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Crimble wrote: Thanks for this Lon. I've read a fair bit on the tenets of religious humanism but just wondered whether that removing the actually religious part of a religion is acceptable? Last year we held a traditional Passover celebration and all the rituals and prayers in it were done for and because of God's actions. I'd like to embrace religious humanism because I find I cannot believe in a God but don't feel entirely convinced that it isn't just changing a religion to suit your own needs. But maybe changing a religion to suit alternative needs and beliefs is OK. I just feel a bit confused by it and wondered if anyone on here has any opions about this?
Much as I like that there is religion to remind us tht there is something other than man in the universe, I find that one of the biggest set backs to being a religion is that they are the only ones that are the right one. It is akin to racism. Racism comes in all sizes, shapes and colours.

No matter what anybody says we all come from the same seed. It is the environments that our ancestors lived in that gives us our tones of skin colour. Living in the blazing sun is going to make you well sun tanned all year round, hence, living under a certain code will leave your soul with a certain colour.

We all come and adore the same God or whatever you want to or not want to call Him. Sometimes an upbringing under stringent ideals will leave a person with a bad taste in their mouths. That they don't want to put their own families through the turmoils and torment that are usually associated with blindered upbringings is not hard to believe. Don't blame God.

The only rituals that you should live by are being a good person doing good deeds. But on the same token, as is with not learning the lessons of history, there is the learning of not allowing yourself to fall prey to those that think that they are god. All the religions are saying is that we are not God. Anyone that thinks that they are should be given a wide berth while being kept under observation.

I know of the British Humanism Society,



www.humanism.org.uk



Perhaps they will have an US site

Minding that I just scanned the info at the link that Lon gave, it seems that humanism is not reasonably combined with the name of a specific religion. I wonder if this is a way to make it easier for Jewish born people to practice humanism without having to completely break from a religion that is very proud of it's heritage. My limited understanding of humanism is that it does not exclude people whereas the Jewish religion is highly exclusive. I'm not sure how the two can honestly combine.

The Jewish are supposed to be "God's chosen people". It is a central part of the heritage. I don't see how someone could be a humanist and still be one of God's chosen. But maybe this is not a big deal anymore.

Of the three main Religions Jewish,Christian & Muslim. The Christian & Muslim are break-aways-from the Jewish. Roman Catholism has more of the Muslim in their church.

capt_buzzard wrote: Of the three main Religions Jewish,Christian & Muslim. The Christian & Muslim are break-aways-from the Jewish. Roman Catholism has more of the Muslim in their church.
I'm telling the pope on you! No matter what you say they are exclusionary. All 3 of these Middle Eastern religions. They are based on being the only one and true religion.

Judaism, albeit a reminder that there is but one God, has kept others from becoming involved in God's work by creating a pseudo-racist stance on what and who God is. The exclusion goes against the rules of God because it is entirely based on the fallacious Books of Genisis.

If there are lies in the Bible then these would be where they are to be found. The lineage of who begat whom is unproven and based in fantastic evolution of the various tribes' heritage. But that being said, the ideal of the Word being handed down from generation to generation is a reality that they believe and follow to this day. These are not lies per se but the aspirations of the believers that they are special to God as has been proven by the lineage of the births of these people..

And what if all the three main religions are a great Hoax? What then.

capt_buzzard wrote: And what if all the three main religions are a great Hoax? What then.
Then we'll create another religion like the one that sagan and I are heading. Cash or money orders can be sent to... ?

No No No, Its starting in Ireland. The Word according to, oh send your donation to above

capt_buzzard wrote: No No No, Its starting in Ireland. The Word according to, oh send your donation to above
No. Sagan has it on good authority that it is going to be started in our bank accounts.If you want in... you gotta pay for the right!

kensloft wrote: Then we'll create another religion like the one that sagan and I are heading. Cash or money orders can be sent to... ?
Just sign on the dotted line.....

Attached files

koan wrote: Just sign on the dotted line.....
And send lots of cash!

Truly a great business Religion.

Can a person be a Jewish Atheist? I say yes.

The justification for that seemingly paradoxical claim is simply that Judaism is far more than a religion.

It is also a path to the roots of the culture that a person was brought up in, the morality that they were taught, the manner in which they have learned to relate one to another, and the traditions that we have and that frequently transcend belief in a deity.

Many people claim that morality comes from religion. I deny this. I assert that religion codifies good morality as well as in some cases awful morality and that it is the ‘good’ morality that has caused the religion to succeed.

Me? I’m Jewish by tradition and by inclination and by value and by morality but not by belief in G-d.

My rejection of both creationism as well as the existence of a divine ‘being’ does not prevent me from seeing and heeding the good morality captured in such as in The Torah, the Haftorah, Shas, and the derivatives.

And our traditions.

Why do we have traditions and why are the so important to us?

I’ll tell you.



Don’t ask.

.

I believe in God the same way Einstein believed in God -- that there is a "cosmic" god who was responsible for the big bang and the laws of physics, but everything else was left to chance. I see the Bible as being inspired by God but written by man.

As far as the customs... In my house, most Fridays we celebrate the Sabbath. It's a nice way to bring the family together and remind ourselves that we are part of the Jewish community. It's a relaxing and happy event, celebrated with prayer, song, discussion, and a good meal. We go to synagogue occasionally, but we haven't found one here in Denver that we really like, so we only go a few times a year.

So for me, it’s more of a cultural thing. The practices are a reminder to be a good person. There’s no health benefit to not being able to have a piece of cheese on a hamburger -- it’s simply a reminder to think about what it means to be a Jew. When I read the weekly Torah portion, I'm connecting with Jews all around the world because we are all reading the same portion at the same time.

Most Jews don’t believe in an “afterlife.” Most of us believe we’re supposed to be decent people while we’re here on this earth, and that includes both secular and religious Jews. I see people like Jack Abramoff and Michael Chertoff as an insult to Jews. That’s not how Jews are supposed to behave.

As far as whether one can be an atheist Jew... Sure. If your mother was Jewish, you’re Jewish. Zionism was originally a political movement seeking to establish a secular state of Israel. By some estimates, more than half the Jews in Israel are not religious. Most of the Torah consists of laws on how to treat your fellow man. There’s very little mysticism in there.

In reality, all Jews are humanistic. We believe in the power of man to change the world using G-d's blueprint Ha Torah. We do not believe that some big finger will come down from heaven and make everything right here on earth. It has always been this way; cooperation (covenant) between G-d and man. Look, for example, at the crossing of the Red Sea. G-d says to Moses "Why are you crying (praying) to Me? Tell the people to move forward!" When they did, the waters parted. Shalom y'all.

Crimble;32214 wrote: Does anyone have any opinions on the concept of Jewish Humanism? My family are orthadox Jews but my parents although brought up devoutly, rejected it as adults and my brothers and I were not given any information about our religion. As an adult and a parent I am very interested and proud of my heritage and have great admiration for the Jewish committment to family, community, work ethic and the value and importance of education but I don't believe in God. I have started to investigate Jewish Humanism which appears to embrace Jewish culture, history, heritage and strength and values of the Jews but without worshiping God. Instead it helps us to look at ourselves and concentrate on how we can be thankful for what is around us and to draw on our own strength and that of our forbears to help us to do what is right, bring our children up with sound values and to enjoy, preserve and pass on our culture and heritage. To me it sounds feasible but do you think you can separate out the religion from the cultural and heritage side of the religion? Or is this wanting your cake and eating it? There does not seem to be a Jewish Humanist movement in the UK as yet though it appears to be flourishing in the States. I wonder why it hasn't 'caught on' here.


Jews defy all conventional definitions of a people or nation.According to Torah law, a person's Jewishness is not a matter of life-style or self-perception: one may be totally unaware of one's Jewishness and still be a Jew, or one may consider himself Jewish and observe all the precepts of the Torah and still not be a Jew.

the Hebrew word mitzvah means both commandment and connection.our observance of the mitzvot is the manifestation, in our daily lives, of the intrinsic bond between God and Israel.In the words of the Talmud (Sanhedrin 44a), A Jew, although he has transgressed, is a Jew.

this must have been very hard for your parents as Jewish life is all about family ect. as you stated above.So go ahead become a Humanist or any kind of ist you want your still a Jew.Welcome home anytime You may not like Gefilte fish,but most of the food is awsome.

HuBuJew;1200738 wrote: In reality, all Jews are humanistic. We believe in the power of man to change the world using G-d's blueprint Ha Torah. We do not believe that some big finger will come down from heaven and make everything right here on earth.
But the Tanakh does include the idea of a Messiah, and more. Despite that, it's quite true that most who call themselves are Jews are indeed humanists, because attempts to obey Moses are reliance on human effort.

It has always been this way; cooperation (covenant) between G-d and man. Look, for example, at the crossing of the Red Sea. G-d says to Moses "Why are you crying (praying) to Me? Tell the people to move forward!"
'Moses answered, "Don't be afraid! Stand your ground, and you will see what Yehovah will do to save you today; you will never see these Egyptians again. Yehovah will fight for you, and all you have to do is keep still." Ex 14:13-14

'The Egyptians said, "Yehovah is fighting for the Israelites against us. Let's get out of here!"' Ex 14:25



The Ark had no oars, no sails, no rudder.

xyz;1325259 wrote: The Ark had no oars, no sails, no rudder.
What about kangaroos - did it have any of them?

Glaswegian;1325284 wrote: What about kangaroos - did it have any of them?
Allegorically, yes.

xyz;1325290 wrote: Allegorically, yes.
When you say that the kangaroos on Noah’s ark were only there in an allegorical sense, xyz, this means that there were no kangaroos physically present on it at all. The kangaroos you refer to are just make believe kangaroos - fantasy ones - aren’t they?

Is there anything else in the Bible which is just allegorical like the kangaroos above?

Glaswegian;1325324 wrote: When you say
Can you not see, Glaswegian, that you do no more than demonstrate a great need for your moral improvement? You have had one more answer than you deserve in this thread.

If you wish to discover how Judaism deals with the Bible, there are plenty of websites available, to say nothing of synagogues.