ForumGarden

A breakout thread from the health insurance thread. This is predominantly on personal taxation, not company taxation though that might get a side mention now and then.

We're in a number of countries. What sort of amount or percentage gets paid in tax by a citizen? Let's try for three instances, to make comparisons. A single person earning $20k (£10k) for a low income example, a two-income middle earning family on $60k (£30k) and a rich chick on $2m (£1m). Do they sound typical enough? There's a lot of them around. Anyone want to put the effort in?

That's gone down like a lead balloon then. Never mind, if I put up some details it might get some interest.

What follows is a shocking approximation and ignores 99% of UK tax law but I'm trying to get to a point where I can estimate the tax payment for those example families. Before I can do that, I need to show the current UK position as background. We pay an assortment of taxes.

On income we pay a banded tax:

0% of the first $10500 (£5225)

10% of the next $4500 (£2230)

22% of the next $65000 (£32379)

40% on all income above that, there's no ceiling. THERE'S NO CEILING. Got that bit?

We also, on top of that, pay a proportion of income into a national government insurance scheme which pays unemployment benefit, base-level old age pensions, health cover, dental cover and a low-income-earner supplement (which rises if there are children involved). It's capped at $140 (£70) a week.

0% of the first $8500 (£4264)

11% of the next $57000 (£28500)



For merely being alive we pay, per family,

$2400 (£1200) local council tax, which pays for the police and schools and a weekly household rubbish collection. It ranges from £850 to £2500 depending on the size of house and the area. I've used the national average.

$350 (£175) to own a car, which pays for the roads

$270 (£135) to own a TV which pays for channels with no advertising

$600 (£300) water and sewage tax (this varies on house size as well, I used the national average)

That gives an average family fixed charge total of $3620 (£1810) a year.



On spending, from that taxed income, we pay an assortment of sales taxes but it boils down to:

67% on gas for the car including the shopping tax

81% on tobacco (in 2003) including the shopping tax

$40 (£20) on alcohol per litre of pure alcohol on top of the shopping tax. Alcohol's more complicated than that really.

17.5% on all other shopping except food, restaurants and books which are all sales-tax-free.

That's it. The UK tax burden in a nutshell. I'll do those three examples next.

Is anyone planning to join in?

Okay, I did a sum. I'm not going to show my working, that's a bore. Unless anyone insists.

I assume that after income tax, national insurance and the "fixed taxes" I described, 40% of the net income goes into rent/mortgage payments which aren't taxable and that the rest I treat as disposable income subject to sales tax once I take off a sensible amount for food and books. I assume the first drives 6000 miles a year, the other two 20000 miles a year. They're quite feasible figures.

The single person earning $20k (£10k) for a low income example pays 38% of gross income in taxes. She has $400 disposable sales-taxed income after the noted expenses, more if she economises on food. She'd have more left if she shared her apartment, I expect she'd need to.

The two-income middle earning family on $60k (£30k) pays 43% of gross income in taxes. They have $6600 disposable sales-taxed income after the noted expenses.

The rich chick on $2m (£1m) pays 46% of gross income in taxes. She has $700000 disposable sales-taxed income after the noted expenses.

All these numbers go up if they smoke or drink. I'll fiddle a bit more and post an adjustment in a while but I need to think up a reasonable way to do that without spreading too many numbers into the thread.

Now, the huge question, how does that compare with other countries?

spot;662725 wrote:

Now, the huge question, how does that compare with other countries?


Anyone from Scandinavia here? High direct tax and ?low? indirect

It would be good to see an example of the opposite to counterbalance it.

Then the USA and Australia to round things out.

Come on someone - it's the weekend, there's a bit of free time. What's the American equivalent of the total tax burden for those three examples?

I have a slight problem with this thread - it's sat untouched by man and beast for a week. If someone thinks getting figures for the US is too difficult then do please say so, it's a start to filling them out.

Here's a chart spot:

http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/article/0, ... 56,00.html

I let the tax person do mine.............................

You have to take in the difference, no national health care system. We pay for that out of our wages.

Actually Spot by comparison we pay just about the same in taxes as you do there. Maybe a little differences here and there in the end we are taxed to death. Speaking of death we have to pay to do that here in the US as well. :-5

chonsigirl;670127 wrote: Here's a chart spot:

http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/article/0, ... 56,00.html

.


That's a great start. I can work with those. Jot down some one-word answers to these if you can, with a hint of what they might cost:

Are there local sales taxes?

National sales taxes?

A residency tax, like on your property?

State taxes to pay schools and policing?

Who pays for roadbuilding?

As you can see, I'm trying to get three figures together like I did for the UK: what you have to pay on earnings, what you have to pay on purchasing things, and what you have to pay just to stand still on your own bit of land from one year to the next.

Welll here is the chart for us poor over taxed people in California..:-5

[QUOTE]California has a statewide sales tax rate of 7.25%, and local supplementary taxes are allowed up to 8.75%. Sales and use taxes in the state of California are collected by the State Board of Equalization, the only publicly elected tax commission in the United States. The statewide 7.25% is allocated as:

6.25% - State

5.00% - State - General Fund

0.25% - State - Fiscal Recovery Fund

0.50% - State - Local Revenue Fund

0.50% - State - Local Public Safety Fund

1.00% - Uniform Local Tax

0.25% - Local County - Transportation funds

0.75% - Local City/County - Operational funds

Supplementary sales tax may be added (with voter approval) by cities, counties, service authorities, and various special districts (such as the Bay Area Rapid Transit district). The effect is that sales tax rates vary from 7.25% (in areas where no additional taxes are charged) to 8.75% (in the city of Avalon, on Santa Catalina Island, and in Alameda County, in the Bay Area).

The last changes to the published local tax rates took effect on April 1, 2007. Official updates are published on the Board of Equalization website and also in Publication 71. Vehicle purchases are taxed based on the city and county in which the purchaser registers the vehicle, and not on the county in which the vehicle is purchased. This negates the (perceived) advantage of purchasing a car in a "cheaper" county in order to save on sales tax (a 1% difference in sales tax rates on a $30,000 car would otherwise result in a $300 savings).

Excluded are food (except where sold hot or suitable for consumption on the premises), animals, plants, fertilizer, drugs, certain medical supplies, utilities, certain alternative energy devices and supplies, art for display by public agencies, and veterans pins. There are many specific exemptions for various veterans, non-profit, educational, religious, and youth organizations. Sale of items to certain out-of-state or national entities (mostly transportation companies) is exempt, as are some goods sold while in transit through California to a foreign destination.

There are also exemptions for a large number of specific products, from telephone lines and poles, to liquid petroleum gas for farm machinery, to coins, to public transit vehicles. There are partial exemptions for such varied items as racehorse breeding stock, teleproduction service equipment, and timber harvesting equipment. For an organized list of exemptions, with estimates for how much revenue the state loses for each, see Publication 61 of the Board of Equalization.

Motor vehicle gasoline and jet fuel are subject to special taxation regimes. In 2005, there was a political dispute in the San Francisco Bay Area about whether revenues for jet fuel should be credited to San Mateo County (where San Francisco International Airport is physically located), the City and County of San Francisco, which owns the airport, or Alameda County, where Oakland International Airport is located. (The distinction is largely point of delivery vs. point of negotiation for the sale.) This is controlled by Regulation 1802, which has other provisions about businesses which have multiple locations.

Critics of the current sales tax regime charge that it gives local governments an incentive to promote commercial development (through zoning and other regulations) over residential development.[/QUOTE]

spot;662690 wrote: A breakout thread from the health insurance thread. This is predominantly on personal taxation, not company taxation though that might get a side mention now and then.

We're in a number of countries. What sort of amount or percentage gets paid in tax by a citizen? Let's try for three instances, to make comparisons. A single person earning $20k (£10k) for a low income example, a two-income middle earning family on $60k (£30k) and a rich chick on $2m (£1m). Do they sound typical enough? There's a lot of them around. Anyone want to put the effort in?


What makes this comparison difficult Spot, is the multiplicty of taxes from state to state in the U.S. in addition to the U.S. Federal Income Tax. Different states have varying state income taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, gasoline taxes, liquor ciggy taxes, self employment tax.

Lon;670132 wrote: What makes this comparison difficult Spot, is the multiplicty of taxes from state to state in the U.S. in addition to the U.S. Federal Income Tax. Different states have varying state income taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, gasoline taxes, liquor ciggy taxes, self employment tax.


That's fine, if I get +-3% I think the comparison will be informative.

I'll settle for California and call the sales tax 8.5% on all non-exempt products.

So, what's a typical basis for state income tax?

property tax?

It doesn't make a lot of difference to the total but what proportion of the pump price of gasoline is tax in total?

It varies from state to state, spot.

chonsigirl;670138 wrote: It varies from state to state, spot.


We've simplified things down to just California.

Would there by a major difference in taxation between there and, say, New Jersey or Illinois? Or are we talking about 2% or 3% of gross income. Even that's quite a lot of money when you're down to seeing what's left after just earning your wage.

Yes, it makes a big difference. But you have to take into consideration wages, cost of living expenses, etc.

I moved to Maryland from California. Took a $10,000/yr cut in salary, and it is still cheaper to live here.

Here is one table, but I do not say that I understand it at all.

http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/ind_inc.html

chonsigirl;670142 wrote: I moved to Maryland from California. Took a $10,000/yr cut in salary, and it is still cheaper to live here.We have similar differentials in earnings and costs across the country, but the taxes remain constant. The only one which might vary is the local property tax. It's still far more expensive to live near London than in, say, Lincolnshire, but earnings are correspondingly higher too. It's not a tax difference which has that effect.

Texas has no income tax, but high property taxes, and 8% sales tax (rounded off). The property taxes pay for education. I don't know how the rest is divvied up.



San Antonio property tax is $0.53873 per $100 of value. I think $150,000 is a good average property value.

There is no national sales tax or property tax for residents - only income tax, but I don't know about businesses.

How California State income tax rates are structured The tax table below will show in detail the California state income tax rates by income tax bracket(s). There are 6 income tax brackets for California. If your income range is between $0 and $6,146, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 1%.

If your income range is between $6,147 and $14,570, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 2%.

If your income range is between $14,571 and $22,996, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 4%.

If your income range is between $22,997 and $31,924, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 6%.

If your income range is between $31,925 and $40,345, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 8%.

If your income range is $40,346 and over, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 9.3%.



There are deductions and exemptions that will lower the amount of taxes actually paid



Property taxes are 1 % of the accessed value of a home. Example----home valued at $300,000, tax would be $3,500 yearly. It would stay at that rate until the home is sold. If it then sells for $400,000 the new tax would be $4,000. This is really a good deal as it protects older folks that have been in their homes for a long time and are now on fixed incomes. Americans think that they pay very high taxes, but they really don't compared to the UK and most of Europe.

spot;662690 wrote: A breakout thread from the health insurance thread. This is predominantly on personal taxation, not company taxation though that might get a side mention now and then.

We're in a number of countries. What sort of amount or percentage gets paid in tax by a citizen? Let's try for three instances, to make comparisons. A single person earning $20k (£10k) for a low income example, a two-income middle earning family on $60k (£30k) and a rich chick on $2m (£1m). Do they sound typical enough? There's a lot of them around. Anyone want to put the effort in?


Excuse me................I am still paying back taxes and future taxes.

I really hate paying tax in another state whose tax rate is more than my own state tax rate.

on my income 30% goes to the feds

and we pay 6% gouge and scerw tax on every purchase unless it is some obscure food category that I forget. This is across the nation. Each province determines sales tax and we here in Alberta pay zero but i know BC pays 7%

We are grossly over taxed here in Canada, rumor has it we are 3rd highest taxed freakin nation.

Good good, minksie!

What do you pay for sewerage and water? Do you pay a local tax if you own property?

Alberta pays zero because it's awash in oil. Special case, that. It is Alberta I'm thinking of, isn't it?

spot;670679 wrote: Good good, minksie!

What do you pay for sewerage and water? Do you pay a local tax if you own property?

Alberta pays zero because it's awash in oil. Special case, that. It is Alberta I'm thinking of, isn't it?


you got it Alberta is the oil capital of Canada

yes we pay property tax on our homes. I can't recall the percentage there. I would have to look it up.

water, sewage, electricity, gas for myself is relatively low cause we are small consumers the kid and I, and it's all based on usage per home. On average I pay about $200 per month for those essentials. Unless like this summer it's killer hot and if the heat don't kill me the cost of electricity to run my fans will ahahahaha

Well done, this is like mainlining. Have a guess at a property tax on an average city suburban property with two bedrooms, and another with four. I don't mind if you're out by 25%, different cities are that varied anyway. I presume that property tax pays for local schools and the police, for example?

Although I live in New Zealand for part of the year, I pay no NZ Income Tax. I do pay the 12.5% GST (Goods and Service Tax), applied to EVERYTHING.

New Zealanders, in addition to the GST pay Income Tax at the following rates.

Taxable Income up to $38,000--------------- 19.5 cents on each dollar

$38,000-----$60,000 ---- 33 cents on each dollar

$60,000 & over------------- 39 cents on each dollar

It's building a pattern, Lon. Again I presume there's a local city/district tax based on property value which pays for local facilities? What would be a low and a high payment for those?

Does NZ pay a special duty on alcohol and car fuel? I recall that distilling your own is legal in NZ and tax-free for domestic consumption. I enjoy distilling, it's creative.

Oh... what's the health system paid by? Private or public insurance?

spot;670692 wrote: It's building a pattern, Lon. Again I presume there's a local city/district tax based on property value which pays for local facilities? What would be a low and a high payment for those?

Does NZ pay a special duty on alcohol and car fuel? I recall that distilling your own is legal in NZ and tax-free for domestic consumption. I enjoy distilling, it's creative.

Oh... what's the health system paid by? Private or public insurance?


The Rates on a property in the Christchurch area (South Island) that is valued at $450,000 NZD would be $2,253 NZD per annum (this would be a median valuation for a home).

I'll do some digging on the alcohol and fuel tax and see what I can find.

The health care is public with about 25% of the population supplementing with private

spot;670140 wrote: We've simplified things down to just California.

Would there by a major difference in taxation between there and, say, New Jersey or Illinois? Or are we talking about 2% or 3% of gross income. Even that's quite a lot of money when you're down to seeing what's left after just earning your wage.


(

Oregon for example has no State Sales Tax compared to it's neighbors Washington, Idaho & California. While this may seem like an advantage other Oregon taxes could well be higher, balancing things out. If it's any help, many retirees flock to states like Florida, Nevada, Oregon because of lower overall taxes.