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If its ok to call someone from Australia an 'aussie' why is thought racist to call someone from Pakistan a 'paki' ?

Hi BC! Haven't seen you around for a while, how is work?

Good question, I guess it depends on how it is applied (maybe).

I'm great Mik, just popped in on my lunch hour, heading back now, nice to see you too :-4

buttercup;668433 wrote: I'm great Mik, just popped in on my lunch hour, heading back now, nice to see you too :-4


I am on a conference call, very boring. Just pop in myself to keep awake

buttercup;668428 wrote: If its ok to call someone from Australia an 'aussie' why is thought racist to call someone from Pakistan a 'paki' ?
I think it's because in 'URDU" Paki means: Homosexual Camel humper.:wah:

YZGI;668466 wrote: I think it's because in 'URDU" Paki means: Homosexual Camel humper.:wah:




bahahahahhahahahahahahahaha:wah:

I called them Pakistanis, seemed just fine for my friends from Pakistan, as long as I didn't call them Saudis. Most times I just called them by their damned names though.

I guess it's about context however we certainly get frowned upon now if we use some slang names for different races no matter what the context...

ie, the past names for

afro americans

Jewish People

Native Americans

etc....

It's almost relevant to confrontation... seems like the more controversy around the race or country the more nasty slang names out there.

Worst tantrum I ever saw at work was when the boss called one of the new operators a Paki bastard - he didn't mind being called a bastard but he was an Indian and proud of it.

A precious conversation between the pair?

OK, welcome to the department, what's your name?

*+_*+*+*+

That's too difficult - you're Tony from now on

And he called himself Toni for the rest of his time with the company.



Couldn't happen nowadays!

Bryn Mawr;668607 wrote: Worst tantrum I ever saw at work was when the boss called one of the new operators a Paki bastard - he didn't mind being called a bastard but he was an Indian and proud of it.

A precious conversation between the pair?

OK, welcome to the department, what's your name?

*+_*+*+*+

That's too difficult - you're Tony from now on

And he called himself Toni for the rest of his time with the company.



Couldn't happen nowadays!


that is almost criminal isn't it. and disturbing.

minks;668608 wrote: that is almost criminal isn't it. and disturbing.


We've come a long way in the past thirty years

Bryn Mawr;668614 wrote: We've come a long way in the past thirty years


thankfully so

IMO everyone is equal so why treat people differently by their race or skin colour

Musiclover89;668629 wrote: IMO everyone is equal so why treat people differently by their race or skin colour


Everyone is equal in what sense, ML? I don't think I ever understood that phrase.

It would be true to say that we're all headed for the grave, that in a hundred years time all of us will be brought to the same lifeless state, that another hundred years after that nobody alive will remember a word we've said or a gesture we used or a thought we'd tried to pass on. In that sense we're all equal. Death is the great leveller. On the other hand, if you were to say to me now "you're the equal of Thomas Stearns Eliot" I would quite simply deny it with good reason and complete certainty. I can see the point of "We're all different", but "Everyone is equal" has no resonance with any thought I ever had. I do try hard, which is why I'm asking. In what way is it true?

Interesting replies but none really tackle answering the question

buttercup;668692 wrote: Interesting replies but none really tackle answering the question :(Oh... soz, I thought it had been dealt with. Because Paki is intended to cause offence and Aussie isn't. Partly underlying that is that anyone at all from the indian subcontinent gets called Paki, which annoys both the Pakistanis and the Indians intensely - it's like calling a proud upstanding Scots lass English. Some people do that deliberately too, of course. I expect it's taken worse still when it's accidental.

It's because Aussies are proud to be called Aussies.

It's not a bad thing to be called an Aussie.

Aussies get called far worse things than that & still handle the pressure:wah:

We are all Australian therefore we are all Aussies

and further those races or country names like aussies and ok canucks are generally accepted by the actual aussies and canucks and therefore they are ok to use.

Jews

n***ers

Paki's

Indians

are not names those people like to be called so that is why they are unacceptable again also because they are a nasty slanted slang name for those races.

Jews? Indians? They're perfectly uncontentious words!!

spot;668776 wrote: Jews? Indians? They're perfectly uncontentious words!!


Indians is acceptable here for people from India, but not our native americans... Jews hmmm it's still not so user friendly here either.

I have been told that i can't say Pakistani, I must say Asian or Middle Eastern.

But i have to agree with KB, it's always safer just using their names and far more civil.

minks;668784 wrote: Indians is acceptable here for people from India, but not our native americans... Jews hmmm it's still not so user friendly here either.


How would you refer, collectively, to members of the Jewish faith?

Bryn Mawr;668795 wrote: How would you refer, collectively, to members of the Jewish faith?


You beat me to it.

abbey;668787 wrote: I have been told that i can't say Pakistani, I must say Asian or Middle Eastern.

But i have to agree with KB, it's always safer just using their names and far more civil.


If they are Asian or Middle Eastern then call them Asian or Middle Eastern. If they're Pakistani then call them Pakistani. The danger is in guessing and getting it wrong, especially if they're born in England in which case the correct word is English.

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source Jew (jōō) Pronunciation Key

n.

An adherent of Judaism as a religion or culture.

A member of the widely dispersed people originally descended from the ancient Hebrews and sharing an ethnic heritage based on Judaism.

A native or inhabitant of the ancient kingdom of Judah.


[Middle English Jeu, from Old French giu, from Latin Iūdaeus, from Greek Ioudaios, from Aramaic yəhudāy, from Hebrew yəhûdî, inhabitant of Judah, from yəhûdâ, Judah; see Judah2.]

Usage Note: It is widely recognized that the attributive use of the noun Jew, in phrases such as Jew lawyer or Jew ethics, is both vulgar and highly offensive. In such contexts Jewish is the only acceptable possibility. Some people, however, have become so wary of this construction that they have extended the stigma to any use of Jew as a noun, a practice that carries risks of its own. In a sentence such as There are now several Jews on the council, which is unobjectionable, the substitution of a circumlocution like Jewish people or persons of Jewish background may in itself cause offense for seeming to imply that Jew has a negative connotation when used as a noun.

"You're Tony from now on."

Bryn that is terrible but it's the best laugh I've had in a week. Laughing at the absurdity of it, not that it happened. How lazy must one be to not use a person's given name.

It's hard to keep up sometimes with what people think is and isn't offensive. The tribes out in my area don't like to be called Native Americans. They use "Indians" and it's on their letterhead, office doors, company trucks even. When I hear Indian, they are who I think of rather than one from India.

When I was in school it was "Amerindian, Amerasian, Eskimo, Black, Caucasian, Forgot the rest. Oh! Hispanic. We didn't say Latino/Latina then. Then Black turned into a bad word, African American offends some because a lot aren't from Africa, and I'm still a white girl. Nobody's ever called me Caucasian.

What about whitey ?

I think whitey is a nice catch all phrase.

Makes me giggle too.

Nomad;668815 wrote: What about whitey ?

I think whitey is a nice catch all phrase.

Makes me giggle too.


Nomad, you jive turkey.

Bryn Mawr;668614 wrote: We've come a long way in the past thirty years


Remember that the next time you have to call customer support; and the man on the other end tells you his name is George, or Robert. Maybe John. It still happens, every day.

RedGlitter;668814 wrote: "You're Tony from now on."

Bryn that is terrible but it's the best laugh I've had in a week. Laughing at the absurdity of it, not that it happened. How lazy must one be to not use a person's given name.


It's not specifically racial, it's a particular style of dominant management that one would hope was fading from view. I had it done to me on a contract as well, by a total git from Glasgow who will burn in the fires of hell when his time comes.

I DONT MIND IN THE LEAST BEING CALLED AN AUSSIE,I THINK PEOPLE ARE A LITTLE PRESIOUS ABOUT NAMES ITS ONLY LETTERS STRUNG TOGETHER.SOME ENGLISH FOLK HERE ARE KICKING UP ABOUT BEING CALLED A POM,ITS A TERM OF ENDERMENT HERE ITS NOT MENT TO BE OFFENSIVE.I THINK POLITICAL CORRECNESS HAS GONE MAD ALL OVER THE WORLD.I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THING EASE UP A LITTLE,DONT GET ME WRONG IM NOT SAYING WE CAN CALL PEOPLE ANY NAMES WE WANT BUT WE NEED TO LIGHTEN UP.PEACE BROTHERS AND SISTERS.LOL:D:wah::wah:

Pom's fine. Whinging Pom tends to have a harsh edge to it. Does Bastard Limey Poofter still get heard much?

Ali.;669005 wrote: POLITICAL CORRECNESS HAS GONE MAD ALL OVER THE WORLD.


absofreakinlutely :yh_clap

buttercup;669022 wrote: absofreakinlutely :yh_clap


Political Correctness has gone mad? I know how to write inclusively, I know how to be civil, I know that I can choose to be uncivil or to write exclusively if that's my intention. What else does Political Correctness involve, beyond that? You're not suggesting that there's any legal sanction imposed for the use of non-PC language, I hope? You write as though there were compulsion. I just don't get the point.

Spot im not saying i go round calling people paki's, i know its politically incorrect. What i am saying is - If its ok to shorten the country's name to term the people why is one more offensive than the other?

Australian = Aussie & thats not offensive

Scotland = Scots & thats not offensive

Pakistan = paki & all hell breaks loose

buttercup;669029 wrote: Spot im not saying i go round calling people paki's, i know its politically incorrect. What i am saying is - If its ok to shorten the country's name to term the people why is one more offensive than the other?You do know that "Politically Incorrect" is a sarcastic label used by the detractors of inclusive language?

You're going round in circles - I gave a reply and you just walked past it as though it hadn't been posted:Because Paki is intended to cause offence and Aussie isn't. Partly underlying that is that anyone at all from the indian subcontinent gets called Paki, which annoys both the Pakistanis and the Indians intensely - it's like calling a proud upstanding Scots lass English. Some people do that deliberately too, of course. I expect it's taken worse still when it's accidental.It has nothing to do with contraction, it has everything to do with a desire to cause offence. Afghan doesn't offend, Argie does. Brit offends, Pole, Slovak or Czech doesn't. The offence in each case is recognized both by the speaker and the hearer, I'd have thought. I know if an Irish person calls me a Brit he's deliberately raising overtones of the Army's heavy-handed suppression of Catholic protest during the troubles. An Argentine resident in the UK is quite likely to know that Argie brings to mind triumphalist Sun headlines either side of a sinking cruiser, and resent it.

London is full of pakis so it's just easier, call me a honky, I don't mind.

crazygal;669037 wrote: London is full of pakis so it's just easier, call me a honky, I don't mind.


Here you are, crazygal - a real question: how do you distinguish a Pakistani from someone holding an Indian or Bangladeshi passport, out of interest, other than checking his documentation?

I'd have thought that Pakistani is a reasonable word to describe a holder of a Pakistan passport, or a national of Pakistan. It's pushing a limit to use the word to describe a British resident born in Pakistan who once had but no longer has Pakistani nationality. It's an abuse of language to use the word to label a British national born in Britain who has Pakistani ancestry. The deliberately abusive nature of "paki" applies to all these categories indiscriminately.

spot;669042 wrote: Here you are, crazygal - a real question: how do you distinguish a Pakistani from someone holding an Indian or Bangladeshi passport, out of interest, other than checking his documentation?

I'd have thought that Pakistani is a reasonable word to describe a holder of a Pakistan passport, or a national of Pakistan. It's pushing a limit to use the word to describe a British resident born in Pakistan who once had but no longer has Pakistani nationality. It's an abuse of language to use the word to label a British national born in Britain who has Pakistani ancestry. The deliberately abusive nature of "paki" applies to all these categories indiscriminately.


Yes I know and I've used it myself. I don't know where it came from but I remember it from school. People saying, 'go back to your own country to paki', they probably weren't even from there!

So how do you distinguish a Pakistani from someone holding an Indian or Bangladeshi passport, out of interest, other than checking his documentation?

We are all different tribes so a name is either a celebration of difference or an insult. The insult depends on the context. Most people can usually tell if a name is meant at to be insulting or is just a name-although there are many who deliberately look for insult when none is intended.

I used to work in London with mainly afro-Caribbean, and a few token cockney staff. being scots no one could understand my accent and was regarded as if from another planet. Naturally I got called Jock as a way of winding me up. One day I turned round and told if they stopped calling me jock I wouldn't call them Sambo. After ten seconds of shocked silence everybody fell about laughing. The racist epithet became a standing joke amongst us to the extent that outsiders found it shocking.

Same words different contexts different meanings.

I have to admit that I didn't know Brit was offensive. I don't think I've ever used it but I'll make sure now that I never do. Thank you.

RedGlitter;669050 wrote: I have to admit that I didn't know Brit was offensive. I don't think I've ever used it but I'll make sure now that I never do. Thank you.


It's only offensive if used by someone from Ireland. Ask Galbally or Pinkchick, they might think I'm wrong. I'd find it hard to imagine an Irish person using it without intending an insult, or anyone non-Irish intending one.

buttercup;669022 wrote: absofreakinlutely :yh_clap Nice tmesis Cups

spot grits his teeth and hands krambo the Post of the Week trophy with a fixed smile on his face for the cameras

crazygal;669044 wrote: Yes I know and I've used it myself. I don't know where it came from but I remember it from school. People saying, 'go back to your own country to paki', they probably weren't even from there!




no they were from wales





no offence taffy .... i mean spot or uncle F:p

spot;669027 wrote: Political Correctness has gone mad? I know how to write inclusively, I know how to be civil, I know that I can choose to be uncivil or to write exclusively if that's my intention. What else does Political Correctness involve, beyond that? You're not suggesting that there's any legal sanction imposed for the use of non-PC language, I hope? You write as though there were compulsion. I just don't get the point.


I dont understand some of the words or terms you use, hence why i have as you put it - walked past your reply.

spot;669036 wrote: You do know that "Politically Incorrect" is a sarcastic label used by the detractors of inclusive language?

No i dident, i also dont know what detractors of inclusive language means.

You're going round in circles - I gave a reply and you just walked past it as though it hadn't been posted:Because Paki is intended to cause offence and Aussie isn't. Partly underlying that is that anyone at all from the indian subcontinent gets called Paki, which annoys both the Pakistanis and the Indians intensely - it's like calling a proud upstanding Scots lass English. Some people do that deliberately too, of course. I expect it's taken worse still when it's accidental.It has nothing to do with contraction, it has everything to do with a desire to cause offence. Afghan doesn't offend, Argie does. Brit offends, Pole, Slovak or Czech doesn't. The offence in each case is recognized both by the speaker and the hearer, I'd have thought. I know if an Irish person calls me a Brit he's deliberately raising overtones of the Army's heavy-handed suppression of Catholic protest during the troubles. An Argentine resident in the UK is quite likely to know that Argie brings to mind triumphalist Sun headlines either side of a sinking cruiser, and resent it.


When did calling someone a paki become offensive, has it always been? As for calling me english, it happens all the time abroad, i dont get my knickers in a twist about it. If an irish person called me a brit i wouldent be offended about that either, this is the united kingdom so i am a brit, short for british. I dont or wouldent connect it to any troubles, as i said before & i still stand by it, its all gone too far. If your from pakistan (i did not say anything about india) an acceptable term shortened should be paki, just as an acceptable shortened term for an australian is an aussie. If you want to reply to this Spot you will have to take it to layman terms, im not as educated as yourself, but your aware of that i would have thought.

RedGlitter;669050 wrote: I have to admit that I didn't know Brit was offensive. I don't think I've ever used it but I'll make sure now that I never do. Thank you.


I would not be in the slightest offended by it Red, its short for British which i am. I prefer by & large to class myself Scottish & would likely point that out to you in a polite manner, i wouldent be upset by it, its just preferance but im well aware that this is still the united kingdom therefore i'll also be classed british or brit until such time as we have independance.

No but do they all carry a passport? :wah:

RedGlitter;669050 wrote: I have to admit that I didn't know Brit was offensive. I don't think I've ever used it but I'll make sure now that I never do. Thank you.


I didn't know it was either, I certainly don't find Brit offensive at all as I am British.