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I'm just sickened by this. One of the pioneers of Depo-Provera, which I've stated many times is one of the worst new poisons in the pharmaceutical market, has written a book explaining why women should take steps to spare themselves from the "affliction" of menstruating. Of course the solution is to take his drug, which will either eliminate bleeding or cause excessive bleeding. Roll your dice. They only tell you about the cessation of periods when they sell it to you.

Aside from just another rant about how terrible depo-provera is and how I believe it will severely affect our children when they reach middle age, I'd like to say...

Please don't buy this book! Is Menstruation Obsolete?

You can read about it and this crazyman's ideas here. I want to hear your thoughts on the matter. How far will we go to alter ourselves with the idea that we are improving on nature?

Why do women hate themselves so much that they take these drugs?

I'm curious as to why this MAN cares.

I read 3/4 of the article. This is not natural, and I am sure that there would be some side effects down the road. Every drug has some sort of a side effect. Why women would want to take chances with their body like this is beyond comprehension.

What happens if you want to conceive a child? How can you tell whether you are ovulating? It just seems unnatural to not menstrate. Even though I hate it and who doesn't.

Currently, doctors are refusing to document the myriad of side effects from depo-provera so they are "unfounded" at the moment. Stories include sever depression, drastic weight gain, muscle pain that can reach debilitating levels, endless bleeding or periods that don't return even years after stopping the drug, migraine type headaches...

This man seems to care more about making a name for himself in medical history than in supporting the health of women. He's dangerous.

Women reporting unofficial symptoms will be told that depo-provera can not be the cause.

I have no idea why doctors are going along with this. Eventually women will be designated into another category, like fibromyalgia, or just told there is nothing wrong with them and it's all in their head. Likely put on anti-depressants.

I read the article, anyone who is promoting his own medication in his book, is very suspect of falsifying the statistics to prove his point.

(and the point that he is a man, never had a menstrual cycle, eyc. is ludicious that he should know what is best for women's health)

Look at the current administration in this country who think they know what's best for women, ie. - family planning cuts, trying to curtail Title X, you name it they've screwed it up as far as women are concerned.

What is Title X?

Oops, Title IX? IDK, the one where women & girls can play sports in school and college.

:wah: Oh, I wasn't thinking Roman numerals.............

I was on the depo shot for about a year. I went from weighing 135 to 190 in about 6 months time. I bled every two weeks for the first 6 months. My doctor wanted to put me on the pill along with the shot to regulate the bleeding. I became a horrid B*TCH. When I finally went off the shot it was 18 months before I had a period.

I do not recommend it to anyone.

That is horrible!

Wow Sheryl, what a horrible thing to go through!!! I hate having my period, but it is the way we are created, and to try to alter it by drugs, is un-natural in my opinion.

And what does a man know about having a period other than living with a woman that has to go through it!:mad:

koan;815701 wrote:

Why do women hate themselves so much that they take these drugs?


I would approach this from a different angle - how can a doctor prescribe, indeed, how can anyone sell a drug for which, apparently, no long term studies have been carried out?

This goes against all established medical and legal practice.

Bryn Mawr;816082 wrote: I would approach this from a different angle - how can a doctor prescribe, indeed, how can anyone sell a drug for which, apparently, no long term studies have been carried out?

This goes against all established medical and legal practice.


Yes it is evil and wrong on so many levels.

Bryn. I've been arguing that point for, what?

Two years?

:-5

JacksDad;816122 wrote: Yes it is evil and wrong on so many levels.

Bryn. I've been arguing that point for, what?

Two years?

:-5


Sadly, this is the first I've heard of it but I would agree, this appears to be highly unethical and against all of the safeguards that the government should be enforcing.

Menstruation







la la la la la la la

Nomad;816144 wrote: Menstruation







la la la la la la la


Good, err, point there Nomad.

I ask why they hate themselves because I've read all the horror stories that women who've taken the drug have written and spattered throughout are women who are going through hell but won't go off it because they don't want their period back. Give them the benefits and tell them how to suppress the symptoms of toxification...

Lunatic.

I have my own horror stories from both pills and depo-provera. Will write it soon.

This thread was started to confront the nightmare of doctors failing their prime directive of "first do no harm." I have no problem with seeing how modern medicine has saved lives... not necessarily always made them better, but they've held up in emergency situations. There are certainly areas and aspects of modern medicine that I give an F for both effort and results.

My interest in alternative medicine began when I was 20. I became seriously ill from a combination of birth control pills, antibiotics for throat problems, and poor diet. When I went to my doctor to tell him that I had a candida albicans problem he informed me, word for word "there is no such thing" and refused to discuss it.

Since then, doctors readily admit that probiotics will reduce the need for antibiotics in many circumstances and that that they are extremely advantageous after taking antibiotics. They will not admit that birth control pills have any contributing factor to candida problems.

I took depo-provera about three years ago on the advise of a doctor who would not prescribe pills because I was too old. He was very excited that I had the opportunity to stop menstruating as a side effect. I asked him curiously why he thought that was a good thing but agreed to try it so I knew what this new craze was all about. I healed from the pill so I could heal whatever this new crap did to me too. Wrong. Oh, so wrong. Even with my knowledge of cleansing, using organics and herbs and all the rebalancing techniques, I'm still recovering three years later.

I bled for about 10 months almost non stop. I only had two shots. I took the second because the doctor said the side effects would go away after the second one. He was wrong. I suffered from building depression and panic attacks that were debilitating enough that I didn't want to leave my house much of the time. I didn't gain weight but... I never do. I felt mentally out of control in my life. With the growing panic attacks and struggle to stay positive, the slightest event could send me into a rage. The world was a bit like the start of an acid trip. Things were happening and I had a sense that I was being swept up in it all instead of participating. The recovery has taken about a year before I felt safe and secure again, two years before I didn't feel like I was on the verge of having everything fall apart, and now on the third year I feel like I'm almost balancing out my body systems again.

Damn them.

I don't know who is pushing this thing but until I see the reports being validated and reported to people BEFORE they take this drug I'm not going to let it go. Pills are bad for women. Depo-provera might just destroy women.

That is absolutely awful, Koan. You have my sympathy!! And let's by all means try and stop this criminal stupidity.

I'd like to extend the action to protect all the kids who are on heavy drug doses for ADD etc. Taking them off fast food, food colourings, sugar and introducing some of them to exercise and fresh air would probably fix them without any side effects.

Also, let's dump the idea that giving out antidepressants like candy is somehow helpful for everyone. There may be a few genuine cases where brain chemistry can only be sorted chemically, but geesch.. You're sad, you find out why, and deal with it. You suffer tragedy, you mourn and grieve, and slowly start to live again. Chemicals dont' bring back a loved one, or mend your job or domestic problems. They in fact diminish your ability to confront and deal with the slings and arrows of life.

Obviously, I too am in rant mode. More power to all our arms!!!

Yay!

Thank you, AP. I want outrage, I want people talking about it and warning their children. With birth control, I'd much rather help my daughter raise an unplanned child than watch her destroy her health with birth control chemicals. I'd much rather put the effort into finding alternative remedies than feed her drugs for ADD or depression.

A blanket coalition.... hmmm. We need a good name for it that covers all "dumping bin" diagnoses and unnecessary medication. I'll start something. The coalition can always be merged with another if we find someone who's more established in the same cause.

Wow koan, that is awful. The effects this drug had on your system is horrible. I am learning alot from this thread, after reading Sheryl's and your story.

Just found a wonderfully informative story of another woman's struggle to recover from depo here

She's managed to uncover some of the reasons it does all these terrible things. Knowing that you've been poisoned is only the start of the battle. Trying to figure out what the poison did is pretty much an essential component of healing properly.

Well, I will certainly inform my daughter about this Depo junk. And I hope Sheryl & Koan are both doing better since going off it. I had no idea that the pill was also dangerous. I had my tubes tied instead, but I also have 4 kids and didn't want to do the pill or anything else and condoms are way too uncomfortable.

Have to present the other side of the coin.



Depo isn't for everybody but it's not the anti-Christ, either.



I know a woman (;)) who took birth control pills for 33 years. A

couple of breaks in the early 70's because that is what they suggested

back then. Towards the end of that time, a Depo shot with ZERO side

effects. Also about 2 years on a pill-a-day sched, no periods. Periods

resumed both a few months after the Depo shot and shortly after

stopping the pill. About a year and a half of toughing it out with

menopause, then recently starting HRT with EXCELLENT results.



Sooooo, it can happen and I think does more often than the reverse.

Whether you have to deal with less hardy genetics or a less than stellar

performance by an MD, that's too bad. But all things considered, I

think the medical community is on the right track with what they've

done or attempted to do for quite some time now.



Every woman has to keep herself well informed and weigh the risks

versus benefits of anything she decides to do. But stopping periods

isn't a bad thing at all. The health positives might just be a lot

more than the negatives.



:-6

There are acceptable risks in percentages of effectiveness. Depo Provera does not meet the acceptable risks. The only reason it's not apparent is that doctors are not documenting the side effects when they are reported.

I have no problem having a period each month. When it is shorter than expected I become concerned. Our bodies do things for a reason whether we like it or not. Menstruation is not an illness.

In your opinion it's not an acceptable risk. My opinion is that it IS or

at least can be, for many, many women.



I saw quite a bit of info on side effects. There's patient information

sheets on just about everything, including birth control pills. Granted

some of it is a "difficult" read but a lot isn't.



I don't know if you were referring to me with the "menstruation is not

an illness" but I never said/thought that it was.



There are plenty of things that are naturally occuring that it would

be very nice to live without. Viruses that have been irradicated or

nearly so for starters.



I'm glad the medical profession has worked to make women's lives

easier and more healthy than our ancestors had it. Why shouldn't

we? Lower the risks for SO MANY things.

valerie;817636 wrote: In your opinion it's not an acceptable risk. My opinion is that it IS or

at least can be, for many, many women.


wow. have you got access to the accurate stats? because the women complaining aren't being validated.



I saw quite a bit of info on side effects. There's patient information

sheets on just about everything, including birth control pills. Granted

some of it is a "difficult" read but a lot isn't.
The side effects of common concern are not listed on the sheets nor admitted to be related to drugs.



I don't know if you were referring to me with the "menstruation is not

an illness" but I never said/thought that it was.
I don't know if you read the article linked in the OP but the inventor of depo has written a book saying that menstruation is not natural and likens it to an illness.



There are plenty of things that are naturally occuring that it would

be very nice to live without. Viruses that have been irradicated or

nearly so for starters.
something that invades a body cannot be equated to a body's normal functions



I'm glad the medical profession has worked to make women's lives

easier and more healthy than our ancestors had it. Why shouldn't

we? Lower the risks for SO MANY things.
I'm glad we have doctors. I'm not glad we have pharmaceutical companies that care more about profits than health. What a great market... any woman that has a period every month. Convince us that it's not desirable or necessary and they'll make billions.

but the lining of the uterus thickens monthly in preperation for a fertilized egg so if one is not planning to have children/more children isn't it technically not necessary to menstruate? Nature does this for us anyway by putting us through menopause after our "child bearing" years.

I don't agree with anyone pushing drugs on any person for any reason but everyone should have the choice of what they want to do with their bodies.

No stats for an opinion. As to the women complaining they aren't being validated...

well I'll just have to say I hear what you're saying, so that is some validation

for you.



Don't know what info sheets you've seen (or NOT, as the case may be)

and maybe it's due to where you live, but the sheets here in the States

absolutely DO list side effects of common concern and absolutely DO

relate to the drugs. That's what they are for. I don't know how much

clearer they can be than: the use of this product may cause blood clots,

nausea... etc. etc. everything I think with a rate of one in 50,000

users.



So, your opinion something that invades a body can't be equated to

normal functions. I can equate it just fine, it's naturally occurring.

But also consider the appendix. Not an invader but we have the

capacity to remove it before it bursts on your cruise or your trek.

A good thing, IMO.



HAHA I don't need convincing that having periods is not desirable OR

necessary! Especially for someone like me who has KNOWN to a certainty

since about age 18 that she never wanted children of her own. Perhaps

there are those who aren't so sure and then birth control pills are a

very viable REVERSIBLE alternative.



Quite possibly one of the greatest drugs every invented (again, IMO)

is aspirin and look, look... the drug companies didn't get their mitts

on that one! YAY!!!



:-6

valerie;818362 wrote:



Quite possibly one of the greatest drugs every invented (again, IMO)

is aspirin and look, look... the drug companies didn't get their mitts

on that one! YAY!!!



:-6


(1996): "Each year, use of NSAIDs (Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs) accounts for an estimated 7,600 deaths and 76,000 hospitalizations in the United States." (NSAIDs include aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxen, diclofenac, ketoprofen, and tiaprofenic acid.)

Source: Robyn Tamblyn, PhD; Laeora Berkson, MD, MHPE, FRCPC; W. Dale Jauphinee, MD, FRCPC; David Gayton, MD, PhD, FRCPC; Roland Grad, MD, MSc; Allen Huang, MD, FRCPC; Lisa Isaac, PhD; Peter McLeod, MD, FRCPC; and Linda Snell, MD, MHPE, FRCPC, "Unnecessary Prescribing of NSAIDs and the Management of NSAID-Related Gastropathy in Medical Practice," Annals of Internal Medicine (Washington, DC: American College of Physicians, 1997), September 15, 1997, 127:429-438, from the web at http://www.acponline.org/journals/annal ... /nsaid.htm, last accessed Feb. 14, 2001, citing Fries, JF, "Assessing and understanding patient risk," Scandinavian Journal of Rheumatology Supplement, 1992;92:21-4.

source

I know, aspirin doesn't kill people. People with aspirin kill people.

Yay! found a site that lists the side effects that women are reporting on discussion sites.

Disadvantages & side effects

* Recent research has shown that Depo-Provera significantly decreases bone density in women, as compared with others in the same age group (see below). The manufacturer of Depo Provera does not advise prolonged use (longer than two years). This loss of BMD is of particular concern during adolescence and early adulthood, a critical period of bone accretion. It is unknown if use of Depo Provera by younger women will reduce peak bone mass and increase the risk for osteoporotic fracture in later life.

* Depo Provera is associated with increased risk of breast cancer, particularly in women under 35, and current or recent users.

* For some women, Depo-Provera may have a number of potentially intolerable side effects, including loss of interest in sexual activity, infertility, severe headaches, constant bleeding (metrorrhagia), weight gain, panic attacks, muscle pain, heart palpitations, pain during sex, acne, irregular menstrual bleeding, abdominal cramps, dizziness, weakness or fatigue, leg cramps, nausea, vaginal discharge or irritation, breast swelling and tenderness, bloating, swelling of the hands or feet, backache, depression,insomnia, pelvic pain, no hair growth or excessive hair loss, rash, hot flashes,joint pain, convulsions, jaundice, urinary tract infections, allergic reactions, fainting, paralysis, deep vein thrombosis, and pulmonary embolus.

* Return to fertility may be slow. Fifty percent of women may be able to conceive in about 10 months from the last injection, but fertility may be totally suppressed in some women for up to 18 months or more.

* Depo is not immediately reversible. In the case of intolerable side effects, they must be endured for three months or more.

* Infants born to women exposed to Depo during pregnancy in one study had an 80% greater chance of dying in the first year of life.

* A study of 819 women in one city found an association between using Depo-Provera and higher incidence of chlamydia and gonorrhea.

* Depo Provera may simultaneously increase susceptibility to the herpesvirus and decrease immune response to the herpesvirus.

* Depo Provera exacerbates glutamate excitotoxicity, which may render users more vulnerable to "neurodegenerative insult"--a greater likelihood of such diseases as fibromyalgia.

* One reason for people not choosing this method of contraception is hypodermic needle phobia.

Black box warning

While it has long been known that Depo-Provera causes bone loss, it has recently been discovered that the osteoporotic effects of the injection grow worse the longer Depo-Provera is administered, last long after the injections are stopped, and may be irreversible. For this reason, on November 17, 2004 the United States Food and Drug Administration and Pfizer agreed to put a "black box warning" on Depo-Provera's label.

However, the WHO (World Health organisation)-- which provided Depo-Provera to developing countries when the US FDA refused to approve it for safety reasons pertaining to breast cancer--advises that the use of Depo Provera should not be restricted. One cohort study has shown that BMD loss may be reversible within 30 months of discontinuation of DMPA. At least one of the authors of the study, AZ Lacroix, is a consultant for Pfizer. The School of Public Health at the University of Washington, where the study was conducted, receives financial support from Pfizer. And Pfizer continues to advise in the Depo product insert that bone loss caused by Depo Provera may not be reversible.

Maybe the bolded parts have made the insert now.

I'm looking, when I can, for the site that has all the horror stories about depo-provera but here's the first site I came across when trying to validate my own experiences. It has a few rave reviews spattered in there but primarily you'll find a huge number of women who's lives have been horrifically altered.

askapatient

OOOH!! Tough crowd! Wants an effective drug with no side effects or

deaths for anybody!! Good luck with THAT! :yh_bigsmi



Let's see... 7,600 deaths between 6 listed drugs. And I would venture

to guess ibuprofen might have more of a percentage than the aspirin.

In any case, I'm very sorry for those deaths but I would bet aspirin

at least has saved many more lives than the reverse.



Quick, everybody, quit drinking water!! People have died from it!

valerie;818935 wrote: OOOH!! Tough crowd! Wants an effective drug with no side effects or

deaths for anybody!! Good luck with THAT! :yh_bigsmi



Let's see... 7,600 deaths between 6 listed drugs. And I would venture

to guess ibuprofen might have more of a percentage than the aspirin.

In any case, I'm very sorry for those deaths but I would bet aspirin

at least has saved many more lives than the reverse.



Quick, everybody, quit drinking water!! People have died from it!


Koan is trying to raise legitimate concerns - taking the p!ss helps nobody.

Many people, including me, want effective drugs with limited or no side effects but, at the very least, most people demand full disclosure of all possible side effects for any drug made available to the public with stringent control over the use of those drugs with known severe side effects. This does not appear to be happening in this case.

BTW - I'd suggest that it's the Paracetamol, not the Ibuprofen, that's responsible for the majority of the deaths.

I didn't see paracetamol (known to me as Tylenol) in the drug list koan

posted. Unless it's on there under another name, in any case, yes,

it probably is a greater cause of death. We've had one right here on this

board.



Please don't tell me how to post. It's enough of an insult that you

infer that *I* wouldn't want drugs with fewer side effects.



In any case, as I said in an earlier post, it is my very personal and

first-hand experience that these drugs DO have full disclosure of

all side effects. I've seen the info sheets. I've listened to my MD.

valerie;822281 wrote: I didn't see paracetamol (known to me as Tylenol) in the drug list koan

posted. Unless it's on there under another name, in any case, yes,

it probably is a greater cause of death. We've had one right here on this

board.



Please don't tell me how to post. It's enough of an insult that you

infer that *I* wouldn't want drugs with fewer side effects.



In any case, as I said in an earlier post, it is my very personal and

first-hand experience that these drugs DO have full disclosure of

all side effects. I've seen the info sheets. I've listened to my MD.


If you don't want drugs with fewer side effects why did you say "OOOH!! Tough crowd! Wants an effective drug with no side effects or deaths for anybody!! Good luck with THAT! :yh_bigsmi" - seriously unhelpful in the context.



No-one can tell you how to post but I can register my disapproval at the content of your post - or is that banned now?

Bryn Mawr;822292 wrote: If you don't want drugs with fewer side effects why did you say "OOOH!! Tough crowd! Wants an effective drug with no side effects or deaths for anybody!! Good luck with THAT! :yh_bigsmi" - seriously unhelpful in the context.



No-one can tell you how to post but I can register my disapproval at the content of your post - or is that banned now?


My comment was in the same vein as her "aspirin doesn't kill people,

people with aspirin kill people." Seriously unhelpful in the context.



As to your last line, I'll just go ahead and register my disapproval of

your SNARK.



:-6

valerie;822300 wrote: My comment was in the same vein as her "aspirin doesn't kill people,

people with aspirin kill people." Seriously unhelpful in the context.



As to your last line, I'll just go ahead and register my disapproval of

your SNARK.



:-6


Serious question - in what way was that SNARK? You suggest I have no right to tell you how to post, I suggest that I have a right to express an opinion - how is that SNARK?

Bryn Mawr;822310 wrote: Serious question - in what way was that SNARK? You suggest I have no right to tell you how to post, I suggest that I have a right to express an opinion - how is that SNARK?


I didn't SUGGEST anything, Bryn. It was a very simple request. Asked

you to PLEASE (my mom allus told me that was a magic word!!)

not tell me how to post, for that is what it seemed to me you were

doing. You DO, of course, have the right to express an OPINION about

a post.



The "or is that banned now?" is the snark, to me.



Okie-dokie, artichokie?



:wah:

valerie;822341 wrote: I didn't SUGGEST anything, Bryn. It was a very simple request. Asked

you to PLEASE (my mom allus told me that was a magic word!!)

not tell me how to post, for that is what it seemed to me you were

doing. You DO, of course, have the right to express an OPINION about

a post.



The "or is that banned now?" is the snark, to me.



Okie-dokie, artichokie?



:wah:


Fine - I was telling you as much as you were banning me. Typical forum misunderstanding

fuzzy butt;822259 wrote: I'm not sure if I'm thinkin gof the same drug they tried to introduce into Australia , marketed exactly for the purpose of stopping periods.

A few thoughts have entered my mind because about six months ago I was talking to a couple of parents around at the school , we were talking about the pill.

One came up with something and in a way i tend to agree with it.

She said that the pill didn't liberalise women it enslaved us more. It was supposed to be for our protection but it turned into the go ahead for any man wanting us or our teenage girls. I'm beginning to feel the same way about this drug, during menstration the majority of women are protected from men and sex., but now they want to take even that protection away from us .

But on the other hand who would be so disgusted with the female reproductive system that they would suggest us doing away with what is the most natural of all cycles, who would hate women so much to do away with the capacity to bare children? Are they trying to turn us into objects again?
It's been available in Australia longer than in Canada and the US.

Anti-Depo Campaign

62 Regent St.

Chippendale 2008 Australia

fuzzy butt;822278 wrote: ANd another thing Koan those side effects of the lowering of our natural imunity is exactly why we have periods in the first place . This drug is actually going to stop the one thing that keeps women healthy and protected from desease. It's been well known that the womans natural bodily fluids and all the other stuff that makes up our reproductive systems protects us just that weeeee bit more from AIDS and other deseases.

Why would they produce a drug that does away (sometimes permenantly) with all the natural protections/ barriers from our bodies?


There appears to be a higher susceptibility to STDs in women that take depo but I'm not sure if that's because the drug makes them susceptible or if it's because they aren't taking other precautions against STDs. That's a good reason for girls to not get pills or shots for contraception, it forces other safety measures to be used that protect against the gamut of problems.

I agree that menstruation is a cleansing act that nature provides. I strongly believe it serves a purpose. Losing that cycle in older age, to me, is another way in which aging weakens the body.

Oh my God !

When will this thread go away ?

Nomad;825677 wrote: Oh my God !

When will this thread go away ?
Trust me Nomad, it will go away but will surly pop up again at the most inconvenient time.

YZGI;825687 wrote: Trust me Nomad, it will go away but will surly pop up again at the most inconvenient time.




Youre preaching to the choir my man.