What do you think about this?
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
Friday, October 26, 2007 11:11 PM
CHICAGO -- A 14-year-old girl and her outspoken atheist father filed a federal lawsuit Friday challenging a new Illinois law requiring a brief period of prayer or reflective silence at the start of every school day.
The lawsuit asks the court to declare the law unconstitutional, said attorney Gregory Kulis, who represents Dawn Sherman, a freshman at Buffalo Grove High School, and her father Robert Sherman, a radio talk show host.
Kulis said the law is an attempt to inject religion into public schools in violation of the First Amendment. The suit also seeks a temporary restraining order to halt schools' obeying the law until the case is decided. A judge will consider that request at a hearing Monday.
The lawsuit names Gov. Rod Blagojevich and officials of Township High School District 214 as defendants. School district spokeswoman Venetia Miles said schools will continue to comply with the law.
Blagojevich spokesman Abby Ottenhoff said the law was passed over the governor's veto.
''We don't believe requiring time for reflection is the role of government,'' Ottenhoff said.
Sherman said he went to court after he asked the school board to ignore the law and was rebuffed. The school district informed him it would carry out the moment of silence during third period, beginning Tuesday, the lawsuit said.
''What we object to is Christians passing a law that requires the public school teacher to stop teaching during instructional time, paid for by the taxpayers, so that Christians can pray,'' Sherman told The Associated Press.
An Illinois law called the Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act already allowed schools to observe a moment of silence if they wanted. A new measure changed just a single word: ''may'' observe became ''shall'' observe.
The Illinois law originally passed during the spring legislative session, but Blagojevich vetoed it, saying he had doubts about its constitutionality. Lawmakers overrode the veto this month.
It's not Sherman's first church-and-state lawsuit and not the first to involve his children. He has sought removal of religious symbols from city seals and a ban on Boy Scout meetings at public schools.
Some school administrators have complained the law is too ill-defined and puts many teachers and some students in an awkward position.
The Shermans may have legitimate concerns, but they are suing the wrong party when they target the school district, said Brian McCarthy, an attorney for the district.
''The General Assembly _ for better, worse, foolish or wise _ passed this law and it's not up to school districts to pick and choose which laws they follow,'' McCarthy said. ''He needs to go after the entity that enforces that law.''
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
-
RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
What do I think about the matter? I don't care one way or the other. I wonder why people want to take the time out of their precious day to object to this sort of thing, esp aetheists. No offense to atheists but why make a stink about something as trivial as this? Why not use this time to inform your child about the incredible diversity of spiritual faith, atheism being but one form(less) variety. Or, why not find an atheistic school to send your kid to that condones only work related material to be discussed at all times. Or if the dad feels so strongly about this moment of silence to dedicate to the gratitude someone might feel (though not sure if most kids would take this time seriously), why not homeschool?
Personally I feel much of the school day is already interrupted for housekeeping that breaks the flow of teaching, announcements and the pledge of allegiance are just a couple examples. A lot of time is wasted in most US public schools. Um, off the top of my head I'd say approximately 33% of the day is non-curriculum focused.
Erin
Personally I feel much of the school day is already interrupted for housekeeping that breaks the flow of teaching, announcements and the pledge of allegiance are just a couple examples. A lot of time is wasted in most US public schools. Um, off the top of my head I'd say approximately 33% of the day is non-curriculum focused.
Erin
-
Patsy Warnick
- Posts: 4567
- Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:53 am
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
My immediate reaction - frivolous
waste of time
Patsy
waste of time
Patsy
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
Patsy Warnick;713617 wrote: My immediate reaction - frivolous
waste of time
Patsy
D I T T O
waste of time
Patsy
D I T T O
The poolhall's a great equalizer. In the poolhall, nobody cares how old you are, how young you are, what color your skin is or how much money you've got in your pocket... It's about how you move. I remember this kid once who could move around a pool table like nobody had ever seen. Hour after hour, rack after rack, his shots just went in. The cue was part of his arm and the balls had eyes. And the thing that made him so good was... He thought he could never miss. I know, 'cause that kid was me.
-
RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
Hmm. I guess I'm the only one who liked it so far. :wah:
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
I agree with Patsy and Fibo!
"Girls are crazy! I'm not ever getting married, I can make my own sandwiches!"
my son
my son
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
Forcing your religious belief on anyone is never a good idea.
-
RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
If it wasn't for people like her father, these things would go unchallenged and we'd all be praying in school and in all our public affairs as as well. That to me would be highly offensive.
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
How is a moment of silence forcing one's Christian beliefs on others? The moment could be used to pray silently, or just to sit and think.
-
RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
Because people can think on their own time. Calling it reflection is just the pc way of covering up the fact that it's always been about prayer. I bolded the part that really is disturbing. It went from "may" do this to "shall" do this. That's sounds like nothing, I know, but it's dangerous territory.
-
LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
Oh for goodness sake!
Why is it Christians' have to make sure to be so very careful so as not to offend anyone in any way, shape, or form but have to listen to everyone else's freedom of whatever?
Why is it that we can not teach our children tolerance for those who believe differently then we do? I am sure that the children in this school tolerate the girl's atheist beliefs. (Did they even know about it or care before her Daddy decided to take the school district and other's to court?) Can't she tolerate a moment of silence for others?
Why is it Christians' have to make sure to be so very careful so as not to offend anyone in any way, shape, or form but have to listen to everyone else's freedom of whatever?
Why is it that we can not teach our children tolerance for those who believe differently then we do? I am sure that the children in this school tolerate the girl's atheist beliefs. (Did they even know about it or care before her Daddy decided to take the school district and other's to court?) Can't she tolerate a moment of silence for others?
Sandi
-
RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
LilacDragon;713839 wrote: Oh for goodness sake!
Why is it Christians' have to make sure to be so very careful so as not to offend anyone in any way, shape, or form but have to listen to everyone else's freedom of whatever?
Why is it that we can not teach our children tolerance for those who believe differently then we do? I am sure that the children in this school tolerate the girl's atheist beliefs. (Did they even know about it or care before her Daddy decided to take the school district and other's to court?) Can't she tolerate a moment of silence for others?
Who said it was about Christians? They're not the only ones who use prayer or "reflection." If you guys want your personal freedoms encroached upon, this is a good way to see that it happens but I for one, don't.
That's the cool thing about prayer- it's private, You can do it in your head, you can do it on your way to school.work.wherever and you don't need a special time allotment to do it.
Why is it Christians' have to make sure to be so very careful so as not to offend anyone in any way, shape, or form but have to listen to everyone else's freedom of whatever?
Why is it that we can not teach our children tolerance for those who believe differently then we do? I am sure that the children in this school tolerate the girl's atheist beliefs. (Did they even know about it or care before her Daddy decided to take the school district and other's to court?) Can't she tolerate a moment of silence for others?
Who said it was about Christians? They're not the only ones who use prayer or "reflection." If you guys want your personal freedoms encroached upon, this is a good way to see that it happens but I for one, don't.
That's the cool thing about prayer- it's private, You can do it in your head, you can do it on your way to school.work.wherever and you don't need a special time allotment to do it.
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
The gym I go to runs, among others, a great class in yoga-pilates-stretching which finishes with ten minutes of silent meditation/relaxation/contemplation/prayer/whatever you like. Sometimes I use it just to feel the rhythm of my breathing, sometimes I do meditate or even pray. I once dozed off. Very often I sort out my shopping list or plan the rest of my day. In any event, I find it a useful time. It's a short stocktaking moment between one lot of life's busy-ness and the next. Valuable. Maybe the kids need to be taught that the occasional spot of time-out can be their friend. They own it, they can use it however they like.
There are people who don't feel alive unless they are being activist in some way. Maybe they really fear silence.
There are people who don't feel alive unless they are being activist in some way. Maybe they really fear silence.
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"
-
LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
RedGlitter;713841 wrote: Who said it was about Christians? They're not the only ones who use prayer or "reflection." If you guys want your personal freedoms encroached upon, this is a good way to see that it happens but I for one, don't.
That's the cool thing about prayer- it's private, You can do it in your head, you can do it on your way to school.work.wherever and you don't need a special time allotment to do it.
You got me there. But I can't remember the last time someone brought a lawsuit against someone for a symbol of another major religion's holidays or phrases. And the fact of the matter is that a majority of Americans are Christians. But you can honestly slap the name of any religion you like in my statement.
TOLERANCE.
We have turned into such a ME society that we can't seem to remember manners or tolerance. If we can not TOLERATE someone's religious differences - how in the world can we expect to survive as a nation into the next millineum? Hell - will we make it to the next decade!
That's the cool thing about prayer- it's private, You can do it in your head, you can do it on your way to school.work.wherever and you don't need a special time allotment to do it.
You got me there. But I can't remember the last time someone brought a lawsuit against someone for a symbol of another major religion's holidays or phrases. And the fact of the matter is that a majority of Americans are Christians. But you can honestly slap the name of any religion you like in my statement.
TOLERANCE.
We have turned into such a ME society that we can't seem to remember manners or tolerance. If we can not TOLERATE someone's religious differences - how in the world can we expect to survive as a nation into the next millineum? Hell - will we make it to the next decade!
Sandi
-
RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
LilacDragon;713857 wrote: You got me there. But I can't remember the last time someone brought a lawsuit against someone for a symbol of another major religion's holidays or phrases. And the fact of the matter is that a majority of Americans are Christians. But you can honestly slap the name of any religion you like in my statement.
TOLERANCE.
We have turned into such a ME society that we can't seem to remember manners or tolerance. If we can not TOLERATE someone's religious differences - how in the world can we expect to survive as a nation into the next millineum? Hell - will we make it to the next decade!
That's why I think religion and private dealings with God (or whatever you choose) should remain just that- private. Tolerance goes both ways. By saying you "shall" have this moment, they're not showing respect for the other side. Shall means should and I reject to that. As far as most Americans being Christian, I don't actually know that. If we were all pagan, for instance, does that mean everyone should hold a candle ritual on school or work grounds because that's what pagans do? I mean I think you're implying that majority rules here and I don't think when it comes to religion, that should ever be the case.
TOLERANCE.
We have turned into such a ME society that we can't seem to remember manners or tolerance. If we can not TOLERATE someone's religious differences - how in the world can we expect to survive as a nation into the next millineum? Hell - will we make it to the next decade!
That's why I think religion and private dealings with God (or whatever you choose) should remain just that- private. Tolerance goes both ways. By saying you "shall" have this moment, they're not showing respect for the other side. Shall means should and I reject to that. As far as most Americans being Christian, I don't actually know that. If we were all pagan, for instance, does that mean everyone should hold a candle ritual on school or work grounds because that's what pagans do? I mean I think you're implying that majority rules here and I don't think when it comes to religion, that should ever be the case.
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
AussiePam;713854 wrote: The gym I go to runs, among others, a great class in yoga-pilates-stretching which finishes with ten minutes of silent meditation/relaxation/contemplation/prayer/whatever you like. Sometimes I use it just to feel the rhythm of my breathing, sometimes I do meditate or even pray. I once dozed off. Very often I sort out my shopping list or plan the rest of my day. In any event, I find it a useful time. It's a short stocktaking moment between one lot of life's busy-ness and the next. Valuable. Maybe the kids need to be taught that the occasional spot of time-out can be their friend. They own it, they can use it however they like.
There are people who don't feel alive unless they are being activist in some way. Maybe they really fear silence.
^^^Agree completely. The best point on the matter.^^
There are people who don't feel alive unless they are being activist in some way. Maybe they really fear silence.
^^^Agree completely. The best point on the matter.^^
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
If we ignore our own God(Gods, Goddesses, icons, etc) then aren't we setting a standard for disbelief in anything? Therefore, aren't we pandering to atheism which makes it unconstitutional? 
The absence of God, etc, is atheism and allowing that goes against the grain of church (churchlessness) and state.
In his case, no one wins except atheism. In the moment of silence, everyone wins. It doesn't say you have to pray to the Christian God, just have a moment of silence and reflect. What's the harm?
Probably gives the teacher a minute to catch their breath before teaching.
The absence of God, etc, is atheism and allowing that goes against the grain of church (churchlessness) and state.
In his case, no one wins except atheism. In the moment of silence, everyone wins. It doesn't say you have to pray to the Christian God, just have a moment of silence and reflect. What's the harm?
Probably gives the teacher a minute to catch their breath before teaching.
When choosing between two evils, I always like to take the one I've never tried before.
Mae West
Mae West
-
drumbunny1
- Posts: 189
- Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:29 am
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
How about that little girl or whoever doesn't want to participate in the moment of silence leave the room or go to the library or write...listen to music, etc. while everyone else is have their moment...granted its probably only 30 seconds long..that just makes it all the more ridiculous that someone would challenge it....true you shouldn't push your religious beliefs on someone....but if you don't allow those others to pray or have their silence arent' you infringing their rights as well? And I'm not particulary religious....thats just the way I see it!
-
RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
drumbunny1;714453 wrote: How about that little girl or whoever doesn't want to participate in the moment of silence leave the room or go to the library or write...listen to music, etc. while everyone else is have their moment...granted its probably only 30 seconds long..that just makes it all the more ridiculous that someone would challenge it....true you shouldn't push your religious beliefs on someone....but if you don't allow those others to pray or have their silence arent' you infringing their rights as well? And I'm not particulary religious....thats just the way I see it!
Not in the least. They can pray at home, on their way to school, in their own head. They do not require a special unit of time in which to do that.
Not in the least. They can pray at home, on their way to school, in their own head. They do not require a special unit of time in which to do that.
-
Uncle Kram
- Posts: 5991
- Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 12:34 pm
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
What's the problem?......it's only brainwashing. :rolleyes:
THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN PUN
-
trashcanman
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:11 pm
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
RedGlitter;713828 wrote: If it wasn't for people like her father, these things would go unchallenged and we'd all be praying in school and in all our public affairs as as well. That to me would be highly offensive.
Not trying to be rude, but just about everything offends you, doesnt it?
Not trying to be rude, but just about everything offends you, doesnt it?
-
RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
trashcanman;716571 wrote: Not trying to be rude, but just about everything offends you, doesnt it?
Hmm.....odd name, 8 posts.....rude comment....you must be one of our "regulars!" :wah:
Hmm.....odd name, 8 posts.....rude comment....you must be one of our "regulars!" :wah:
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
trashcanman;716571 wrote: Not trying to be rude, but just about everything offends you, doesnt it?
Hmmmm Red
What's rude about his question.......
or is just it that his arrow hit its mark?
Your quote below was MUCH ruder to one of our new Gardeners I think!!!
redglitter said:
"Hmm.....odd name, 8 posts.....rude comment....you must be one of our "regulars!" :wah:"
Hmmmm Red
What's rude about his question.......
or is just it that his arrow hit its mark?
Your quote below was MUCH ruder to one of our new Gardeners I think!!!
redglitter said:
"Hmm.....odd name, 8 posts.....rude comment....you must be one of our "regulars!" :wah:"
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
OOPSIES.........
I forgot to include what the trashman was replying to:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedGlitter
If it wasn't for people like her father, these things would go unchallenged and we'd all be praying in school and in all our public affairs as as well. That to me would be highly offensive.
I forgot to include what the trashman was replying to:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedGlitter
If it wasn't for people like her father, these things would go unchallenged and we'd all be praying in school and in all our public affairs as as well. That to me would be highly offensive.
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
-
RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
BTS, what's your point?
And no, I've seen TrashCanMan around and he gives as good as he gets. Check some other posts.
And no, I've seen TrashCanMan around and he gives as good as he gets. Check some other posts.
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
So Red............
I ask, where in the Constitution are the words "separation of church and state"?
Where?
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . . ."
Taking this one step further.....
Your view on Christmas.........
Definition:
Christmas is an annual holiday that marks the birth of Jesus of Nazareth. Christmas celebrations often combine the marking of Jesus' birth with various other traditions and customs, many of which were influenced by ancient winter festivals. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas
Should we get rid of it because of its religious roots?
I bet you agree with ALL of these if you are against a MOMENT of silnence:
In Memphis, Tenn., library officials told a woman that she could place a nativity scene on the community shelves, as long as it did not include the "inappropriate" figures of the baby Jesus, Joseph, Mary, and the wise men (www.telladf.org/news/pressrelease.aspx?cid=3617). Library officials subsequently changed their minds and agreed to allow the figures as part of the displayed nativity scene; however, ADF attorneys are continuing to monitor the situation to make sure the library permanently changes its policy so that it is in accord with the Constitution.
In Mine Hill, N.J., Canfield Avenue School officials altered the words to the popular hymn "Silent Night" for their holiday concert, changing them from "Silent night, holy night" to "Silent night, winter night" (www.telladf.org/news/pressrelease.aspx?cid=3632).
In Northridge, Calif., school officials refused to allow the Good News Club at Andasol Elementary School to sing "Silent Night" or "Joy to the World" at the school's "Holiday Concert" because the songs "refer to God."
In Monona, Wis., the manager of a retirement community that received some government grant money ordered the removal or covering of any religious Christmas decorations, such as those that depicted a nativity scene, angels, or the words "Merry Christmas" (www.telladf.org/UserDocs/GieseLetter.pdf). Residents restored their religious decorations after reportedly being told by the foundation that owns the building and by the office of U.S. Sen. Russ Feingold that they should ignore the order and display their decorations. You better look out because The Aliance Defence Fund is getting many of the ACLU's garbage OVERTURNED!!!!!!!!!
Attacks on Christmas
While the majority of our nation celebrates Christmas, over the past several years, the ACLU and its allies have been working overtime to censor seasonal religious expression. These organizations falsely claim that it violates the so-called "separation of church and state."
The following press releases provide real-life examples of cases and situations in which ADF and its allies defended religious expression at Christmastime.
Room at the rotunda: ADF attorneys ensure nativity can be displayed in Wash. State Capitol building- 10/17/2007
A man barred from placing a nativity scene in the Washington State Capitol rotunda last year will no longer face opposition from state officials. ADF attorneys filed a lawsuit last year after state officials denied the request but allowed a menorah and a “holiday tree to be displayed. The parties settled the suit, allowing Ron Wesselius to display a nativity scene on behalf of citizens who celebrate Christmas. read more...
Backed by ADF, first-grade student now permitted to share Christmas song with classmates - 12/15/2006
Initially denied the right by school officials to share a Christmas song with his classmates during “show and tell, a first-grade student has been permitted to participate after an Alliance Defense Fund attorney sent a letter on his behalf to Los Angeles Unified School District Superintendent Jean Brown. read more...
Menorah, yes; crèche, no: New York village officials deny resident opportunity to display nativity - 12/11/2006
Acting on behalf of a local resident, Alliance Defense Fund attorneys and allied attorneys are seeking a temporary restraining order against officials in the Village of Briarcliff Manor who refuse to allow a crèche display in a public park. The attorneys filed their TRO motion today after filing a complaint in federal court Friday against the village’s board of trustees and its manager. read more...
Should we not also ban all dollar bills because the say "IN GOD WE TRUST"?
Question?
Was this country not founded on religous beliefs?
Sheesh what a can-o-worms!!!!!!!!!
I ask, where in the Constitution are the words "separation of church and state"?
Where?
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . . ."
Taking this one step further.....
Your view on Christmas.........
Definition:
Christmas is an annual holiday that marks the birth of Jesus of Nazareth. Christmas celebrations often combine the marking of Jesus' birth with various other traditions and customs, many of which were influenced by ancient winter festivals. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas
Should we get rid of it because of its religious roots?
I bet you agree with ALL of these if you are against a MOMENT of silnence:
In Memphis, Tenn., library officials told a woman that she could place a nativity scene on the community shelves, as long as it did not include the "inappropriate" figures of the baby Jesus, Joseph, Mary, and the wise men (www.telladf.org/news/pressrelease.aspx?cid=3617). Library officials subsequently changed their minds and agreed to allow the figures as part of the displayed nativity scene; however, ADF attorneys are continuing to monitor the situation to make sure the library permanently changes its policy so that it is in accord with the Constitution.
In Mine Hill, N.J., Canfield Avenue School officials altered the words to the popular hymn "Silent Night" for their holiday concert, changing them from "Silent night, holy night" to "Silent night, winter night" (www.telladf.org/news/pressrelease.aspx?cid=3632).
In Northridge, Calif., school officials refused to allow the Good News Club at Andasol Elementary School to sing "Silent Night" or "Joy to the World" at the school's "Holiday Concert" because the songs "refer to God."
In Monona, Wis., the manager of a retirement community that received some government grant money ordered the removal or covering of any religious Christmas decorations, such as those that depicted a nativity scene, angels, or the words "Merry Christmas" (www.telladf.org/UserDocs/GieseLetter.pdf). Residents restored their religious decorations after reportedly being told by the foundation that owns the building and by the office of U.S. Sen. Russ Feingold that they should ignore the order and display their decorations. You better look out because The Aliance Defence Fund is getting many of the ACLU's garbage OVERTURNED!!!!!!!!!
Attacks on Christmas
While the majority of our nation celebrates Christmas, over the past several years, the ACLU and its allies have been working overtime to censor seasonal religious expression. These organizations falsely claim that it violates the so-called "separation of church and state."
The following press releases provide real-life examples of cases and situations in which ADF and its allies defended religious expression at Christmastime.
Room at the rotunda: ADF attorneys ensure nativity can be displayed in Wash. State Capitol building- 10/17/2007
A man barred from placing a nativity scene in the Washington State Capitol rotunda last year will no longer face opposition from state officials. ADF attorneys filed a lawsuit last year after state officials denied the request but allowed a menorah and a “holiday tree to be displayed. The parties settled the suit, allowing Ron Wesselius to display a nativity scene on behalf of citizens who celebrate Christmas. read more...
Backed by ADF, first-grade student now permitted to share Christmas song with classmates - 12/15/2006
Initially denied the right by school officials to share a Christmas song with his classmates during “show and tell, a first-grade student has been permitted to participate after an Alliance Defense Fund attorney sent a letter on his behalf to Los Angeles Unified School District Superintendent Jean Brown. read more...
Menorah, yes; crèche, no: New York village officials deny resident opportunity to display nativity - 12/11/2006
Acting on behalf of a local resident, Alliance Defense Fund attorneys and allied attorneys are seeking a temporary restraining order against officials in the Village of Briarcliff Manor who refuse to allow a crèche display in a public park. The attorneys filed their TRO motion today after filing a complaint in federal court Friday against the village’s board of trustees and its manager. read more...
Should we not also ban all dollar bills because the say "IN GOD WE TRUST"?
Question?
Was this country not founded on religous beliefs?
Sheesh what a can-o-worms!!!!!!!!!
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
Scrat;716801 wrote:
Religion causes enough trouble in the world. We certainly don't need it to be spreading.
so lets ban it all?
How about banning colors too?
RED AND GREEN
You might say colors!!!!!!
Yes I say colors............
A special task force in a Colorado city has recommended banning red and green lights at the Christmas holiday because they fall among the items that are too religious for the city to sponser.
"Some symbols, even though the Supreme Court has declared that in many contexts they are secular symbols, often still send a message to some members of the community that they and their traditions are not valued and not wanted. We don't want to send that message," Seth Anthony, a spokesman for the committee, told the Fort Collins, Colo., Coloradoan.
He said the recommended language does not specifically address Christmas trees by name, but the consensus was that they would not fall within acceptable decorations.
What will be allowed are white lights and "secular" symbols not associated "with any particular holiday" such as icicles, unadorned greenery and snowflakes, the task force said.
The group was made up of members of the city's business and religious communities as well as representatives from some community groups. Members met for months to review the existing holiday display policy, which allowed white as well as multi-colored lights and wreaths and garlands. Story continues
Religion causes enough trouble in the world. We certainly don't need it to be spreading.
so lets ban it all?
How about banning colors too?
RED AND GREEN
You might say colors!!!!!!
Yes I say colors............
A special task force in a Colorado city has recommended banning red and green lights at the Christmas holiday because they fall among the items that are too religious for the city to sponser.
"Some symbols, even though the Supreme Court has declared that in many contexts they are secular symbols, often still send a message to some members of the community that they and their traditions are not valued and not wanted. We don't want to send that message," Seth Anthony, a spokesman for the committee, told the Fort Collins, Colo., Coloradoan.
He said the recommended language does not specifically address Christmas trees by name, but the consensus was that they would not fall within acceptable decorations.
What will be allowed are white lights and "secular" symbols not associated "with any particular holiday" such as icicles, unadorned greenery and snowflakes, the task force said.
The group was made up of members of the city's business and religious communities as well as representatives from some community groups. Members met for months to review the existing holiday display policy, which allowed white as well as multi-colored lights and wreaths and garlands. Story continues
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
-
History buff
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:11 am
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
LilacDragon;713857 wrote:
snipped
But I can't remember the last time someone brought a lawsuit against someone for a symbol of another major religion's holidays or phrases.
Ponder this: 42 USC 666 permits states to require an applicant to provide a Social Security when applying for a driver's license, etc. Lawsuits have been filed to challenge this under the Free Exercise clause of the 1st AM. Applying for such SS # is akin to damnation as adhering to the mark of beast, 666!
The 1st AM is litigated on a consistent basis.
snipped
But I can't remember the last time someone brought a lawsuit against someone for a symbol of another major religion's holidays or phrases.
Ponder this: 42 USC 666 permits states to require an applicant to provide a Social Security when applying for a driver's license, etc. Lawsuits have been filed to challenge this under the Free Exercise clause of the 1st AM. Applying for such SS # is akin to damnation as adhering to the mark of beast, 666!
The 1st AM is litigated on a consistent basis.
-
History buff
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:11 am
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
BTS;716800 wrote: So Red............
I ask, where in the Constitution are the words "separation of church and state"?
Where?
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . . ."
Facially it is not, it has been indoctrinated by the courts as Constitutional law, such as the right to privacy, such as concerning married couples using contraceptives, that is, a state can not criminalize it, abortion to such and such stage, etc.
Also a state can not criminalize sodomy under the federal constitution, but that is not written directly either.
I ask, where in the Constitution are the words "separation of church and state"?
Where?
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . . ."
Facially it is not, it has been indoctrinated by the courts as Constitutional law, such as the right to privacy, such as concerning married couples using contraceptives, that is, a state can not criminalize it, abortion to such and such stage, etc.
Also a state can not criminalize sodomy under the federal constitution, but that is not written directly either.
-
History buff
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:11 am
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
RedGlitter;713612 wrote: What do you think about this?
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
RG, I used to be friends with a teacher and was always looking up school law to impress her.
I just had to remember the case name, and it came to me.
I am familiar with the Bown case out of the 11th Circuit, which is only binding in the 11th. I do not know if it was appealed to the USSC or not. If it was, it was not granted review/certiorari and reversed, or such similar laws would not be able to be passed.
The 11th ruled ALL 3 prongs of the "Lemon" test, named after the seminal case, were satisfied by "Georgia's Moment of Quiet Reflection in Schools Act ("the Act"). and held it to be constitutional.
I believe this lawsuit will be fatally defective.
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/o ... 95.OPN.pdf
By the way, here is the Lemon case referenced:
Syllabus:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/h ... 02_ZS.html
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
RG, I used to be friends with a teacher and was always looking up school law to impress her.
I just had to remember the case name, and it came to me.
I am familiar with the Bown case out of the 11th Circuit, which is only binding in the 11th. I do not know if it was appealed to the USSC or not. If it was, it was not granted review/certiorari and reversed, or such similar laws would not be able to be passed.
The 11th ruled ALL 3 prongs of the "Lemon" test, named after the seminal case, were satisfied by "Georgia's Moment of Quiet Reflection in Schools Act ("the Act"). and held it to be constitutional.
I believe this lawsuit will be fatally defective.
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/o ... 95.OPN.pdf
By the way, here is the Lemon case referenced:
Syllabus:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/h ... 02_ZS.html
-
lemon_and_mint
- Posts: 928
- Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:04 pm
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
I see there are no replies from the Brits here -
If I understand correctly from what has been said by the americans here, this is the first time you have had prayers within schools?(sorry if i misunderstand)
I do not know if it is still done but every single school day in Britain used to start with half an hour of prayers and religious service.During that time, parents were able to state that their child was of a different religion and would not take part - these children read a ook in ythe library, or played together during the service.
Occassionally you would find an elnlightened parent who would state that even though their family was of a different religion they wished their child to observe another faith in action - those children would attend the service.I presume that during the prayers while we were silent and prayed to our god, they prayed to their god - maybe thanking them for the opportunity to see a christian prayer service.
With all the hostility nowadays in the name of religin i find it very very unfortunate that the christians never had the opportunity to attend the religious service of muslims in the same way.
i find this mans actions incomprehensible.
If I understand correctly from what has been said by the americans here, this is the first time you have had prayers within schools?(sorry if i misunderstand)
I do not know if it is still done but every single school day in Britain used to start with half an hour of prayers and religious service.During that time, parents were able to state that their child was of a different religion and would not take part - these children read a ook in ythe library, or played together during the service.
Occassionally you would find an elnlightened parent who would state that even though their family was of a different religion they wished their child to observe another faith in action - those children would attend the service.I presume that during the prayers while we were silent and prayed to our god, they prayed to their god - maybe thanking them for the opportunity to see a christian prayer service.
With all the hostility nowadays in the name of religin i find it very very unfortunate that the christians never had the opportunity to attend the religious service of muslims in the same way.
i find this mans actions incomprehensible.
-
WonderWendy3
- Posts: 12412
- Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:44 am
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
Peg;713834 wrote: How is a moment of silence forcing one's Christian beliefs on others? The moment could be used to pray silently, or just to sit and think. Thank you....I agree!
lemon_and_mint;745856 wrote: I see there are no replies from the Brits here -
If I understand correctly from what has been said by the americans here, this is the first time you have had prayers within schools?(sorry if i misunderstand)
I do not know if it is still done but every single school day in Britain used to start with half an hour of prayers and religious service.During that time, parents were able to state that their child was of a different religion and would not take part - these children read a ook in ythe library, or played together during the service.
Occassionally you would find an elnlightened parent who would state that even though their family was of a different religion they wished their child to observe another faith in action - those children would attend the service.I presume that during the prayers while we were silent and prayed to our god, they prayed to their god - maybe thanking them for the opportunity to see a christian prayer service.
With all the hostility nowadays in the name of religin i find it very very unfortunate that the christians never had the opportunity to attend the religious service of muslims in the same way.
i find this mans actions incomprehensible.
Okay, I've read this whole thread and of course, my blood is boiling at this point, but that isn't important....all that kept coming to my mind was "Madalyn O'Hare would be just as happy as pig eating slop right now"....
Lemon and Mint, to answer your question, We used to have Prayer time in schools until the 60's and a woman by the name of Madayln Murray O'Hare went to the Supreme court to get daily prayer out of schools.
http://www.who2.com/madalynmurrayohair.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madalyn_Murray_O'Hair
I went to church with her son, who is a devout christian now, and speaks against everything his mother believed in.
I disagree with Mr. Sherman, when I read the article by the OP, I thought, (other than another Madelyn) what a big whiney baby.
I am tired of everyone complaining that they don't have rights to do what they want....darnit, I am offended by certain things in our culture and if I complain....I'm an extreme right winged closed-minded brainwashed Christain....
I am a Christian and I believe 100% in prayer and meditation in schools, we didn't have to have police standing guard when there was prayers in schools, ever think about that?
lemon_and_mint;745856 wrote: I see there are no replies from the Brits here -
If I understand correctly from what has been said by the americans here, this is the first time you have had prayers within schools?(sorry if i misunderstand)
I do not know if it is still done but every single school day in Britain used to start with half an hour of prayers and religious service.During that time, parents were able to state that their child was of a different religion and would not take part - these children read a ook in ythe library, or played together during the service.
Occassionally you would find an elnlightened parent who would state that even though their family was of a different religion they wished their child to observe another faith in action - those children would attend the service.I presume that during the prayers while we were silent and prayed to our god, they prayed to their god - maybe thanking them for the opportunity to see a christian prayer service.
With all the hostility nowadays in the name of religin i find it very very unfortunate that the christians never had the opportunity to attend the religious service of muslims in the same way.
i find this mans actions incomprehensible.
Okay, I've read this whole thread and of course, my blood is boiling at this point, but that isn't important....all that kept coming to my mind was "Madalyn O'Hare would be just as happy as pig eating slop right now"....
Lemon and Mint, to answer your question, We used to have Prayer time in schools until the 60's and a woman by the name of Madayln Murray O'Hare went to the Supreme court to get daily prayer out of schools.
http://www.who2.com/madalynmurrayohair.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madalyn_Murray_O'Hair
I went to church with her son, who is a devout christian now, and speaks against everything his mother believed in.
I disagree with Mr. Sherman, when I read the article by the OP, I thought, (other than another Madelyn) what a big whiney baby.
I am tired of everyone complaining that they don't have rights to do what they want....darnit, I am offended by certain things in our culture and if I complain....I'm an extreme right winged closed-minded brainwashed Christain....
I am a Christian and I believe 100% in prayer and meditation in schools, we didn't have to have police standing guard when there was prayers in schools, ever think about that?
-
RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
Oh please. 
-
RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
RedGlitter;746115 wrote: Oh please.
That's going to look sarcastic so I'll try to clarify what I mean.
I don't think prayer in schools is going to stop the shootings.
I realize you are christian but I don't understand why your blood would be boiling over anything said here. Are we not ALL allowed to our opinions? As much as I disagree with the christian concepts offered here I don't have problems with those who hold them.
O'Hare was a deeply unlikable person, granted but not because she was an atheist. I don't think she was wrong to try to remove prayer from schools. Why should the praying person's "rights" be any more important than the non praying person's "rights"? Why can't people pray in their own mind? I have always been able to and never required a separate special public minute to talk with God so I don't understand anyone else's need to or their complaint about doing so? What exactly is the complaint about that?
That's going to look sarcastic so I'll try to clarify what I mean.
I don't think prayer in schools is going to stop the shootings.
I realize you are christian but I don't understand why your blood would be boiling over anything said here. Are we not ALL allowed to our opinions? As much as I disagree with the christian concepts offered here I don't have problems with those who hold them.
O'Hare was a deeply unlikable person, granted but not because she was an atheist. I don't think she was wrong to try to remove prayer from schools. Why should the praying person's "rights" be any more important than the non praying person's "rights"? Why can't people pray in their own mind? I have always been able to and never required a separate special public minute to talk with God so I don't understand anyone else's need to or their complaint about doing so? What exactly is the complaint about that?
-
lemon_and_mint
- Posts: 928
- Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:04 pm
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
what i dont understand is why must the propsed moments of silence be about prayer, in any religion?
Maybe they are proposing a few minutes beofre the day begins in which everyone can take a few minutes to chill out, think about what they are going to do in the day, pray if they want to etc.
Or have they definately said that it must be that those minuted are used for christian prayer?
Maybe they are proposing a few minutes beofre the day begins in which everyone can take a few minutes to chill out, think about what they are going to do in the day, pray if they want to etc.
Or have they definately said that it must be that those minuted are used for christian prayer?
-
RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
lemon_and_mint;746133 wrote: what i dont understand is why must the propsed moments of silence be about prayer, in any religion?
Maybe they are proposing a few minutes beofre the day begins in which everyone can take a few minutes to chill out, think about what they are going to do in the day, pray if they want to etc.
Or have they definately said that it must be that those minuted are used for christian prayer?
An Illinois law called the Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act already allowed schools to observe a moment of silence if they wanted. A new measure changed just a single word: ''may'' observe became ''shall'' observe.
Reflection is their pc term for prayer. It's always been about prayer specifically even though they've tried to pass it off as meditation and reflection. I would ask why must we do that in school? It can be done on the way to school, done at home, done before you even get out of bed. Done at recess, done at lunch hour, done between classes, all without involving anyone else.
Maybe they are proposing a few minutes beofre the day begins in which everyone can take a few minutes to chill out, think about what they are going to do in the day, pray if they want to etc.
Or have they definately said that it must be that those minuted are used for christian prayer?
An Illinois law called the Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act already allowed schools to observe a moment of silence if they wanted. A new measure changed just a single word: ''may'' observe became ''shall'' observe.
Reflection is their pc term for prayer. It's always been about prayer specifically even though they've tried to pass it off as meditation and reflection. I would ask why must we do that in school? It can be done on the way to school, done at home, done before you even get out of bed. Done at recess, done at lunch hour, done between classes, all without involving anyone else.
-
lemon_and_mint
- Posts: 928
- Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:04 pm
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
RedGlitter;746147 wrote:
An Illinois law called the Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act already allowed schools to observe a moment of silence if they wanted. A new measure changed just a single word: ''may'' observe became ''shall'' observe.
Reflection is their pc term for prayer. It's always been about prayer specifically even though they've tried to pass it off as meditation and reflection. I would ask why must we do that in school? It can be done on the way to school, done at home, done before you even get out of bed. Done at recess, done at lunch hour, done between classes, all without involving anyone else.
Thanks red, I hadnt understood that reflection is pc word for prayer.
In that case, i agree with you.You dont have to go to a special place of worship to pray, as you say, you can pray anywhere anytime.
But on the other hand i dont disagree with having a time in which to pray either.
I am pretty neutral about it.
An Illinois law called the Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act already allowed schools to observe a moment of silence if they wanted. A new measure changed just a single word: ''may'' observe became ''shall'' observe.
Reflection is their pc term for prayer. It's always been about prayer specifically even though they've tried to pass it off as meditation and reflection. I would ask why must we do that in school? It can be done on the way to school, done at home, done before you even get out of bed. Done at recess, done at lunch hour, done between classes, all without involving anyone else.
Thanks red, I hadnt understood that reflection is pc word for prayer.
In that case, i agree with you.You dont have to go to a special place of worship to pray, as you say, you can pray anywhere anytime.
But on the other hand i dont disagree with having a time in which to pray either.
I am pretty neutral about it.
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
It's what a minute out of a kids school day. I don't see the point in arguing about it.
"Girls are crazy! I'm not ever getting married, I can make my own sandwiches!"
my son
my son
-
RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
Sheryl;746151 wrote: It's what a minute out of a kids school day. I don't see the point in arguing about it.
It's the principle of it. You don't like being told you can't pray and we don;t like being told we have to honor it. It's interesting you say that though as I've often wondered what kind of "reflection" you can get done in a minute's worth of time.
I don't think anyone here's arguing. I thought we were discussing. That's why I came back to say more to WW, because I didn't want her to think we were having an argument.
It's the principle of it. You don't like being told you can't pray and we don;t like being told we have to honor it. It's interesting you say that though as I've often wondered what kind of "reflection" you can get done in a minute's worth of time.
I don't think anyone here's arguing. I thought we were discussing. That's why I came back to say more to WW, because I didn't want her to think we were having an argument.
-
lemon_and_mint
- Posts: 928
- Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:04 pm
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
RedGlitter;746155 wrote: It's the principle of it. You don't like being told you can't pray and we don;t like being told we have to honor it. It's interesting you say that though as I've often wondered what kind of "reflection" you can get done in a minute's worth of time.
I don't think anyone here's arguing. I thought we were discussing. That's why I came back to say more to WW, because I didn't want her to think we were having an argument.
then again though, i don't think god minds whether you just tzake a second to say "hi god it's me, bye", or take an hour to tell him everything youve done that morning, i cant see that he could mind.
I don't think anyone here's arguing. I thought we were discussing. That's why I came back to say more to WW, because I didn't want her to think we were having an argument.
then again though, i don't think god minds whether you just tzake a second to say "hi god it's me, bye", or take an hour to tell him everything youve done that morning, i cant see that he could mind.
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
lemon_and_mint;745856 wrote: I do not know if it is still done but every single school day in Britain used to start with half an hour of prayers and religious service.
Not in Scotland - unless you were unlucky enough to attend a faith school -which in effect meant a Catholic school.
Those of us who came through the state schools had to endure a period of "religious instruction" otherwise known as brainwashing for about 45 minutes per week.
I think the this case turns on the phrase Red quoted:- "may'' observe became ''shall'' observe. This removes all personal choice and enforces compliance. To me that is removing civil rights.
Now, I'm not a religious person, but if I were I would be breaking this law every chance I got.
Not in Scotland - unless you were unlucky enough to attend a faith school -which in effect meant a Catholic school.
Those of us who came through the state schools had to endure a period of "religious instruction" otherwise known as brainwashing for about 45 minutes per week.
I think the this case turns on the phrase Red quoted:- "may'' observe became ''shall'' observe. This removes all personal choice and enforces compliance. To me that is removing civil rights.
Now, I'm not a religious person, but if I were I would be breaking this law every chance I got.
An ye harm none, do what ye will....
-
lemon_and_mint
- Posts: 928
- Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:04 pm
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
Chookie;746161 wrote: Not in Scotland - unless you were unlucky enough to attend a faith school -which in effect meant a Catholic school.
Those of us who came through the state schools had to endure a period of "religious instruction" otherwise known as brainwashing for about 45 minutes per week.
I think the this case turns on the phrase Red quoted:- "may'' observe became ''shall'' observe. This removes all personal choice and enforces compliance. To me that is removing civil rights.
Now, I'm not a religious person, but if I were I would be breaking this law every chance I got.
sorry, chookie, my mistake, england then.All schools, not just faith schools.
And yes, it hinges on the shall and the may.Very very subtle that change.
Those of us who came through the state schools had to endure a period of "religious instruction" otherwise known as brainwashing for about 45 minutes per week.
I think the this case turns on the phrase Red quoted:- "may'' observe became ''shall'' observe. This removes all personal choice and enforces compliance. To me that is removing civil rights.
Now, I'm not a religious person, but if I were I would be breaking this law every chance I got.
sorry, chookie, my mistake, england then.All schools, not just faith schools.
And yes, it hinges on the shall and the may.Very very subtle that change.
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
For me, it begs the question, is there anything at all that can't be challenged in our schools? Doesn't every subject or activity contain some degree of inherent bias, be it religious, scientific or political? Maybe we should stop being quite so picky about it all. After all we grow up and then we can make up our own minds. I found religious education at school totally uninspiring and boring, as I did science, but both gave me a starting point to form my own beliefs.
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
RedGlitter;746155 wrote: It's the principle of it. You don't like being told you can't pray and we don;t like being told we have to honor it. It's interesting you say that though as I've often wondered what kind of "reflection" you can get done in a minute's worth of time.
I don't think anyone here's arguing. I thought we were discussing. That's why I came back to say more to WW, because I didn't want her to think we were having an argument.
Yes but it's a moment of silence, not a moment of prayer. I just think some kid is whining to whine. No one is forcing anyone to pray. It's just a minute, 60 seconds, for someone to be quiet. Pick your nose if you don't wanna pray, I don't care, just quit your griping. :rolleyes:
I don't think anyone here's arguing. I thought we were discussing. That's why I came back to say more to WW, because I didn't want her to think we were having an argument.
Yes but it's a moment of silence, not a moment of prayer. I just think some kid is whining to whine. No one is forcing anyone to pray. It's just a minute, 60 seconds, for someone to be quiet. Pick your nose if you don't wanna pray, I don't care, just quit your griping. :rolleyes:
"Girls are crazy! I'm not ever getting married, I can make my own sandwiches!"
my son
my son
-
RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
I could say "quit your griping" to the prayer crowd and what kind of reaction would that garner? :rolleyes:
No, it's another way to move us into dangerous territory...first prayer in school (and in was only called moment of silence in answer to the people who objected to its true intended reason) and then Adam and Eve in the classroom and then the school staff telling your kid what to think.
Thea, I think when we stop questioning and stop what others would call our "whining or griping", we might as well stop having independent thinking, and personal civil rights.
No, it's another way to move us into dangerous territory...first prayer in school (and in was only called moment of silence in answer to the people who objected to its true intended reason) and then Adam and Eve in the classroom and then the school staff telling your kid what to think.
Thea, I think when we stop questioning and stop what others would call our "whining or griping", we might as well stop having independent thinking, and personal civil rights.
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
And we don't have teachers shoving their beliefs down kids throats already?
Here's the way I see it. Some of those who do not believe want folks to respect their non belief, yet they can't find any respect for those who do believe. That in my opinion is what it has all boiled down to. In fact I think there will always be a fight about this or that in schools, until we are back to segregated schools.
Here's the way I see it. Some of those who do not believe want folks to respect their non belief, yet they can't find any respect for those who do believe. That in my opinion is what it has all boiled down to. In fact I think there will always be a fight about this or that in schools, until we are back to segregated schools.
"Girls are crazy! I'm not ever getting married, I can make my own sandwiches!"
my son
my son
-
RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Teen Challenges Moment-Of-Silence Law
I understand your position. Well, I happen to be a believer but even I don't see a need for public prayer. School is for teaching, church and home are for praying, that's my way of seeing it. I think the respect was built in just fine when we had "separation of church and state" but the combining of the two can only lead to a huge mess and already is.