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I’m home sick today so I went to the local big box to get some OTC help and I was shocked by what I heard. I’m sure I’ve heard and seen it before but today it made me take notice.

What caught my attention was that I didn’t understand the languages being spoken. It was like I had gone to a store and ended up in another country.

I was thinking about it as I entered the men’s room where on the walls, gangs had written warnings to other gangs and derogatory comments about people who lived in other neighborhoods. “They have divided my community, I thought. How dare they come here and divide us? How dare they turn the streets into war zones and our walls into billboards for their hate?

Am I wrong for being incensed?

Itsme;744139 wrote: Forgot to ask. You said homesick. Are you away from your native land or just out of town?


No...I'm home and I'm sick. I normally work 50+ hours a week.

Clint;744130 wrote: I’m home sick today so I went to the local big box to get some OTC help and I was shocked by what I heard. I’m sure I’ve heard and seen it before but today it made me take notice.

What caught my attention was that I didn’t understand the languages being spoken. It was like I had gone to a store and ended up in another country.

I was thinking about it as I entered the men’s room where on the walls, gangs had written warnings to other gangs and derogatory comments about people who lived in other neighborhoods. “They have divided my community, I thought. How dare they come here and divide us? How dare they turn the streets into war zones and our walls into billboards for their hate?

Am I wrong for being incensed?


What's a local big box and what is OTC help?

It could be considered an opportunity to learn from another culture.

Not in the least, are you talking about immigrants? I went to Central Cali for college for a few years, and I tell you what, I thought I had landed in Mexico, I see nothing wrong with LEGAL immigration but I also agree that some of them come to this country not wanting to learn our customs and culture. There is this little convience store down the street from my house and it was owned for a long time by a couple who were locals in my town, well they sold the store to two Mexican immigrants and they work hard and seem to keep the store up well, then they have hired on two women who neither speak English or are very friendly, I come in atleast 3-4 times a week and ask for a pack of Marlboro lights, THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND ME! So now I just point out what I want....it is so frustrating that I cannot converse basic language, and they don't seem to thrilled that I don't speak Spanish either!

rjwould;744142 wrote: Right and wrong are moral judgments. I think you may (hopefully) be going through some inner dialogue about questions and frustrations people face everyday.

From reading your post, I would ask you some questions. The first question I would ask is; Why do you ask why they came here? who is 'they'? and what makes you think they are not products of your community or society?


Where did I ask "why they came here"?

I don't think the behavior is a product of the community because it is behavior that showed up with recent divisions in language and cultures.

You're white right? Of course you are a bigot, just ask anyone...

gmc;744161 wrote: What's a local big box and what is OTC help?


OTC= medications sold over the counter

Big box= a huge retail outlet in a building that looks lik a big box.

YZGI;744170 wrote: You're white right? Of course you are a bigot, just ask anyone...


Busted:o

Nomad;744165 wrote: It could be considered an opportunity to learn from another culture.


Do you mean I should buy a can of spray paint and start a gang?

Jester;744178 wrote: You could start a Jesus gang and grafitti scripture and positive encouraging words!! :wah:


What? You want to spend the rest of your life in jail?

Jester;744178 wrote: You could start a Jesus gang and grafitti scripture and positive encouraging words!! :wah:
But if he doesn't use a different language it just wont be the same..:wah:

Jester;744212 wrote: Paul did! :wah:


Yes he did indeed.

rjwould;744234 wrote: Did I mis read this?


My mind reading skills are a little dull today. I'm sick.:-3

Clint;744130 wrote: I’m home sick today so I went to the local big box to get some OTC help and I was shocked by what I heard. I’m sure I’ve heard and seen it before but today it made me take notice.

What caught my attention was that I didn’t understand the languages being spoken. It was like I had gone to a store and ended up in another country.

I was thinking about it as I entered the men’s room where on the walls, gangs had written warnings to other gangs and derogatory comments about people who lived in other neighborhoods. “They have divided my community, I thought. How dare they come here and divide us? How dare they turn the streets into war zones and our walls into billboards for their hate?

Am I wrong for being incensed?


Some politically correct folks might say so, Clint, but I don't personally think you're wrong. You want to protect and retain the goodness of what is essentially yours. I can certainly appreciate that.

Clint;744176 wrote: Do you mean I should buy a can of spray paint and start a gang?




Why yes I do. Thats exactly what I mean.

Nomad;744247 wrote: Why yes I do. Thats exactly what I mean.


At last, I feel like I have a purpose in life.

I think its a completely normal human reaction, I think most people have experienced similar ones, and its a healthy feeling to want to preserve the familiar things that surround us and feel more akin to people who look the same as you, and have the same language as culture as your own. Of course taken to an extreme or just being reactionary against people who are not like you is very corrosive. But people shouldn't feel bad because they feel affronted by encountering aggresive or negative aspects of people from other places or cultures, especially once your position in a majority society is threatened by simple numbers of new, different people, its just natural.

I also have to say that mass migration and immigration is a big theme of our time, and one we deal with by not really dealing with it because of injustices of the past (or present), and also the PC sensibilities of our times. What the answers are I have no idea, as these are big questions and not ones that our easily answered. But I will say that its hard to expect people from other societies to have respect for our culture when we spend so much time attacking all aspects of it ourselves, sometimes for good reason, other times it seems just because its fashionable to do so, and a lot of that originates in America.

Galbally;744332 wrote: I think its a completely normal human reaction, I think most people have experienced similar ones, and its a healthy feeling to want to preserve the familiar things that surround us and feel more akin to people who look the same as you, and have the same language as culture as your own. Of course taken to an extreme or just being reactionary against people who are not like you is very corrosive. But people shouldn't feel bad because they feel affronted by encountering aggresive or negative aspects of people from other places or cultures, especially once your position in a majority society is threatened by simple numbers of new, different people, its just natural.

I also have to say that mass migration and immigration is a big theme of our time, and one we deal with by not really dealing with it because of injustices of the past (or present), and also the PC sensibilities of our times. What the answers are I have no idea, as these are big questions and not ones that our easily answered. But I will say that its hard to expect people from other societies to have respect for our culture when we spend so much time attacking all aspects of it ourselves, sometimes for good reason, other times it seems just because its fashionable to do so, and a lot of that originates in America.


We definately need to be more focused on the good in America. It really does outweigh the bad.

Clint;744334 wrote: We definately need to be more focused on the good in America. It really does outweigh the bad.


I'd agree with that, I think its also important to remember that one of the reasons that America and American culture has been so sucessfully exported across the world is that it is essentially inclusive and positive, (despite all the negative things) and being the original "immigrant" society, it incorporates a lot of diverse cultures into itself, while still being distinctively "American" for want of a better word. For instance, its hard to imagine American culture without the huge contribution that Black American's have made to it, or Jewish Americans, or Italian Americans, Irish Americans, and all the rest, as well as the original Anglo-American culture of the early British colonies. I think that if Americans lose that spirit because of the fears of the scary 21st century world then something that has always made America special will be gone.

Galbally;744343 wrote: I'd agree with that, I think its also important to remember that one of the reasons that America and American culture has been so sucessfully exported across the world is that it is essentially inclusive and positive, (despite all the negative things) and being the original "immigrant" society, it incorporates a lot of diverse cultures into itself, while still being distinctively "American" for want of a better word. For instance, its hard to imagine American culture without the huge contribution that Black American's have made to it, or Jewish Americans, or Italian Americans, Irish Americans, and all the rest, as well as the original Anglo-American culture of the early British colonies. I think that if Americans lose that spirit because of the fears of the scary 21st century world then something that has always made America special will be gone.


I remember when we were a "melting pot". People who came here like my great-great-grandfather (Chang Bunker) wanted to become Americans and worked hard to fit into the culture they had chosen to be a part of. I'm not sure that's the case today. Today we encourage people to isolate themselves, preserving the cultures from which they came.

Clint;744358 wrote: I remember when we were a "melting pot". People who came here like my great-great-grandfather (Chang Bunker) wanted to become Americans and worked hard to fit into the culture they had chosen to be a part of. I'm not sure that's the case today. Today we encourage people to isolate themselves, preserving the cultures from which they came.


I think thats a good point, and I think isolation is born of fear, which is something that our media and advertising obsessed culture tells us to be, about everything all the time. Thats not just an American thing unfortunatly, its everywhere, and its increasing intensity is corroding all the of the things that glue society together. The thing is that some fears are justified and need to be faced up to, but most are not, and if you lose the sense of what you should and should not be afraid of, you become afraid of everything, and then you don't know how to judge what to do about real problems. We are so inundated with all these problems nowadays and also asked to feel responsible for everything, that people don't know what to think half the time, about most things.

Galbally;744373 wrote: I think thats a good point, and I think isolation is born of fear, which is something that our media and advertising obsessed culture tells us to be, about everything all the time. Thats not just an American thing unfortunatly, its everywhere, and its increasing intensity is corroding all the of the things that glue society together. The thing is that some fears are justified and need to be faced up to, but most are not, and if you lose the sense of what you should and should not be afraid of, you become afraid of everything, and then you don't know how to judge what to do about real problems. We are so inundated with all these problems nowadays and also asked to feel responsible for everything, that people don't know what to think half the time, about most things.


Fear sells and the media has sold it well. It will take a wholesale change on their part in an effort to put away the fear and replace it with undrstanding and a sense of community. Educators are also part of this and they too need to make a big change. Pardon me though because I'm not optomistic it will happen any time soon.

From the oxford english dictionary

bigot

/biggt/

• noun a person who is prejudiced in their views and intolerant of the opinions of others.

— DERIVATIVES bigoted adjective bigotry noun.

— ORIGIN French.


Having crossed words with you a few times I would say no you are not a bigot. Being tolerant doesn't mean you don't have strong opinions about the way things should be or that you will accept someone trying to put you down-or dis you I think is the appropriate Americanism.

posted by clint

I remember when we were a "melting pot". People who came here like my great-great-grandfather (Chang Bunker) wanted to become Americans and worked hard to fit into the culture they had chosen to be a part of. I'm not sure that's the case today. Today we encourage people to isolate themselves, preserving the cultures from which they came.


Interesting comment. In the UK there was a goct report recently (can't find the link just now) that basically says that local authorities trying to be helpful in providing translation services and printing leaflets in urdu or whatever actually prevent people integrating by making it easy for them not to hve to learn the language. By contrast most of the eastern european workers can speak enough english to get by in about a month-or if they already speak english they quickly pick up the local acents. It's a bit bizarre, you get this cultured english accent then suddenly half way through a sentence it's broad scots then switches back to received english pronounciation.

What's a big box and otc help? I know you are american posters are using english but every now and then you come out with something that makes no sense at all.

gmc;744475 wrote: From the oxford english dictionary



Having crossed words with you a few times I would say no you are not a bigot. Being tolerant doesn't mean you don't have strong opinions about the way things should be or that you will accept someone trying to put you down-or dis you I think is the appropriate Americanism.

posted by clint



Interesting comment. In the UK there was a goct report recently (can't find the link just now) that basically says that local authorities trying to be helpful in providing translation services and printing leaflets in urdu or whatever actually prevent people integrating by making it easy for them not to hve to learn the language. By contrast most of the eastern european workers can speak enough english to get by in about a month-or if they already speak english they quickly pick up the local acents. It's a bit bizarre, you get this cultured english accent then suddenly half way through a sentence it's broad scots then switches back to received english pronounciation.

What's a big box and otc help? I know you are american posters are using english but every now and then you come out with something that makes no sense at all.


It baffles me when people go to the expense and trouble of moving to America, presumably to improve their lives then try to change America into wherever they came from. America is better off for being a melting pot. The melding of cultures has had a synergistic effect until recently. Now we encourage people to create little countries within a country and think somehow it won’t result in strife.

OTC= Over the Counter vs. by prescription

Big Boxes are these huge 500,000 square foot stores that from the outside look like a big box

Clint;744814 wrote: It baffles me when people go to the expense and trouble of moving to America, presumably to improve their lives then try to change America into wherever they came from. America is better off for being a melting pot. The melding of cultures has had a synergistic effect until recently. Now we encourage people to create little countries within a country and think somehow it won’t result in strife.

OTC= Over the Counter vs. by prescription

Big Boxes are these huge 500,000 square foot stores that from the outside look like a big box


Thank you. I kind of guessed what big box was but otc had me flummoxed.

gmc;744918 wrote: Thank you. I kind of guessed what big box was but otc had me flummoxed.


And "flummoxed" had me bewildered til I looked it up.:wah:

rjwould;745240 wrote: It is equally perplexing to others when Americans go into their countries and try to convert them to Americanism, pushing unrestrained capitalism and making 'under the table' deals with leaders, essentially bribing them.


So now I know your MO. You like to pick fights. Have you ever finished one?

rjwould;745323 wrote: Not looking for a fight at all. I'm simply attempting to bring another perspective into the conversation. It is difficult for Americans, of which I am one, to look in the mirror. I often find that that which bothers us is a reflection of ourselves. Everything has an equal opposite reflection. To the extent that one "is" or behaves is more often than not, an extreme of the opposite of who they are.

That may sound confusing, so, to simply it; To the extent that I am a nice and decent person (and I am), is equal to my ability to be mean and indecent (which I am capable of).

As for fighting! You win every argument you and I will ever have, OK? I am prepared to be wrong about everything and anything..


I don't care who wins. That's not my point.

There may be a link to our foreign policy or lack thereof and the subject of the thread. If there is, it's thin.

You jumped in like one of those America haters that loves the freedom, free lunches and frolicking but leaves the fighting and forfeiting of freedom for the sake of freedom to others. I’m not saying you are but that’s the way it came across to me.

Scrat is correct (as much as it pains me to say so;)). We have been overtaken by the fear that if we do something it will be messy and we here in America don’t like messes. If we continue down this road of allowing the thugs to do their thing without consequences we will end up in total chaos and the mess will touch everyone.

If you live in any of the larger metropolitan areas in America you know not to look at the car next to you too long, not to approach a group of young males (often females) on the street, not to walk the streets at night, not to let your guard down in a mall and on and on. Selling security systems is one of the best businesses you can get into. We have a growth industry made up of ways to harden the target. This is not freedom.

rjwould;745368 wrote: You and I mostly agree I think. It is how we get there that is different tho.

A little history about me; I am in my 52nd year of life, I volunteered for the Navy during the Viet Nam conflict and took part in the evacuation of refugees fleeing Viet Nam. I am the father of 5, husband of one and am a small business owner. I grew up in the streets of New York more or less and am mostly self educated.

I am not a thug (most of the time anyway) and I don't like to be stared at while sitting in my car either. When I was young I was sometimes suspicious of strangers approaching me too. America teaches all of us in school not to let our guard down and works very hard in developing a warrior mentality in us beginning at a young age through sports. If you want to think about an interesting subject, female violence has risen in proportion to girls involved more in contact sports over the past 15 or 20 years.

I do not want to take your thread off topic so I will stop there. Suffice to say that I have no animosity toward you and I will endeavor to communicate myself better.

EDIT: BTW if you re-read my first post in this thread you will see I didn't just jump in as you described.


Well, now you’ve done it. I have to be nice to you now¦well, I’ll try. I started in the Navy and finished in the Coast Guard. I was in and out of Vietnam from 67-70 without setting foot on U.S. soil for exactly three years. I too am the husband of one (37 years). I am, However, a little older.

Scrat;745420 wrote: We control our actions, we make choices. We have that freedom the problem is people abuse the freedoms. A large part of it comes from selfishness and the lack of selflessness in society.


Here’s a theory to consider:

There was a time in our history when families were much larger. For the most part they stayed connected as a family seeing each other often, even daily. When that was the case the needs of others often came first. The older children took care of the younger ones because the parents couldn’t do it all. They learned to share and sacrifice because if they didn’t the whole family unit would suffer.

Today we have small families so the children can have a larger piece of the pie. We have become so self-centered innocent human life is taken before it sees the light of day so no one will have to sacrifice. Children don’t have to share anything with anybody. They are the center of attention in the family. Everything stops when they need or want something. They don’t share in the responsibility of ensuring the family unit survives. When they graduate from high school parents send them away to college or the military or anyplace so they can “enjoy the empty nest. We don’t have cohesive families any more.

Why are cohesive families who share and sacrifice for each other important? Because the family is a microcosm of society and it is where the rules of society are learned.

Now enter the alien from another country... They often come from or with large families. They are often poor and uneducated but they stick together. The social elites of this country look down their noses at them. They don’t want their values to be mainstreamed here so they isolate them by encouraging them to keep their native tongue which causes them to continue their struggle in poverty. Their poverty breeds resentment and their youth strike out, banding together to fight against their common oppressors. Misguided as they are in their youth, in their struggle for identity and control, they even fight against each other.

It is oil and water however, if the cultures mixed it could be synergetic. The ability to build wealth mixed and the ability to create valuable, long lasting social bonds could happen if only we could communicate with each other.

When you are making gravey you have to be careful not to add the flour to quickly. If you add it too quickly it makes the gravey lumpy. If you want to make it smooth after that's happened it requires some serious whipping.

Galbally;744332 wrote: .................................

....

....



I also have to say that mass migration and immigration is a big theme of our time, and one we deal with by not really dealing with it because of injustices of the past (or present), and also the PC sensibilities of our times. What the answers are I have no idea, as these are big questions and not ones that our easily answered. But I will say that its hard to expect people from other societies to have respect for our culture when we spend so much time attacking all aspects of it ourselves, sometimes for good reason, other times it seems just because its fashionable to do so, and a lot of that originates in America.



ed by/BTS color




God............ I wish I could have said it this way.

Right on the mark Galbally

You made me think......thanks................





Thinking:

So where does one draw the line between PC and harming a society?

[quote=Scrat;745529]

Remember when we went around about my dislike for America? This is the main reason why. I look at my wifes family and to say the least it is far and away better than any American family I know. The same goes for the Russian people I know, there family means something, honor means something. Honor is a word you hear daily there. In America it seems to me that having "honor" as opposed to having power and material things is strictly second.



quote]

So when you slam my country it is because you dislike how we do not hold our family dear as, say a Russian.....

You know scrat, you just might be right. and I am serious

Now we use to be a tight knit family say after WW11 but what happened?

I think Galaby has it right. PC has broken the family down (unless you are lucky enough to have families that refuse to bow to the PCer's)



And scrat, when we do joust about just how terrible the USA is, I do it to uphold her honor just as I would uphold my families honor.