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When to have sex. Not to kill her own baby. She made the choice when she spread her legs.

you ignorant twat pity ya mum didnt make the same choice

Irmin;685542 wrote: When to have sex. Not to kill her own baby. She made the choice when she spread her legs.


Oh here we go again:mad:

el guapo;685585 wrote: you ignorant twat pity ya mum didnt make the same choice


that's not going to win any arguments, jesse.

so far, irmin has one point you have zero.

as far as "infractable" posts go, irmin made a general statement. you attacked him personally. you are on thinner ice right now than he is.

koan;685596 wrote: that's not going to win any arguments, jesse.

so far, irmin has one point you have zero.

as far as "infractable" posts go, irmin made a general statement. you attacked him personally. you are on thinner ice right now than he is.


like i care

was saying his mum had the same choice pity the one she made

he insults all female members here

i just insult ignorance

Irmin;685542 wrote: When to have sex. Not to kill her own baby. She made the choice when she spread her legs.




how about she was raped and had that choice taken from her

el guapo;685597 wrote: like i care

was saying his mum had the same choice pity the one she made

he insults all female members here

i just insult ignorance


some females agree with him.

I'm not one of them but he is not alone in his reasoning. Point out the flaw in his logic and you will earn more points than him and feasibly win the "debate" otherwise, ignore what annoys you.

I am female and I haven't elected you to defend my honour.

jimbo;685599 wrote: how about she was raped and had that choice taken from her


bravo.

that's the first, really obvious, flaw in the argument.

jimbo;685599 wrote: how about she was raped and had that choice taken from her


becarful

koan;685600 wrote: some females agree with him.

I'm not one of them but he is not alone in his reasoning. Point out the flaw in his logic and you will earn more points than him and feasibly win the "debate" otherwise, ignore what annoys you.

I am female and I haven't elected you to defend my honour.


hope ya never have to make that choice

dont have to use logic just common sence

irmins post are only made to insult and put down the female members of this forum

if the other female members of this forum think im wrong let them post it here

you can defend what ever honour you want

I think the more interesting aspect of the abortion debate is whether or not the father should be able to override the mother's decision.

If a man wants the child to be born I don't think the woman should be able to end the pregnancy... BUT... she should be compensated for carrying and bearing the child.

You have all ignored the fact that no birth control system is 100% effective.

koan;685606 wrote: I think the more interesting aspect of the abortion debate is whether or not the father should be able to override the mother's decision.

If a man wants the child to be born I don't think the woman should be able to end the pregnancy... BUT... she should be compensated for carrying and bearing the child.


yes i agree how much is it worth 5 10 15bucks500,000 and while we are at it let take away there vote

and females should not be allowed to have careers or sex hell let chain them to the sink

hang on have changed my mind i dont agree

Chookie;685607 wrote: You have all ignored the fact that no birth control system is 100% effective.




good point

el guapo;685608 wrote: yes i agree how much is it worth 5 10 15bucks500,000 and while we are at it let take away there vote

and females should not be allowed to have careers or sex hell let chain them to the sink

hang on have changed my mind i dont agree


I happen to know a wonderful man who had two of his children aborted against his will. It was cruel and I don't agree with it.

koan;685632 wrote: I happen to know a wonderful man who had two of his children aborted against his will. It was cruel and I don't agree with it.


well am sorry for him but sh%t happens

could be the kindest warm hearted man in the world but ya cant force a woman to have his child

what about the women who get pregnant cos a comdom split or the pill failed

should she have to give up nine months of her life have changes to her life her body her whole exsitence

now thats cruel

what price a womb

koan;685632 wrote: I happen to know a wonderful man who had two of his children aborted against his will. It was cruel and I don't agree with it.




chantelle's mom thought she was pregnant 1 year after chantelle was was born ,i wanted to keep the baby she said no way ... there was nothing i could of done i was heartbroken .. in the end it was a false alarm ... or so she said



maybe a guy has some sort of responsability not to get a woman pregnant that would not want to keep a baby .. i know i never took another chance of her getting pregnant after that

el guapo;685608 wrote: yes i agree how much is it worth 5 10 15bucks500,000 and while we are at it let take away there vote

and females should not be allowed to have careers or sex hell let chain them to the sink

hang on have changed my mind i dont agree


According to my ex's attorney $27,000. :sneaky:

if the father pays for the woman's lost wages (minimum of a 40hr/week minimum wage job) and "pain and suffering" amount decided on by a court then I think he earns the right to save the child's life. Being that he gets full custody when the child is born.

If the woman changes her mind and wants to keep the child she must repay half the amount received.

If the woman was raped then the father is a criminal and doesn't get the right to demand anything.

JacksDad;685639 wrote: According to my ex's attorney $27,000. :sneaky:


answer get a better attorney

sorry dude

It's interesting to consider also that many women get pregnant (sometimes by lying about being on birth control) and then force men to pay child support for 18 years.

I don't think that's fair either. Not if the father didn't want the baby. Let's not idealise the world. I've personally known women that have tricked a man to get pregnant. One time she even told him she was sterile. Hmmmm. Actually, I know two women who said that.

koan;685648 wrote: if the father pays for the woman's lost wages (minimum of a 40hr/week minimum wage job) and "pain and suffering" amount decided on by a court then I think he earns the right to save the child's life. Being that he gets full custody when the child is born.

If the woman changes her mind and wants to keep the child she must repay half the amount received.

If the woman was raped then the father is a criminal and doesn't get the right to demand anything.


so let me check ive got this woman gets pregnent says she does not want the baby man wants baby so he has to pay

woman changes mind pays back half

sounds like having cake and eatin it too

wont work cant work open to abuse

el guapo;685649 wrote: answer get a better attorney

sorry dude


:wah:

How does one go about doing that?

Let's see. I have a pile of sh1t on my left. And I have a pile of sh1t on my right!

Which one is the better pile of sh1t?

:D

koan;685652 wrote: It's interesting to consider also that many women get pregnant (sometimes by lying about being on birth control) and then force men to pay child support for 18 years.

I don't think that's fair either. Not if the father didn't want the baby. Let's not idealise the world. I've personally known women that have tricked a man to get pregnant. One time she even told him she was sterile. Hmmmm. Actually, I know two women who said that.


man still had choice to use condom

JacksDad;685654 wrote: :wah:

How does one go about doing that?

Let's see. I have a pile of sh1t on my left. And I have a pile of sh1t on my right!

Which one is the better pile of sh1t?

:D


the one in the cross hairs

And to think I was going to read a book tonight.

This thread has me glued to it like white trash watching OJ on the LA freeway.

Please. Continue. I'm going to get popcorn.

JacksDad;685659 wrote: And to think I was going to read a book tonight.

This thread has me glued to it like white trash watching OJ on the LA freeway.

Please. Continue. I'm going to get popcorn.


well jerry his wife is his sister too



woohooo 1000 th post and no ban

Let's see if there is a position el guapo hasn't adopted yet. He seems to be against everything and advocating just as much.

koan;685665 wrote: Let's see if there is a position el guapo hasn't adopted yet. He seems to be against everything and advocating just as much.


not at all it is the womans body she has the right to choose

koan ya just dont live in the real world

not one other woman has agreed with you or irman

is it just me ya have a prob with or any one who does not agree with you

el guapo;685669 wrote: not at all it is the womans body she has the right to choose

koan ya just dont live in the real world


really?

I've had an abortion. Have you?

koan;685670 wrote: really?

I've had an abortion. Have you?


have edited my post above

but one thing to say your choice

Well so far El Guapo gets my vote. I know I'm sick of Irmin's obnoxious baiting posts and yes, his post is very insulting to women. Thought we were keeping this in one thread anyway.

well I have had an abortion when i was 16 and that was my decision,

so really that my opinion for you. :rolleyes:

littlemissgiggle;685677 wrote: well I have had an abortion when i was 16 and that was my decision,

so really that my opinion for you. :rolleyes:




aww bless i bet that still hurts:-6



i have been the unwanted child



i have had a partner not want to give birth to my baby



and i have had a woman come off the pill and get pregnant without telling me



i can see it from all sides and i dont think there is a correct answer

jimbo;685681 wrote: aww bless i bet that still hurts:-6



i have been the unwanted child



i have had a partner not want to give birth to my baby



and i have had a woman come off the pill and get pregnant without telling me



i can see it from all sides and i dont think there is a correct answer


jim there is no easy answer but 90 percent ot the world say it is the womens choice

jimbo;685681 wrote:



i can see it from all sides and i dont think there is a correct answer


agreed.

there is no one victim.



One of the things that really "grinds my gears" is when women are presented as hapless and weak. Sure it happens that way but don't pretend that women don't use sex and pregnancy as a weapon. Sure I had a choice to abort and I chose that path but I have never encountered a problem that only had one solution.

me and my partner both made the decision as i was too young,

we are still together now after 7 years and i have always said if it happened again then i would keep it.

But at the time it was the right decision for us both as we just couldn't have given it the best life at the time.

:-6

i agree a woman has the right to choose...esp in an out of wedlock pregnancy...inevitably the woman will raise the child and be financially responsible...its her body and her choice..as the law stands right now..and i agree with it...



the tricky part of this is ..if the man is aware of the pregnancy and doesnt want it..he should have the right to abandon all responsibility to it..his choice..financially and otherwise...

el guapo;685585 wrote: you ignorant twat pity ya mum didnt make the same choice


It's just really LOVELY to come here and read garbage like this. :rolleyes:



Disagree with the OP all you want, but pick a better way and language

than THAT. You don't need to violate the TOS to get your point

across.

valerie;685695 wrote: It's just really LOVELY to come here and read garbage like this. :rolleyes:



Disagree with the OP all you want, but pick a better way and language

than THAT. You don't need to violate the TOS to get your point

across.


in every one of irmins posts he attacks belittles insults some one

if its ok for one it should be for all

but yes should have picked my words better

should not have dropped to his level

el guapo;685700 wrote: in every one of irmins posts he attacks belittles insults some one

if its ok for one it should be for all



but yes should have picked my words better

should not have dropped to his level


Well, how nice. Thank you for that, I appreciate it. (And maybe others

do, too!)



:-6

JacksDad;685639 wrote: According to my ex's attorney $27,000. :sneaky:


i am sorry ...but that cracked me up....:wah:

guppy;685702 wrote: i am sorry ...but that cracked me up....:wah:


not funny it broke him up .............................sorry jd:wah::wah:

No apology necessary. Sarcasm is meant to be laughed at.

It's actually more than 27k.

This has always been an extremely difficult subject for me, mostly because the two basic competing principles are both valid and important. The two principles are:



1. Value and respect life.

2. Value and respect freedom & privacy.



It is wrong to kill that little unborn fetus and we all know it is - I don't believe, buy, or respect those that try to pass it off like it is not something special to be respected and that life is not being devalued on some level. Sending the signal to young people that it is AOK to devalue life and dispose of it when you want to that degree causes damage on several levels. It is immoral at its core generally speaking, save extreme cases like when the mother is going to die or something. We ALL know this deep down, instinctively. PERIOD.



It is wrong for public servants, or Government, to impose on your private business and in matters that we instinctively know should be between our family unit and doctor. I say that because the terminating of a fetus is not a clear cut case of murder, especially since one can reasonably argue that at the early early stages it is not a human, or at least, a sustainable one that should be fully respected as human life. In grey areas, I can buy defaulting to limiting Government's reach into our personal lives and respecting the long-term principles of freedom-protection. History has shown that Government loves to get big, corrupt, bloated, wasteful, and eventually the masses that were once free are back to slavery after being apathetic about protecting freedom for too long. Limit Government whenever it is reasonable to do so - that is what history has taught us if you care to protect freedom for the very long-term. PERIOD.

But ...



Just like I don't buy that it is your business if you abuse a child, I don't believe it is automatically and always just your decision or business to terminate a life that is inside you just because you can excuse away that it is not really a full life. Society has a responsibility to value some things dearly, and life is one of them.

Further complicating the mess is how I would have to respect how most abortions are done due it being inconvenient at the time to have a baby. So few are because of rape, the threat of death to the mother, and other such things.

I don't know. I think I have to go with it is just wrong. I think the only real solution is for people to have a guaranteed way to be able to have sex, even young, and not get pregnant to begin with. Apparently, the current methods of birth control is no match for the power of sex. We need some sort switch that can stay off until you really want to get pregnant. I have three kids and now I am all worked up from this post ... I'm gonna go put this at my site.



- Frank

24Hours;685716 wrote: This has always been an extremely difficult subject for me, mostly because the two basic competing principles are both valid and important. The two principles are:



1. Value and respect life.

2. Value and respect freedom & privacy.



It is wrong to kill that little unborn fetus and we all know it is - I don't believe, buy, or respect those that try to pass it off like it is not something special to be respected and that life is not being devalued on some level. Sending the signal to young people that it is AOK to devalue life and dispose of it when you want to that degree causes damage on several levels. It is immoral at its core generally speaking, save extreme cases like when the mother is going to die or something. We ALL know this deep down, instinctively. PERIOD.



It is wrong for public servants, or Government, to impose on your private business and in matters that we instinctively know should be between our family unit and doctor. I say that because the terminating of a fetus is not a clear cut case of murder, especially since one can reasonably argue that at the early early stages it is not a human, or at least, a sustainable one that should be fully respected as human life. In grey areas, I can buy defaulting to limiting Government's reach into our personal lives and respecting the long-term principles of freedom-protection. History has shown that Government loves to get big, corrupt, bloated, wasteful, and eventually the masses that were once free are back to slavery after being apathetic about protecting freedom for too long. Limit Government whenever it is reasonable to do so - that is what history has taught us if you care to protect freedom for the very long-term. PERIOD.

But ...



Just like I don't buy that it is your business if you abuse a child, I don't believe it is automatically and always just your decision or business to terminate a life that is inside you just because you can excuse away that it is not really a full life. Society has a responsibility to value some things dearly, and life is one of them.

Further complicating the mess is how I would have to respect how most abortions are done due it being inconvenient at the time to have a baby. So few are because of rape, the threat of death to the mother, and other such things.

I don't know. I think I have to go with it is just wrong. I think the only real solution is for people to have a guaranteed way to be able to have sex, even young, and not get pregnant to begin with. Apparently, the current methods of birth control is no match for the power of sex. We need some sort switch that can stay off until you really want to get pregnant. I have three kids and now I am all worked up from this post ... I'm gonna go put this at my site.



- Frank


:yh_clap:yh_clap

I saw this when it was first posted and almost made a comment about getting popcorn, cause knew it would be a doozy and of course notice that the op doesn't come back in.

This is a VERY sensitive subject for me. I am not going to share too much, but will say that I agree with the OP....and thats all I will say about the subject....

I disagree completely with the OP and the insulting, offensive way it was presented.

We've been over this a mess of times so there's no sense in rehashing it anyway. Especially when presented with such a blatant disregard of women.

There is an entire subforum called "Abortion" which indicates that the forum expects this topic to be rehashed over and over again.

Whatever.

This topic, like so many others, will always be rehashed as the laws or news reports change, new people arrive, etc. If you live on a site too much you start to get annoyed at it but that is more a deal in your head than a problem with posting. If you enter a forum on a given subject you should assume it will be rehashed - especially a topic as complicated and emotional as this one. The problem with this topic is that there is no right answer (in my opinion). Banning abortion as well as embracing it as a standard is inherently problematic on many levels.