where he's bending over looking tired and a deacon put a white cape on his shoulders; he throws off his cape and preaches another ten minutes.



That church was linked to the Southern Baptist churches I attended back in Louisiana, but I never saw anything like that before. Isn't it possible, just possible, that this group has decided not to treat their boys that way? Especially since the only evidence that they practice such a thing is that they are 'linked' to others that do.



Sheryl;855167 wrote: I have seen and read a couple interviews with the mothers of these kids and it strikes me odd that they will not answer any questions about polygamy or child brides. The flat out refuse to say yes or nay about the issue. And that's just fishy in my mind.Not odd at all. You just took my kids away and told me anything I say can & will be used against me. I ain't sayin ****.

watermark;855153 wrote: Alright. I haven't known many Mormons in depth, though those with this background I've met have always been compassionate and given me sincere attention and they seemed to practice what they preached. That's why I said this. It's a strange, unfamiliar religion to me in many respects, though I have the Book of the Mormon (?) on my bookshelf (someone gave it to me). I'm fascinated by certain visions they had. Take that with a grain of salt because I'm intrigued by facets of many different faiths.

The leaders of the faith need to make a statement regarding this scandal imo so I can feel better :-2


In the Mormons defense, why should they have to explain themselves to seperate themselves from some cult? I think it's best they stay out of it to totally keep themselves seperate from them. Why feed into the media? I think they're embarassed and frustrated that the general uneducated public associates them with the cult. How many times do they have to defend themselves when they've done nothing wrong?

Redtail;855389 wrote: In the Mormons defense, why should they have to explain themselves to seperate themselves from some cult? I think it's best they stay out of it to totally keep themselves seperate from them. Why feed into the media? I think they're embarassed and frustrated that the general uneducated public associates them with the cult. How many times do they have to defend themselves when they've done nothing wrong?
Yup yup!! :yh_clap



Then again, their 'newer testament' written by Joseph Smith (I think that was his name) either supported or even dictated plygamy, if I remember right. Maybe we should ask for them to defend disobeying one of the tenants of their own religion. :yh_think

Accountable;855419 wrote: Yup yup!! :yh_clap



Then again, their 'newer testament' written by Joseph Smith (I think that was his name) either supported or even dictated plygamy, if I remember right. Maybe we should ask for them to defend disobeying one of the tenants of their own religion. :yh_think


and maybe everyone should practice their own religion and mind their own business unless children or others are in harms way. hmmmmmm, what a concept.

Well...brainwashing young girls and women and forcing them into having sex when they're below consent is a form of abuse. I don't see that in the context, the state is doing anything wrong.

RedGlitter;855615 wrote: Well...brainwashing young girls and women and forcing them into having sex when they're below consent is a form of abuse. I don't see that in the context, the state is doing anything wrong.
The brainwashing bit is still a question in my mind, and the abuse is far easier to prove. My issue is with taking all the kids when only a few are pregnant or mothers (remember the initial complaint) and no one near the place is saying anything about abusing infants or boys.

I know little to no facts on this subject, but..........(haha, they say anything after but is bulls&$^) I'm guessing they have to check everyone out when such a disturbing accusation arises..........I'm also guessing a bit of overzealous law enforcement power that be's are having a field day.

Accountable;855622 wrote: The brainwashing bit is still a question in my mind, and the abuse is far easier to prove. My issue is with taking all the kids when only a few are pregnant or mothers (remember the initial complaint) and no one near the place is saying anything about abusing infants or boys.


I understand that point, but I think they might be erring on the side of caution. I'm not saying they haven't been a bit overzealous and I am not convinced that sticking them in foster care is a great idea, even if what their parents are doing is wrong. A kid needs his mother. His father too but I doubt that fathers play much of a role in these kids' lives although I could be wrong on that.

RedGlitter;855690 wrote: I understand that point, but I think they might be erring on the side of caution. I'm not saying they haven't been a bit overzealous and I am not convinced that sticking them in foster care is a great idea, even if what their parents are doing is wrong. A kid needs his mother. His father too but I doubt that fathers play much of a role in these kids' lives although I could be wrong on that.
Agreed

Accountable;855319 wrote: I visited a Southern Baptist church in upstate New York. The black preacher was very charismatic, often referring to his recent bypass surgery and how the doctor told him to take it easy ... BUT WHO CAN TAKE IT EASY WHEN THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST IS IN 'IM? Then he did a James Brown bit where he's bending over looking tired and a deacon put a white cape on his shoulders; he throws off his cape and preaches another ten minutes.



That church was linked to the Southern Baptist churches I attended back in Louisiana, but I never saw anything like that before. Isn't it possible, just possible, that this group has decided not to treat their boys that way? Especially since the only evidence that they practice such a thing is that they are 'linked' to others that do.



Not odd at all. You just took my kids away and told me anything I say can & will be used against me. I ain't sayin ****.


The ranch in El Dorado consisted of folks who were handpicked for their loyalty to this Warren Jeffs leader/prophet whatever he is. They are not just a association of churches, but all related by blood.

The bigoted persecution continues, despite lack of evidence.

From the Independent: The Third Court of Appeals, acting on a suit brought by lawyers on behalf of 38 mothers, said in a unanimous decision that the state did not have the evidence of ongoing sexual abuse necessary to justify the summary removal of the children and the separation from their mothers.



From the Associated Press: An appellate court decision upended the custody case that sent more than 440 children from a polygamist sect's ranch into foster care, but it's not clear whether the children might soon return home.



The Third Court of Appeals in Austin said the state failed to show the youngsters were in any immediate danger, the only grounds under Texas law for taking children from their parents without court action.



Texas District Judge Barbara Walther now has 10 days to release the youngsters from custody, but the state could appeal to the Texas Supreme Court and keep the children from immediately going back to their parents.

In fact, they are trying to go back in, despite having no right to do so! http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S= ... v=menu73_2



Every official involved in this charade should be tossed out on their asses, and the children should be returned to their parents.

KXAN, Austin wrote:

CPS said it had received a tip from eyewitnesses and over the phone that there were five children, both boys and girls, still at the ranch.



A KXAN Austin News crew was allowed inside the West Texas ranch Wednesday afternoon. FLDS spokesman Willie Jessop told KXAN Austin News' Jenny Hoff he could not guarantee she would see any children inside the ranch.



Jessop did not say who made the call.



CPS is not allowed inside the ranch, because FLDS officials told them the children they are looking for do not fit the description of anyone inside. Officials also said CPS would need a search warrant and the armored tanks they had before in order to come inside the ranch, again.



Jessop said CPS wants to return to investigate the ranch but not when the media is around.

Yeh, I wonder why. :yh_frustr

Texas officials fear polygamist sect might flee

By JIM VERTUNO – 2 hours ago

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — Child welfare authorities are warning that members of a polygamist sect could flee Texas jurisdiction now that a court has found the state's removal of their children was improper.

Texas Child Protective Services lawyers argued Tuesday that if the custody orders are rescinded, parents could take the children out of the state and "no Texas court would have any authority to enter any orders to protect these children."

An appeals court ruled last week that the state failed to show that the youngsters were in any immediate danger, the only grounds under Texas law for taking children from their parents without court action.

If the children aren't in immediate danger, WHAT ARE CPS UNABLE TO PROTECT THEM FROM???



~~~~~~~~~~~~



I'm surprised and disappointed that Forum Garden isn't the least bit interested in the government's overreaching their boundaries. I guess anything's fair game since these people aren't ordinary?

Someone mentioned brainwashing. Perhaps the government, with generous help from the news media, has managed to brainwash, or otherwise confuse, enough of the public to be blind to what is truly happening here.

Accountable;876164 wrote: Texas officials fear polygamist sect might flee

By JIM VERTUNO – 2 hours ago

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — Child welfare authorities are warning that members of a polygamist sect could flee Texas jurisdiction now that a court has found the state's removal of their children was improper.

Texas Child Protective Services lawyers argued Tuesday that if the custody orders are rescinded, parents could take the children out of the state and "no Texas court would have any authority to enter any orders to protect these children."

An appeals court ruled last week that the state failed to show that the youngsters were in any immediate danger, the only grounds under Texas law for taking children from their parents without court action.

If the children aren't in immediate danger, WHAT ARE CPS UNABLE TO PROTECT THEM FROM???



~~~~~~~~~~~~



I'm surprised and disappointed that Forum Garden isn't the least bit interested in the government's overreaching their boundaries. I guess anything's fair game since these people aren't ordinary?


Is it the government that's taking the action or the equivalent of our Social Services?

Bryn Mawr;876605 wrote: Is it the government that's taking the action or the equivalent of our Social Services?
Social Services - Child Protective Services here - is an arm of the government.

Accountable;876766 wrote: Social Services - Child Protective Services here - is an arm of the government.


OK - here they are effectively autonomous.

Bryn Mawr;876769 wrote: OK - here they are effectively autonomous.
That's truly dangerous. I would never want an autonomous body with access to my home and children.

No Child Left Behind

Jacob Sullum

Wednesday, May 28, 2008





The week before a state appeals court condemned the wholesale removal of children from the Yearning for Zion Ranch in Eldorado, a spokesman for Texas Child Protective Services (CPS) insisted the case "is not about religion." If you believe that, you may also believe that a community of hundreds is a single household, or that a 27-year-old is younger than 18, to cite just a couple of the whoppers CPS has told in the last two months.



To justify seizing more than 450 children from the ranch, which is owned by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (FLDS), CPS argued that the church's teachings are inherently abusive. CPS did not bother to present evidence that particular children were in immediate physical danger, as required by state law, because it thought membership in the polygamous sect was enough to make parents unfit.



CPS asserted that a "pervasive belief system" at the ranch, which it raided on April 3 in response to what seems to have been a fictitious abuse report, encouraged underage marriage. "They're living under an umbrella of belief that having children at a young age is a blessing," the lead investigator testified. "Therefore any child in that environment would not be safe."



But as the appeals court noted, "The existence of the FLDS belief system as described by the [state's] witnesses, by itself, does not put children of FLDS parents in physical danger. It is the imposition of certain alleged tenets of that system on specific individuals that may put them in physical danger."



CPS claimed 31 underage girls at the ranch were pregnant or mothers. It recently conceded that at least 15 of them are in fact adults, ranging in age from 18 to 27, while a 14-year-old on the list is not pregnant and has no children. AP reports, "more mothers listed as underage are likely to be reclassified as adults."



In any case, as the appeals court noted, "teenage pregnancy, by itself, is not a reason to remove children from their home and parents." In Texas, the minimum age for marriage with parental consent is 16 (raised from 14 in 2005 with the FLDS in mind), and "there was no evidence regarding the marital status of these girls when they became pregnant or the circumstances under which they became pregnant."



By the state's current count, underage mothers represent no more than 3 percent of the children it seized. Even if the other girls who had reached puberty were likely to be married off soon (a matter of dispute), there was no evidence that the boys or the prepubescent girls were in danger of abuse.



CPS glossed over the lack of evidence by treating the entire 1,700-acre ranch as a single household. If there had been even one instance of abuse in the community, it argued, no child should be left there. This assumption of collective guilt was not only contrary to law; it was contradicted by the state's own witnesses, who conceded that FLDS members, only some of whom practice polygamy, disagree about the appropriate age for marriage.



The first parents to be reunited with their children after the appeals court's ruling, which CPS has asked the Texas Supreme Court to reverse, were Joseph and Lori Jessop, both EMTs in their 20s. The monogamous couple's children -- two boys and a girl, ages 1, 2, and 4 -- became ill during their state-imposed separation and had to be hospitalized.



When they were released, CPS caseworkers forcibly pulled the two older children from their mother. Until a judge intervened, CPS threatened to take the youngest child as well, saying nursing babies older than 12 months were not allowed to remain with their mothers.

Not surprisingly, the Jessops' older children are anxious these days, waking up repeatedly during the night and displaying regressive behavior. There was never any evidence that their parents abused them, but there's plenty that the state did.

Here's the latest. Anyone disappointed?

Texas Court Rules Polygamy Children Should Be Returned, AP Says

By Ryan Flinn

May 29 (Bloomberg) -- The Texas Supreme Court ruled today that children taken from a polygamist sect should be returned to their parents, the Associated Press reported.

State Child Protective Services failed to show that the more than 400 children were in immediate danger, the court said, affirming a ruling last week by a lower court, according to AP.

The children were removed from the Yearning For Zion Ranch about two months ago by child-welfare officials who said the youths were being forced into underage marriage and sex, AP said.

Officials can remove children from their homes only if they are in immediate danger, which the hearing last month didn't show, the court said, according to AP.

Jester;878288 wrote: http://www.khou.com/news/state/stories/ ... 6bb76.html











Very interesting, I'd sue the pants off the Texas CPS... The state court says return the children basicly agreeing that they took the children illegally, and Texas CPS sets conditions on the release of the children.



I'd say NO DEAL, give me back my child without dictated circumstances!
I can't imagine facing a CPS kidnapper trying to extort my parental rights in exchange for my kids - and NOT getting violent ... extremely violent.