ForumGarden

iraqbodycount.org , a website begun in 2003 to track the number of violent civilian deaths related to the invasion and occupation of Iraq continues its vigilance.

From an article on the site:

It is the ‘price to pay’, the ‘sacrifice’ that has to be made as we fight terrorism, the ‘cost’ of this war against evil forces. That is what we say to justify these killings. But those of us who speak of this price to be paid, this sacrifice to be made, do not pay this price, do not make this sacrifice. Our own country is not being destroyed, attacked, occupied. Our own children are not being blown up, our civilians are not becoming homeless by the millions. Those who speak of the necessity of this sacrifice, would they be prepared to pay such a price? In their own country? With the blood of their own families?

How much easier it is to sacrifice others, to let others pay with their lives. The value of those lives is hardly high enough to trouble us. It is nothing our military cannot afford. Here is an example:

“A fisherman was fishing in the Tigris river in the early morning, when a Coalition Forces (CF) helicopter flew over and shone a spotlight on him. The fisherman began to shout in English, ‘Fish! Fish!’ while pointing to his catch. A patrol of Humvees arrived, and as the deceased bent down to turn off the boat’s motor, CF shot and killed him. CF did not secure the boat, which drifted off and was never retrieved. Compensation for death denied due to combat exemption; compensation for boat granted: $3,500 US.

Civilians are reduced to a payout with condolences. There is a set price for the value of an Iraqi life... I can't imagine the same conditions in Canada. My kid would be worth about $1,500 USD. Sorry, that's not enough.

Without going into whether or not I agree with the war in Iraq, let me say this...

A majority of civilian casualties are caused by insurgents. Insurgents use women, children and the mentally handicapped to walk bombs into places of worship, market places and anywhere else a large group of people are congregated.

Should we pull all the allied troops out? Maybe. Maybe not. Do you think that pulling them out will stop the insurgent violence?

LilacDragon, you just don't recognize the concept of criminal responsibility. None of these deaths would have happened save for the criminal actions and deliberate twisting and denial of evidence by the White House administration. Every death is at their door, not at anyone else's.

LilacDragon;828294 wrote:

A majority of civilian casualties are caused by insurgents. Insurgents use women, children and the mentally handicapped to walk bombs into places of worship, market places and anywhere else a large group of people are congregated.


That hardly describes the following:

The US Army paid $7,500 to two children whose mother they killed inside a taxi that ran a checkpoint — both children were also in the taxi, and were shot and injured; they also paid $6,000 for killing a child looking out of the window, while a raid was on-going in the house across the street. They refused, as they do in the majority of cases, to compensate the child whose father they killed as he drove home, but agreed to make a ‘condolence payment’ of $1,500. More recently, the US military is reported to have paid $2,500 to each family of the three men they killed near Abu Lukah, as they guarded their village.



All these deaths are documented. Your vision of the insurgents being responsible for all the death is just whitewashing. Look how the US responded to the loss of 3000 people in New York. Iraq civilian body count is now at 82 000 -90 000 civilian lives. How do you think they feel? Would the US be thanking Iraq if the tables were turned? This war is generating more hatred and more terrorists by the minute. A child who sees its parent shot by US military is not likely to be a friend to America as an adult. We are building a legacy of hate.

spot;828301 wrote: LilacDragon, you just don't recognize the concept of criminal responsibility. None of these deaths would have happened save for the criminal actions and deliberate twisting and denial of evidence by the White House administration. Every death is at their door, not at anyone else's.


You cannot excuse the actions of Tony Blair and the British Parliament so easily - they must share the blame.

Groups of extremists have been blowing crowds of people up for years - long before the current U.S. administration took office.

Like I said, I am not going to debate the war in Iraq.

Bryn Mawr;828330 wrote: You cannot excuse the actions of Tony Blair and the British Parliament so easily - they must share the blame.


I'm quite sure that Tony Blair will face trial in the Hague within the next ten years along with half his Cabinet advisers. Parliament accepted the word of the Cabinet. Given the integrity of previous Cabinets that's not unreasonable. I can't see that will happen again given the lying that took place over Iraq.

Someone will issue an international arrest warrant and the pack of cards will crumble.

The equivalent action in the USA has to be domestic, though I note that war criminals like Henry Kissinger don't travel abroad any longer.

LilacDragon;828338 wrote: Like I said, I am not going to debate the war in Iraq.What do you think the thread's about?