816 guests are online right now

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:45 pm

How about a few of you signing up today?

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:00 pm

buttercup;504524 wrote: How about a few of you signing up today?

the majority are web crawlers, simply indexing new posts here for the search engines.

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:04 pm

Oh how dull, how many guests do we have then? approx

Post by **spot** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:09 pm

"right now" is partly central to the question. It actually covers a considerable period of time. The other point is that a single crawler can count multiple times in that guest total since it can appear to the site as more than a single IP address as it traverses the hyperlinks.

eta: here's a translation of "Guest Count" into English. The number of distinct IP addresses which have accessed ForumGarden without logging in over the past period, where the period is a timeout value set in the Administrator Settings configuration panel, typically to 4 or 8 hours.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:22 pm

spot;504542 wrote: "right now" is partly central to the question. It actually covers a considerable period of time. The other point is that a single crawler can count multiple times in that guest total since it can appear to the site as more than a single IP address as it traverses the hyperlinks.

eta: here's a translation of "Guest Count" into English. The number of distinct IP addresses which have accessed ForumGarden without logging in over the past period, where the period is a timeout value set in the Administrator Settings configuration panel, typically to 4 or 8 hours.

this ignores the kernel TCP_SO_LINGER value, which - on busy webservers, which FG is - is often configured fairly low, in order to free up inactive buffers, as they can consume non-trivial amounts of memory.

most crawlers are smart enough (and indeed it's desireable from their 'point of view') to disconnect from the server well before any timeout value that would be set within the administrator control panel.

so, wrong again spot.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:25 pm

anastrophe;504572 wrote:

so, wrong again spot.

Booring!

Do we have to go through this every time someone opens an innocent thread?

Post by **spot** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:43 pm

anastrophe;504572 wrote: this ignores the kernel TCP_SO_LINGER value, which - on busy webservers, which FG is - is often configured fairly low, in order to free up inactive buffers, as they can consume non-trivial amounts of memory.

most crawlers are smart enough (and indeed it's desireable from their 'point of view') to disconnect from the server well before any timeout value that would be set within the administrator control panel.

so, wrong again spot.
You think vbulletin counts OS buffers rather than querying the database for the guest count? I don't think it goes anywhere near them. vbulletin runs just as happily on Microsoft platforms as it does on Linux boxes, why would it look at explicitly Linux parameters?

The definition of a guest in vbulletin is all records on the session table with a userid of zero.

A session is opened when a browser connects to the server without a current session cookie. To that extent it's those which are counted rather than discrete IP addresses. I've written it either way in the past depending on the context but I think that's what vbulletin adopted.

The session can then be logged in, in which case the userid becomes non-zero and the session switches out of the Guest column into the Member column.

Sessions close and the session cookie invalidates (depending on implementation) when a logout happens. Failing that (which applies to all guests) the only vbulletin database recognition that a session has terminated is through timeout. There's absolutely no provision at all inside vbulletin for a simple TCP/IP exchange, as opposed to an explicit logout, to affect a session close within the database. The Guest count is derived from the vbulletin database and has nothing to do the host operating system internals.

What gnawing worm in your entrail is forcing you to fight over this? You got tired of "debating" with Novelty after all that time?

Uncle Kram · Post by **Uncle Kram** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:48 pm

I'm clever too. I can count to over 100....if my Mom prompts me on the big numbers that is

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:56 pm

spot;504588 wrote: You think vbulletin counts OS buffers rather than querying the database for the guest count? I don't think it goes anywhere near them. vbulletin runs just as happily on Microsoft platforms as it does on Linux boxes, why would it look at explicitly Linux parameters?

more evidence that you've not the slightest clue what you're talking about. TCP_SO_LINGER, along with virtually all other kernel TCP options, are just as much a part of microsoft platforms as "linux" (unix) platforms. or are we to understand that you are not aware that the microsoft (NT and variants) TCP stack was built almost entirely from the FreeBSD TCP stack?

The definition of a guest in vbulletin is all records on the session table with a userid of zero.

A session is opened when a browser connects to the server without a current session cookie. To that extent it's those which are counted rather than discrete IP addresses. I've written it either way in the past depending on the context but I think that's what vbulletin adopted.

The session can then be logged in, in which case the userid becomes non-zero and the session switches out of the Guest column into the Member column.

Sessions close and the session cookie invalidates (depending on implementation) when a logout happens. Failing that (which applies to all guests) the only vbulletin database recognition that a session has terminated is through timeout. There's absolutely no provision at all inside vbulletin for a simple TCP/IP exchange, as opposed to an explicit logout, to affect a session close within the database. The Guest count is derived from the vbulletin database and has nothing to do the host operating system internals.

sigh. and how, dear boy, do you surmise that the timeout determines that the session has been idle? how do you surmise that the timer determines whether the session is active, if not by determining whether the connection is established? there may not be a *direct* mechanism within vbulletin for polling the TCP status, but make no mistake, there could be no timer/timeout without at minimum an indirect mechanism for doing so. a session becomes idle when no traffic is passing. traffic. you know, packets. TCP/IP datagrams.

duh.

What gnawing worm in your entrail is forcing you to fight over this? You got tired of "debating" with Novelty after all that time?

setting aside your colourful words, this is merely another distraction. if you'd perhaps take it in mind to stop presenting yourself as knowing things which you do not know (i.e. how many guest connections at any given time are real humans or crawlers), then perhaps these unpleasant interludes could be minimized.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:57 pm

Bryn Mawr;504576 wrote: Booring!

Do we have to go through this every time someone opens an innocent thread?

no, we certainly don't. spot could merely refrain from trampling his leaden foot all over the garden.

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:08 pm

So less than 100 then :-3

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:16 pm

anastrophe;504602 wrote: no, we certainly don't. spot could merely refrain from trampling his leaden foot all over the garden.

Maybe you could stop trying to get the last word in?

There's two of you playing this silly game so why "he's got to give up"?

Grow up and try to behave like an adult

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:18 pm

or one of them could answer the op's question

Post by **spot** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:24 pm

Ah. A new meaning of the word "innocent" that I hadn't met before.

Don't delete the post, Clancy, or someone might resurrect it and post it repeatedly.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:27 pm

Bryn Mawr;504620 wrote: Maybe you could stop trying to get the last word in?

There's two of you playing this silly game so why "he's got to give up"?

Grow up and try to behave like an adult

you've actually added nothing of any substance to the thread, bryn mawr. nothing at all. spot's been spouting a lot of silly nonsense, and i've countered it with - shriek! - actual facts. your posts have been metacomments that have zilch to do with the thread - besides posing personal attacks.

care to think again before looking down your nose?

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:29 pm

Anyone care to take a bet on which page the origional question gets answered?

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:33 pm

buttercup;504637 wrote: Anyone care to take a bet on which page the origional question gets answered?

well - the original question was rhetorical, as 'guest' can't really reply. as to how many of 'guest' are actual human beings, it's a fairly tedious task to go through the current connections to count them up, and i'd hazard tombstone has far more weighty matters to dwell on, such as "i wonder if i should get a haircut" or "has the mail arrived?".

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:35 pm

I admit I too often wonder why we have 6,000 members and about what, 70 posters? By the way whatever happened to Issie??

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:35 pm

anastrophe;504648 wrote: well - the original question was rhetorical, as 'guest' can't really reply. as to how many of 'guest' are actual human beings, it's a fairly tedious task to go through the current connections to count them up, and i'd hazard tombstone has far more weighty matters to dwell on, such as "i wonder if i should get a haircut" or "has the mail arrived?".

I did say approx & thought you may have had a rough idea, do you?

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:38 pm

spot;504633 wrote: Ah. A new meaning of the word "innocent" that I hadn't met before.

Don't delete the post, Clancy, or someone might resurrect it and post it repeatedly.

Well he at least has to go for third time lucky Spot :rolleyes:

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:48 pm

Thanks Kieth i did notice your other post, easy to get the two threads confused tonight :yh_giggle

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:52 pm

anastrophe;504635 wrote: you've actually added nothing of any substance to the thread, bryn mawr. nothing at all. spot's been spouting a lot of silly nonsense, and i've countered it with - shriek! - actual facts. your posts have been metacomments that have zilch to do with the thread - besides posing personal attacks.

care to think again before looking down your nose?

No I wouldn't - I repeat my original statement it's booring.

In the current environment there is no justification for it unless you are deliberately trying to cause trouble.

If you are then a pox on you Sir. If not then I again suggest that you drop it.

and do you really consider that telling the pair of you to grow up is a personal attack? If I was into making personnal attacks I'd make a damned sight better job of it than that!

Uncle Kram · Post by **Uncle Kram** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:56 pm

buttercup;504637 wrote: Anyone care to take a bet on which page the origional question gets answered?

I might be up to 110 by then Cups

Post by **spot** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:02 pm

Bryn Mawr;504672 wrote: No I wouldn't - I repeat my original statement it's booring.It's a difference of viewpoint I've encountered before. Depending on background, a system is either regarded as defined by its code or by its operational parameters. I'm looking at a timeout as consisting of "show me all records on the session table which were last updated more than X seconds ago" followed by "delete those records", he's looking at parameter files to fine-tune... well, whatever operators fine-tune, it's a long time since I last ran a shift. My emphasis on the database content reflects my background. Paul's doesn't strike me as a series of logical constructs with any basis but somewhere in his wooly head I'm sure it makes perfect sense to him. One of us builds them, the other runs them. Each viewpoint allows the holder to function in his own environment.

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:06 pm

But it still doesent answer the bloody question :wah:

Post by **spot** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:08 pm

buttercup;504684 wrote: But it still doesent answer the bloody question :wah:The original question's being answered as we speak by newbies registering and posting Intro threads.

There's nothing visible on the board as it's configured that distinguishes the humans from the automata in the Guest count.

Uncle Kram · Post by **Uncle Kram** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:09 pm

buttercup;504684 wrote: But it still doesent answer the bloody question :wah:
Sorry, what was the question again? :-3

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:10 pm

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggg :-5 just gimmie an approx, humour me man, if your 35 people out, dont matter

Post by **spot** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:10 pm

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 8 (7 members and 1 guests)

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:10 pm

Uncle Kram;504690 wrote: Sorry, what was the question again? :-3

:yh_rotfl

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:13 pm

spot;504694 wrote: Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 8 (7 members and 1 guests)

Tombstone where are you? Spots trying to make me mental.

Ever considered politics Spot?

Post by **spot** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:17 pm

buttercup;504698 wrote: Tombstone where are you? Spots trying to make me mental.

Ever considered politics Spot?
That wasn't at you, buttercup, that was showing Paul a flowing non-controversial thread to compare to the "Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 8 (2 members and 8 guests)" he picked up on earlier today in one of topical interest to non-members.

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:20 pm

Keith W;504707 wrote: From a friends signature line.....

"Politicians are like diapers; they should be changed frequently and for the same reasons. "

I was suggesting he wasent answering the question, not full of ****, im very fond of Spot even tho i could happily strangle him tonight :wah:

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:26 pm

spot;504705 wrote: That wasn't at you, buttercup, that was showing Paul a flowing non-controversial thread to compare to the "Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 8 (2 members and 8 guests)" he picked up on earlier today in one of topical interest to non-members.

how do you manage your heating bill, spot? i would imagine it's enormous, as any room you walk into has all the warmth sucked out of it.

i'd speculate that about three out of four guests are crawlers.

Post by **spot** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:38 pm

anastrophe;504715 wrote: how do you manage your heating bill, spot? i would imagine it's enormous, as any room you walk into has all the warmth sucked out of it.Is there nothing on the television tonight?

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:50 pm

spot;504737 wrote: Is there nothing on the television tonight?

are there no stray kittens around for you to set on fire?

Post by **spot** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:52 pm

buttercup;504709 wrote: I was suggesting he wasent answering the question, not full of ****, im very fond of Spot even tho i could happily strangle him tonight :wah:

There's around a thousand non-member humans a day[1] follow offsite links into a ForumGarden thread, most of which will be old material. Of those, some will browse to other pages here. A few of them (call it twenty) register. Some who register post. A couple a week might be spammers. Courtesy dictates that none of them are trolls.

[1]eta: call that two thousand tops, on reflection.

Post by **spot** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:57 pm

anastrophe;504751 wrote: are there no stray kittens around for you to set on fire?

I never incendiarize living cats.

You watch too much television.

They shudder whenever our paths cross.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:00 pm

spot;504756 wrote: I never incendiarize living cats.

so puppies it is, then.

You watch too much television.

how did you know the penguin was going to blow up?

They shudder whenever our paths cross.

people with hearts?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:17 pm

Clancy;504748 wrote: I think that's fair comment. But I also think it goes much deeper than you care to mention, or might even be aware of.

Taking another comment from above ....and leaving the FG owners haircuts to match his sartorial elegance and e-mails aside, what I find strange is, how every member in this forum from the U.S. has tolerated an anti-American stance from certain members, and from every possible angle. I'll never understand that one Possibly many of them might still be wide eyed impressed with grammatical skill, and actually miss, or overlook continual carefully crafted insulting remarks for genuine benign comment.

It shouldn't be too difficult to undertand why,after many , many, months anastrophe chalenges certain statements from posters (Spot in particular) on other topics where he may think there is deliberate alterior motive/agenda.....whatever the topic. It's actually easier to say , Spot has many of you hoodwinked ....it's even quicker to say he's tried to cause as much trouble in here as any other member , past or present

With, Spot, plain speaking usually leaves the bulding ......as theatre managers would say on Elvis's exit.

....anyway, The Whistle Test Years is on Chan, 9 (U.K.) but it's not as good as the selection on dvd....hang on, Steppenwolf , their doing a good job of, Born To Be Wild :guitarist

If this is about anti-american postings then raise it in anti-american threads - not all over the board.

As a side issue, critisizing the US Administration for its foreign policy is not being anti-american and "certain members" could easily take exception at the suggestion that it is.

and if you "don't much care what you think, much less what you have to say either" then you'll find the feeling's becoming mutual. Your outburst did you no credit whatsoever.

Saffron · Post by **Saffron** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:48 pm

OMG, OMG, another fight.:-3