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Elite British soldiers in Iraq subjected their comrades to humilating initiation ceremonies which included dowsing victims in urine and faces, a court martial heard yesterday.

A Commando accused of carrying out one of the rituals claimed that the practice, known as ''japping'', was common, both at his unit's home base and on missions abroad.

Independent News UK.

capt_buzzard wrote: Independent News UK.


Pah. I might have known - the "Independent" can't splee, it seems to be usurping the Grauniad when it comes to that.

Been going on for years Capn, the rougher the unit the worse it is.

Bothwell wrote: Been going on for years Capn, the rougher the unit the worse it is.


It also "goes on " in Rugger circles, certain colleges, etc.

It may or may not Bill go on in "Rugger" circles (I understand the implicit tone) etc but the army is slightly different, there always has been a certain "Blind Eye" applied by officers to this sort of thing, their belief would be that combat troops need toughening up and would face far worse under interrogation (see Guantanamo bay). I believe that it is also used by troops to test the mettle of their fellow combatants, it is a strange one to deal with really. I am not sure that "Normal" behaviour applies to combat soldiers as having to kill your fellow man is not "Normal".

Bill Sikes wrote: It also "goes on " in Rugger circles, certain colleges, etc.Oh I know that Bill.

Bothwell wrote: It may or may not Bill go on in "Rugger" circles (I understand the implicit tone) etc but the army is slightly different, there always has been a certain "Blind Eye" applied by officers to this sort of thing, their belief would be that combat troops need toughening up and would face far worse under interrogation (see Guantanamo bay). I believe that it is also used by troops to test the mettle of their fellow combatants, it is a strange one to deal with really. I am not sure that "Normal" behaviour applies to combat soldiers as having to kill your fellow man is not "Normal".
you know this actually makes sense to me...same with the coppers, you have to know your partner or fellow is able to "take it". when in academy or regular inservice training, we tend to beat each other to a fare-thee-well in defensive tactics. and put each other out cold with some maneuvers. we shoot each other with "simunition"(which HURTS and leaves bruises) and pepper spray each other, as well as gas each other in SWAT training. it's not shocking to me that anyone in life-or-death professions like soldiering can be brutal. but the guy who may have pissed on you, may be the one who backs you up and saves your life.

It goes on in most fraternities today. Went on in my college days back in the 50s many many moons ago now.

capt_buzzard wrote: It goes on in most fraternities today. Went on in my college days back in the 50s many many moons ago now.
Sorry, the rough, and by some standards brutal interplay is fine, and endengers respect, the humiliation of being pissed on, or raped, is damn sure not going to increase anybody's trust or respect.

Der Wulf wrote: Sorry, the rough, and by some standards brutal interplay is fine, and endengers respect, the humiliation of being pissed on, or raped, is damn sure not going to increase anybody's trust or respect.:(And have a Wulf set on ya:yh_nailbi