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Our USA comander and chief on Friday "outsourced America's Pride!!! By awarding the contract to build the new age "Presendential Helicopter" to an overseas consortium! The consortium cleverly partnering with Lockeed-Martin company in N.Y. ! What kind of a mixed signal does that send to our young American workforce? Demoralizing to say the least! "Shame on you" Mr. Bush!!!!! :-5

Cars :driving:

(The current Presendential Helicopters have been made with American pride in the good US of A for over "47" trouble free years. Just goes to show you, one can't ever be sure of anything, except death & taxes)

I guess he thinks the casinos are helping out connecticut so much, let some-one else get the contract? but an over-seas company, i don't get that? there needs to be a reason why, and what country is it? This contract loss for Connecticut is significant. :-5

Lockheed Martin and Westland helicopters. When did Lockheed Martin move overseas? Westland are British.

cars wrote: Our USA comander and chief on Friday "outsourced America's Pride!!! By awarding the contract to build the new age "Presendential Helicopter" to an overseas consortium! The consortium cleverly partnering with Lockeed-Martin company in N.Y. ! What kind of a mixed signal does that send to our young American workforce? Demoralizing to say the least! "Shame on you" Mr. Bush!!!!! :-5

Cars :driving:

(The current Presendential Helicopters have been made with American pride in the good US of A for over "47" trouble free years. Just goes to show you, one can't ever be sure of anything, except death & taxes)


Everybody complains when the government buys from another country but when was the last time you checked to see where what you are buying was made. I do it all the time and I complain to the management if I can't fine American made product. If you don't do the same you have no reason to complain. I have even complained to management about the lack of American made products and then left the store. If 100 people a day did that you can bet there would be a change but untill it happens in every store every day don't complain about the government doing exactly what the rest of us do

jahamaa wrote: Everybody complains when the government buys from another country but when was the last time you checked to see where what you are buying was made. I do it all the time and I complain to the management if I can't fine American made product. If you don't do the same you have no reason to complain. I have even complained to management about the lack of American made products and then left the store. If 100 people a day did that you can bet there would be a change but untill it happens in every store every day don't complain about the government doing exactly what the rest of us do
I disagree. I too, check for products that are American made, and buy them whenever possible. However, I believe it is our Presidents OBLIGATION to have his helicoptor made here, supporting the jobs of his citizens. I'm very disappointed in Mr. Bush.

BabyRider wrote: I disagree. I too, check for products that are American made, and buy them whenever possible. However, I believe it is our Presidents OBLIGATION to have his helicoptor made here, supporting the jobs of his citizens. I'm very disappointed in Mr. Bush.
Sign of the times my friend, its disgaceful that it can be made cheaper overseas & shipped back into the country, the same thing happens here in Britain :-5

Paula wrote: I guess he thinks the casinos are helping out connecticut so much, let some-one else get the contract? but an over-seas company, i don't get that? there needs to be a reason why, and what country is it? This contract loss for Connecticut is significant. :-5


Yes there is reason, a "political" one. Mr. Bush owed favors to UK PM Tony Blair, & Italy PM Silvio Berlusconi for them supporting Mr. Bush's iraq war efforts. The fact that the American made Helicopter which was safer, faster, & cheaper to operate went out the window!

Cars :driving:

gmc wrote: Lockheed Martin and Westland helicopters. When did Lockheed Martin move overseas? Westland are British.


Overseas companies Agusta Westland & Finmeccanica Spa formed a parternship with USA Lockheed Martin in N.Y., it was a calculated clever "political" move for them to be able to say made in America. The fact remains that the main dynamic components as well as other components will be made in the overseas companies. The American President's security should be protected by American workers, in America!!!

When I see Tony Blair riding in a Cadillac or a Ford in the UK, then I will have no problem with GWB riding in foreign made product!

Cars :driving:

cars wrote: Overseas companies Agusta Westland & Finmeccanica Spa formed a parternship with USA Lockheed Martin in N.Y., it was a calculated clever "political" move for them to be able to say made in America. The fact remains that the main dynamic components as well as other components will be made in the overseas companies. The American President's security should be protected by American workers, in America!!!

When I see Tony Blair riding in a Cadillac or a Ford in the UK, then I will have no problem with GWB riding in foreign made product!

Cars :driving:
Sorry cars but I still disagree. Polititions react, that is all they do. we have not had a leader in the USA in almost 100 years. They will only act if they are forced to act.

The American people have shown with their buying habits that they don't care about outsourcing. The people may voice strong opinions but their actions say otherwise. if the people don't act the pols. won't . As little respect as I have for our governermental leaders you can't lay this one at their door It would be very easy for American people to end the shipping of our jobs overseas but very few people on the street give the problem more than lip service. If we people can't do the simple act of insisting that american goods be represented on store shelfs why should the governemnt care. The government is not my keeper it should only do what we can't and correcting this problem would be easy is we would just do it. Don't patronize stores that don't sell American goods along side foreign.

cars wrote: Our USA comander and chief on Friday "outsourced America's Pride!!! By awarding the contract to build the new age "Presendential Helicopter" to an overseas consortium! The consortium cleverly partnering with Lockeed-Martin company in N.Y. ! What kind of a mixed signal does that send to our young American workforce? Demoralizing to say the least! "Shame on you" Mr. Bush!!!!!


Doesn't seem like much to get worked up about, in the Great Scheme of things....

jahamaa

It would be very easy for American people to end the shipping of our jobs overseas but very few people on the street give the problem more than lip service. If we people can't do the simple act of insisting that american goods be represented on store shelfs why should the governemnt care. The government is not my keeper it should only do what we can't and correcting this problem would be easy is we would just do it. Don't patronize stores that don't sell American goods along side foreign.


I suggest you open up your computers and look at where the chips are made, not to mention all the training shoes and clothing you buy. If you want to live in a global economy and have other people buy your stuff you need to be able to compete. Still I am sure you can find more expensive home grown stuff if you look

I thought the best selling car in america was the Honda Accord? admittedly manufactured in america.

When I see Tony Blair riding in a Cadillac or a Ford in the UK, then I will have no problem with GWB riding in foreign made product!


Bit pointless buying a Cadillac it's too big for the parking spaces and you put the steering wheel on the wrong side copying the French I expect-they started that. Most Fords sold in the UK are made in either Belgium or Germany the only american cars you see occasionally are Chrysler Voyagers or the PT the Neon was not good enough to beat the competition, and jeeps. The first Chevrolet I will see in real life will be rebadged Korean made Daewoos. They can't continue to use the name, not sure chevrolet carries the same quality cachet. But If the product is good enough people buy regardless.

I can't actually think of very much we import from america except microsoft installed on asian made computers like dell. pretty expensive now for what it is. American rice-malnly cos that's what the supermmarkets stock so there is little choice (easy cook rice? what is that about you stick it in a pot and boil it, how much easier do you need) and some other foodstuffs, things like meat and grain get boycotted because of the hormone and GM content (big issue here don,t believe the stories about the nasty eec blocking it, simple fact is if they know it is GM people don't buy it, we like to know what is in our food and expect it to be labelled). All the Chilli and other Mexican stuff is made under licence in England which amuses me no end, even Miller Beer is made in Edinburgh. We get american style hotdogs and the like but they are tasteless pap compared to the homegrown stuff, no wonder you put ketchup on them give me cumberland sausage any day.

Bill Sikes wrote: Doesn't seem like much to get worked up about, in the Great Scheme of things....
No offense bill but that comment tells of a person who's never lost his house because a company shut down a thriving business just to move where they could pay low wages and thereby see greater profits.

I have no problem with global economics but when you make cars in Mexico for example and pay wages that will not allow your workers to buy what your making

then ship the cars back to the people you just laid off for them to purchase... isn't there an inherent problem built into that senerio?

The problem, it seems to me, is that people don't seem to understand that a market isn't just a bunch of people, it's a bunch of people with money to spend.

Bread could be .05 cents a loaf if you don't have the nickle there is no market for the bread.

Blaming the President for one example of not using American workers won't change the problem even he changes his mind and buys nothing but American. it's not the Gov. that is causing a problem it's what the people have been taught to accept as logical business practice.

Truth is I'll buy English, Japanese or goods from any other country that has a free market where employees make a decent wage and the right to petition for higher wages free of Gov. control and can buy goods made in my country. It's the mistreatment of workers in nations like Mexico and other South American and Asian Naions that is the problem.

Example: A bigwig from a local Textile mill just built a home in my town, The builders told how he was bragging that the companie's South American facotry was on a ship and when ever the local pay got anywhere near $1.00 per hour they just moved the ship. That is not business that is abuse both of the workers there and here.

jahamaa wrote: No offense bill but that comment tells of a person who's never lost his house because a company shut down a thriving business just to move where they could pay low wages and thereby see greater profits.


Well, that's true, to cut a long story short...



jahamaa wrote: I have no problem with global economics but when you make cars in Mexico for example and pay wages that will not allow your workers to buy what your making then ship the cars back to the people you just laid off for them to purchase... isn't there an inherent problem built into that senerio?


Yes, how can the people laid off still afford the goods?



jahamaa wrote: Truth is I'll buy English, Japanese or goods from any other country that has a free market where employees make a decent wage and the right to petition for higher wages free of Gov. control and can buy goods made in my country


Well, the consortium who will be building this machine are from Britain (I *wish* people would get England/(Norn)Ireland/Scotland/Wales/Britain) right!) and

Italy, which hopefully conform to your acceptable countries.



jahamaa wrote: It's the mistreatment of workers in nations like Mexico and other South American and Asian Naions that is the problem.


Yes, I agree, BUT....



jahamaa wrote: Example: A bigwig from a local Textile mill just built a home in my town, The builders told how he was bragging that the companie's South American facotry was on a ship and when ever the local pay got anywhere near $1.00 per hour they just moved the ship. That is not business that is abuse both of the workers there and here.


He will eventually lose his business.

Here's a thought - with "sweatshop" labour, even child labour - how well off would the people who do this work be without it?

N.B. I am not saying that I think that "sweatshop" labour or child labour is a good thing.

He will eventually lose his business.

Here's a thought - with "sweatshop" labour, even child labour - how well off would the people who do this work be without it?

N.B. I am not saying that I think that "sweatshop" labour or child labour is a good thing.


I know what your saying Bill that with a job, any job the folks are better off than with no job. And there is a point there. my problem is when they are held there by their gov. or others and not allowed to better themselsves.

Ex: A story in a national news mag. forgive me I don't remember which one it was years ago, but I don't read any magazines other than Time, Newsweek etc. mags like that no offbeat ones, told of union officials going to Mex. to organize a GE plant. the US organizers were led back to the border their MEXican counterparts have not been heard from since.

Also your argument won't play well here in the states. See we heard the same argument used to support slavery, at least the slaves had regular meals they said.

The author of America's economy Alexander Hamilton urged the formation of textile mills in america because they would employ women who would work for less, take the money home to their husbands farm and if they got sick or couldn't work they didn't have to pay them. In other words it was cheaper than slaves.

I won't write a book here but I have often said that it could be argued that current trade treaties are just the 21st centuries version of slavery. We need to support economic polices that make life worth living, not just an existence of subsistance.

PS: the American Union movement had a lot to do with the women in the work place. Here and I beleive in your part of the world. Our gains in quality of life came at the end of clubs, born in violence. we need to remember that when we stand by and let our quality of life be eroded by letting business do to others what they used to do to us, we're giving up something that our grandfathers and grandmothers literally had to fight for.

Despite the order Westland have just announced 630 redundancies.

posted by jahamaa

No offense bill but that comment tells of a person who's never lost his house because a company shut down a thriving business just to move where they could pay low wages and thereby see greater profits.

I have no problem with global economics but when you make cars in Mexico for example and pay wages that will not allow your workers to buy what your making

then ship the cars back to the people you just laid off for them to purchase... isn't there an inherent problem built into that senerio?

The problem, it seems to me, is that people don't seem to understand that a market isn't just a bunch of people, it's a bunch of people with money to spend.

Bread could be .05 cents a loaf if you don't have the nickle there is no market for the bread.

Blaming the President for one example of not using American workers won't change the problem even he changes his mind and buys nothing but American. it's not the Gov. that is causing a problem it's what the people have been taught to accept as logical business practice.

Truth is I'll buy English, Japanese or goods from any other country that has a free market where employees make a decent wage and the right to petition for higher wages free of Gov. control and can buy goods made in my country. It's the mistreatment of workers in nations like Mexico and other South American and Asian Naions that is the problem.


So you can come to edingburgh in July and join on all the protests at the G8 summit. You do realise that you will now be categorised as an anti capitalist unamerican commie pinky liberal.

Actually joking aside I don't know where Bill comes from but I live in an area where unemployment reached 13%, I was unemployed for two years-although I was able to get casual seasonal jobs. Why do you think there are no Tories in Scotland, issues like that stir up real angry debate here.

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/interna ... =110412005

On the other hand for all it's faults controll;ed capitalism is better than controlled communism,it's when the work force has economic power and can hurt these companies that they stand most chance of getting better conditions if they have the power to hurt their profits. The boycott of Nike made them rethink their strategy same with GAP (don't know if you get them in the US, it's aclothing chain)

It's a complex issue. Incidentally cars seem a heck of a lot cheaper in the US than they are here. I was having a look at korean built chevrolets, no street cred at all but naff is the new black, drive the kind of car that sayus I don't care what people think. Must be age I look at cars and think what a waste of money.

Haven't a clue who these people are but thought it was interesting.

http://www.word-power.co.uk/events/EventStyle-73

I know people who live near gleneagles, most of them plan to be away for the event. Daft place to have a meeting like this, there is one main access road, if they want to they can bring the whole of central scotland to a halt by simply blocking the main motorways with a demonstration.

[QUOTE=gmc]Despite the order Westland have just announced 630 redundancies.



On the other hand for all it's faults controll;ed capitalism is better than controlled communism,it's when the work force has economic power and can hurt these companies that they stand most chance of getting better conditions if they have the power to hurt their profits. The boycott of Nike made them rethink their strategy same with GAP (don't know if you get them in the US, it's aclothing chain)

Your right gmc capitalism is the best, giving opportunity to all. But sometimes the very large corporations need to ask if constant growth and profit, while lifesblood,

are all they should be about.

AND do I know the GAP hell man they were just a 2nd rate discount house until my wife and daughters discovered them Oh well at least I know where my retirement money is at.

jahamaa wrote: Sorry cars but I still disagree. Polititions react, that is all they do. we have not had a leader in the USA in almost 100 years. They will only act if they are forced to act.

The American people have shown with their buying habits that they don't care about outsourcing. The people may voice strong opinions but their actions say otherwise. if the people don't act the pols. won't . As little respect as I have for our governermental leaders you can't lay this one at their door It would be very easy for American people to end the shipping of our jobs overseas but very few people on the street give the problem more than lip service. If we people can't do the simple act of insisting that american goods be represented on store shelfs why should the governemnt care. The government is not my keeper it should only do what we can't and correcting this problem would be easy is we would just do it. Don't patronize stores that don't sell American goods along side foreign.


This was definetely a "political" move on GWB's part. The American Helicopter "costs less", is faster, is Safer (winner of the Colier award) , it carries a bigger payload, and it cost less to operate, then the competition! What other conclusion other than Political favors owed is rational? I buy American when ever I have a choice, I look for the" union lable" in clothes, my cars are Buick, Pontiac & Ford. RCA electronics, Sears appliances, etc.

Cars :driving:

Perhaps he don't trust his own:wah:

capt_buzzard wrote: Perhaps he don't trust his own:wah:


Every USA president since Dwight D. Eisenhower has trusted the same American Helicopter company for the the last "47" years!!! Never a falut or incident during all those years! It was not mistrust it was GWB owed a favor!! :-5

Cars :driving:

cars wrote: Every USA president since Dwight D. Eisenhower has trusted the same American Helicopter company for the the last "47" years!!! Never a falut or incident during all those years! It was not mistrust it was GWB owed a favor!!


That's right, it even said in the Telegraph or somewhere that Mr. Bush had "been lobbied by the Brititish and Italian PMs", I'd look it up if I could be arsed. Perhaps it was at helicopters.com. Anyway, the thing is that the one that was not specified is still the best, so that's OK.