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That, at least, is the implication of http://www.cubanews.ain.cu/2008/0307correa-oea.htm

A press conference which I can't find in any US newspaper, by the way.From Quito, Ecuadorian Defense Minister Wellington Sandoval told a local TV channel that five bombs had been dropped at night in an area no greater than 50 meters in diameter with “impressive preciseness.”

Sandoval said the weapons match those “that are normally known as smart bombs which the US has.”

“It’s a bomb that strikes within a meter of its programmed target, launched by high speed planes,” said the Defense minister. He added that to locate Raul Reyes “equipment was used that Latin American armed forces do not possess.”

The plane with all the funny angular bits, whatever it's called. Colombia doesn't possess any of those. Neither does Colombia intelligence-gather cellphone voice identification from satellites to pinpoint where people are so as to hit them with targeted munitions from high-flying silent radar-invisible intrusions.

Ecuador would doubtless call it an act of war if it had been anyone else bombing within their national borders. When the elephant in the room is the United States, people are more circumspect.

Interesting. I wonder what's going on there then? It certainly is within the realms of possibility that the US is trying to provoke a confrontation in the region in order to intervene, and of course the real target would have to be Venezuela. Then again, perhaps the Ecuadorians are spinning this story to make it sound like the Americans are involved, you just never know.

Oh come on, this was a night bombing in a foreign country, do you seriously think the Colombian Air Force is up to putting five bombs within even the nearest square mile? This was taking out a single building, multiple bombs, no radar alert - who's kidding whom? Colombians my ass.

you mean this??

Ecuador says US high-precision bombs used in strike on FARC

Updated at: 0100 PST, Friday, March 07, 2008

QUITO: Ecuador's defense minister charged Thursday that Colombia used American high-precisions bombs in a strike against a FARC rebel camp inside Ecuador that has sparked a regional crisis.

Colombia's military, which has received billions of dollars in US aid, launched an air raid Saturday against the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) inside Ecuador, killing the group's second-in-command Raul Reyes.

"They dropped at least five bombs at night on the FARC camp site. The five projectiles, of impressive accuracy, were scattered in a diameter of about 50 meters (yards)," Defense Minister Wellington Sandoval said while talking to local media.

"They are bombs dropped by high-speed jets," Sandoval said, adding that finding Reyes's location "required equipment that South American armies do not have."

Since the attack, Venezuela's leftist President Hugo Chavez has closed ranks with his Ecuadoran counterpart, Rafael Correa, as the allies deployed reinforcements to their borders with Colombia and broke relations with Bogota.

The United States and South American nations have called for the three Andean countries to resolve their dispute diplomatically.

that says that they used american bombs not that the US bombed them?!

Flying trampoline halts high-speed train



http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080313/od_ ... oline_dc_1



Probably an Amercian made trampoline launched from a highspeed stealth bomber..:wah:

YZGI;802046 wrote: Flying trampoline halts high-speed train



http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080313/od_ ... oline_dc_1



Probably an Amercian made trampoline launched from a highspeed stealth bomber..:wah:
:wah:

AND! It's all Bush's fault, too! :rolleyes: :wah:

sunny104;802038 wrote: you mean this??

Ecuador says US high-precision bombs used in strike on FARC

Updated at: 0100 PST, Friday, March 07, 2008

QUITO: Ecuador's defense minister charged Thursday that Colombia used American high-precisions bombs in a strike against a FARC rebel camp inside Ecuador that has sparked a regional crisis.

Colombia's military, which has received billions of dollars in US aid, launched an air raid Saturday against the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) inside Ecuador, killing the group's second-in-command Raul Reyes.

"They dropped at least five bombs at night on the FARC camp site. The five projectiles, of impressive accuracy, were scattered in a diameter of about 50 meters (yards)," Defense Minister Wellington Sandoval said while talking to local media.

"They are bombs dropped by high-speed jets," Sandoval said, adding that finding Reyes's location "required equipment that South American armies do not have."

Since the attack, Venezuela's leftist President Hugo Chavez has closed ranks with his Ecuadoran counterpart, Rafael Correa, as the allies deployed reinforcements to their borders with Colombia and broke relations with Bogota.

The United States and South American nations have called for the three Andean countries to resolve their dispute diplomatically.

that says that they used american bombs not that the US bombed them?!


I don't believe the Colombian Air Force has the ability or suitable aircraft to perform the mission. I consequently think the US flew it with their own hardware.

Whether that's so or not - and it's beyond me to look up what the Colombians are equipped with that can perform laser-targeted night bombing with multiple warheads - they definitely don't have the satellite capability to voice-identify all cellphone traffic from that part of Ecuador and then pinpoint the target's cellphone location on the basis of recognizing his speech. That's entirely a US skill and it was used in the mission.

Who wrote your news article?

rjwould;802081 wrote: No, not at all. We recognize that Bush is just the class idiot at this point. The fault lies with those who voted for this man, not once, but twice...If it's once...ok you got fooled....but twice?.... makes the people the fools...


it was a joke, I always say that because he always gets blamed for everything.

rjwould;802169 wrote: Extreme use of language, but forgivable because you yourself are a pleasant person and willing to discuss politics at an intelligent level..

But seriously, I never heard anyone blame him for overcooking turkey on thanksgiving or not lifting the toilet seat at my house.

No, it's those more trivial issues like invading countries illegally and without justification of any kind, refusing to lift the ban on condom distribution in Africa to help prevent the spread of AIDS, Wanting to use the flag and constitution as toilet paper by attempting to amend it to discriminate against those not like himself....should I go on? But I digress....

I agree with Spot on this one...


I prefer to have intelligent conversations in person, so I mostly stick to being goofy on here. but Spot's used to me....

sunny104;802193 wrote: but Spot's used to me....:DSome days I run and hide in the long grass until she bursts into tears, other days I just pull her pigtails. If I were Sunny I'd not like me at all.

rjwould;802327 wrote: We (the US) could use the money and/or oil ya know, that is,

if they have any of either, but if not we just enjoy doing sh!t like this anyway....It keeps us sharp for our next invasion(s).



Y'all better watch yo' asses..
Yup, better be careful. We probably can do this by IP address too.

So the Americans are using high powered trampolines to derail trains, good god, the humanity. :wah: They are probably involved in the bombing, but its more likely they just supplied the missiles and the training for their use, though its not outside the bounds of possibility that the US air force was involved. My only point would be that you have to take everyone's story with a pinch of salt, including the Ecuadorians' reports on the alleged accuracy of the bombing. Everyone has an interest in spinning things, even the downtrodden sometimes.

Galbally;802561 wrote: My only point would be that you have to take everyone's story with a pinch of salt, including the Ecuadorians' reports on the alleged accuracy of the bombing.That would be easier to achieve if it weren't quite so obvious that the target for the night was successfully assassinated. At night. From the air. With bombs which must, by the nature of the event, have been far more accurately placed than the average tinpot banana republic could achieve, least of all one so corrupt on US patronage as Colombia.

spot;802580 wrote: That would be easier to achieve if it weren't quite so obvious that the target for the night was successfully assassinated. At night. From the air. With bombs which must, by the nature of the event, have been far more accurately placed than the average tinpot banana republic could achieve, least of all one so corrupt on US patronage as Colombia.


Now there is no need to insult the tin-pot Columbians like that, there is more to their exports than bananas. :wah:

The thing is, Jester, that countries have secrets. So "you have no facts" is fairly inevitable. What I'm capable of doing is deducing logical inevitabilities from factual statements, and my deductions about who has the spy satellite capability of intercepting cellphone traffic over a large area and subjecting it to voice identification analysis are rock solid.

As for the bombing - do you seriously think the Colombians can plant five bombs at night into a blank bit of jungle hiding a room in a barracks? I don't, that's a trick your stealth bomber pulls off. Nobody else can do it. Again it's based on people having been there and seen the damage. It's a signature.

Paul used to pull this trick over questions like wedding party guests being indiscriminately killed or what happened to Pat Tillman. Where are your facts, show me the official reports, he kept insisting. As if. They came out later though, didn't they. All he was achieving was putting off the fateful day, rather like this stretching out of the occupation is managing to do.

It leaned ever so slightly away from death-to-millions capitalism in the direction of rescued-from-slavery socialism and attracted the ire of the Owner Of The Planet.

It's just like Paul and just as futile. Let's have a rule that everyone puts their head in the sand and NOBODY PEEKS.

There are secrets, Jester. That's why there's no primary source for missions like this. That's why there's only inference. It's good inference which, to my mind, carries conviction. By all means hide from it.

There's a chap who specializes in this drivel. Tom Clancy, is it? Full of gung-ho victorious guys full of the virtues of clean living and freedom and democracy? It wouldn't surprise me if all this 21st century mess is his fault in the first place.

Anyway, we did our bit. You posted your bits, I posted mine and there's as always the audience which is all we wrote for in the first place.

Out of interest, what would you call a bunch of Contras?

Jester;803010 wrote: I don't know, what do you call a bunch of Contras?Terrorists, since they deliberately terrorised and murdered perfectly ordinary people. As opposed to the Sandanistas whose sole desire was to better their communities. Which, if you'll pardon any unintentional offence, makes your country the largest state sponsor of international terrorism in living memory. Whatever allegations you have against Iran or Libya or, of all peoples, peace-loving Cuba pale into insignificance besides those killers Reagan armed and financed.

spot;801760 wrote: That, at least, is the implication of http://www.cubanews.ain.cu/2008/0307correa-oea.htm



A press conference which I can't find in any US newspaper, by the way.None of the anti-Bush blogs have picked this up? Not one?

Accountable;803080 wrote: None of the anti-Bush blogs have picked this up? Not one?


I would not know, dear boy, I do not frequent such lowlife establishments. I get Ann Coulter's newsletters and that's about it as far as op-ed goes.

Oh, and Newt Gingrich's.

And Robert Novak's.

The Contras? Completely certain, yes. Foreign mercenaries recruited by and fighting on behalf of the USA to reinstate a staggeringly corrupt but pliant regime. Did I hear that Admiral Poindexter's part of the current Administration too? There's no oubliette so deep that a stone-cold killer like that couldn't be kept away from the levers of power one last time?

Shall I tell you what I most object to? It's the utter lack of morality implied by "Low level delivery man is detonated along with the guys when he opens the case as instructed in the presence of so-and-so". The idea that someone is so worthless that he can be discarded as a mere pawn. That's how you end up with tens of thousands of Nicaraguan villagers deliberately and terrifyingly killed in order to bully the rest into submission. It's very American, it just utterly contradicts all that America claims to stand for. The inability to stand scrutiny is what condemns the approach. As an aside, the extent to which American Christianity swallows this notion of blessing the slaughterers rather than defending the slaughtered is why I react so badly to American Christianity.

spot;803820 wrote: The Contras? Completely certain, yes. Foreign mercenaries recruited by and fighting on behalf of the USA to reinstate a staggeringly corrupt but pliant regime. Did I hear that Admiral Poindexter's part of the current Administration too? There's no oubliette so deep that a stone-cold killer like that couldn't be kept away from the levers of power one last time?

Shall I tell you what I most object to? It's the utter lack of morality implied by "Low level delivery man is detonated along with the guys when he opens the case as instructed in the presence of so-and-so". The idea that someone is so worthless that he can be discarded as a mere pawn. That's how you end up with tens of thousands of Nicaraguan villagers deliberately and terrifyingly killed in order to bully the rest into submission. It's very American, it just utterly contradicts all that America claims to stand for. The inability to stand scrutiny is what condemns the approach. As an aside, the extent to which American Christianity swallows this notion of blessing the slaughterers rather than defending the slaughtered is why I react so badly to American Christianity.


Your ethical points are well made, but as a general point (and I'm going slightly off topic here I know), the utter lack of morality displayed could also be applied to those radical members of the muslim community who indoctrinate the vunerable and feeble minded to become suicide bombers, who usually die for some obscure political objective of their master and not the overarching one of achieving the caliphate. Of course it also applies to the British, Russian, German and French generals who casually consigned the lives of hundreds of thousands of their own men to pointless attacks on the western and eastern fronts in the 1914-1918 war, or perhaps in the British use of Anzac troops as cannon fodder during the galipoli campaign, or the horrific martial mass suicides incited by the Japanese military in both Japanese and Civilian japanese in the closing stages of WWII, which so shocked the invading US forces, battle hardened as they were at that stage. Moral degenercy based on hubris and too much power is nothing new, as you well know.

I wouldn't disagree with the point about the general lack of any ethical or moral purpose in the US's policy particularly in Latin America for many years, it is reprehensible in many respects, I would suggest it stems from a time when the US was more aware of its weakness than its strength and wanted to ensure than no one would rise to challenge it in its own hemisphere, again nothing new, but again, in strict relation to this topic you are in actual fact drawing a conclusion here based on your own personal distaste for the American system and its governance, which is fair enough if thats how you feel about it.

Galbally;804019 wrote: Moral degeneracy based on hubris and too much power is nothing new, as you well know.Ouch.

Forty fifteen and Galbally has two service points for the set.

Jester;804021 wrote: You misunderstood, the 'low level delivery man' is not the US, or anyone else that operates for the US. In my senario it is a factional discharge of Mr. So-and-so by other inter FARC fellas that want his spot. And yes I agree it is rather low of them to do such a thing.I didn't see it as a rant at all, it's a reasoned commentary. There appears to be no level at which you're prepared to allow tolerance and community to succeed if they're not your community. It's distressing.

Harold Pinter died a couple of weeks after giving this acceptance for the Nobel Prize, he makes the point about the Contras far better than I could. He is a man of great moral stature, he might be more persuasive than I if you listen to him. He's one of the authoritative eye witnesses.

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/lite ... cture.html

The text of the Nobel Prize acceptance speech is printed as well as on video there. let me copy into the thread a pertinent section, shall I?The United States supported the brutal Somoza dictatorship in Nicaragua for over 40 years. The Nicaraguan people, led by the Sandinistas, overthrew this regime in 1979, a breathtaking popular revolution.

The Sandinistas weren't perfect. They possessed their fair share of arrogance and their political philosophy contained a number of contradictory elements. But they were intelligent, rational and civilised. They set out to establish a stable, decent, pluralistic society. The death penalty was abolished. Hundreds of thousands of poverty-stricken peasants were brought back from the dead. Over 100,000 families were given title to land. Two thousand schools were built. A quite remarkable literacy campaign reduced illiteracy in the country to less than one seventh. Free education was established and a free health service. Infant mortality was reduced by a third. Polio was eradicated.

The United States denounced these achievements as Marxist/Leninist subversion. In the view of the US government, a dangerous example was being set. If Nicaragua was allowed to establish basic norms of social and economic justice, if it was allowed to raise the standards of health care and education and achieve social unity and national self respect, neighbouring countries would ask the same questions and do the same things. There was of course at the time fierce resistance to the status quo in El Salvador.

I spoke earlier about 'a tapestry of lies' which surrounds us. President Reagan commonly described Nicaragua as a 'totalitarian dungeon'. This was taken generally by the media, and certainly by the British government, as accurate and fair comment. But there was in fact no record of death squads under the Sandinista government. There was no record of torture. There was no record of systematic or official military brutality. No priests were ever murdered in Nicaragua. There were in fact three priests in the government, two Jesuits and a Maryknoll missionary. The totalitarian dungeons were actually next door, in El Salvador and Guatemala. The United States had brought down the democratically elected government of Guatemala in 1954 and it is estimated that over 200,000 people had been victims of successive military dictatorships.

Six of the most distinguished Jesuits in the world were viciously murdered at the Central American University in San Salvador in 1989 by a battalion of the Alcatl regiment trained at Fort Benning, Georgia, USA. That extremely brave man Archbishop Romero was assassinated while saying mass. It is estimated that 75,000 people died. Why were they killed? They were killed because they believed a better life was possible and should be achieved. That belief immediately qualified them as communists. They died because they dared to question the status quo, the endless plateau of poverty, disease, degradation and oppression, which had been their birthright.

The United States finally brought down the Sandinista government. It took some years and considerable resistance but relentless economic persecution and 30,000 dead finally undermined the spirit of the Nicaraguan people. They were exhausted and poverty stricken once again. The casinos moved back into the country. Free health and free education were over. Big business returned with a vengeance. 'Democracy' had prevailed.

But this 'policy' was by no means restricted to Central America. It was conducted throughout the world. It was never-ending. And it is as if it never happened.

The United States supported and in many cases engendered every right wing military dictatorship in the world after the end of the Second World War. I refer to Indonesia, Greece, Uruguay, Brazil, Paraguay, Haiti, Turkey, the Philippines, Guatemala, El Salvador, and, of course, Chile. The horror the United States inflicted upon Chile in 1973 can never be purged and can never be forgiven.

Hundreds of thousands of deaths took place throughout these countries. Did they take place? And are they in all cases attributable to US foreign policy? The answer is yes they did take place and they are attributable to American foreign policy. But you wouldn't know it.

It never happened. Nothing ever happened. Even while it was happening it wasn't happening. It didn't matter. It was of no interest. The crimes of the United States have been systematic, constant, vicious, remorseless, but very few people have actually talked about them. You have to hand it to America. It has exercised a quite clinical manipulation of power worldwide while masquerading as a force for universal good. It's a brilliant, even witty, highly successful act of hypnosis.

I put to you that the United States is without doubt the greatest show on the road. Brutal, indifferent, scornful and ruthless it may be but it is also very clever. As a salesman it is out on its own and its most saleable commodity is self love. It's a winner. Listen to all American presidents on television say the words, 'the American people', as in the sentence, 'I say to the American people it is time to pray and to defend the rights of the American people and I ask the American people to trust their president in the action he is about to take on behalf of the American people.'

It's a scintillating stratagem. Language is actually employed to keep thought at bay. The words 'the American people' provide a truly voluptuous cushion of reassurance. You don't need to think. Just lie back on the cushion. The cushion may be suffocating your intelligence and your critical faculties but it's very comfortable. This does not apply of course to the 40 million people living below the poverty line and the 2 million men and women imprisoned in the vast gulag of prisons, which extends across the US.

Scrat;805796 wrote: I wouldn't be surprised that the Columbians had support from the American armed services, we all know we do it. We have beem meddling in SA for the better part of a century and a half.



I find the story to be a little extraordinary, 5 bombs in a 50 ft area is not possible, it may have been a jdam munition of some type but American none the less.
Hmmmmm :yh_think. The numbers aren't possible, but we can assume that the accusation that the attack was American. That part's indisputable. Therefore, we can change the details to support the conclusion. Yup, sounds fair to me!



Here's an outlandish idea: The explosion came from a planted bomb, not from a jet, and the guy's blaming America so they can all blame an outsider and keep the peace talks on track. Nah, that's too far-fetched.



http://news.google.com/news?sourceid=na ... ia+bombing

Jester;804083 wrote: I read his whole speech, I can see why hes such a well liked playwriter, he can sweeten a set of words like molassas off a cow teet. What an imaginitive fellow!


Just out of curiosity, since you make the comment he is imaginative, which bits are made up? Do you dispute any of the factual content in the speech?

Jester;806704 wrote: ACC which story are you linking? The link you gave goes to a full google page?
Yup. All stories about the bombing in Colombia, and not one mention of aircraft. Damn lying media refuse to give us credit! Don't they know that nothing moves without our say-so? :yh_eyerol

Jester;806700 wrote: I've learned to steer clear of this line of questioning on specifics on FG, GM, sorry. I wont go into detail about which parts the gentleman made up. It's a fair inference that you know the consequence of your challenging the truth of any single fact is that since it's demonstrably true someone would post authentication. It's rather sordid that you think you can allege "made up" while not being prepared to support your claim. You're accusing a very fine man of lying.

An interesting take on the story :-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... arc109.xml

Jester;806772 wrote: No more so than you saying that US stealth aircraft bombed FARC in Ecuador.

You are the one who started this thread, and I now believe you did just to launch into this issue so you could issue more propaganda.

All I have to do to support my claim is tell you that no aircraft in the world, US or not, could pickle 5 bombs from the air in a 50 meter barrel. 1 for sure, possibly 2 with two simultaneous attack air craft, but not 5, no way.

Your reference to the US on this issue comes from action dating back 20-30 years.

This was a simple and deliberate close air/ground attack by Columbian forces after a ligitimate terrorist target that Ecuador and Venezuala hide simply because it ticks off the Columbians and in turn the US.
The person you called a liar is Harold Pinter. I was asking you to identify a lie in the passage I quoted, since you said "I wont go into detail about which parts the gentleman made up" which unfairly calls him a liar without justification.