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Ok, let's see how much I can stir the pot with this topic. I am a middle aged white male, and well..... I am just sick and tired of the prejudice.....against white men. Yeah you read it right. I think all men (and women) are created equal. It feels like you have to be in a minority any more to have rights. Now before anybody starts shouting, I do NOT have any problems with minorities. But if everyone is equal, than why are they even considered to be minorities? Why are'nt they just people?



It starts with January as Black history month. Great, no prob. Now where is German history month, or Italian, or Chinese? And why is black history only important in January? Should it not be important all year? I think that by distinguishing a month just for black history it supports division in mankind and segregates them for a whole month. And god forbid I mention a white history month.



And what about BET (Black Entertainment Television) on cable? If I was to start a White Entertainment Television channel, I'd be deemed a racist. Besides, WET just does not sound right, but you get the jist.



Here in Detroit, they have the Thanksgiving day parade, and there along all the floats and Santa and all, there is a group who call them selves the Black Horsemen. Now If I tried to start a group called the white horseman, I would be called a clansmen and racist.



Where is the equality. I never owned slaves, my parents never owned slaves, my grandparents never owned slaves, my great grandparents never did either. Now beyond that, I don't know. They are all dead. And so should the issue be.



I understand that racism was horrible and is still alive in this country.



We will never be rid of racism until we quit distinguishing one from another, until there is no more attention drawn to one particular race over another, and until we just plain let it go. Teach it, remember the crimes so as not to repeat history, but quit capitalizing on it and useing it when it is convenient.



I was not raised to see color. People are people, yet I am reminded every day that I am white. And I am proud. Should I be ashamed? If you think so, well get bent.



OK, let the remarks fly......whoooohoooo

No argument from me Bullet---------you have made some good points. Unfortunately, in this Politicaly Correct enviorment that we live in, the slightest disagreement or criticism toward those of color could label you racist by some.

Threadjack ~ ScoupeSlave, I think the forum you came from must've been the Forum of Hell or something! You keep posting things about no flame wars...Did your last forum have a lot of problems?

No one here has gotten on you personally about anything you've posted. I hope you will soon relax with us, and realize that we may disagree passionately from time to time, but most of us are not going to flame you about anything.



Ok, enough on that.



Bullet, I agree with the general ideas you've posted here. But, on thinking about it, that really doesn't mean too much. I was recently called a racist because I asked a black man if I could feel his dreadlocks. I guess it is more proper to pretend that differences do not exist. (Where is the eyeroll icon when ya need it?) By the way, the man's hair was very clean, and surprisingly soft, and more importantly, I didn't offend him in the least (so he assured me).



A lot of what's going on is ridiculous. At the same time, I still think a lot of it is necessary until more people progress beyond thinking in terms of color or race.



I hear you on the school grant thing, SS. I didn't get any grants, either. I pay for part of my tuition out of pocket, and the rest is paid for with federal loans. However, being white middle class, I also had an advantage that many poor people do not have. I was sent to good public schools for most of my education. I think the way the grants are set up is to try and rectify that as much as possible - especially with the strong links between being poor and being a minority.



I'm not saying this is the best approach. Personally, I'd like to see all federal money for education evenly distributed regardless of neighborhood or financial strength and I'd like to see it from grammar school on up. It would sure get the better class neighborhoods fighting like mad for additional funding...



The point is, some of our laws are still necessary. I truly do believe that one day it won't be necessary...I just don't think we're quite there yet.

I get the WET channel

Uh-oh, everybody is in trouble, I think Cassie and I have the same sense of humor!!

SS, you're safe now. Welcome to the garden! :-6



(PS, I only butted in because I was feeling bad that you'd need to qualify your opinions by asking us to not flame you. In my little world, you should feel perfectly safe in posting your thoughts.)

Bullet wrote: ?



It starts with January as Black history month. Great, no prob. Now where is German history month, or Italian, or Chinese? And why is black history only important in January? Should it not be important all year? I think that by distinguishing a month just for black history it supports division in mankind and segregates them for a whole month. And god forbid I mention a white history month.



And what about BET (Black Entertainment Television) on cable? If I was to start a White Entertainment Television channel, I'd be deemed a racist. Besides, WET just does not sound right, but you get the jist.



Here in Detroit, they have the Thanksgiving day parade, and there along all the floats and Santa and all, there is a group who call them selves the Black Horsemen. Now If I tried to start a group called the white horseman, I would be called a clansmen and racist.



Where is the equality. I never owned slaves, my parents never owned slaves, my grandparents never owned slaves, my great grandparents never did either. Now beyond that, I don't know. They are all dead. And so should the issue be.







We will never be rid of racism until we quit distinguishing one from another, until there is no more attention drawn to one particular race over another, and until we just plain let it go. Teach it, remember the crimes so as not to repeat history, but quit capitalizing on it and useing it when it is convenient.




Bullet: You make some GREAT points here...(one group you forgot: The Native Americans, who were here before anyone...) Yes, I am one.

How about this: African Americans want the exact same rights, liberties, freedoms etc. as the "white" people, correct? Then why, for the love of God, do they try and separate themselves in EVERY way possible??? In the way they talk, the way they dress, the way they do absolutely everything in a way that is different from caucasians? They want to call it a "culture", like they actually came from Africa. Guess what? 99% of them have never SEEN Africa, let alone have much knowledge what the culture there is like.



Here's an interesting point: A group of South African natives, now living in the U.S., wanted to call themselves or be recognized as, African Americans. They're FROM Africa, seems reasonable to me...They were told they could NOT lay claim to this term, BECAUSE THEY WERE WHITE SKINNED. So, is THAT racist? Excluding a group based on their skin color alone??? I believe that is the very definition, isn't it?



I am SOOOO glad someone brought this up...Thank You Bullet.



And here's your "eyerolling" smiley.... :yh_eyerol

P.S. I'm off to see if I can find a producer for my new movie...It's called "Black Chicks"....

:yh_rotfl

last i checked, however, black history month is february, not january.



a local news program had a spot about it a couple of years ago. they asked an older black fellow what he thought of black history month. his reply:



"black history month? yeah. february. figures - shortest month of the year."



:p

The Irish for many many years suffered from such attacks, harassment ect from the British.

yoshman wrote: Me too...why don't we have rights, and a month of our own?A month set aside for Native Americans??? *gasp*

How about the "National Association for the Alliance of Native Americans"?

Or, "The United Native College Fund"? Before anyone brings up the funding that is there for Natives for school: a) tell me the name of the fund (without looking it up, just off the top of your head), and b) this fund is set aside only for Natives who can prove their lineage. And while I agree that it should be regulated to be sure no one who isn't entitled gets the funding, I have enough Native blood in me to have gone to college for free. However, because my great-grandfather was ashamed that he was Native, he didn't record our heritage and I can't PROVE a damn thing.



Yosh, what tribe? I am Missouri Blackfoot, and Cherokee.



This entire subject just gets me riled... :yh_angry

BabyRider wrote: A month set aside for Native Americans??? *gasp*

How about the "National Alliance for the Association of Native Americans"?

Or, "The United Native College Fund"? Before anyone brings up the funding that is there for Natives for school: a) tell me the name of the fund (without looking it up, just off the top of your head), and b) this fund is set aside only for Natives who can prove their lineage. And while I agree that it should be regulated to be sure no one who isn't entitled gets the funding, I have enough Native blood in me to have gone to college for free. However, because my great-grandfather was ashamed that he was Native, he didn't record our heritage and I can't PROVE a damn thing.



Yosh, what tribe? I am Missouri Blackfoot, and Cherokee.



This entire subject just gets me riled... :yh_angry Believe it or Not, but there is a Native American - Cherokee tribe living here in County Kildare Ireland,since 1973. They have a lovely Native American Indian festival each year.

I love the festivals. I don't get to see many, and almost none from my specific tribe, but I have been to some of the local elders meetings, and one dance. They really are amazing, the costumes, the chanting, the FOOD!!!

Captain, do you go often? How about the art? Do you like that sort of thing?

*Apologies to Bullet for turning his very important topic into a Natives discussion*

Can I get help from the NAACP, National Association for the Advancement of Colored People?

I'm colored white. Excellent forum bullet.

BabyRider wrote: I love the festivals. I don't get to see many, and almost none from my specific tribe, but I have been to some of the local elders meetings, and one dance. They really are amazing, the costumes, the chanting, the FOOD!!!

Captain, do you go often? How about the art? Do you like that sort of thing?

*Apologies to Bullet for turning his very important topic into a Natives discussion* I have been only once. There are now, about 400 native american + Irish members living there. I will visit again soon.

Lakotah, huh? Well, allow me to say: Han, mish'ke :yh_hugs

Hey Scoupe...don't you know Native American when you read it??? (haha, I'm funnin' with you...) :yh_hugs

Oh my God!!! And what about the reparations that the African Americans are asking for. The only way I would even come close to agreeing with that is if we could go back in time and give reparations to the actual slaves AND pay me back for all the taxes that went to welfare recipients that did not deserve it!!! :yh_angry :-5 OK, I'm done venting.

my favourite-est saying.

RACISM COMES IN ALL SIZES, SHAPES AND COLOURS.

Made it up all by myself.

The Uk city of Bristol that made it's fortune in the slave trade recently "Apologised" for it's part in the above trade. Well I am sure that made everyone feel better.

I have seen both types of behaviour, minorities that just get on with it and those that draw attention via the PC lobby to their "Plight". Alawys members of the monities that just got on with it were accepted far more than the latter, this always assumes that they were given a decent chance in the first place, which is not always the case.

Bothwell wrote: The Uk city of Bristol that made it's fortune in the slave trade recently "Apologised" for it's part in the above trade. Well I am sure that made everyone feel better.

I have seen both types of behaviour, minorities that just get on with it and those that draw attention via the PC lobby to their "Plight". Alawys members of the monities that just got on with it were accepted far more than the latter, this always assumes that they were given a decent chance in the first place, which is not always the case. The Melting Pot by Bone M.

Bullet wrote: Oh my God!!! And what about the reparations that the African Americans are asking for. The only way I would even come close to agreeing with that is if we could go back in time and give reparations to the actual slaves AND pay me back for all the taxes that went to welfare recipients that did not deserve it!!! :yh_angry :-5 OK, I'm done venting.
Bullet, that was it? You're done? Quitter!



What do you think if we totally changed the welfare system? I swear that people who need it the most AND are most likely to actually do something with it are 1) not likely to ask unless their children are literally starving, 2) Probably working at some low paying dead-end job for somewhere between $12,000 and $25,000, and 3) Most likely to work their tails off to secure their futures - like going to school if they could get the necessary funds or day care or both.



They are also the most likely to be willing to give back to they people/system who makes this possible.



Bothwell, your post was well done, and expressed what's been hovering at the edges of my mind. Thank you.

AK, I agree. The problem is that there are SOOOO many out there who get it that are just stone-cold LAZY, not the types you describe. Imagine if all the ones who DID deserve it got it and none of the lazy leeches who are just milking the system didn't get it? Imagine how much more there would be for those TRULY in need! :yh_angry

Oh, God, you used that phrase...."Reverse discrimination"

THERE IS NO SUCH THING!!!!!!!

(Sorry to nit-pick on that one thing. It's a pet peeve of mine.)

PEIguy wrote: Oh Man...you folks just find too many topis I find interesting. How the hell am I supposed to get anything done if I constantly feel the necessity of expressing an opinion.



I too come from a minority. As an Acadian French person, I'm not accepted as French by Quebec, which is funny because the French in all parts of Canada were once considered the Canadian N***er (note, the reference is not meant as a lack of respect for any group...the N word was actually commonly used.



In Quebec, it was interesting how blatant racism was. Even though the French were in the majority, it was common to see an english person with a high school education being given an office job at an asbestos mine, when the french lad with a university education would only get a job in the mine.



If you were native in Quebec, you were discriminated against by both the english and the french.



That being said, I think its time we are all treated as equals. It is very unfortunate that when discrimination occurs, the fight for rights generally results in reverse discrimination.



I'm doubly screwed. In the 50's and 60's when I was a kid, many french families even changed their names legally, to appear more english. Many (my parents included) refused to raise their children as french speaking, or bilingual.



Now in Canada, to get the better jobs you must be Bilingual. It is very difficult for an adult to learn a new language.



In Canada, it used to be if you were a french speaking native woman, you could get any damn job you wanted...



I think it's time that we all compete on a level playing field, but some provision has to be made for certain under-represented groups. Natives, Inuit and Eskimo people have had a raw deal in Canada and we have been negotiating land deals and other programs for years...but it is taking too long. These are not all deals dating back hundreds of years. Some are fairly recent land grabs.



For example, in the 40's only male indians were recognized as status indians. During WW2, some reserves lost all the male indians to recruitment. When this happened, the Canadian government walked in and confiscated the land because there were no "Legal" Indians living on it.



I have no problem with certain organizations existing to promote ethnenticity. If we didn't have people working to promote french culture, we would have almost no french entertainment industry, The same is true of the Native entertainment which has come a long way in canada over the last 25 years.



In the US, until 30 years ago, there was virtually no representation of the black community in Television. Hell, I remember the controversy when there was a Kiss between a white and a black in Star trek, in the 60's.



Gays have also been under-represented. As recently as 10 years ago, a kiss between 2 women on Deep Space 9 was banned in parts of Canada and the US.



For these reasons, I believe interest groups serve a purpose...hell, if it wasn't for such groups, women would still be the property of their husbands and not have the vote.



Just as we vigilantly work for equal rights for all, similar efforts should be aimed at reducing reverse discrimination. COOL

BabyRider wrote: AK, I agree. The problem is that there are SOOOO many out there who get it that are just stone-cold LAZY, not the types you describe. Imagine if all the ones who DID deserve it got it and none of the lazy leeches who are just milking the system didn't get it? Imagine how much more there would be for those TRULY in need! :yh_angry
Exactly! And how the system would grow as well, when those people who were in need can finally give back. Or should I say "give opportunities to others as it was given to them"?



I saw a bumper sticker that said "60% of all welfare recipients have a full-time job." I haven't looked that up yet, but I will eventually. But, two trains of thought came from that. (I'm so easily amused, eh? Give me a bumper sticker and I'm happy for days.)



1) If they have a job and still need welfare, then they obviously need training to get better paying jobs. I'm ignoring raising the poverty level and the minimum wage for this post.



2) On the whole, Americans are not cold hearted. But we work pretty damn hard to be handing over $0.30 on every dollar. The anger comes when we can't be sure these people even need it.



3) If we could find a better system that addresses the root causes of needing welfare, if we could find a way to ensure that very few cheaters get around the system, then we'd probably feel a heck of a lot better about it.



Gimme. How I hate that word.

Gimmie a break! Gimmie some credit!!! Gimmie a second to think of what I wanted to say...

A Karenina wrote: However, being white middle class, I also had an advantage that many poor people do not have. I was sent to good public schools for most of my education. I think the way the grants are set up is to try and rectify that as much as possible - especially with the strong links between being poor and being a minority.



I'm not saying this is the best approach. Personally, I'd like to see all federal money for education evenly distributed regardless of neighborhood or financial strength and I'd like to see it from grammar school on up. It would sure get the better class neighborhoods fighting like mad for additional funding...


I understand and to a certain extent agree with what you are saying about advantages but not all poor people are minorities. If two freshmen, one white and one black, enter college with comparable grades, scores, and family incomes, which do you think will get the most money in the form of grants? Is that fair to poor whites? If a wealthy black (Hispanic, etc.) family sends a child to school, chances are they will still receive some type of grant or scholarship. Whereas, if a middle class family sends a child to college they will more than likely be up to their ears in debt. IMO grants and scholarships should be available to those who most need them regardless of race. I have three teenagers (13,14,15) that I hope will attend college but the cost will be prohibitive unless they receive some sort of financial aid other than loans. Our income bracket rules out the possibility for many grants/scholarships. It just bothers me that a family that equals mine in all ways except race can receive so much more help.

In closing I have to agree with the original poster's sentiments. By continuing to define people by race and making concessions based on race, we are feeding a monster; its name is "double-standard".

Enigma wrote: I understand and to a certain extent agree with what you are saying about advantages but not all poor people are minorities. If two freshmen, one white and one black, enter college with comparable grades, scores, and family incomes, which do you think will get the most money in the form of grants? Is that fair to poor whites? If a wealthy black (Hispanic, etc.) family sends a child to school, chances are they will still receive some type of grant or scholarship. Whereas, if a middle class family sends a child to college they will more than likely be up to their ears in debt. IMO grants and scholarships should be available to those who most need them regardless of race. I have three teenagers (13,14,15) that I hope will attend college but the cost will be prohibitive unless they receive some sort of financial aid other than loans. Our income bracket rules out the possibility for many grants/scholarships. It just bothers me that a family that equals mine in all ways except race can receive so much more help.

In closing I have to agree with the original poster's sentiments. By continuing to define people by race and making concessions based on race, we are feeding a monster; its name is "double-standard".


Someday people will stop looking at the skin and when they do things will start to go the right way( this is not saying that there aren't many that are already doing this). It took well over 200 years in American history to stop this menace and in the past 50 years it has come a long way towards defeating this ogre. Once the people put it to the test and see that it is no longer needed then everybody will start putting it where it is needed. Equitably into the educational systems throughout the land.

This topic is close to my heart. I'm bi-racial, my mother is from South America, my father is British and my kids are part Jamaican..lol so my kids just need to marry into asian and first nations cultures and I can complain about everyone!! On the upside, I think my kids will be able to go to college virtually free

But your all right, people need to take responsibility for their own situtaions and stop blaming others. I am so sick of hearing about this group and that group, we are all human!

This not only extends to race, but also into the choices we make. For example, being out of the work force and a stay at home Mom, with only a high school diploma and "Mommy experience" my choices are limited. I do not know where to begin to start a career. I contacted many agencies for a little help with direction, and got no where! Why?

Let's see, I'm not on Social Assistance, I'm not a substance abuser, I'm haven't collected Unemployment Insurance, I'm not a survivor of abuse, I own my own home, I'm too old, the list goes on and on....people actually said to me "We can't help someone like you, you don't qualify!" huh? It seems like you have to mess up before anyone will help you out or be really down on your luck, perhaps when I run out of money, lose my home, date an abuser, and start using drugs I can really get the direction I need! Anyway, I digress.

I don't that anything anyone said in this post is racist, nor can you call anyone who posted in this thread a racist, we're all just sick of the double standard, the p.c mentality. I think once aliens invade our planet we will all be closer as the human race, until then, we're screwed!

chicagolosina wrote: This topic is close to my heart. I'm bi-racial, my mother is from South America, my father is British and my kids are part Jamaican..lol so my kids just need to marry into asian and first nations cultures and I can complain about everyone!! On the upside, I think my kids will be able to go to college virtually free

But your all right, people need to take responsibility for their own situtaions and stop blaming others. I am so sick of hearing about this group and that group, we are all human!

This not only extends to race, but also into the choices we make. For example, being out of the work force and a stay at home Mom, with only a high school diploma and "Mommy experience" my choices are limited. I do not know where to begin to start a career. I contacted many agencies for a little help with direction, and got no where! Why?

Let's see, I'm not on Social Assistance, I'm not a substance abuser, I'm haven't collected Unemployment Insurance, I'm not a survivor of abuse, I own my own home, I'm too old, the list goes on and on....people actually said to me "We can't help someone like you, you don't qualify!" huh? It seems like you have to mess up before anyone will help you out or be really down on your luck, perhaps when I run out of money, lose my home, date an abuser, and start using drugs I can really get the direction I need! Anyway, I digress.

I don't that anything anyone said in this post is racist, nor can you call anyone who posted in this thread a racist, we're all just sick of the double standard, the p.c mentality. I think once aliens invade our planet we will all be closer as the human race, until then, we're screwed!


Thanks for the kind words. Now, if you could get the aliens to come now, then we'd have a lot more fun.